Thank you to everyone who has been a part of this group. I've loved the RP and as much as it saddens me to archive, I've been struggling to keep such a large group happy for a number of different reasons, a large part of this stemming from the constant trolly RP and poor quality hostile RP we've experienced. I've tried my best, but the stress just outweighs the benefits at the moment. I wish everyone the best for the future.
Firstly, I would like to say that I think it’s a great idea for us as leaders to communicate more with each other to address issues and work to improve RP for our groups and others in the community.
I personally disagree that everything should be handled IC. Why do we have rules, forum discussions and reports? Because we RP as characters, as people who may act and think very differently from the person behind the screen.
Ultimately, we are all here to have fun and if the roleplay you are being subjected to is not enjoyable, then people should be able to reach out to the other party to constructively communicate their concerns. If we do not talk to each other OOC, it is very hard to determine if someone genuinely enjoys the RP and make adjustments accordingly to ensure that both sides are content.
I think it is a very selfish attitude for a person or group to subject people to the RP they find entertaining with no consideration for the other side and I see a lot of this happening in the community sadly. Telling someone to deal with it IC when the solution may be detrimental to their RP is equally as harmful.
In my opinion, poor quality hostile RP is forcing a fight or flight response, leading to constant unwanted PvP or people moving bases and hiding in the woods. While this may be characteristic of the apocalypse, this is a game we play to have fun. This same fight or flight response can be seen OOC, with constant arguments on the forums or people leaving the community. The issues will not be solved IC!
With that being said, I have spoken to my group regarding feedback for this thread.
What things do they enjoy/would like to see more of?
We enjoy interacting with random people on our travels or at our base which constitute more than a hi/bye or a quick trade. We’d like to see different people/groups meet up to RP and build stories.
We enjoy maintaining good relations with other groups, setting up trade and security deals which are of mutual benefit. For example, having a trader convoy actually travel between bases to exchange requested items.
We enjoy negotiating arrangements to ensure our safety from hostile groups. We enjoy the threat of good hostile RP that does not involve constant initiations and raids. For example, our camp has been tormented for weeks by a dynamic group who broadcast creepy coded radio messages and pick us off one by one. This has been some of the best story forming, tense RP I’ve had and OOC we eagerly await their arrival because its just so terrifying and well done.
We would like to see more movement across the map. With people remaining inside bases, it seems that you can run for hours without meeting anyone. Our group concept revolved around picking off the lone wanderer but lately, we struggle to find good RP. This leads to more internal RP, which as much as I love it, doesn’t contribute positively to the community as a whole.
Since we have such a large group, we aim to split people up so that while the base is still manned, others wander the map and interact more with other groups.
What is it they are displeased with and how can we correct this?
We work incredibly hard IC and OOC to maintain good relations with the hostile groups to mitigate their reasons to attack us but it is still a daily struggle for us to avoid and deal with poor quality hostile RP and unenjoyable trolling/memeing.
We do not fight back against groups as a rule for fear of endless hostilities and we do not appreciate people taking advantage of this. We do not enjoy unprovoked constant attacks on our home or our people. We do not enjoy ‘shut up, stare at the wall’ hostilities, nor do we enjoy being constantly raided and big dicked. We do not enjoy people coming to our camp and baiting initiations or attempting to create reasons to justify initiations. We do not enjoy sexual and racial comments made towards our members. We do not enjoy people accusing us of being a BDSM group. We do not enjoy people loitering outside our camp for no apparent reason. We do not enjoy excessive banter and memeing. We don’t enjoy people walking in and stealing right in front of us because they know we can’t/won’t stop them. We do not enjoy having to flee from our own camp to avoid poor RP. Yet sadly, we are encountering the above way more frequently than we would like.
It’s getting to the point where I have to deal with unhappy members daily, which I think is incredibly sad considering the numbers, talent and experience we have. Numerous members are thinking of moving servers and its becoming more common for people to run away and log rather than experience the poor RP from certain groups/individuals. I am struggling to keep everyone positive and focus on the good RP we do have because the negative encounters taint the RP and moods of everyone involved.
This will not be corrected by IC means. Sadly, there are those in the community who simply do not care for the enjoyment of others. This needs OOC intervention because as much as I love this community, it’s getting too much even for me.
I wish I had a magic solution for this. I personally think that the community is way too lenient when it comes to poor quality RP. The standards are too low in my opinion. The stance appears to be that if it’s not a rule break, its okay. It’s not. This allows people to provide RP that is just acceptable for them not to get banned, but is not pleasant either. The shift of people to other servers has already begun and while the new players may make up the numbers, they do not make up for the skill and experience of the quality RPers that may leave.
What style of gameplay/roleplay are they most interested in?
We are a group who enjoy both giving and receiving good hostile RP.
Our reasons when taking hostages are always IC motivated and we do not steal gear or look to execute. Our purpose is to create long term storylines. We initiate daily but PvP a few times a month only when we have little alternative. We aim to provide quality RP with enough build up to initiations that we very, very rarely have uncompliant hostages.
We welcome and enjoy hostilities against us when there is a storyline behind it with goals that don’t involve constant raids, initiations, executions and big dicking. We respect and follow reasonable demands.
We do have a substantial amount of internal RP, both hostile and campfire, but we are welcoming to outsiders where appropriate and actively seek external RP daily.
@Brayces I don’t doubt for a second the validity of your reasoning to play a child character. I hate having to deal with sexual comments in game and there is no denying that this is an effective solution. I don’t understand why people are so quick to dismiss someone else’s opinions simply because they may not have experienced it themselves. Also, the mentality that it’s up to the victim to prevent unwanted sexual attention is quite frankly concerning but that is another issue.
Portrayal of certain characters varies drastically and some traits require more skill and knowledge than others, such as age and mental illness. While I would not personally play a child character, as long as its done appropriately, there should be no issues.
I do however find it disturbing when people RP underage characters in relationships and marriages. Such a controversial topic is best excluded from RP in my opinion.
Thank you @keibancz for the kind words. We spend a massive amount of time and effort trying to maintain our neutrality so that we can continue the RP we enjoy in keeping with our group goals.
Sadly, these threads keep appearing, serving to highlight the issue that people are struggling to deal with hostilities both by IC and OOC means. Instead of negative responses, I wish that people from both sides would come together to try and make the RP more enjoyable for the community as a whole.
These are my thoughts on the matter and what works well for me and my group:
If you don’t want conflict with certain people/groups, take active steps to avoid it.
Don’t engage them in conflict, don’t shit talk, don’t PvP, don’t go to the areas they frequent. Be polite, be respectful, offer them things instead of waiting for them to take it. If they do initiate, give good RP, try to make deals, bargain, make amends if you do something wrong.
If you don’t make these efforts, then don’t complain when they keep attacking.
If you’ve done everything you can and they’re still attacking constantly, then by all means, raise your concerns respectfully OOC to the persons involved. Ideally, PM’s first, then feedback, then reports.
Find ways to end conflicts
If a conflict has already started, I strongly recommend reaching out to the party involved. Maintaining good OOC relations while having IC conflicts is great for ensuring that both sides are happy with the RP.
Since this is not a perma death server, be mindful that conflict is likely to be not just a once off. If you find a vulnerable enemy and torture him, expect repercussions. If you PvP once, expect it again… and again. This is where OOC communication is very important. Make a deal IC or OOC and stick to it, even if you lose, or don’t complain about constant hostilities.
I have found the ‘PvPers' friendly and accommodating when engaging with them OOC. Talk to them reasonably and politely and they should return the favour.
A few other points worth mentioning. I think ‘campfire’ RPers tend to be more vocal on the forums because if you are not willing to PvP, then finding an IC resolution to things can be tough if the other party is insistent on causing trouble. It is incredibly frustrating being subjected to constant ‘big dicking’ and a general, ‘well I will do what the fuck I want because I know you’re not going to stop me’ attitude. Despite my best efforts, this still happens to us occasionally.
I will say though that having this us/them mentality is not helpful, nor is constant bitching about it. Salty campfire RPers only add to the problem.
A note on hostile RP… I wish people would engage in hostilities with the intention of providing RP enjoyable to both parties instead of simply wanting to win at all costs. Hostile RPers who readily PvP need to realise that they hold huge power over the enjoyment of other people’s RP. Its easy for them to ‘deal with it IC’ because they have the numbers, skills and willingness to fight. But for those of us that don’t want to PvP, it is a huge challenge to deal with it IC. We are relying on you to use your power responsibly and to not be c**nts just because you can.
Please can everyone actually listen to the concerns and offer suggestions instead of berating people for trying to discuss issues.
Hey @Randy. I asked staff a while back if I could post in this report but did not receive permission since I was not directly involved. I did message the OP with the names and request that the two people involved post their POV.
I’m incredibly sorry for the actions of two of my group members. I was not aware that this had occurred until after the report was posted and I immediately contacted @Lemons to inform him of the events once I found out.
Since we found out IC as well as OOC, we took a trip to the island and returned the tent to @StewieRP as well as made a promise to hand over the culprits so that they can spend some time in jail to reflect on their poor choices.
@Hanro and @alexro will be posting their povs as soon as possible. I hope that they now have a better understanding of the broken rules.
Also, logs will show myself and others at the island around the time of the report but we remained on the outside of the base the entire time and were not involved in any damage or theft. We were not with the accused party at the time.
If the poll read “Should we allow telepathic communication during RP situations?” would the answers be the same?
I love the current changes to the rule. It makes absolutely no sense that someone could provide names, numbers, location and descriptions all within the sight and hearing of their captor or target and have it go magically unnoticed.
Removing this rule lends support to a more PvP focused server in my opinion since it makes calling in backup and comms during firefights easier. In the interests of immersive RP, I will continue to make the requirement of my group that they double mic, regardless of the outcome of this vote.
To @NorwayRP's credit, he has always been lovely about reaching out to ensure everything is satisfactory OOC. I really appreciate it and I don’t want a back and forth about my issue because immediate efforts were offered to correct it.
Considering the comments already posted, I will say this:
Address it IC:
I addressed the issue IC by denying the rumours but I am not going to point guns and initiate a war over it because that would be massively detrimental to my groups RP, goals and enjoyment. We are not here to PvP. How can we stop people spreading malicious rumours IC? We can’t. It’s been months and the same old stuff is still circulating.
Myself and my group members discussed concerns regarding the amount of trolly RP and outlandish accusations. Today, someone went OOC to clarify after comments were made about BDSM and asking my character for a lapdance. This was the response below, which I felt was blatantly dismissive.
(***** *****): //ooc its not sexual dude
(“Pavel Ivanov”): //ic i think its sexual so stop OOC
("Viktor Sereda"): // STOP OOC
Address it here:
My next option was to PM Norway with my concerns and he responded with “Sorry about that, we legitametly thought you guys were a sexual BSDM group.”
So yes, I am going to publicly leave feedback and clarify considering the above because I do not want the reputation of my group tarnished in this way.
Of course, your characters are free to believe what they want and I don’t have an issue with subtle references, but shouting over a megaphone to an entire camp about free rim jobs from Alyssa Black is not furthering any role play in my opinion. Thank you for taking the feedback on board.
I have already addressed this in PM’s and I hope that this will now cease, but since the response was that you genuinely thought we were a ‘sexual BDSM group’ I would like to clarify that this is NOT TRUE.
Please can you stop accusing me and my group of being a BDSM group. I have denied this so often in game. You are damaging our reputation very publicly and making us uncomfortable.
One of your group were just asked OOC by my group member to stop the sexual stuff but disregarded this, saying their characters thinks this IC. I ask you, how am I supposed to disprove this rumour apart from deny it? I don’t want to be asked for lap dances or talk about cock and ball torture.
Yes, there was one incident months back where my group member said something stupid and this was addressed IC and with him OOC, but please stop holding this over my group which he is no longer even a part of.
We are not a BDSM group. I didn’t mind a bit of banter, but this is going too far in my opinion:
I am not saying that talking in a hostile manner grants kill rights. What I said was that is was a fair assumption to make that @ZorullRP was part of the initiating group.
When I responded to the report, I believe that Zorull was on The Time CP along with his listed allies. Only now, I realise that they were playing on alternate characters who are on the Pamyati roster, but this did cause some confusion and even someone in the hostile party referred to them as the ‘slavers’ during the RP.
Since they will be protected by dynamic group rights as opposed to official, I would like to drop the report now that I have had a chance to explain my POV as I do not want to get @Diomondium into trouble for trying to defend us from attack.
Alyssa Black POV:
I was talking to @ZorullRP outside my base. We had a hostage inside so I denied him entry but he was insistent and I believed him to have hostile intent. I heard an initiation drop from an unknown person who I now know to be @NorwayRP, which was “All of you, hands up now or you’ll be -“. Although he may not have finished the last words, it was clearly an initiation and I immediately complied.
The other person outside the gates with me was @Diomondium, who is not part of the Toymakers. He is a member of Black Roses. He opened fire on the hostile group. Since Norway initiated and is in the same official group as @ZorullRP, I believe he validly used his defense rights against them. Since @ZorullRP admitted himself that he was asking questions in a “hostile manner”, I think it was a fair assumption to make that he was part of the initiating group.
I was uncertain who had initiated, who was still alive and who was shooting who but I kept my hand up the entire time. I waited for an amount of time and no further instructions were given. I wanted to get to safety during the confusion. I then heard an unknown voice saying all of you inside. Keeping my hand up, I moved into the entrance of my base. I was then shot in the back and killed.
I understand that @Kordruga claimed responsibility for killing me ICly. Again, I heard no other initiation apart from Norway and no other commands were given to me. They are not in a group together. Hence, I would like to counter report for invalid kill.
To my knowledge, my group complied and the RP continued. This report was posted before the hostage situation was even concluded. I would suggest in the future that you contact me because I could have easily confirmed that the non-compliant person was not a part of my group before you reported myself and the Toymakers.
Yuthee, I'm so excited that you're doing this! Of all the characters you've made, none have been so enigmatic and intriguing. I can't wait to discover more about what goes on in that head of his. Your writing is great and I can't wait for the next entry!
Realism is used as a justification for so many things… but this isn’t real life… it is a game. People would be getting KOS’ed daily. You wouldn’t torture a hostage and let them go. You wouldn’t be able to refuse when people try to cut off arms and legs. You wouldn’t survive after being shot in the head. We are all here to role play and have fun while being protected by the rules. Yes, sometimes it doesn’t make sense and we just have to accept that and work around it.
In addition, everyone enjoys different styles of gameplay and has different standards for what constitutes good RP. Personally, we have had numerous occasions where we have come together for a much-anticipated special event only for it to be interrupted by trolly RP, rule breaks, gun fights, and so on.
Is it really the end of the world if two people and their friends want to enjoy some RP without having to worry about it going wrong? While people can debate if an event is appropriate for this situation, consider their reasons for choosing this option in the first place. People seem very determined to ruin their big day and there is no point denying that snaking, metagaming and stream sniping do happen. To me, this is just a way for them to ask the community to let them have some RP for a few hours without unwanted hostilities and its sad that its already been tarnished by people’s attitudes.
I love this group and I am so hyped to see this page up. As terrifying as it is to run into you, I am always confident that the RP will be fantastic. I appreciate that you have approached hostilities with us in a way that makes it enjoyable for both sides and drives our stories forwards instead of being PvP focused or heavy handed. I wish you all the best of luck in getting approved.