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Crimson_Tiger

Perma-DEATH

Perma-DEATH  

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Over on another community they have it set up when your character is killed by another player in a Hostile RP or PvP scenario, then your character is dead and gone for good. A whole new life and new memories. Hostile actions over there are far more planned out and over all better in terms of hostilities. 

So I'm curious to know, should we try to implement a rule or test is out, where if you are killed in a gun fight with another player, should your character be permanently killed? I've met players on this server whom have had the same character for YEARS and some for months. I understand that when a Lore Wipe happens character can return, and I'm fine with that. Maybe character wipes can occur ever 6 months or year where the Lore remains but dead old characters return like they are new. No old memories but just back. I don't know. 

What do y'all think? I'd like to hear it. I think having this rule tested out could put an end to the Stone Walling and make Hostile RP not go away but just over all better. More planned out and so memorable that people could desire it. NOTICE ME SENPAI! 

Or should we make executions more permanent and leave it at that? 

Thank you for your participation and ideas. It's really appreciated. 

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No forced permadeath, its always been voted no in this community and left up to the player when to have their character deceased.

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my personal opinion is that, Perma death adds more realism to rp because people wouldnt get into gunfights all willy nilly like they do now.  I come from servers that have perma death and its so fun and has more serious rp on this server there is defintley  good rp but theres a lot of pointless gunfights and hostilities the bad sometimes out ways the good. Now on the other hand perma death can be abused but then thats what admins are for if you get perma killed for little to no reason and you feel its invalid you can always report it.  I also get non perma because you wanna make the perfect story for ur character but with perma death ive had some great stories i had a character last for 9 months on a perma death server and it wasnt boring campfire rp he was apart of a lot of gunfights and wars and conflicts and he made it through. It would be really cool to see perma at some point but its unlikely.

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I do agree that something needs a change because it's been pretty stale lately but I doubt this would happen. 

 

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As someone that comes from a community that had perma death for pretty much anything and someone that has also played on the Red Zone and multiple other Rp servers with different rules. 

 

Plus side:

- Perma death can make gunfights more meaningful and make people think more about having one in the first place.

- It leads to characters that died in front of you, not returning and breaking your immersion  

- arguments can get dealt with and end

- some people play more realistic

-in a community that all wants serious RP and care for each others character's story and life, this is great

 

 

However  MINUS side:

-You would have to add a LOT of follow up rule to the perma death rule to make it fair so people don't just circumvent it

-Perma death only punishes the players that put a lot of effort into characters.

-People will rejoin the same group on new characters, their own brother, son, father... best friend... and just continue the same fight and story that way

-Large PvP groups will just add that same player after death on the new character and nothing has changed for their fights.

-People start making less meaningful characters cause they die anyways.

-considering over how tiny things people get executed and hardly anyone ever plays out repercussions of actually being a murderer of actually having killed another human being, why should someone stay dead? If the person that kills you doesn't play like anything scratched them... why should you be dead?

-characters that have long stories to tell become rare to none existent (Because fuck the effort for a shit meaningless death that has nothing to do with your own story and all just with the other persons backstory, because someone plays a serial killer or cannibal and ran into you.) 

-you would need to add more rules to when you can kill/execute people 

 

 

Now in general if you decided to become part of a firefight and died and had to Perma just to those firefight deaths:

-again people would circumvent and just create new characters rejoining the same pvp group and only those with characters that care to play out meeting and getting to know naturally get the punishment of death actually having an effect 

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No. RP leads to permadeath. If RP leading to execution is great and it was building up to that point for longer time, than you'll get the feeling - "Yup, this is it, time to permadeath". There shouldn't be a rule forcing people to permadeath. I do understand that in group conflicts people getting executed every other day may get boring but that problem shouldn't be solved by rules. It's a players common sense problem.

 

Edit: I agree with the minus side from the post above, especially copypasta characters that would be added straight away back to the group.

Edited by DerrickStorm

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I can only suggest, if you know a player doesn't perma anyways. do not lead the RP to an execution if you really want immersion, do not shoot them in the head or behead them. Punish them and send them off. You always have the option to say "You having to live with what you have done is a worse punishment, people often say there are things worse then death." be creative 😉

 

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I don't think forced perma-death will gain any traction on this community. @GreenySmiley already nailed it with the list of upsides and downsides and that latter list would definitely apply to this community if the ruling came to pass. People should retain the right to choose their own time to go, trying to force perma-death will be detrimental for the reasons stated above.

What I'd rather advocate for would be the fact that people should be actively encouraged (if not required, but that'd be nigh impossible to enforce) to roleplay out injuries. Start acting like human beings and not some super soldier that come back a couple of hours after being shot without so much as a indication of any lead entering their bodies. I know there's some people that do that already, but that leaves a sizable group that doesn't roleplay out having been shot, witnessing their friends die or any of the aftermath, instead shrugging it off and continuing like nothing happened.

But when it comes to perma-death, this community is not equipped to be able to deal nor agree with being forced into consequences. So I'm going to have to vote no on it.

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Would love to be able to PK some people. They start wars, keep talking shit, try and kill some of us and then we capture them and are like "nah fam not PKing". One of the most annoying shits ever. But there is no perfect rule to make it fair for everyone. Like you get execution rights pretty easy, so that means you can get PKed over one hostile interaction so it's a bit meh.

Edited by AndreyQ

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Voted no on both, only I will choose when it’s time for my character to vanish, if the RP is great and the execution is done right and fits the moment and lead up then yeah why not but if it’s some pointless 5 second robbery nope not a chance 

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Definitely need a way to counter the shit-talking after being killed, it happens a lot. People will have great story lines with someone then manage to execute him in great RP fashion to then just have them pop up on the radio thread talking shit. I think if you get executed by the same group / person three times you should be pk'd. 

Edited by Apollo
i dont know how to spell

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16 minutes ago, Apollo said:

Definitely need a way to counter the shit-talking after being killed, it happens a lot. People will have great story lines with someone then manage to execute him in great RP fashion to then just have them pop up on the radio thread talking shit. I think if you get executed by the same group / person three times you should be pk'd. 

As much as I enjoy consequence, this kind of rule would open up some easy rule-playing, as it would only take a bit of previous hostility for people to hunt the offender down relentlessly to get those three executions to PK. Since PK's are somewhat of a status symbol within this community at times, I feel it would leave roleplay being forced towards executions far too often without even bothering to explore different avenues or resolutions.

Though if a rule like that should be considered, I feel dying in a firefight multiple times within a certain timeframe should also lead to a PK. Say, three times in two days. This should also add more incentive for both the aggressors and defenders not to immediately initiate and/or not comply. But that rule would also be easily exploited because people will start initiating and causing trouble just to get the other person killed/kill a person several times.

To pull a quote from a community member in another thread. this is; "a community were a lot of people have beef with other members."

Adding any kind of rule where something can be forced through a certain amount of actions taken will inevitably lead to more beef and/or resentment and will be abused on a ooc level from all sides at some point.

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3 hours ago, GreenySmiley said:

As someone that comes from a community that had perma death for pretty much anything and someone that has also played on the Red Zone and multiple other Rp servers with different rules. 

 

Plus side:

- Perma death can make gunfights more meaningful and make people think more about having one in the first place.

- It leads to characters that died in front of you, not returning and breaking your immersion  

- arguments can get dealt with and end

- some people play more realistic

-in a community that all wants serious RP and care for each others character's story and life, this is great

 

 

However  MINUS side:

-You would have to add a LOT of follow up rule to the perma death rule to make it fair so people don't just circumvent it

-Perma death only punishes the players that put a lot of effort into characters.

-People will rejoin the same group on new characters, their own brother, son, father... best friend... and just continue the same fight and story that way

-Large PvP groups will just add that same player after death on the new character and nothing has changed for their fights.

-People start making less meaningful characters cause they die anyways.

-considering over how tiny things people get executed and hardly anyone ever plays out repercussions of actually being a murderer of actually having killed another human being, why should someone stay dead? If the person that kills you doesn't play like anything scratched them... why should you be dead?

-characters that have long stories to tell become rare to none existent (Because fuck the effort for a shit meaningless death that has nothing to do with your own story and all just with the other persons backstory, because someone plays a serial killer or cannibal and ran into you.) 

-you would need to add more rules to when you can kill/execute people 

 

 

Now in general if you decided to become part of a firefight and died and had to Perma just to those firefight deaths:

-again people would circumvent and just create new characters rejoining the same pvp group and only those with characters that care to play out meeting and getting to know naturally get the punishment of death actually having an effect 

That makes a lot of sense. Well thought out and well spoken. 

Well thanks for the feed back y'all. I appreciate it. 

Edited by Crimson_Tiger

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One day, I might actually want to PVP or fight back.  I would sure hate for that one day to be the forced end of my character.

Seriously, though, a core tenet at DayZRP is a character’s owner is the only one who decides when a character is PK’d.  Change that and you change DayZRP.  (The only exception is NVFL report verdicts carry a mandatory PK sentence.)

Many DayZRP members enjoy PVP and hostile RP.  They shouldn’t be forced to PK a character every time it dies to hostilities.

Edited by Mia

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Should more people PK as a result for their own actions to further storylines? Yes.
Should there be a rule to force people to PK under certain circumstances? No.

Why? Simple, perspectives differ. One might think to perm someone is justified while the permed person sees it differently. Thats all you need to create drama and salt, things that this community currently already has way to much. And who is to decide if a perm was justified? I think staff has already enough to do. *shrugs*

While I like the ideas of more PK's, a rule simply wouldnt work and a change in the mindset of many people so they face the results of their IC actions realisticly isnt to be expected anytime soon.

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My opinion is going against the grain here but I think if you get yourself into such an RP position that you get your head chopped off, or tied up against a tree and executed etc then it should be perma or shelf for a while. It makes zero IC sense to then reappear a day later as if nothing happened.

I was witness to an execution recently where for RP purposes we RP’d an execution and left the player with everything intact etc, only for that same player to then KOS a group member less than an hour later using defender rights. Perfectly within the rules but was just weird.

As soon as we give our characters RP consequences, including a fear of death, then the RP will improve.

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I’d hate the be forced by the rules into perma killing my character with how easy and plentiful people hand out “executions”. Personally - I play a character that is designed to lose, he’s not badass, can barely shoot and has never killed a person. But I was part of a group that had issues with another group, got held hostage when travelling alone and when demands weren’t met - I was executed. No other option and nothing I could do to change the outcome (believe me, I tried haha. Even offered to becomes a slave). I went into hiding for two weeks to figure out rp that would make sense - then returned with multiple wounds. However - I didn’t have to, that wasn’t in the rules and they didn’t ask PK perms - but it just felt weird.

Executions should be a big thing - they should tie stories and make a the victim feel satisfied too, forcing someone to end their thousand hour character due to an execution is a no no right now - with how frequent they are. No one would want to progress to large storylines.

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Every execution should result in a PK, your story is not yours alone, it is a bigger story involving all of us.

 

Much like in a D&D campaign, you do not control every aspect of your characters life, and you don't get to choose their death either, be reasonable and PK in a situaton where it makes sense and affects others.

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4 minutes ago, Ducky said:

Every execution should result in a PK, your story is not yours alone, it is a bigger story involving all of us.

 

Much like in a D&D campaign, you do not control every aspect of your characters life, and you don't get to choose their death either, be reasonable and PK in a situaton where it makes sense and affects others.

I fully agree with this. Too many players have done stuff for their character to be deserving of execution but refuse to perma because, reasons, and will come back to shit talk. That needs to stop. 

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As always, I'm coming in with a hard no on this.

 

Your character, your story. You and only you decide when it ends, unless staff intervenes due to NVFL.

 

With the way certain elements of this community operate, the second you put in a concrete way to perma-kill peoples characters there will be people that actively push and fight to get to this exact point. Also, if you know there is a chance of getting perma-killed you will never comply if you have even a slight inkling of an idea that the other party might have execution rights.

 

If your concern is with players never killing their characters when they should, then address those players and try to understand why they are the way they are. More then likely its due to OOC animosity, or the experience that 'The other side never PKs, why should I?'

Implementing a rule to get around this is a terrible idea. You should address the root of the problem which is lack of collaborative story telling, not force people into perma-killing.

 

This is the not the first time this discussion has come up. 🙂

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No. There is no perma-death here (except by choice) because the point of a role play server is *gasp* not actually to kill characters, it's to interact with them. And because if there WAS perma-death, half the server would go nuts doing everything possible to exploit the perma-death system then pay for 'amnesty'. 

 

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1 hour ago, Ducky said:

Every execution should result in a PK, your story is not yours alone, it is a bigger story involving all of us.

 

Much like in a D&D campaign, you do not control every aspect of your characters life, and you don't get to choose their death either, be reasonable and PK in a situation where it makes sense and affects others.

You're correct, we cannot control every aspect of our character's life.  But, we do get to control when our character permanently dies.  Don't force PK on the majority because of the actions of the minority.

 

 

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I get that people want to hang on to characters that they have spent months/years with but when it means those characters have no consequence of their actions then it just gets annoying. It even comes down to little things like having a perm scar that would affect a persons performance or ability. These soon get forgotten with only the most pro RP’rs carrying it on.

Being shot in the stomach at point blank range then 20 mins later youre running around as if nothing happened is just plain stupid.

Talking shit to people, then getting executed but miraculously and hour later your running around again, doing the same with someone else is just bad RP and people are allowed to get away with it as there is no consequence.

If we want proper NVFL then we need real consequences.

I bet if we made every death a perma we’d have a lot less pvp and people would talk more, but that’s kinda extreme.

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Forcing people to PK after every death is not a good option, in my opinion, and I can't think of a rule that could be implemented regarding PKs.

When there has been weeks or even months of conflict, community members should PK if it makes sense, because the story would actually move forward and affect others. However, from personal experience, people don't do this and at the moment, personally, the RP feels stale and has been so for a while. 

I think there is just a community divide between members, and groups trying to gain an edge over other groups, and that is what should be addressed. Although, hard to see a solution to this. 

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