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Blake

Regarding 2.3

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I mean 2.3 is working exactly as intended.

Problem is people are exploiting it all the time using it to basically say “Its them attacking us we didnt do anything”. They are relying on the rule rather than looking at their own IC actions to make that group attack them in the first place or dealing with their actions IC rather than running to staff stating they are being harassed.

2.3 is there to stop attacks that are continuous as in multiple times in a single day which lasts for several days in a row.

(Also anyone moaning and saying that the server has become too PVP focused clearly hasn’t been around for a long time. I remember the days of having 5 firefights a night but we wouldn’t claim 2.3 we would just deal with it ICly and make alliances to get backup when needed or stop the attacks)

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3 minutes ago, Apollo said:

 

Wasn't replying to you man. Was replying to Squillium 😉 

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12 minutes ago, Voodoo said:

I mean 2.3 is working exactly as intended.

Problem is people are exploiting it all the time using it to basically say “Its them attacking us we didnt do anything”. They are relying on the rule rather than looking at their own IC actions to make that group attack them in the first place or dealing with their actions IC rather than running to staff stating they are being harassed.

2.3 is there to stop attacks that are continuous as in multiple times in a single day which lasts for several days in a row.

(Also anyone moaning and saying that the server has become too PVP focused clearly hasn’t been around for a long time. I remember the days of having 5 firefights a night but we wouldn’t claim 2.3 we would just deal with it ICly and make alliances to get backup when needed or stop the attacks)

I get what you are saying here Voodoo, but is the rule working as intended if people are exploiting it? If it was working as intended it wouldn't be exploited in the first place (Or maybe not on the same scale) Maybe its the general mindset that needs to change. Also, I get that the rule will never be removed but a few fixes might be healthy. 

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12 minutes ago, Jackfish said:

Wasn't replying to you man. Was replying to Squillium 😉 

I'm aware, I responded to a part you said on your post and added more discussion 😉 

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Jackfish said:

I am a hostileRPers myself but removing this rule is not smart and will scare more campfire RPers away. Meaning we will be left with HostileRPers only.

I feel like this shouldn’t be a thing. People shouldn’t be afraid to play the game because they campfire rp and could get attacked 

40 minutes ago, Jackfish said:
40 minutes ago, Jackfish said:
40 minutes ago, Jackfish said:
40 minutes ago, Jackfish said:
Edited by Diamond
Wtf just happened

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If a 2.3 gets brought up in a conversation, you get stressed by it showing up in said conversation, you do hostile rp and pvp and then get worried... What can I say? You are most likely border lining the possible rulebreak.

Biggest problems usually are that, the hostile groups have thin skin, and some small shit talk gets them heated and on pvp mode. And the other side just keeping at this, talking shit and then getting hit on it. 

Most issues that I have witnessed are unreasonable demands. Sometimes the demands made, make no sense, and is quite big moment when hostilities ensue. Or making the revenge attack just because your people got shot the day after. Getting rp forward is important, but going to a compound and yelling "everyone in the compound, put your hands up or die", is quite bad and poor way of doing it,  because... It's a game. It's easier to fight and regear than talk and rp. 

Been there done that. And even if there are talks ic:ly and things go "well" it still might end up in firefight and ooc salt. But these things should be talked out in voice chat ooc with both parties if either side feels that things are not working out. For sakes of everyone and rp. 

The rule is working as intended. If you feel threathned by someone dropping 2.3 in conversation, I think it is time to look in the mirror.

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Just now, Blake said:

I get what you are saying here Voodoo, but is the rule working as intended if people are exploiting it? If it was working as intended it wouldn't be exploited in the first place (Or maybe not on the same scale) Maybe its the general mindset that needs to change. Also, I get that the rule will never be removed but a few fixes might be healthy. 

Community mindset wont change its why people still go on about campfire vs hostile

From my own POV here are examples:

1. Group attacks a settlement twice in the same night say within say 5 hours - that has a 2.3 case.

2. Group attacks a settlement on the monday it then attacks again on wednesday then on saturday - not 2.3 as rest was given between attacks.

I wont put names in here but ive heard certain people claim 2.3 against a group. Then all you see in streams or hear ingame yourself is them talking bad about that group IC. Basically its not 2.3 if you get attacked for your actions.

A group i was in once was getting this whole 2.3 thing against us. Funny thing is the people claiming 2.3 against us were the ones always initiating on us.

Id say keep 2.3 in the rules but whoever claims it, if that 2.3 case is deemed not guilty against the group/ individuals then the reporter gets a harsh ruleplay verdict against themselves and their whole group/groups/individuals involved in the claims.

We have Ruleplay as a punishment, in this case i think we can use it against the report owners which in turn will make people really think about their IC actions and focus more on RP on the server rather than OOC rules.

At the end of the day people really need to separate IC from OOC and just enjoy the ride. Thats what makes the servers so fun is because they are dynamic. One day you might speak your mind then later down the line it comes back to kick you in the teeth. Thats not 2.3 thats just not thinking before you say/act 

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4 minutes ago, Isaiah CortezPVE said:

The rule is working as intended. If you feel threathned by someone dropping 2.3 in conversation, I think it is time to look in the mirror.

I looked in the mirror and i look good.

People are out to get you on this forums and thats the truth, they will try to push for 2.3 reports or any kind because they dont like you on an ooc level. I agree with @Voodoo, if theres a 2.3 report and its verdicted to not be 2.3, the person reporting should get a harsh ruleplay verdict, so its not used as an ooc defense when someone loses a fight and wants to threaten others. if someone is to put up a 2.3 report I dont worry about the verdict but the negative attention it will get which ruins the reputation of members and the group. 

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8 minutes ago, Isaiah CortezPVE said:

If a 2.3 gets brought up in a conversation, you get stressed by it showing up in said conversation, you do hostile rp and pvp and then get worried... What can I say? You are most likely border lining the possible rulebreak.

Biggest problems usually are that, the hostile groups have thin skin, and some small shit talk gets them heated and on pvp mode. And the other side just keeping at this, talking shit and then getting hit on it. 

Most issues that I have witnessed are unreasonable demands. Sometimes the demands made, make no sense, and is quite big moment when hostilities ensue. Or making the revenge attack just because your people got shot the day after. Getting rp forward is important, but going to a compound and yelling "everyone in the compound, put your hands up or die", is quite bad and poor way of doing it,  because... It's a game. It's easier to fight and regear than talk and rp. 

Been there done that. And even if there are talks ic:ly and things go "well" it still might end up in firefight and ooc salt. But these things should be talked out in voice chat ooc with both parties if either side feels that things are not working out. For sakes of everyone and rp. 

The rule is working as intended. If you feel threathned by someone dropping 2.3 in conversation, I think it is time to look in the mirror.

I don't know if your reply was aimed at me or just people in general, but I am just gonna respond regarding the way I see it 😄 
So the whole "thin skin" thing, pretty debatable and overall subjective (Which is fine, it is a discussion after all) 

Regarding the unreasonable demands. I am guessing you are talking about, lets say, I walk up to a base with the boys and we start giving them impossible tasks to do, and if they don't we will attack. And yes, that would be overall autistic to do. But IMO, unreasonable demands barely plays a role regarding: "constantly attacking people and forcing them into submission" (But that is just based on what I have experienced. 

And at last, the thing you said about looking in the mirror, I just don't agree with. I could have the best IC reasons to attack the shit out of a group, but those two numbers won't let me. And overall I don't feel threatened by the 2.3 rule as a whole, I am more annoyed about the rule itself being used as a "You breached my safe space and I will use this rule to fuck with you, because I am allowed to do so" 

 

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I blame Batok for people bringing 2.3 up so much. Not saying that his report wasn’t valid. I wasn’t there for the situations and I honestly don’t remember the outcome of the report. But before that, it wasn’t even an idea in people’s heads. Before that, people would literally deal with shit in an ic way or just take their salt and take it out on the attackers later on ig. Simple. 2.3 has to be the stupidest rule. As blake said, it’s literally used for more blackmail than anything else. 

 

No flame towards Batok. No points plz. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Jackfish said:

Not many streamers play on here anymore because let's be honest, the RP is shit. 

That's pretty toxic and after playing in a few other communities in recent months I can assure you from any reasonable person's POV it's not true. If you're so unhappy than I suggest you go elsewhere. This attitude is what is driving people away from this community.

Edited by Squillium

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Squillium said:

That's pretty toxic and after playing in a few other communities in recent months I can assure you from any reasonable person's POV it's not true. If you're so unhappy than I suggest you go elsewhere.

 

I've been here since 2013 so I saw a ton of people come and go. Right now the RP standards are low. Very low. Why do you think so many great RPers left the community?

I am not going to argue about different communities because that will get me points.

 

But we are going off-topic. Lets keep it on-topic. 

 

EDIT (since you had to add it): "This attitude is what is driving people away from this community." Trust me buddy, its not this kind of attitude that drives people away from this community 😉 

Edited by Jackfish

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1 minute ago, Jackfish said:

I've been here since 2013 so I saw a ton of people come and go. Right now the RP standards are low. Very low. Why do you think so many great RPers left the community?

I am not going to argue about different communities because that will get me points.

 

But we are going off-topic. Lets keep it on-topic. 

Yea let's keep it on topic.

In 2016 when the rules were more lax and 2.3 wasn't a thing we at one point had 4 full servers. Now the server pop is going down when DayZ as a whole has gotten to it's highest point since 0.60 3 years ago. These rules push people away more people than "PVPers" ever will, and the current server pop shows it.

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The debate as pretty much just been the same for a while now and i seriously doubt another thread about it will do anything but props to @Blake for at least trying. 

The fact is that 2.3 has only done damage to the community and to roleplayers. As we have seen in 2.3 rulings it is based upon accusations. It's based upon feelings. Having rules that are based on feelings is not something that we should have since it pretty much leaves any 2.3 report open to interpretation. Leaving such a thing that open is very dangerous. 

There is also the punishment that is given to people who get 2.3'd twice. People on final warning get permabanned and the people who weren't on final warning (regardless of warning history) gets put on final warning. If being in a group with friends gets me on final warning again then so be it but it doesn't change the fact that this is a bad policy. 

Even with IC reasons to attack someone (they broke a deal, shit talk which should be considered NVFL since you would never shit talk people who has the authority over you, or they attacked you the day earlier and you want to retaliate) It still doesn't matter. 2.3 can still be possible even though the people reporting the 2.3 are the ones causing hostilities, this means that 2.3 is basically just an OOC weapon to get your way IC because your PVP skills ain't cutting it. 

I get it OK, you play a hero group and you want to save everyone, but to be a hero you know what you have to do? you have to kill the bad guys, and what does that mean? it means you need to be able to shoot them. Doing an accent and attitude is a big part yes but you have to be able to hold your own against the bad guys. Because groups can't hold their own the decide to use this 2.3 to get their way IC. This is a bad policy and should be looked over 

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2 minutes ago, NozzyRP said:

props to @Blake for at least trying

We gotta keep it rolling, right now the rule itself is forcing us, THE PEOPLE, into submission 😠
and i also got some beanz, so we all gucci.

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Only once have I felt the accusation of 2.3 was valid, I feel as it now it is more a tool of blackmail than of actual substance. In my honest opinion, if the rule is to be fixed it need not be fixed on the rule page but via implementation. Blackmail needs to be countered more effectively before we take an honest indepth look at the rule and whether or not it is flawed.

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk

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I'm never voting yes to getting rid of this rule so that the same people's who's idea of roleplay is "Comply to get RP" can attack me every hour. 

IDK why these threads keep popping up. There is an easy fix to coping with this rule:

Step 1: If you're not breaking this rule, don't worry about it being in effect.

Step 2: If someone is blackmailing you with this rule, re-read Step 1.

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Posted (edited)

I have yet to see a single report using 2.3. I've been on this server for a bit now. My group is raided nearly on a weekly bases. We barely have anything. We used to be attacked weekly or twice a week. Then we got attacked 3 times in one day and 2 days later we were raided. We could have used 2.3 but we didn't. So I say keep 2.3, it keeps the PvP and Hostile RPers in check. 

But I do agree that if base building was faster and cheaper and base destruction stayed as it is now, I think we would see less raiding and gear RP. 

I don't think it's fully the Hostile RPers. Although, I do believe, when you raid or kill the people you you have hostilities towards then you should have no RP reason to keep raiding or attacking that person or group. Its over. That chapter in the RP is done. Move on to other RP. But if they return for more, then have at it.

Edited by Crimson_Tiger
Grammer

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2 hours ago, BobbyKaloRP said:

I'm never voting yes to getting rid of this rule so that the same people's who's idea of roleplay is "Comply to get RP" can attack me every hour. 

 

????????????????????????? If people initiate on you and you want rp comply?????? Hello?

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2.3 sucks, people hide behind it to hide away from consequences. Get rid 

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There may be times when something of this nature may be necessary, but I do think that right now the rule, or at least the threat of the use of the rule is being misused by people in order to force people to stop IC actions with IC justification by using OOC means.

For those of you that want a TLDR:

You have people "acting" as other people, but no matter how hard they try, that "acting" isn't going to make them a better gun fighter IG, no matter how hardcore and badass character is in their mind.  Too many people want to always be the victorious Hero or villain and think that everything will be like this for them:

 

But in reality, when you run into someone or a group that is more "skilled" with the mechanics of the game (sometimes cause of those 3rd party Crosshair's right?), doesn't get ghost bullets and has better situational awareness and/or luck than you, then this is going to happen to you instead:

 

People then realize that they have talked shit/initiated on/tried to screw over the wrong people and that no matter how hard they try, they are going to lose firefights most of the time, even if they are starting them, so instead of it being dealt IC they go OOC and threaten one of these reports or start complaining to staff in the hopes that the big guy goes:

And then the reporting group can go back to shit-talking and initiating on people until the next group come around who will not put up with their IG actions, who will then be reminded what happened to the last group OOC so that their IG actions are then bent to the OOC will of those who have used (or most likely misused) the mighty 2.3 so the "victims" can continue being like this:

 

Now for some longer stuff:

This issue is not about "Campfire vs Hostile/PVP", it isn't exactly a secret that some "hostile" groups (in some cases those seen as "PVPers") have also been threatening others with 2.3, from what I have seen, largely due to constant or more often than not losses even though they have been the ones starting fights (either directly or indirectly), or people being mistaken for groups that have nothing to do with them.

This is an RP server, RP should take priority over PVP, but that does not mean that there should be no PVP or that YOUR RP exists in a vacuum and should therefore not be impacted by IC things that you may not agree with or have real consequences IG.  If we were to remove the PVP element we would be faced with people standing there constantly shit talking each other and taking each other hostage without having to worry about any consequence or danger from other people.

Constant attacks on a settlement and/or group (and by constant I mean multiple times a day, even 2 is probably pushing it without proper justification) should not really be happening as I think this is too disruptive and those in the settlement/group need to be given "breathing room".  That doesn't mean that they can be attacked once, go antagonize the attacking group later that day and then run back into their fortresses/hide away somewhere and think they are safe cause they can pull the "constant harassment" card.  If you pull the proverbial tigers tail, expect to be bitten and don't complain about it because you only have yourself to blame. This also means no shit talking on the "radio", not trying to initiate on the attackers members, not trying to get other groups to attack on your behalf etc etc.

People also need to be able to take their OOC pride out of the equation and realize that sometimes it is best to just admit you are the weaker party IG and bend to the other groups will, as long as it isn't something stupidly unreasonable such as "we want a barrel of 5.56 every day" or something that the weaker group has to spend hours IG doing.  Even if it is just a symbolic gesture that you don't really follow most of the time except when the "attacking" group is around, try and come to some kind of compromise.  Here the "Attackers also need to be mindful not to be complete asses with their demands.

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27 minutes ago, YungBrandonRP said:

????????????????????????? If people initiate on you and you want rp comply?????? Hello?

I'm glad you took the time to formulate a real response to my post.

If your idea of RP revolves around initiating on people and practically only RP'ing when someone complies, you're not helping to the overall RP of the server. You can RP without an initiation.

Nice talk 

 

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The issue here if rule 2.3 is deleted because of the people hiding behind it to try and get asway from consequences for their actions then we won't have a rule that actually protects those that are victims of said rule. When used in the correct way I think that rule 2.3 is a really good thing to have. Instead of deleting the rule altogether, we should have a rule that get's issued to those who report other people for 2.3 but it turns out that they're just salty OOC and they have clearly tried to use 2.3 as a blackmail mechanism to try and stop consequences happening for their actions. As for in character, people should try to find solutions to get the opposite party to leave them alone. At the end of the day, everyone is here to enjoy the RP and it's quite possible that one group doesn't enjoy fighting but the other does. In this case, they should try to sort out a deal in character to stop the attacks from occurring and if they can't come to an agreement in character, because the other side is shutting down all of their attempts, then they can chat to the opposite group out of character, in hopes of striking an agreement on how often the attacks are and ask for it to be toned down as they're not enjoying the RP. I do feel that people take these things OOC straight away, rather than trying to sort things out in character first, people should always try and fix things in character first and if every single option they offer the attacking side get's shut down, they can always try and chat OOCly about things as I stated in my previous sentence, rather than just throwing in the towel and shouting 2.3 from the rooftops. I think as a community, we need to do better from both sides and understand that not every type of RP is everyones cup of tea, we could do so much better in being understanding of each other's like and dislikes and we really need to start listen to one another, rather than just ignoring each other's requests and making the RP an experience that isn't fun for either party.

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Hm

 

Everyone that keep on saying that 2.3 are good.

 

You guys have prob not been told "IF U TOUCH US INGAME WE 2.3 YOU" its not fun when people blackmail you with a rule. And its even worse with that if i get 2.3 again and found guilty im gonna be night night and with how one sided the 2.3 report were last time its weird.

 

 

And everyone that keep on saying if you not guilty you are fine. Let me put it like this last 2.3 report hade no evidence and with the little evidence theygot we countered. But rolle decided to force archive our group and pk 20+ characters.

 

So yea thats why people dosent want a 2.3 on them

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