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  1. I understand that the thread is 10 pages long, and the reason I made the comment regarding your disrespectful tone was solely based around the notion that you are treating the original post as the grounds of what started this. As mentioned before this was posted in the question sub forum, and as such my question was answered, so to expand on that answer I asked would it be okay if I had a character that was unsophisticated, came from a rural and modest upbringing. Where his experience and knowledge of the world came from the people that inhabited his community. So I asked, as such would it be wrong for said character to use stereotypes and or cringe at cultures he does not understand. That is when this became about situations and thus moved from being a question to a discussion. For racially / other prejudice fueled conflicts to come about some characters have to created around that fact. Now from a technical standpoint it is not 100% necessary to toss in slurs, or in fact use them. Reason I tossed in slurs is to protect those that solely RP via voice, an element I fully do not understand, but being as it is voice I figured given the situations I am trying to get approved things may be said in the heat of the moment. In my case due to being deaf, I will RP solely via text, and as such I could show my disdain, fear, ignorance, perceived superiority etc... with the use of text. *Cringes at the sight the colored person, as he walks closer, slowly moving his hand over his side arm.* With a stern tone shouts; *Stay back, I do not want anything to do with your "kind"* Far from perfect, quite horrible but that is just a brief example. DayZRP allows the use of voice, slurs are bound to come out if such an encounter. "Wha t you want nigger?" While rude and crass it does show the lack of respect for the culture and people. We are trying to foster different conflicts, would it result in more hostile RP? Sure, but is that a bad thing? Conflict is fun. This is not about conflict, conflict is once again a byproduct of the trying to get such situations approved. Though in reality like anything good can be done with this, like I said I personally enjoy playing characters that start off ignorant about something or anything, be it cultures , firearms , social ventures and have them grow as character breaking down the wall of ignorance through interactions with other players. "We employ a zero tolerance policy towards those who engage in racist, sexual or otherwise abusive role play." It is the abusive part I have a problem with, because I do not see this as abusive, as I do not see torture as abusive, I just view it as another potential situation that my character may have to overcome. All-in-all, you are arguing a point that I do not disagree with, sociability has rules, racial slurs do not add anything in IRL, they are pointless and create unwanted conflicts. This is not about society, trust me I get your points, but you can word it however you want, but it still boils down to it is bad, that is why. Because you are right racial slurs by themselves, without context nor reason are bad. The question may have came about due to slurs, but soon moved past it, because I noticed people tend to grasp onto that one aspect, slurs, and not looking at the whole. Slurs do not add anything to RP, but... the situations that may cause the use of slurs to come about does add to the RP. Racial / prejudice fueled conflicts while pointless in reality, can be entertaining in a video game, story telling, television. Granted, I understand that due to the realism DayZRP offers it may offend people, and it boils down to showing respect to the player, and for me showing respect towards the player is stopping if they request me to stop. That is how I show my respect towards the player. So before I make the poll, I really would like your feedback leaving society, rules, negative bias out of this for a moment, and discussion the situations we are trying to get approved. What is the real reason we have to limit conflicts / development that are fueled by prejudice? For a moment look past the slurs, they are a byproduct of the situation as a whole. Once again, I did not think you were being aggressive or disrespectful because you pointed out my flaws, I said that because you did not take the time to see that the thread itself moved past slurs, when it moved to general forums. Just a pain because everyone keeps falling back onto the slur part, ignoring the part were we are trying to get the reasoning behind why conflicts / development that are fueled by prejudice are not allowed. Also, you mentioned before you tried to allow this, did you really try it so if people made a request OOC to avoid the situation / and refrain from using language that would foster that situation in RP they were directly involved with? Did players really ignore these requests? In short man, I would love to do a poll, would be nice to have both sides presented before the poll is made, the intent was always to have a poll made, but before that we have been trying to get a GM add their two cents as to why the rule is that way. Your whole counter is we have rules for a reason, things are fine, we have a middle ground, nothing is broken, these rules have stood the test of time. This is all true, I just the get the feeling you are still caught up on the slurs, since you never addressed what would be wrong with the situations that were posed by varies people in the thread. At the core what is wrong with those conflicts, or character arch be interesting. Also, not sure about Martin, but when I bring up genre and medium I am not here saying I will make a thought provoking piece of art, in truth most of the value will come from the encounter itself. I am not looking rid the world of hate through my RP, but the same reason why people create characters that far reach outside their own comfort zone, the unknown can be proved to be most enjoyable. Reason the movie, actor example was even brought up because the the core leaving the moral message aside. It is not fair to make personal judgments about someone because they want to play a certain character, while I am not saying you did, but others in the thread have made that statement. So leaving all that aside, what would be wrong with having a character their current view point of the world was solely influenced by stereotypes due to their upbringing, and with time due to character interaction with the varies cultures and groups begins to break fear of those stereotypes? Now here is the problem, personally I am not a fan of pick and choose options, and I have very little experience with the negative side, in other forms of RP based around say Star Trek, so that is why I lump the negative in together with it. Because if done right it can be interesting, just like anything. I think that is where the fear comes from. The fear of it being done poorly, which is valid, and because of that fear it prevents people from seeing past it because it is a very real fear. If you kindly address the situation and not the slur leaving aside the rules and just looking at through a lens you would good or bad rp. What is really wrong with the situation I brought up? Since we are unable to get a GM repose I will use yours in the poll thread since that was always the intent once we got a GM ruling on it we could make a poll thread with both sides exampled. Let us leave soicity, slurs in themselves out of this, remember slurs are just a byproduct of the situation, not the core. The core has always been racially and prejudice based conflicts and development, in itself is that a bad thing? How do you think it would negatively effect DayZRP, outside of the maturity of some members, do you think it would add a new element of RP to the server, that could be viable and enjoyable if done right.
  2. Let go of the slurs for a moment, and look it from from a character concept (eg flow, trait) then shape that into a situation. It is all about depth, and usage. No one is asking to toss around slurs as if they were candy at a children's birthday party. Say you have a character that is unsophisticated, comes from a rural town with a population of 700. Everything they know, their outlook of the world came about from that little town. Their perspective of the outside world is defined and reinforced by those around them, and what they happened to see on TV. Due to this have very stereotypical view of the world, and as such is extremely ignorant of varies cultures, they go based off certain cliches they viewed while watching television. May I ask would it be wrong for them to view another in a stereotypical fashion? It is just not about the slurs, slurs will limited use just happen to speed up and help get to the point the the character in question does not like another character or understand them due to their culture. This very situation is what moved this into a discussion. Since use of stereotypes means that because looked foreign he makes the assumption he does not speak English as such begins to speak in a slower fashion thus technically one could view that is insulting. Which is true, and people did not agree with that, but being the nature of the RP, one needs tangled actions to role play off. The prejudice part just comes into play because I also enjoy a lot of fantasy and science fiction based RP. I enjoy WoD, Star Trek RP, Star Wars RP. That it is just part of the norm given the type of lore that has been established, exiting feuds between species, clans, houses. I understand that due to being fiction vs non fiction to a certain extent where it might be hard for some to tell the difference. For me it is just another realm of RP with different characters. I do see where you guys are coming from in terms of empathy/courtesy/decency. I agree that is a fine line that can be easily abused, but for some reason people are grasping slur part, that was already covered when this thread was in the question sub form, it transformed into a discussion about situations, and in certain situation slurs, negative comments, insults whatever just because an extension of the situation. Is it necessary in all situations, no, but some it adds that extra sense of conflict and really drives the nail home. It is all about reasonable use. In my mind this is how I see it. Group A dislikes purple skin hairy bald people, and they happen to see Group B that is solely comprised of purple skin hairy bald people. A feud breaks out between the two of them, that is not based around hero / bandit, it is a petty feud about something as dumb as skin color. It seems small, but it is a new type of feud, and you can have it so players on both side find this feud to be petty and branch out creating their own group etc... End of them day though I do not see the difference between that black white, Chinese, Japanese. To me it is not real, so it is hard for me feel empathy for something that I do not view as real, it is honestly just another story in the making to me. Can it be done without slurs or negative comments? However, does the occasional use of a slur reinforce the lack of respect for said group? It does, it is means of not giving the value. I understand where you are coming from, but look at it from my side to. I am Deaf, so avoiding slurs and negative comments while still showing a dislike and lack of respect, or maintaining a certain level of ignorance towards a culture or group of people is easy, since in theory I get more time to react and process the info. Those that go purely based around, I could see how given you can say whatever just pops into your head without second thought if things heated up some offensive things may come out. So tossing in slurs is honestly just a means of protecting those that let things split in the heat of the moment. Like you see a black character rob your bike, and you say nigger stole my bike. When voice us a factor I am sure things can get dicey in heated moments. If it is was simple we would not have a problem, some admins, say none, other some. The ones that say none I get the feeling they feel as if it want to roam around DayZRP hating everyone, using it as means of getting KOS rights or something. I wish it was that simple. Things you do while you wait for that bell to ring. Would love to, but sadly he is grasping on the topic when it was in the question sub forum, by going on about that it is just about slurs, when in reality it transformed past slurs more so into situations, slurs then became a subset of that. Since he kind of avoided that point all together, makes it harder for us argue his points, being as we already agree with that racism is bad, slurs without context and meaning are bad, that society and rules do not approve of it. Maybe I should have made a new thread once that question was answered and the discussion began, but before I could do that it was already moved to the general, so I went with it. I agree with his points, but that is not what is is about anymore you guys are focusing on the slur, we are focusing on the situation.
  3. Really... all that can be summed up into it is bad. Come on, stop grasping at society, it is online community that allows the use other hot topic issues that following the core of the rule in question go against. You are making it seem like we are asking for a blanket wide approval of everything. It is all about how it is handled. All you wrote was, we have rules in place, that is why follow them. Not sure how long you have been following the thread, but the OP, was posted in the question section, and I got the answer to said question, but it turned into a discussion, then found it's way over here. So before you join a discussion may want to read the whole thing. It is not solely about racial slurs anymore. It became a discussion about why, and how was the divided established. You are grasping onto this whole slur thing and missing the point, that was made by other not just myself or Martin. You do not have to limit something out of fear, Granted, the value is subjective, but hell even this rule is subjective. You may not see the value, but others do, others would like to portray characters in a different light that is glazed with a sense of realism. You can belittle our efforts and reasoning, and going based off your red text claim you as community tried everything, and that is a simple matter of right or wrong, but like the rule itself you glossed over every point. Role playing for many is a means of expression, be it in written or vocal form. It is about telling a story, and like any story, characters tend to be multilayered, come in varying flavors if you will. Boils down to taste, if you do not like the taste of someones RP, either excuse yourself or kindly ask said person to hold that spice so to speak. You may not have faith in the community, but I do, and I do think most would stop, and if they do just make a report, and make it so the request to stop has to be made in text so chat logs can be found and issue solved. Writing is an escape, as if Role play, you can tell me about society and how it works, but here is the kicker, no matter how much you want to try internet and writing culture do not always adhere to the same norms we find yourselves following in our everyday lives. Role play / writing / story telling allow us to experiment with different types of personalities, traits, situations that normally unless we have an exceeding amount of expendable wealth really would not be within our means. Why limit that creative strive, solely out of fear. Why as writers, story tellers should we fear words or situations? As humans we have our own limiter it is call common sense, and I have faith the community has the ability to utilize it and police itself. Maybe you have become so jaded with the fact you have been here so long, but going based off this thread alone, only a handful of people have been slightly disrespectful, that is shocking given the nature of the topic, and oddly enough those that were being slightly disrespectful are long standing members... go figure. So while we can create terms, still does not solve the situation regarding the issue itself and the RP it can create, while a different type of RP, and certainly not for everyone, just like torture RP is not for everyone, that certainly does not limit the viable or effectiveness of such RP. Simple fix would be the one someone else brought up, sorry I forgot your name, just make it so if players do are not conformable with the terms and situation presented during the RP, they can kindly ask OOC if they could refrain from use comments. Has that been tried? So once again you pretty much wrote words that equal out the same meaning as racism is bad, and it is not allowed because the rule say so. Tone the attitude down, if you do not agree with the topic that is being discussed, and cannot be bothered to read the whole thread before making your comments, don't. You can always try again to come up with a reason that is not based around it is bad. Nek, said it best around page 2 or 3, we are not questioning the rules because we do not like DayZRP, or are questioning them because we want to make it better. No one here is saying that we should allow people to say nigger every other word. That is where common sense comes in, but I see nothing wrong with something disrespect for a character because they are Japanese, and no other reason. Or having a character that is from a rural setting and does not know anything about the outside world expect the from stories they were told, or television. Thus they may have an extremely stereotypical view point of different cultures. While small, for me I find these interesting since I means I get to watch my character evolve due to closer interactions with different cultures. Dislike for the Japanese culture can morph into deep sense of admiration and pride. Or taking part in breaking said barriers created out of ignorance of the world and cultures. Through encounters of the different cultures roaming around. It is no longer about hero / bandit / civ. The RP becomes about personal interaction or better or worse depending. Though I cannot stop you if you want to go based off the OP that was answered posted in the question thread which was already answered by turned into a discussion then moved here, I am not going to stop you, but I kindly as you handle yourself in a respectable manner, and do not belittle the people within the thread. Object to the points and arguments, but no need to come off with such a harsh tone or call it a waste of time. If you are going to come off with some a tone, do it after you addressed the point, all you did was like said everyone else has, created an answer that is built around the foundation that it is wrong. Society wise yeah it is wrong, but when it comes to story telling, sometimes wrong is interesting if done right. Look at how clans handle torture and slavery, those are wrong, but if done right guess what people find them enjoyable. Give it chance, stop grasping onto the negative you may enjoy a new conflict or may enjoy watching a character break away from stereotypes due to player interaction. So you are telling me that you guys have tried the method where you allowed certain situations and comments based around prejudice and if players did not feel comfortable with it all they had to do was kindly ask the party to stop. That did not work? If that is case, you guys are right be as jaded as you are, because that is just disheartening that even when asked kindly majority of the player base outright ignored the request. Though doing a poll on a topic that clearly has people so rooted in the past will not go well. Because people tend to grasp on the negative. The augment is not flawed per-se, I just gave humanity far too much credit, I got my hopes up when I saw that people were able to see the value it may have, and that it is not all negative. Though I do get the feeling both of you tend to think we want free reign, RP hanging people, burning people at the stake. We have never went that far... not even close to that. At the very least I know some see the value of it, and once again I thank those that posed arguments that were respectful and tried to look at it from both sides. Nothing will change, since you will not change my mind, nor will I change yours. You are already invested in your side, I see the value of your side, while you may not see mine. I really hope one day someone will come out with a reason that is not based around it is bad, or that people are too immature to handle it properly. I just hope you do not think we are asking for free reign to do whatever the hell we want. May seem strange but we are asking to not be limited in flaws to establish for our characters, while being able to react to situations based around those flaws. For some reason I get the vibe you think we are feel it is okay to go up to a person on the street and call them a towel head, or blame a whole group of people or culture for an act of terrorism. Way we see it as a means of allowing someone create a movie about slavery, or tell a story where characters are prejudice. As I said before I cannot stop you from making you grasping onto the negative. Sure it might be idealistic of me to not have a fear of words, and not view words as having a side. To be like guns it really boils down to how you use them.
  4. "Makes you think where the player learned that kind of thing from doesn't it?" A statement similar to this started this snowball effect. While, I am not saying you personally, but a statement like this implies that RP statements are a pure reflection of ourselves. That is not true, the character is the character, the person behind the keyboard is either the actor or writer depending on how you want to look it. Statement such as thing is making the assumption that fosters the illusion the the player bares ill-will towards the religion and everything that is associated with it. So the all those negative feelings that are being brought up are based around assumption? That is sort of messed up. Personally I understand where you are coming from, but I cannot see it as a valid remark due to the fact the negative feels that the person is feeling are based around an assumption, and thus are simply an illusion. The person is making a judgment call about me due to an assumption, instead of going based off the RP at hand. Even then it should not even get this point since we have already offered up a viable solution that offends no one. We have chat logs, if you encounter someone that is using terms that offend you, kindly ask them to stop if you are directly involved with the RP at hand, and if they do not report them. Make sure to put that it must be done via text, and not voice so proof can be found. Though to answer your questions, it boils down to just acting, or writing about a situation you have experience with. Using past experiences to fuel a character so to speak is not that uncommon, our experience be it from what we have been told, seen, or personal went through shape us a people, and in term can trickle into our character, be it on command or subconsciously. Even so just because people have a hard time telling the difference, does not give them the right to pass judgment on me as a person due assumptions that they formed based around my RP, that is fostering OOC hate, not the statement, the person that bases their judgment of a person due to that statement is causing the OOC hate, and in terms they are not respecting me as a person. That is the issue, it is not a two way street, the respect is only one sided. As I said in the OP this really just boils down to devils advocate, I see both sides, but the arguments presented from your side of the fence--I am not making an attack on you since you are one of the three that addressed by posted directly so thank you for that-- are really in reality based around a one sided form of respect and understanding, and that is what bothers me most. You see the problem here? Because someone is unable to keep their assumption in check, and in turn not respect the player who made the statement, as a person. Boils down to a fear of words, and we should never be afraid of words, since words are unbias by nature, it all depends on how the person uses them. That is why I mentioned it comes to down to how it is handled. Should someone feel offended by someones horrible accent, that borders on being stereo-typically offensive? Personally, I do not think so, since for me it all boils down to how it is handled. If handled with respect and care and the RP was interesting, I say let it be. What is really stopping us from doing the same regarding other topics? Also it is not the just vocabulary, it is all the general idea and concepts, which seems strange given the wide array of hot topic issues DayZRP allows.
  5. Granted, it may trigger something real, that is to be expected, channel that realism into your character, express it via your character, in short... role play it out. You are right in the outside world, yes racism is not tolerated, but DayZRP as a medium is a place of story telling, and in that medium prejudices are methods one can use to define a character, you know a character trait / flaw / shortcoming. Having traits / flaws / shortcomings that cannot be acted and cannot be developed for better or worse are pointless. Personally, I enjoy this aspect, since I have always enjoyed reading / following characters that develop past their prejudices due to the experiences they encounter throughout a journey. Sure it is corny, but watching a character go from being disinterested in someone due to their culture, race, species, gender, sexual orientation etc... to becoming that persons best friend or just walking away with a better understanding of said culture, race, specie etc... is enjoyable for me. As gamers we are exposed to this a lot, Mass effect, killzone, infamous, dragon age, elder scrolls. Just because we are role playing in a time that is is vested in reality, does not mean that we should allow the actions of our characters and other characters have such an effect that it questions your worth as a person behind the keyboard. We are not saying do not get vested into your character, but do not allow actions IG dictate how you think someone is OG. Use the emotions and fuel your RP with it, allow your character to react to what you are feeling, but do not assume that the person behind the keyboard bares any ill-will towards you. Really just boils down to why certain things are allowed and others are not if it really comes to down protecting players and being respectful as to not offend them. What if I was offended by horrible accent, felt as if someone mocking my culture and language? Would you be on my side if I were to make that claim? Or would you belittle my claim, taking the side of the person? In short I get the why, but still have yet to get that clarification as to how things get picked out, as valid reasons to be offended or not. Once we get that, I will stop. Just please do not provide me a reason that is built on the foundation that is it bad. It snowballed because people started to make judgment calls that RP comments are a reflection of the player behind the keyboard. Pretty much if you are going to limit something provide a sensible reason that is not built around it is simply bad. Hell you are a gundam, you should know the value it can play in story telling, and how it can be used to development characters. We are talking about a tool used to create characters and situations that differ from bandit / hero. In short, if you are going to ban certain things do to X, if Y can result in X, Y should also be banned, that is not going to happen, so the next best thing, a detailed reason that covers all the points brought up by everyone in the thread that is for the respectable and limited use of statements or traits that are rooted due to prejudices is not acceptable, but other forms of behavior or ideas that run the same risk of being offensive are. We will leave it that, so let us end this, give us a reason that is not built around it is bad. Maybe it just bothers me when people beat around the bush, when in reality the reason behind it is not simple as they may think it is. In short just trying to prove it is a lot harder to come up with a reason, that is not rooted around it is bad.
  6. This is from Chris, part of the staff; "...community members are more important than the game that we play here. It's not right that you can make someone feel bad about themselves and their skin color, race, or cultural background, just so you can "play your character". Also, let us look at the rule; "This rule includes but is not limited to actions like griefing, trolling, spamming, advertising, insulting others, being racist or otherwise unpleasant to fellow players." Looking at these two statements, how does one go about drawing the line? Who is to say what subject offers a valid reason for personally feeling insulted and or offended? Going based the rule in hand, and the statement Chris provided, things such a clan concepts, stereotypical behavior / accents can offend someone. To be honestly, no one has yet to even provide a counter against my point. This far expands past racial slurs, this encompass any negative bias. What is really bothering me is how people are just holding on to the idea of a racial slur and ignoring every point I made, only one person that is against this has made a direct comment towards my points, which still resulted in a wishy-washy answer, but nevertheless they did try to address my points. Everyone else is jumping on the bandwagon as, it is simply not aloud, we already know it is not aloud, what we are asking for is clarification, quoting the rules, and grasping on top the notion that racism is bad, does not clarity anything, just brings up more questions. So since we are here, please address the following points, to the best of your ability. Remember this has evolved far past racial slurs, now we are encompassing any prejudice or derogatory comment, statement, turn of phrase, anything that has a negative connotation that has the potential to offend, belittle, insult, and or make someone feel bad about themselves as a person--not the character. Now I understand the why people use stereotypical and horrible accents that for some may border on offensive, or create clans that are based around a certain culture and due to that culture some members may feel the need to embody their character with traits that they believe to be part of norm for said culture, which may result is stereotypical behavior, which once again could be viewed as offensive to some. I see the value of such actions when it comes to immersion. Nevertheless, such actions following the rule set and the statement provided by Chris, do run the risk of being insulting and or making someone feel for being who they are. Now the question is, are said clans and or players mocking the culture? I would not say that, personally I would say they are handling the themes of the cultures in question with the utmost respect. Respect is the keyword here, no malicious intent was ever intended when said clans or characters were created, on the contrary I do think most were created as a means of showing respect for the culture. So intent, context, and execution all factor in when it comes to judging an action. So why not just do that, look at both. Hold every aspect under the same contextual lens and allow the community / players involved with the RP decide if it is respectable. An outright ban solely rooted in fear, is not the answer. If someone can provide me with a reason that is not built on the foundation that racism is bad as to why any all forms of prejudice or derogatory comments, statements, and turn of phrases are banned from the server, I will gladly end my crusade. If not why not just allow the role play to speak for itself? The community is strong, it has the ability to police itself and quill out the bad seeds, and educate those willing to learn. Way I see it is, if someone made a thread bashing the community making judgments about players due to their horrible accents or clan ideas, because they feel it insults their culture, what would the community do? Bash said person, I highly doubt it, pretty sure those in question would do everything in their power to allow their RP to speak for their actions, because when you handle sensitive issues with respect no matter the context or tone, be it serious or comedic, it will always show. We allow torture, slavery, and stereotypical portrayal of cultures just to name a few. Each from what I can see are handled with respect and despite their potential risk to be offensive, demonizing, demeaning, and or insulting. Due to how they are handled in a respectable fashion no one really has have any reason to complain. Due to the intent, context, and execution. They are used as creative devices to promote character development. Other negative aspect can do the same. Have faith in the community stop grasping onto the negative stigma these words, statements, phrases bare. Do not judge the word, just the player and how they use said words. Give it a chance, just like anything, if done right it can be awesome, if done poorly it can be painful and uncomfortable. Everything lays on the player, to make sure the intent, context, and execution are done with the utmost respect for all parties involved, and if it does not please you, do not run to report, just kindly ask the person to refrain from such actions and or statements. Like I said before, most people would stop, if not report them like you would any other rule break.
  7. Why should we have to make things up, when clans and players alike are running around with concepts or behavior that go against the very reason Chris brought up for no slurs or derogatory comments. Also dogpig has been a made up word since around 2007, which has been used to define a women with below average body, and shitty personality. Stereotypical accents, behavior, parody clans, or clans with names rooted in reality all can lead to someone feeling bad for for being who they are. Who makes the choice as to what is okay and what is not okay? Should we belittle those that are offended by the above or should we make it fair for everyone, by either out right banning all forms of it, and truly enforce an objective zero tolerance policy, or just allow the community to police such behavior, and if someone is "directly involved" with the current RP and does not enjoy the limited use of slurs or other derogatory comments simply make same OOC comment requesting the person to stop. BAM, if the person does not stop report them, and let the community handle it, if they do no harm foul. As it stands even an onlooker or those involved can report such an action even though they did not even bother to request the person to stop. Which personally is silly.
  8. Not sure how accurate this thread is; http://www.dayzrp.com/t-how-many-ira-are-irish?highlight=IRA but according to that, only a few of IRA members were Irish, but you had accent coaches. Even then, some in the thread pointed out how bad some of the accents were, but enjoyed them for the charm they offered. Bad accents do have a charm. Leaving that aside you are missing the point I think he is trying to make. While, I am not him the point I do think he is trying to get across is that the IRA despite the clans intent still bares weight, and for some may even be on bare the same if not more weight as the KKK in terms of negative and harmful image. While, this will vary from person-to-person the fact remains the IRA as an organization was responsible for some heinous acts. This is not a debate about their intent or effectiveness. This is a debate about the harm words can impose of people. This is the point we are trying to make, as it stands DayZRP has so called "zero tolerance policy" in place as Chris said; "...community members are more important than the game that we play here. It's not right that you can make someone feel bad about themselves and their skin color, race, or cultural background, just so you can "play your character"." I can accept that as a valid reason if it was 100% true, as it stands many factors are still left unchecked that could in fact make someone feel bad about themselves for those vary reasons. I understand that the IRA is no longer present on the server so having him fall on that example may hurt our case, but the fact remains that poorly used accents, stereotypical behavior of cultures, clans named after organizations that played a role in many heinous acts towards another culture by definition run the risk of fulfilling all above reasons stated by Chris as to why they have said policy in place. This thread was created as a means of seeking clarification as to why they have a subjective zero tolerance policy in placed, and how they go about judging what content does or does not have the same potential to effect the community as they feel racial slurs may have. Or amend the current rule set to have a more open ended approach to RP, that is shared with some clans and players depending on the action. I understand that the use of accents, behavior etc... help add a level of depth to characters in this sitting, and often times said actions are not done with the intent of offending another, they are simply done as a means of adding to the character and situations, a creative device so speak. All we ask is to have that creative device branch out a little and encompass more topics to pose a wider array characters that share a wider range of flaws that are rooted within reality. (Touch screen texting not enjoyable)
  9. That is the point we are confused about, thus the subjective zero tolerance policy. Instead of the a purely objective one. If we have the zero tolerance policy to protect members from situations that one could perceive as harmful then why not a blanket ban on most hot topic issues? Just confusing how people view the community mature enough to handle some topics over others? While granted people will misuse the added freedom, as a community we have the ability to police and quill out the those that misuse said freedom. Or a fair compromise would be that if all parties involved agree to terms of the RP encounter and all that entails regarding the characters involved then on lookers should not be able to report said encounter as a clear rule break. Since to my understand even if the players you are role playing with are okay with the terms that are in use, someone around may not, and it is within their right to report said encounter. (Sorry I have to, but CE? Should toss in some UC or CC around man, mix it up. Overall Astray was not too bad. Huge Gundam fan myself. Summer Kenichi Yoshida and Yoshiyuki Tomino working together again! Back to the topic at hand.) This is true, but if you read throughout the thread we encompassed all forms of derogatory comments, be it sexism, homophobia, racial slurs. etc... What are trying to get across that is if we have a zero tolerance policy such things because they run the risk of offending someone, accents, clan themes etc... should be held under the same lens, and examined under said lens. Say if I found horrible Japanese accents offensive and viewed it as a means of mocking my culture? Is it right to say that what I find offensive is wrong, and I should find it it offensive? Who is to make such a judgment call, how is one even to make such a call as to what someone should view as offensive or not. That was an example. In short we really do not want to limit the RP, and what kind of characters we are able to portray if it is done in a respectable manner. Sort of falls under the common sense rule, if someone asks you to kindly stop, then stop respect that players choice, but a blanket ban out of fear seems wrong and out of placed where we allow torture, parody guilds, stereotypical accents, and stereotypical behavior just to name a few. People should have more faith in the community, not everyone is out to see the world burn, if it bothers you simply ask the person to stop and I do get the feeling most of the time they would be more then willing to stop. I highly doubt many here have the intent to make people uneasy. Communication goes a long way, no need for blanket bans over one aspect that could be viewed as offensive. That is why a subjective zero tolerance policy is not the right approach because going based off this thread alone people have a varying opinion as to what is and what is not offensive.
  10. I apologize for the bumb, though I was wondering a staff member would be willing to expand on the reasoning behind a subjective based zero tolerance policy, over a purely objective one. Also would be helpful if they addressed some of the points made within the thread. I do not think it is unfair to get an depth reasoning behind the ruling.
  11. *smiles* Speaking of the topic, care to expand on the reasoning, and comment on the points that were brought up within the thread?
  12. Hopefully the GM team will be able to shed some light on the issues brought up in the thread. Though I do agree with you, many of the comments that are against this simply seem to be cop-outs. I highly doubt this thread will change anything, but at the very least an in-depth reason from the GM staff would be awesome.
  13. Thanks you, did not mean to rustle any feathers if I did, I just do not buy the whole subjective zero tolerance policy. If the reasoning behind the zero tolerance policy is to limit the offensive content on the server when it comes to these types of conflicts and or topics. When in reality certain clan ideas or accents could also be seen as stereotypical and thus offensive to someone. Nevertheless, thank you I do hope for some closure.
  14. Why draw the lines at slurs though? You have a subjective zero tolerance policy, because it does not encompass all aspects that one could find racial offensive, be clan concepts, use of accents, or overall general behavior while portraying a certain culture. Just to name a few. So why not just switch to be an objective zero tolerance policy, if the intent is to limit the offensive content on DayZRP. No one who is for racial slurs in this thread thinks that it should be left unchecked or consider it a free pass to do whatever. People are simply asking for more options to create a wider array of characters that have the ability to pose more personalized conflicts and create realms of different and deeper development of the character. We are not asking to allow us to toss around "nigger" every other word. We just would simply just not like to be limited in what type of character we can create if it is within the realm of reason. Currently going based off my understanding of the rules, even if both parties agree and approve of the limited use of slurs or any other derogatory comment if someone were simply pass by, they could report the person for the comment, and being as it is a rule break not much the person can do. Even if those that were involved with the RP itself were perfectly fine with it. No one is asking for a free pass, if someone does not approve of it, they could kindly ask them to stop, and honestly many would. The community is strong no need to limit RP out of fear, I am fairly certain people will work together and respect one another. Clearly the thread shows that it is not a simple matter of everyone will find it offensive or not, people are different and some handle such topics better, so being able to freely RP with those that are personal okay with the topics should be okay, and not run the risk of an on looker putting in a report for a technical rule break. In short why not allow people to choose how they want to RP with one another if it is reasonable and done respectfully towards all parties involved?
  15. May I ask why? People are saying none, that someone will find it offensives. This is true, so why are we drawing the line at slurs though? What if someone were to say they found someones horrible accent, stereotypical and offensive? Or they feel as if a clan does not properly portray a culture and they found it as a personal insult? I am fairly certain people would not find much merit to these claims, and some may even go as far as to tell people to lighten up and not takes things so personal. Being as it is an RP server, let your character react, not the person behind the keyboard. So why not do that with racial, sexism, and simply any derogatory comment that may result in having a character that is deeply flawed as a human. Once again, I am fine with the zero tolerance policy, what I do not understand is if you have that policy in place due to the fact people may take offense to something, then why any action surrounding race that has the potential to be viewed as offensive, either subjectively or objectively present on the server?
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