S1: Metagaming/BadRp/Possible Invalid Execution/Possible Power gaming - VMC outskirts 07:00 am EST

[coolman23 175]

Server and location: S1 and VMC outskirts

Approximate time and date of the incident (SERVER TIME): 10/2/19 I think it was 12:22 Server time

Your in game name: James Mayson

Names of allies involved: N/A

Name of suspect/s: @JimRP and Associates

Friendly/Enemy vehicles involved (if any): Enemy Vehicles - Blue BMW and Red BMW 

Additional evidence? (video/screenshot): 

 

The hidden underneath this is the proof that my account was looked at during the whole situation to obtain some of the information I was questioned about that they appeared to have knowledge of.

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

Detailed description of the events: I had just finished getting killed in a firefight against the anarchist and had just respawned and within 30 min I had done some light looting at the VMC and then began running to NWAF when I was stopped by a BMW whistling to me so I stopped for a moment and began to hear what I was being stopped for I had a mask on to conceal my identity and had spoken in a Chernorussian accent the entire time. I was then asked to take off my mask and then my face was examined I had emoted that my face was scarred beyond anything that could be recognizable and then explained how a wolf really shredded up my face and left me looking like this I was then asked what my name was I said Dimitri Pertrovich and then I was told that my last name was Russian so I played along and said my father was Russian I had continued to keep it up and then I got question on the history of Chernarus which to OOC knowledge I don't know much about so I came up with the IC reason that I didn't know the Civil War nor the Capital and I had told them that it has been a long time since I had thought of anything pertaining to that part I then was told that I was lying and that nobody believes me I told them that good that you think that, but its wrong. I was then asked to give my ID over which I was then told without an examination of it that it was paper so I yelled at the man and said "Actually Man it's a Plastic Card" and then it was looked up in a database of all the Chernarussian ID's and nothing came up. I was also spoken to in I believe fluent Russian and I had already said I wasn't Russian so it just seemed as if they were trying to get me to trip over myself. At the point where I was still talking JimRp wrote in chat that he'd be back in a sec I believe and I was continuing to speak to the rest. After a lot of defending myself they said to run away and not come back just before I had the opportunity to leave I was told that I had to be driven now. At this point I was put into a Blue BMW and was driven by a man and Dimitri was sitting in the back while I was sitting in the passenger seat. I was then question on the authenticity of my being and continued to defend myself and try to have a conversation in this time I was interrupted while speaking being told that I broke my accent repeatedly like a school child and was being shouted at this happened on several occasions during the car ride for different reasons but all with the same school child energy. I kept my cool and continued to speak to both men I then was questioned what street I grew up on and what the house number was I told them there was no street names and I didn't know a house number because Im pretty sure we lost that a while ago and they told me they had a Map of all the street names and house numbers and then they asked me where I was born I said in the clinic in Storoy where I grew up and I had a farm just next door and then I was told because how I said that if I ever received anything it just showed up because it was a small town. Then I was made fun of because they said how could I order food to my house without a number to my house and I had to explain to them that I was not privileged enough to order food I had to walk to the market to get meat and cook it myself. This continued on for ages to the point where I was asked to roll up my sleeves to reveal tattoos that I have never emoted to anyone that no longer existed due to heavy scarring on my arms that left my arms looking disgusting, and as I was emoting it out to tell them I was being harassed why I was taking so long to roll up my sleeves and scolded for doing such. I then was told that oh you missing a right ear without an examination of me which I would have had no problem explaining or emoting and was told that's how he knew who I was. I continued to get drilled for who knows how long being questioned on the location where we were driving in and told oh yeah im chernorussian Im a tour guide I should know. Without any solid evidence I was told I was blatantly lying and they knew 100% who I was and that they were going to execute me for lying. I had never broken my character and had kept my story straight and it felt as if they were digging for points to execute me on. After I was executed I had looked at my profile out of curiosity on how information on me was being pulled that I hadn't shown anyone. I then realized that my profile was being viewed during the situation by JimRp himself which would explain how he knew of any tattoos on my arms, but I did not have an opportunity to update my Character profile prior to state that any markings on my arm were no longer visible due to torture that my character received as well as self harm that my character actively commits to himself.

[Daddy19RP 666]

G19 POV: I'd like to start off by saying that this was by far the most disappointing roleplay situation I have ever had. We get told IC about our base being robbed, I login and see the car driving off in the distance, Puncture, me, Hex and Jim take off after it, after a bit of chasing and searching around we stop in Komorovo to decide whether we'd check prison island or Cherno, while stopped we see two cars approaching, initiate and a firefight ensues. After the situation we gather the gear and head back home. As I am arriving I see a man who looks like a fresh spawn running away from my car. I pursue and immediately recognize his voice. In order to add to the roleplay I attempt to get him to remove his mask and inspect him. This is when I get hit with the most blatant and obvious powergaming I have ever seen. He emotes that all of a sudden in the past 2 or so days his face is now unrecognizable with scars. I dont believe Coolman understands how fucking scarred someone has to be to be "unrecognizable", not only this but he fails to answer the easiest questions of his life. His cover and attempt to hide was blown in seconds. Not only this, but Coolman has a history of doing this to us in character, the whole fake voice and fake identity thing. I tell him to get in the car and we take a drive, here we ask why his ear is gone, he makes up more excuses, he cant answer even simpler questions and we decide enough is enough. I give him numerous chances to tell the truth, giving him ample time to tell us who he really is. He continues to lie and try to powergame his way out of it, we reach the "end of the road" something I had been referring to throughout the drive. I give him one more chance, he lies again and is killed. Keep in mind we have interacted with Coolman numerous times, both hostage and not, and would have easily recognized his laundry list of features, such as missing fingers, missing ear, tattoos, etc. 

- We catch you

- I recognize your voice

- Try to give you RP

- You powergame scars that aren't on your character page

- You cant answer super easy questions

- You give poor excuses to your scars

- I give you numerous chances

- You fail to comply

- You die.

 

I would like to formally counter report @coolman23 for BadRP and Powergame. If I need to make a separate report, then let me know and I will do so.

Edited October 3 by G19RP

[coolman23 175]

1 minute ago, G19RP said:

G19 POV: I'd like to start off by saying that this was by far the most disappointing roleplay situation I have ever had. We get told IC about our base being robbed, I login and see the car driving off in the distance, Puncture, me, Hex and Jim take off after it, after a bit of chasing and searching around we stop in Komorovo to decide whether we'd check prison island or Cherno, while stopped we see two cars approaching, initiate and a firefight ensues. After the situation we gather the gear and head back home. As I am arriving I see a man who looks like a fresh spawn running away from my car. I pursue and immediately recognize his voice. In order to add to the roleplay I attempt to get him to remove his mask and inspect him. This is when I get hit with the most blatant and obvious powergaming I have ever seen. He emotes that all of a sudden in the past 2 or so days his face is now unrecognizable with scars. I dont believe Coolman understands how fucking scarred someone has to be to be "unrecognizable", not only this but he fails to answer the easiest questions of his life. His cover and attempt to hide was blown in seconds. Not only this, but Coolman has a history of doing this to us in character, the whole fake voice and fake identity thing. I tell him to get in the car and we take a drive, here we ask why his ear is gone, he makes up more excuses, he cant answer even simpler questions and we decide enough is enough. I give him numerous chances to tell the truth, giving him ample time to tell us who he really is. He continues to lie and try to powergame his way out of it, we reach the "end of the road" something I had been referring to throughout the drive. I give him one more chance, he lies again and is killed. 

- We catch you

- I recognize your voice

- Try to give you RP

- You powergame scars that aren't on your character page

- You cant answer super easy questions

- You give poor excuses to your scars

- I give you numerous chances

- You fail to comply

- You die.

 

I would like to formally counter report @coolman23 for BadRP and Powergame. If I need to make a separate report, then let me know and I will do so.

All I have in response is Who is Aiden O'hare and where have we met before?

[Daddy19RP 666]

7 minutes ago, coolman23 said:

All I have in response is Who is Aiden O'hare and where have we met before?

My character alone has not met you, however the rest of my group in both part and whole have. Its a fairly simple point, never did I claim to know you IC, Jim did, if you watch your video you will see me ask who he recognizes and such. Its is very, very simple Coolman, you powergamed yourself to avoid capture, something that would have led to roleplay and questioning, since no execution rights exist on you. In the future, if you decide to actually roleplay it out, then this problem will not exist, as it will be handled organically and dynamically. It was extremely disappointing to see a group leader, a VIP and council member behave in such a way, it left an extremely sour taste in our mouth towards your group. Now, before it begins I suggest we stop this back and forth and let staff handle the report.

Edited October 3 by G19RP

[Realize 214]

Connection Logs:

Spoiler

10:12:10 | Player "James Mayson" is connected
- Dead -
11:23:14 | Player "James Mayson" has been disconnected

10:03:51 | Player "Aidan OHare" is connected
11:54:31 | Player "Aidan OHare" has been disconnected

10:02:21 | Player "Dimitri Tarasov" is connected
11:45:48 | Player "Dimitri Tarasov" has been disconnected

Hit Logs:

Spoiler

11:23:06 | Player "James Mayson" hit by Player "Aidan OHare" with M4A1 from 4.48968 meters 
11:23:06 | Player "James Mayson" hit by Player "Aidan OHare" with M4A1 from 4.48968 meters 
11:23:11 | Player "James Mayson" hit by Player "Aidan OHare" with M4A1 from 5.92797 meters 
11:23:11 | Player "James Mayson" hit by Player "Aidan OHare" with M4A1 from 5.92797 meters 
11:23:11 | Player "James Mayson" hit by Player "Aidan OHare" with M4A1 from 5.92797 meters 

Kill Logs:

Spoiler

11:23:06 | Player "James Mayson" (DEAD) killed by Player "Aidan OHare" with M4A1 from 4.48968 meters 

Chat Logs:

Spoiler

11:05:37 | Chat("Aidan OHare"): *INSPECTS MAN'S FACE*//WOULD I RECOGNIZE YOU?
11:05:43 | Chat("James Mayson"): *Face Is scarred beyond anything reconizable*
11:08:14 | Chat("James Mayson"): *Pulls out ID Showing Dimitri Pertrovich*
11:09:18 | Chat("James Mayson"): *Hands ID*
11:09:39 | Chat("Dimitri Tarasov"): // one sec
11:11:07 | Chat("James Mayson"): *Takes and put in my pocket*
11:11:12 | Chat("Aidan OHare"): //would the scars be recent?
11:11:19 | Chat("James Mayson"): *Partially*
11:11:25 | Chat("James Mayson"): //*
11:12:05 | Chat("Dimitri Tarasov"): *Dimitri keeps his AK on his lap, staring at the man, sizing him up and down.*
11:15:16 | Chat("James Mayson"): *Rolls Up sleeves to show arms both carved up with cuts and carvings*
11:19:00 | Chat("James Mayson"): *Rolls down sleeve*
11:19:32 | Chat("Dimitri Tarasov"): *Dimitri nods his head along.*
11:24:09 | Chat("Dimitri Tarasov"): WATER

Calling in the following people to post their Point of Views & any video evidence they may have:
@coolman23 | James Mayson | OP
@G19RP | Aidan OHare | POSTED
@JimRP | Dimitri Tarasov | POSTED

[coolman23 175]

5 minutes ago, Realize said:

Connection Logs:

  Hide contents

10:12:10 | Player "James Mayson" is connected
- Dead -
11:23:14 | Player "James Mayson" has been disconnected

10:03:51 | Player "Aidan OHare" is connected
11:54:31 | Player "Aidan OHare" has been disconnected

10:02:21 | Player "Dimitri Tarasov" is connected
11:45:48 | Player "Dimitri Tarasov" has been disconnected

 

I would also like to add that Dimitri Tarasov Combat Logged he left about 22 min after the situation

[Realize 214]

Can you please answer the following question accordingly:
@coolman23
Is there any way you can provide us with a time stamp on the screenshot you had taken, when @JimRP was viewing your profile ? 
Can you also provide evidence of the recent scaring of your character, for his arms and face ? 

[coolman23 175]

The screen shot as seen in the photo was taken at 7:25 am and it is currently 9:39 pm and the scarring happened just before my respawn because I was driving a truck that was shot at and Due to the broken glass being flug into my face due to the speed at which we were driving I chose to Rp out a large amount of cuts and scarring so I could receive some decent medical RP.

[Realize 214]

@coolman23 What time zone is that so we can cross-check it with the logs ?

[coolman23 175]

GMT -5 I believe Eastern standard time. I live in New York 

[Daddy19RP 666]

Interesting to note that I asked you if your scars were recent and you responded with “partially”. If it happened just before respawn then they would be extremely recent, not partially. Seems like you have changed your story to fit your agenda better. Check the chat logs for this.

Edit: You can also see in his video at 11:30 ish when we ask him to roll his sleeves up and show us whats there, he takes forever to type it out, changing what he types multiple times. Even typing "ta" once, obviously going to emote tattoos until he magically changed what had "happened" to his character, in which he deletes it and types "carvings and cuts". If he had so easily decided on his scars and cuts previously then he would not have shown this amount of hesitation in something as simple as emoting rolling your sleeves up. 

Edited October 3 by G19RP

[Realize 214]

Can you answer the following question @JimRP :

Why were you viewing @coolman23 profile at the time of this encounter ?
Can you please explain why you logged out under the 30-minute combat log timer ?

[JimRP 2780]

2 hours ago, Realize said:

Can you answer the following question @JimRP :

Why were you viewing @coolman23 profile at the time of this encounter ?
Can you please explain why you logged out under the 30-minute combat log timer ?

I have ran into coolman23 5-6 times now. I was done with him doing 123 accents every time. He almost fooled us once but even then didn't RP text on purpose and did not give any hints it was him even tho we had ran into him 3-4 times before and so, I looked at his features that would stand out from all our previous encounters and realized that the guy we found shared the same features. When we caught him, he lied repeatedly and broke his fake accent LOADS of times. Also I went //brb to take a pisss IRL. He tried to fake being a Chernarussian but couldn't say the capital. He also RP'd giving us a fake ID with a name who god knows how he got. So, things were not lining up, he lied and died. People are allowed to view people's profiles they RP with often. Coolman shared the same physical features (missing ear, hair, cuts on his arms) and had the same tattoos from multiple previous encounters, same voice at a few times throughout our convo and kept repeatedly lying his teeth out to us. I logged because of an IRL emergency (its because of a private reason but GMs can PM me). I would like the GMs to keep in mind that we ran into coolman like 6 times already. Even if all inches of his face were cut, he would share all other physical features. I asked him to take his shirt off because missing a right ear and a pinky is quite of a HUGE giveaway of who you are as well as faking a nationality improperly, it leads us to questioning who you are.

EDIT: On-top of that, you got similar cuts on many other parts of your body that we could recognize as well as tattoos. Tattoos do not fade that easily with cuts, that is not how cuts work on tattoos. Also you do not need to emote features like your ear and we do not need to examine you. These are things we noticed from previous experiences. Also please refer from calling our yelling school child like, we were trying to give you hostage RP.

[Rover 507]

@coolman23 When it was apparent that your ruse didn't succeed and they clearly did not believe you, what was your reasoning for continuing to stick with the lie?

[coolman23 175]

39 minutes ago, Rover said:

@coolman23 When it was apparent that your ruse didn't succeed and they clearly did not believe you, what was your reasoning for continuing to stick with the lie?

To be quite honest I really thought I was going to be left in the far regions of the map. As much as they said they were going to kill me it almost seemed a ruse in itself. James is a very devious man he does get away with a lot without ever being noticed. He keeps that mindset throughout his encounters because that’s the man he is. His persistence has only pushed him forward all his RP is centered around his persistence so he keeps up with it. If he makes himself believe it others will. James always tries a new accent when encountering people and that was his first “larger scale” attempt for the chernorussian accent. I really thought it was all going to lead to me being tortured to get the truth if anything were to happen.

Edited October 3 by coolman23
Needed to add more

[Rover 507]

Can a member of Anarchy please elaborate on what the database is that coolman23's characters Id was checked against?

[NorwayRP 32]

*Posted with permission from @Rover*

To clarify, the ledger is an excel sheet made by members of anarchy that contains the collective IC information obtained by group members about individuals attempting to obtain a license, people we have met that have failed to obtain a license and their current standing on different licensing processes.

For context here is a sample entry for the ledger

| Bela Kovar | | @Mia | | Firearms License YES | | MP5K/Mini 14 | | Drivers License YES | | Base License NO | | Radio License Pending | | Fishing License Pending | | Paid NO | | Given by Arri Graham | | Written by Arri Graham | | 28-09-19 | | 

All of this information is gained IC via interactions with these characters, and through them willing giving out their IC info including full first and last name in order to obtain the license, for those attempting to gain a base license they must give out the full location of their base along with along our civil engineers to enter the base to make sure it is up to code.

In some cases in which we are aware of a characters negative interactions with our group in the past for example Bobby Kalo's crew we will add a suffix to the end of the description to provide our guys with further information in the case of an encounter with those individuals.

As major stated here "The issue of his exact address isn't clear but I do know that the accused have knowledge of where his camp is. " 

@devstatnglydanka member of their group actually snaked them out and gave us the location of their planned camp at Kamensk town. Obviously I am putting him on the spot here but he can confirm that and I'd like to ask the other members of the Messengers to not take that IC.

 

Edited October 4 by NorwayRP

[Major 3327]

I feel the need to clarify here as I advised @Voodoo on this topic earlier today and my words appear to have been taken out of context or completely changed by staff members involved in this report for some reason. Since then I have been asked for some info on the issue of databases and such. 

To start, I was initially told (and understood) that Anarchy had access to a Chernarussian government database that included the ID's of all citizens along with their addresses and such. It was on this understanding that I told Voodoo that Anarchy or anybody having access to such a database would be unrealistic. Not even Chernarussian State Security would have immediate access to such a database in the field, the Chernarussian police doesn't have a DMV of the complexity that the US does, where a cop in Arizona can see my reckless driving charge in Utah. This doesn't appear to be the case. That would be powergaming. 

The idea that Anarchy can make a database or use laptops/phones is completely within the Lore. Even you can do it! 

Sources of electricity are rare, but not nonexistent, hell even now you can buy a $50 solar phone charger on Facebook. You also don't need a laptop with internet connection to have a database. Open Excel and start making entries. You could compile a massive amount of information that way that normally would have to be written down in a notebook and indexed. 

They by everything I have been told have him in the database and ran a search for his info. The issue of his exact address isn't clear but I do know that the accused have knowledge of where his camp is. 

If my further assistance or advice is required I'll be around, for now I'm gonna head back to my break. Godspeed.

Spoiler

 

[JimRP 2780]

8 hours ago, Major said:

I feel the need to clarify here as I advised @Voodoo on this topic earlier today and my words appear to have been taken out of context or completely changed by staff members involved in this report for some reason. Since then I have been asked for some info on the issue of databases and such. 

To start, I was initially told (and understood) that Anarchy had access to a Chernarussian government database that included the ID's of all citizens along with their addresses and such. It was on this understanding that I told Voodoo that Anarchy or anybody having access to such a database would be unrealistic. Not even Chernarussian State Security would have immediate access to such a database in the field, the Chernarussian police doesn't have a DMV of the complexity that the US does, where a cop in Arizona can see my reckless driving charge in Utah. This doesn't appear to be the case. That would be powergaming. 

The idea that Anarchy can make a database or use laptops/phones is completely within the Lore. Even you can do it! 

Sources of electricity are rare, but not nonexistent, hell even now you can buy a $50 solar phone charger on Facebook. You also don't need a laptop with internet connection to have a database. Open Excel and start making entries. You could compile a massive amount of information that way that normally would have to be written down in a notebook and indexed. 

They by everything I have been told have him in the database and ran a search for his info. The issue of his exact address isn't clear but I do know that the accused have knowledge of where his camp is. 

If my further assistance or advice is required I'll be around, for now I'm gonna head back to my break. Godspeed.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

We are not using a government database, we made our own ledger which is a paper we call the database with Excel. GMs can PM me for it.

[Rover 507]

Summary

In this situation @coolman23 is taken hostage by members of Anarchy and interrogated as to who he is. Due to past prior meetings and conflicts, the members of Anarchy are able to determine in fairly short order who @coolman23's character is, and take him for a drive while continuing to interrogate at him. At the end of this drive he is executed for repeatedly lying to Anarchy members about who he is.

 

Rulebreaks

@coolman23 It should have been readily apparent during the roleplay that your cover was blown due to the number of reasons Anarchy could see through it and roleplayed through it. The geography questions, the trivia about Chernarus, and the multiple familiar injuries/tattoos your character has would have been sufficient to determine your identity. As you continued to stick with a blown cover story in the face of repeated questions and mentions of 'last chances', this was determined to be not valuing your characters life.

@JimRP You logged out within 30 minutes of a hostile situation that led to the death of @coolman23's characters. While we understand RL comes first, this was still determined to be combat logging.

As for the accusations of BadRP by both parties, the staff team does not find these to be founded.

As for the accusations of metagaming, it is not metagaming to look at a character page during an active roleplay. It would be metagaming if you pulled information off of the character page that you did not already know. Visual clues however are things you can plainly see in game, and are not considered metagaming so long as you take the time to get the person to reveal these. (Emoting rolling sleeves up for example to see arm tattoos.) Please note that we highly recommend characters keep their pages correctly up to date with the right information.

As for the accusation of Powergaming, the Anarchy database used to pull information is one compiled solely on IC information that was gained in game. As for the accusations about @coolman23's visual scars, we find the reason for it not being updated on the website to be sufficient, as it had just happened recently in game and we see no powergaming attempt here.

As for the accusations of invalid execution, @coolman23 was non-compliant to questions about who he was repeatedly over an extended period, granting execution rights.

 

The rules broken are quoted below for convenience:

Quote

3.2 Your character must behave realistically and appropriately to the different situations you participate in, keeping the current world situation and context of post-apocalyptic world in mind. Do not act in a way that indicates no value for your characters life and survival. For example, attempting to kill people when heavily outnumbered, excessively talking back or insulting someone when taken hostage, or knowingly running into an area of active hostile engagement when not involved in the fight. Characters found guilty of breaking this rule will be permanently marked as dead.

4.5 Combat logging is leaving the server during or shortly after a hostile situation or when your character is still involved in active role play. After a hostile action has occurred where you were involved, you may only log out from the game after a minimum of 30 minutes have passed since you broke the line of sight with others involved in that situation. This rule can be ignored if the other players give you OK to log out earlier.

Suggestions

@coolman23 In the future if you feel or suspect your cover story is blown, or your hostage takers have obviously seemed to figure out who you are, you should consider dropping the ruse and complying with their demands.

@JimRP If you are forced to leave due to an RL emergency after a hostile situation we encourage you to reach out to the player involved for permissions, and if they are unavailable to reach out directly to a staff member for permission to log.

 

Verdict

@coolman23 - NVFL (No Value for Life) -  Guilty - 3 day ban, 10 warning points, Character permanently killed 

@JimRP - Combat Logging - Guilty - 3 day ban

Signed by: @Rover, @Samti, @Hofer

[Roland 9762]

Executions are regulated by rule 4.6 which has a list of conditions required to execute a hostage.

The reasoning used by the hostage takers in this situation was non-compliance of the hostage because they claim he repeatedly lied and refused to reveal his real identity.

The definition of non-compliance we use goes something like "refusal to complete a command or demand during a hostile situation where failure to do so would put the attacker at risk". The risk part is important because we don't want people who get initiated on or taken hostage executed for simple, irrelevant actions or mistakes that players often do. Therefore things like turning the wrong way, accidentally crouching, not being to access inventory due to a bug, moving slightly due to accidental key press, pressing wrong F2 button, etc are NOT considered non-compliance.

So for example during an initiation, non-compliance would be refusing to drop weapon when asked to. Why is it a risk? Because a weapon in hands of a person who has been initiated on can lead to severe health issues for the attacker.
Similarly, during a hostage situation, hostages may be asked things like put your hands up, stay here, sit down, go this way, get in the car, etc. Why is it a risk? Because it prevents hostage takers from freely moving and having control over the situation, as well as minimizes the hostages ability to escape, stall the situation or pick up a weapon.

That's why refusal to follow commands like these is called non-compliance and non-compliance gives hostage takers right to kill the hostage.

Now, the act of claimed "non-compliance" where hostage fails to give up information meets none of that criteria. You do not put any of the hostage takers at risk or change the balance of the situation by not giving up information. Especially when this information is not even of any greater value, strategic or imminent importance and is just "who are you?". Obviously you make it worse for your character and as such you can be tortured and the whole situation gets prolonged, but it is still not "non-compliance" that would grant execution or kill rights.

That doesn't mean that you can't role play "I will kill you if you don't tell us about X", but without valid execution rights you can't actually go through with this threat. Simply put, you can't force someone to tell you the truth or give up valuable IC information and kill their character if they refuse. That would put far too much power into hostage takers hands as they would essentially have universal reason to execute someone as well as be able to gain any and all internal group information or else threaten hostages with getting PKd. Take this situation for example:

• Take enemy member group hostage
• Demand him to give up their base and any stash locations, numbers, member names, usual places to hang out, allies, etc or else he will be killed
• The hostage has now a choice of either giving up all information he has which seriously impacts his group and would probably shut it down OR risk getting his character killed for "non-compliance" and later PKd through a NVFL report because he didn't give up the true information. Pick your poison motherfucker.

That's not how hostage executions are supposed to work. What is most troublesome out of all of this though is that NONE of the GMs handling this report even hinted at this obvious fallacy when issuing NVFL verdict. We will need to work on that.

 

Since lying is in my opinion not a valid reason to execute someone, the kill on the hostage is invalid and NVFL will be removed.

@G19RP Invalid kill (RP) - 3 day ban, 10 warning points

@coolman23 NVFL - removed, character resurrected

 

 

On the sidenote, if you already know the real identity of the hostage because you recognized him from before, why not just go through with whatever you wanted to do with him based on his real identity. Why all the hoops to jump through and stupid questions and dragging out the situation to make him to admit his identity if you already know it? I catch X because he is a bad guy, X claims he is Y, I know he is lying, I treat X as X and do whatever I would have done to X and release him. I don't continue into digging why he claims to be Y and have him to admit he is X if I already know that and go as far as to kill him for it. I really don't get it.