Jump to content
Server time (UTC): 2019-11-13, 13:29
Sign in to follow this  
TheLamp1

Numbers or spy station in radio forms

Recommended Posts

I was curious if I was able to do numbers stations or use a cypher like Caesar or a Vigenere Cypher using the phonetic alphabet kinda like 

"Sierra Echo X-ray Alfa Zulu Hotel Alfa Lima  Lima Romeo Quebec November Zulu Uniform"

without deciphering the code or providing the key needed to decipher it in the radio forms? btw the code for this one is "Lamp"

or even run a numbers stations where its just numbers?

or is there a way for me to be able to pass along the deciphered message upon request privately to an admin?

Share this post


Link to post

All Radio transmission must have translations for different languages only people who have knowledge of the language would be able to understand. Example like: Guten Tag  also Code isn't allowed referring to the Radio chatter rules in the radio transmissions. sure you might be able to read of letters and you're group might have a slip of paper with the code written down but you would still need to provide translation if this was accepted but I would wait for a staff member to validate this.

Quote

2. All messages must be in English or with provided accurate English translation. You cannot send encrypted data, video or anything else that isn't speech that can be transferred through a regular walkie talkie.

Quote

"Guten tag" Good Day in German 

 

Edited by Johnny Navid
Reworded

Share this post


Link to post

It would essentially be secret messages transmitted through the English language. To anyone else it would be as simple as gibberish from a madman but to the right person it would be a coherent message. It isn't like I would use such a thing to transmit a message that was against any of the rules and I would be more then happy to privately submit transcription and decipher methods/keys besides these are just a few of more simpler ways of transmitting private messages that are available to me and there are more elaborate ways I could send hidden messages. The main reason I'm asking is because if I were to use a near unbreakable code that literally one person in the world other then myself would have access to the deciphering tools or passphrases needed to crack it that someone would just show up with knowledge of the translation because they are an expert "Code Breaker" or was to have "Found and interrogated the person the message was for" kind of thing (Tho to be honest detecting this kind of meta-gaming would be an extremely simple endeavor). I also enjoy the mystery and confusion that encoded messages can create and the thrill and reward of actually working hard to break a code.

Share this post


Link to post

You used to be able to, and this was one of my favorite things to do. It helped add intrigue and I had a few people actually crack my ciphers. The rule change went into effect awhile back. Getting around it by putting things in the English language but coded won't work. I tried. lol

Share this post


Link to post

It is no longer allowed, we used to be able to make really cool ciphers but it was cracked down. We had a poll up awhile ago, the encryption community on this server was very respectful. @Roland his reasoning for no longer allowing it though was simple: We cant see what you post so we cant allow it.

His secondary reasoning was if you want to send something private do it in a DM.
 

 

Share this post


Link to post

@TheLamp1 Red has the answer there OP. You can still make it fun by sending the message in private DM and hope your colleague can understand it.

Does these answers help your question?

Edited by andysuter

Share this post


Link to post

I see that kinda sucks and really cuts out a significant amount of things I could do. DMing it kinda cuts the whole meaning of it out as it might as well already be translated. would I be able to if I provided translation at the bottom or would i still run afoul of the rules?

Share this post


Link to post

yes, ive checked for you. You could radio the code in your secret language but then have the translation with 'hidden content' if people wanted to just read it rather than trying to decode it.

 

Share this post


Link to post

I guess that is a compromise I will have to live with. I believe all my questions I can think of in relation to this have been answered but to make sure I understand the method I need to use is 

"Sierra Echo X-ray Alfa Zulu Hotel Alfa Lima  Lima Romeo Quebec November Zulu Uniform"

Spoiler

The message translates to "How are you doing"

or do I need to include the steps needed to decipher the message as so

Spoiler

Using a Vigenere Cipher with the code word "lamp" one is capable of deciphering the message to be "Hello how are you doing"

 

and the translation unless someone reasonably could crack it would be meta knowledge?

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, TheLamp1 said:

I guess that is a compromise I will have to live with. I believe all my questions I can think of in relation to this have been answered but to make sure I understand the method I need to use is 

"Sierra Echo X-ray Alfa Zulu Hotel Alfa Lima  Lima Romeo Quebec November Zulu Uniform"

  Reveal hidden contents

The message translates to "How are you doing"

or do I need to include the steps needed to decipher the message as so

  Hide contents

Using a Vigenere Cipher with the code word "lamp" one is capable of deciphering the message to be "Hello how are you doing"

 

and the translation unless someone reasonably could crack it would be meta knowledge?

1st one, and yes it would be metagaming however there is no way to prove that, so its in all honesty it is not a convictable rulebreak

Share this post


Link to post

You would be surprised how easy of a situation I could create to prove that someone was metagaming using one time use decipher books which even the governments can't decipher without the actual paper used to encode it. using multiple layers upon layers of ciphering like if I were to stack the Vigenere Cipher several times over with different pass phrases then a message exponentially becomes more impossible to decipher for people the message isn't meant for even with a computer. without a computer it becomes a task in futility. I could send a message out meant only for myself and no one else with these guards in place i think I could reasonably prove that metagaming would have occurred in that situation. Tho truth be told i could talk numbers and statistics but I'm sure someone would try to come up with a "logical" reason as to know how I encrypted it.

Share this post


Link to post
54 minutes ago, TheLamp1 said:

You would be surprised how easy of a situation I could create to prove that someone was metagaming using one time use decipher books which even the governments can't decipher without the actual paper used to encode it. using multiple layers upon layers of ciphering like if I were to stack the Vigenere Cipher several times over with different pass phrases then a message exponentially becomes more impossible to decipher for people the message isn't meant for even with a computer. without a computer it becomes a task in futility. I could send a message out meant only for myself and no one else with these guards in place i think I could reasonably prove that metagaming would have occurred in that situation. Tho truth be told i could talk numbers and statistics but I'm sure someone would try to come up with a "logical" reason as to know how I encrypted it.

You are completely right. 

It's a stupid rule and it should be changed. 

Share this post


Link to post

Can't we do a compromise sort of like:

*Encrypted radio message*

//Translation sent to (insert GM/Mod here)

That way staff has the translation, knows who has it, and then eliminates potential MG?

The GM/Mod wouldn't even need to react to the message unless it is brought up. And then it is on file.

Edited by Duquesne

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, Duquesne said:

Can't we do a compromise sort of like:

*Encrypted radio message*

//Translation sent to (insert GM/Mod here)

That way staff has the translation, knows who has it, and then eliminates potential MG?

The GM/Mod wouldn't even need to react to the message unless it is brought up. And then it is on file.

 

To be completely honest with you, this doesn't really have much of a point.

 

The Radio Thread is to have IG communication, and to reach out to players not in your group.

 

Making a radio broadcast on an encrypted channel that only select people can decipher is something that should be done in a private discord that is 'encrypted'. 

 

If the goal is to have players actively engage in deciphering it to join your RP,  then put it in spoilers at the bottom of the post and have faith those that pretend to understand it actually deciphered it.

If the goal is to have private message for only your friends, don't put it on the radio forum section. 

Share this post


Link to post
20 minutes ago, Rover said:

 

To be completely honest with you, this doesn't really have much of a point.

 

The Radio Thread is to have IG communication, and to reach out to players not in your group.

 

Making a radio broadcast on an encrypted channel that only select people can decipher is something that should be done in a private discord that is 'encrypted'. 

 

If the goal is to have players actively engage in deciphering it to join your RP,  then put it in spoilers at the bottom of the post and have faith those that pretend to understand it actually deciphered it.

If the goal is to have private message for only your friends, don't put it on the radio forum section. 

I'm not advocating for a return to secured comms. But having people decipher codes is a whole dimension of roleplay that's completely free. Why limit it? 

Add some mystery and difficulty back for a change.

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, Major said:

I'm not advocating for a return to secured comms. But having people decipher codes is a whole dimension of roleplay that's completely free. Why limit it? 

Add some mystery and difficulty back for a change.

 

I'm not against removing the requirement to have a translation of code from the radio post rules. I quite liked the 'decode this message' thread that was posted.

 

I'm just against adding the layer of having staff manage the secret message to ensure people don't metagame it. At that point if you can't trust the community to roleplay only the scope of what their character would be able to figure out, and instead think they are going to 'cheat' to involve themselves in your code-games, you shouldn't bother doing it. This is of course under the current system, where you would be posting a translation in your post.

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, Rover said:

 

I'm not against removing the requirement to have a translation of code from the radio post rules. I quite liked the 'decode this message' thread that was posted.

 

I'm just against adding the layer of having staff manage the secret message to ensure people don't metagame it. At that point if you can't trust the community to roleplay only the scope of what their character would be able to figure out, and instead think they are going to 'cheat' to involve themselves in your code-games, you shouldn't bother doing it. This is of course under the current system, where you would be posting a translation in your post.

Agreed on the latter.

The entire idea of having a public secured comms is dumb. We have Discord for that. We should amend the rules to allow for number stations and such for, sniffs...quality hardcore roleplayers... 😉

Share this post


Link to post

My immersions is broken cause of this dumb poo rule. 

Share this post


Link to post

It isn't that I see the rule as bad and in fact I do see the necessity of it to prevent rule breaks and but I do see it being restrictive in relations to RP because we sometimes metagame whether we intend to or not like if I had trouble with a group and a ciphered message went out on their coms sometime after meeting them then I would be scratching my head wondering if the message was about me or if it was about something unrelated but if I knew the message was or wasn't in relation to me even OOC it would take away a significant bit of the urgency to try to find out the contents. On top of this cold war based spy rings would be a possibility and could create an atmosphere of unease and distrust that could become fun, to be honest. I know private coms are a thing and I see them as necessary but it is a nearly 0 impact on RP outside of me and the other recipient or our groups.

Edit: here is a link to create and decipher things in many different ciphers https://cryptii.com/

Edited by TheLamp1

Share this post


Link to post

Given my background that often relies on actual laws and at least roughly understanding the wording, methodology etc behind it (no, I'm not a lawyer), I thought it was perhaps interesting to throw up the rules again and perhaps begin a discussion that could be continued here or separated. Sorry, given the "dive into it", the post has to be of a certain length. If you wanted a TL;DR, it would roughly be "Please reconsider and opening up for certain message styles and thus RP content again, or aim for compromises." I'll post a subjective recap near the end of the post again though.

 

To make things easy, let's list the rules here completely before it turns into indirect guesswork. This post is merely considered a help to "pick the rules apart piece by piece" to see potential room for changes or improvements or to find out if it's even applicable to certain radio posts. Greyed out is what I think doesn't apply at all in the context of this thread, the rest what could potentially apply.

 

Quote

Welcome to the new forum section - Radio Chatter. Here we role play our characters outside of the game. Here are some simple rules to follow in order to keep this section nice and clean:

1. All post content must be strictly IC. No OOC content is allowed at all, even using "//" or similar tags. If you want to discuss the threads or posts from these forums OOC, use TeamSpeak or create a new thread in General Forums.

2. All messages must be in English or with provided accurate English translation. You cannot send encrypted data, video or anything else that isn't speech that can be transferred through a regular walkie talkie.

3. All DayZRP rules apply in this section, just as they would in game. So no meta- or powergaming etc.

4. Keep all your messages relevant and on topic. Content that is prohibited in radio chatter (including IC):

hate messages, overly hostile replies

radio warriors, provoking, taunting

replies that add nothing to the conversation, consist of just insults, laughter, mocking of others, memes, etc

5. All frequencies and messages are treated public and all players and characters can use the conversations as IC information later in game.

6. If someone is having a conversation and you're not involved be nice and don't interrupt it with useless remarks.

7. You will need to maintain 1 hour of play time per week in order to create or respond to a post on the Radio Chatter forum section.

 

Basic standpoint: Community members want to be able to use messages (again) that do not seem to make sense to a number of users because the content might seem "cryptic", in order to further roleplay. This was once a thing but prevented because "Staff needs to know what is posted because there could be rule breaks in obscure messages".

 

Like what? Basically we have a conflict of content freedom vs fearing rulebreaks in the radio section. If we first solely go by the rules above, what is encrypted data in that context anyway? That the formatting is technically encrypted (and decrypted), meaning that would perhaps then technically break the English only rule? Or does it refer to the meaning or word use? Because if we take this in a very wide way it would - have to - mean you cannot even beat around the bush in plain English? I get there can be a difference between what's written and what is enforced, too, but are we essentially asking or demanding that all radio calls have to be "honest" and "apparent" in regards to not just their language but content? Otherwise I could encrypt a message saying "John will not go to dinner today, he has to slaughter the lambs" or some crap like "The chair is against the wall." That's plain English but contextually, encrypted.

Do we allow this or not?

My point here is, how do we further define "encrypted" data? And can we not post obscure messages with English words?

 

23 hours ago, Empress Nino said:

Getting around it by putting things in the English language but coded won't work. I tried. lol

Even if we define encrypted in the strict sense, why is something like the quote not possible? Roland's reply to this topic below:

 

 

Recap?

Besides on that being a bit unsure how wide and far we define "encrypted" (is plain NATO alphabet already that? Technically, although it's easy for people to see through), the point I am getting here is a certain creative angle and factor (lo and behold we have some interesting minor side content for users by users) is removed out of the picture because people fear rule breaks in those messages? This equals to putting a fear of broken rules above additional user content that some might find joy in, and others might ignore. What would the issue here be from the perspective of staff?

 

Call to action

My summary is that some users would obviously like to be able to send certain message types so my "call to action" would be a compromise to please both sides. Go wider with the definition of "encrypted" if it's really tight or restrictive right now and have it be something that relies on English words, although also cryptic words or a collection of words. Make "some of this" possible while, if you want to, have the option or possibility that staff can inquire what the message means if they suspect a potential rule break.

 

The reason of this post?

I want to highlight again, as user of the community, that the purpose of this is simple. It's not to point at someone and blame them for suppression or whatever. It's to bring up a topic or stance and have it reconsidered for the potential betterment of the community. Laws and rules never stay static forever and now staff / owner can consider it again with arguments provided, and say "We change" or "It stays". Might suck if it stays, but then at least people tried again at a later time.

We see something, let's call it X (cryptic radio messages). If you look at the threads discussing this, it shows users who don't mind it, and specifically, users who find joy out of X. If you want to compare this community to a business, you might as well translate user to customer, in a way. It's restricted because the company (staff or the owner) fears rule breaks. The main idea is to find a working compromise to please more users of the community without giving staff a headache. This would better the community and please more people than right now.

 

That's the simple idea. To find a compromise or rephrased rule, or changed enforcement, to please more people without resulting in any actual downsides. At least I can't detected any. What rulebreaks do people fear from obscure IC radio messages?

 

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...