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Conor

Reword rule 4.5 right now

Should rule 4.5 be re-worded immediately?  

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As of this moment, rule 4.5 states the following: Combat logging is leaving the server during or shortly after a hostile situation or when your character is still involved in active role play. After a hostile action has occurred where you were involved, you may only log out from the game after a minimum of 30 minutes have passed since you broke the line of sight with others involved in that situation. This rule can be ignored if the other players give you OK to log out earlier.

 

The wording of 'after a hostile action has occurred where you were involved' does not specify whether this was a hostile situation where you are the aggressor or the victim or if anybody has active attacker/defender rights on you.

 

It seems the opinion of staff as stated in some recent 'Ask the Staff' threads seems to say to me that they would be slapping hostages for combat logging if they log out within 30 minutes of being released, even if nobody has hostile rights against them... something I think is ridiculous.

If you are the victim of a hostile situation, that is something outside of your control. When you are released, as long as nobody has active kill rights on you, you should be able to log out whenever you please.

I do not think this is something that should be "brought up as a possible future rule revision" as Voodoo has stated. This should be fixed immediately.

 

My suggestion would be to change the wording of rule 4.5 to read something along these lines (Change is in bold):

Combat logging is leaving the server during or shortly after a hostile situation or when your character is still involved in active role play. After a hostile action has occurred where another party has active attacker/defender rights on you, you may only log out from the game after a minimum of 30 minutes have passed since you broke the line of sight with others involved in that situation. This rule can be ignored if the other players give you OK to log out earlier.

 

 

Note: I am aware the rule has been like this for a while but only today has it come to my attention, hence this thread.

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Former Community Helper Roman made a thread a while back:

In this thread Master @Roland stated his opinion. I hope that this will change since a pretty big majority of the community wanted to change it.

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8 minutes ago, Roman said:

Former Community Helper Roman made a thread a while back:

That thread is a good read, although I am unsure who this former community helper known as Roman is... there was this one guy who was an 'ok' CH... his name was Djevful. Another cool fact is that his dad worked for EB Games.

Hopefully Rolles opinion has changed 😄

When you are a hostage you should not have to go OOC to ask if you can log out afterwards. If you are a hostage and somebody has kill rights on you because you fought back or something, then obviously you do have to wait 30 minutes, because somebody has kill rights on you. If the hostage has friends who want to chase after the hostage takers, that is between the friends of the hostage and the hostage takers to fight out between them, since by initiating on the hostage they gave rights to the hostages friends. If the original hostage wants to log out, there should not be anything stopping them. If the hostages friends start fighting before the hostage logs out/is released then more kill rights come into play which would stop the hostage from logging out before 30 mins.

Edited by Conor

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Or maybe we should stop acting like its a kindergarden in general instead of making reword this rule remove that rule threads 🤷‍♂️

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I haven't seen this as an issue yet. I hope it never becomes an issue. But let's look into it

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2 hours ago, Conor said:

My suggestion would be to change the wording of rule 4.5 to read something along these lines (Change is in bold):

Combat logging is leaving the server during or shortly after a hostile situation or when your character is still involved in active role play. After a hostile action has occurred where another party has active attacker/defender rights on you, you may only log out from the game after a minimum of 30 minutes have passed since you broke the line of sight with others involved in that situation. This rule can be ignored if the other players give you OK to log out earlier.

This seems good to me.

A change like this doesn't seem like a big deal but I understand we want clarity in rule changes. I don't see a real problem with adding a few words to more clearly specify what the 4.5 rule is stating. Looks like a small quality of life improvement to me and i'll take all of those I can get!

shaun the sheep movie ok GIFshaun the sheep movie ok GIFshaun the sheep movie ok GIFshaun the sheep movie ok GIF

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I also agree that if hostages do not have any kill rights on them they shouldn't be forced to stay online because somebody took them hostage. 9/10 the hostage will get perms to log but in the case that they don't a re-wording to allow hostages to log, so long as they do not have any kill rights active on them at that time would be a nice addition.

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lets put it in simple terms:

Why should somebody, who was forcefully attacked and taken hostage by a group of people forcefully stay on the server an extra period of time because somebody else beyond their control decided to attack them?

You force people to do stuff OOCly that they had no control over to stay on while a hostage taker should stay on because that person started the hostilities. KOS is Kill rights,  not kill obligation, they do not need to kill somebody or harm anybody. But the moment they or a friendly party in their group decided to use those KOS RIGHTS, they of course should stay the minimum time also along with the other party.

TLDR. This rule is unfair as its out of control of the player.

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4 minutes ago, Saunders said:

hostages do not have any kill rights on them 

Just for my understanding: having kill rights on a hostage as in : the hostage is non compliant and for example runs away / is liberated by allies. In this case a hostage has kill rights on herself/himself and should not be allowed to log out, in your opinion?

6 minutes ago, StagsviewRB said:

lets put it in simple terms:

Why should somebody, who was forcefully attacked and taken hostage by a group of people forcefully stay on the server an extra period of time because somebody else beyond their control decided to attack them?

You force people to do stuff OOCly that they had no control over to stay on while a hostage taker should stay on because that person started the hostilities. KOS is Kill rights,  not kill obligation, they do not need to kill somebody or harm anybody. But the moment they or a friendly party in their group decided to use those KOS RIGHTS, they of course should stay the minimum time also along with the other party.

TLDR. This rule is unfair as its out of control of the player.

basically what I've said here before some time. +1

Also I'd like to add the poll result of community helpers thread @Roman as well.

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3 minutes ago, Ron said:

Just for my understanding: having kill rights on a hostage as in : the hostage is non compliant and for example runs away / is liberated by allies. In this case a hostage has kill rights on herself/himself and should not be allowed to log out, in your opinion?

So, if I've been taken hostage and I manage to get away or like you said, my allies begin to fire at the captors (giving the captors kill rights), then the hostage should have to abide by rule 4.5 and stay logged in for 30 minutes after losing line of site of their captors. This would give captors a chance to hunt down and kill their hostages and would stop the hostages from being able to run away and log out. However, if the hostages comply and then get let go, I feel that they should be able to log straight out as being taken captive was no fault of their own, so why should they have to be made to wait the 30 minute combat log timer?

Of course these are just my personal opinions, but I would love to see these changes made.

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As mentioned staff are looking into this rule. 

I also agree on a personal note that hostages shouldn't have to wait out timers given there is nobody with kill rights on them.

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As long as the hostage hasn't done anything to grant Kill rights on them they shouldn't be forced to stay on another 30 minutes. I mean honestly, that is just mean.

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Tweak is needed no word against it the best solution and wording im same with @Saunders here. 

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While I do wish fully compliant hostages could log off once released, I also understand Rolle’s May response to the same question. 

It just seems rude to respond //no to a complaint hostage’s request to log off before the 30 minute combat timer is up.  Rude or power hungry, not sure which.

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This rule is probably the stupidest rule I've ever seen. Except for the double-micing rule. If the hostage complied through the whole hostile interaction, no one's going to have KOS on them. Most hostage takers will dip tf out before the hostage's group comes and yeets their souls. This rule make absolutely no fucking sense.

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I get that they do not want the rules to be too complicated, but this one really needs changing. Imagine wanting/having to log soon and then getting taken captive. You are alraedy forced to wait for the rp to finish which takes quite a while in some cases. Then after the interaction you still need to wait another 30 minutes to log off even though the hostage takers at this point have no rights on you. Sure you have kos rights on them, but it's not like you have to use those rights.

Also a seperate question: If you get taken hostage and you only have let's say 15 minutes left to play. You notify the hostage takers at the start of the interaction but they do not act on it and decide to keep you as a hostage for longer. Are you still forced to finish the rp, and if you log out during the encounter(after notifying the hostage takers ofcourse) is this still a bannable offense? 

Edited by Husky.

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31 minutes ago, AndreyQ said:

Yeah it's an annoying rule. Just log out. No one reports it anyway.

I do not think the issue would be people reporting their former hostages, but if a report is created regarding any part of the situation and staff pulls logs, I do not want them to start questioning hostages "Why did you log out?" and then hit them with a CL punishment. It would be extremely petty and just changing a couple of words in the rule would avoid this without changing anything else.

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rule dumb, plz change, ty

Edit for staff: The rule is dumb because hostages have no control over who initiates on them, only their compliance. If they comply, there should be no rights on them and they should be free to log. I urge the admin team to look over this idiotic rule. Thank you.

Edited by APositiveElmo

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1 hour ago, APositiveElmo said:

rule dumb, plz change, ty

Agreed. Thank you for your contribution to this discussion dearest Elmo 🙂

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5 hours ago, APositiveElmo said:

rule dumb, plz change, ty

Edit for staff: The rule is dumb because hostages have no control over who initiates on them, only their compliance. If they comply, there should be no rights on them and they should be free to log. I urge the admin team to look over this idiotic rule. Thank you.

Agreed. Thank you for your rule abiding contribution to this discussion dearest Elmo 🙂

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Just now, Conor said:

Agreed. Thank you for your rule abiding contribution to this discussion dearest Elmo 🙂

Man stop quoting me for beans or I’ll slap you.

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Just now, APositiveElmo said:

Man stop quoting me for beans or I’ll slap you.

If you are going to post in this forum topic, I would like you to post content relevant to the discussion presented in the OP. De-ku-ji.

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6 hours ago, ne_om said:

clicked no by accident was meant to vote yes! Sorry Connor

That is okay, Conor. I forgive you for clicking no.

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