Link to the situation:
Thread got deleted, but Nozzy getting Perm'd
Any supporting evidence or notes:
Right so let's start with Nozzy and everything with The Saints since this will be the most un-biased stuff I have to say as there's no love lost between me and a lot of the members involved. Nozzy getting banned is easy, he only had 5 points and you perm'd him on the spot for "old behavior". All of us on amnesty have given you money, 50 Euro in Nozzy's case, to get off final after 3 months and be a normal member of the community again. You have a right to ban any member of this community at any point, you own it, but that doesn't mean it's smart or even makes any sense to make such rash decisions concerning people that have not only put a lot of time into the community but money. Give people the benefit of actually getting banned using the system you implemented. I understand it can be frustrating if people just get up to 20-some points and then just go inactive to burn them off, but no system is perfect and it's better than just doing dramatic stuff like this that feels like it's out of nowhere.
For The Saints it just seems you were completely unfair to them. If a counter-argument is that you've done the same thing to other groups then you were unfair to them too. Their entire thread is primarily good feedback, and they were denied for being overly hostile with no RP behind the hostilities without any proof or even an explanation. These guys put effort into their thread and judging from feedback, including some from your own LM, they were doing a good job in game. If you're getting back feedback about groups privately don't just take a side; let it go to reports if necessary and go from there, that's the point of the reports section. Anyone looking through current events with an objective lens can see the server needs a group to actually start some conflict and hostilities because right now it feels like nothing is going on. Most people that would like to actually do this are completely dismayed by things like this that make it seem that a group that is hostile, initiates on people, isn't friendly in game, and openly does things that would take others out of their comfort zone isn't welcome here and that sucks since hostile groups have been the most well-known and influential forces on the server for as long as I've been here. Again, I feel like you should try to take what I'm saying on the two above matters more seriously, as for the most part these people aren't my friends, and in some cases we openly don't like each other, but it's not about them it's about you and how you've handled yourself in the community recently.
As for the 503 getting their group rights taken away I only have to talk on this:
If you don't agree with the highest members of your staff besides yourself on a subject that will ultimately negatively affect an entire group of people that actively play on your server than either don't overrule them or get admins that agree with you, because it's a really bad image. These people are members who in many cases have probably played on the server more than yourself and I'm confident, as you should be, that they know what they're doing.
Lastly I have more of an observation that a specific critique. A few years ago now, which is wild it's been this long, you started implementing harsher rules and restrictions and cracking down on things you deemed detrimental to your community including overly-hostile people and groups. During this time you had systems that limited who could initiate on who, the double miccing everything rule, and in general just over complicated things that turned a lot of people away from the community, whether it was from banning them or just people deciding to leave. The community hurt from this and you ended up having the lowest pop the server has seen as long as I've known of it's existence. When you announced amnesty I immediately shrugged it off since my last experience with the community before that point was awful and I wanted nothing to do with it, but you actually changed and decided to heavily roll back rules and in general just improve the experience. This made DayZRP feel like it did back in 2016 when I started and when there was 2+ servers FULL at most times of the day. Now it just seems like you're going down the same path again and it's showing. This is the server pops on a Friday around noon EST during a global pandemic:
You can attribute this to what you want but since DayZ's average pop is at the best place it's been at in years I don't think you can blame outside sources.
Suggestions for improvement: Lay back and stop cracking the whip completely unnecessarily. Let this place be as fun as it used to be and stop focusing on things you think are bad when in actuality they are non-issues or in some cases have actually helped your community in the past.
Man it's not even that. Not only did they brush it off some guys kill her friend and stab her and @FaeRP just goes "Oh they're still my friends ya just gotta get over it". Like what is that? Just because you don't like something that happened doesn't mean you can just act like it didn't. That's objectively worse and makes less sense than the execution, at least they had a valid reason to kill you, there's no excuse to just play off 3 dead bodies in camp and not give a shit.
Alright before I get into this just know I've liked a lot of the RP I've had with you guys. @Eagle and myself talking with Phoeynxx the other day and forming some kind of agreement was cool and I'm looking forward to see where it goes. If this were any other group I wouldn't even bother doing this but you guys are the most well known group in DayZRP for at least the past year, and I really hope you can actually do something to make things in game more interesting because everything for those I play with and myself just seems boring as hell right now.
So the other day the shovel debacle happened in your camp, where Riz gunned a guy down. I'm not gonna say whether it was within the rules or not because to be honest I don't care. Him immediately killing the guy was his business. I rolled into the camp a bit later and could tell the shovel-wielder's friends were about to initiate so I fucked off and came back after things calmed down. That's when this happened:
https://youtu.be/Vq5i8vPbnp4 (I guess videos can't be embedded but whatever just copy the link, also audio's out of sync)
So a hostile force came into your camp, executed your guy, and then instead of actually RPing with some semblance of what the hell just happened all the reaction really amounts to is "eh, shit happens, they're our friends lol". I don't need some Shakespearean level acting but at least make an attempt to give a shit about what happens when something dramatic like that occurs to your group. Furthermore, imagine if a member of the Wolfpack, like @RiZ in this situation, actually were to PK off that execution. It would probably be one of the most important things to happen on the server in a while but instead it's just another day another meaningless execution. Which yes, if you know someone's not going to PK there's no point in executing them but the issue in that lies as much with the executors as it does with the person refusing to lose their character even if it would lead to interesting and engaging RP.
At the very least I just want you guys to do something impactful, and instead that video leads me to believe you want to avoid conflict at all cost and just stay in your camp avoiding trouble just like soup and countless settlement groups before you. You don't need to be hostile, just actually respond to meaningful events in game and build on them instead of just brushing them away like nothing. Again, I don't care what rules were broken, my issue is with the actual RP surrounding what happened.
A lot of the well known groups in DayZRP history would be archived at some point today because people would've cried to staff about them one way or another. (Clowns, S-GRU, Gamblers, VDV, ZBOR, Horseman, Cherna Liska, The Catholics, New Moon, Saviors)
For every 5 minutes of meaningful RP with a conflict driving the story there's 2 hours of meaningless bullshit in Soup Kitchen that goes against the entire point of RPing in a game set in the apocalypse. It doesn't make sense, it's weird, and it's not the DayZRP that others and myself have enjoyed in the past.
Instead of trying to get a group on the server archived because you're losing in some way I advise the following decisions that many neutral groups have done in the past:
1. Make a hidden base (@Chief was good at this and never took shit to reports despite actually having valid reasons)
2. Get people to actually defend you, pay them, make a deal, R O L E P L A Y
3. Appease your attackers (People are too proud to do this 95% of the time and that's fine)
4. Take a break from the game. People don't know when to just step back and not play when they get pissed enough to put up controversial reports. I've done it, a lot of group leaders have done it, it's ok.
Just for clarification, I don't blame Soup Kitchen the group, they're fine. I blame the fact that any hostilities on Soup Kitchen as a whole are met with complete stonewalling and people crying OOC. The whole "not interrupting group goals" concept shouldn't exist because it goes against the natural progression of group conflicts. If a group has a valid reason to attack someplace they should be allowed to try and dominate that place as would happen in a realistic scenario. Many of you will disagree with this, and that's ok. When @Lyaria owned GMTC we attacked it because the gamblers were allowed to stay there and we didn't like it. There was no OOC crying, there was no reports, we all acted like adults and realized that conflict is a normal part of any video game, especially DayZ, and especially DayZRP.
What kind of sense does this make? No matter how much sense something makes and how much role play is involved, you can get fucked over because there was too much PVP involved in something, even if a majority of the time your group didn't initiate. There was no constant attacks, there was no "overdoing" it, and by the way you've posted in this report it just seems to reinforce the fact that you're disconnected from what it's like actually playing in the server and how groups actually behave. We started the conflict with them, that's fair, but everything we did from that point on was tit-for-tat based on their response. There could have been no conflict if the OP and Umbra decided to RP out the situation in a way that would have allowed them to live peacefully, which they could have easily done. The 503 aren't PVP monkeys despite popular belief, not only would there be no conflict if Umbra RP'd with a sense of self-preservation, they literally just had to not actively try to continue conflict with us. (aka immediately go out and attack our base in response)
It gives me such a bad taste in my mouth to see people go so far as to report something that by all accounts seems like a fair and natural conflict between two groups, and it's even worse that after everything presented in this report you're not only entertaining it but just stonewalling anything to the contrary.
I'm in the group and was involved so I guess I get to post here
Again, didn't hear this but it's fine.
@Lucas was not sitting by the hostages when I killed him. He pushed up to a combine in a field moving closer to the position of both myself, CJ, and Ingvalid. As per the current rules, initiating on an official group gives kill rights on the entire group. In this case, since the Joyces initiated on our members in the other car both groups had full kill rights on each other. Immediate safety, such as someone who can kill you moving up on your position, takes precedence over whatever the hell is going on with the hostages.
Miller Thompson POV: @CJ, @Ingvalid and myself skeedadle when it’s clear the Joyce’s were going to run up and initiate on us. I park the car down the road by a shed and go into the woods to get a shot on the attackers. I see one by the combine in the field after CJ calls him out and I take a few shots at him, killing him. We then go back to the car, relocate and wait for one of our boys that crashed, then go to another position to continue the fight.