Regarding 2.3

[Blake 381]

Hey fellow roleplayers, back at it with a controversial topic.  
I decided to make this because I wanted to get some thoughts and overall different views on the 2.3 rule. First off I get it, eventually it would be mad annoying if the same people would be constantly under attack, but honestly, I just feel like the 2.3 rule is more used as a blackmail tool instead of it just being a rule in general. 

Perhaps the rule could be changed? I feel like the rule is being used more as a weapon nowadays. From what I have seen there have been numerous times where people have taken IC hostilities and made it into an OOC issue. In my eyes, the rule, in some instances are holding back roleplay. 

Since I am an overall beta-male and have been part of this community since 2013 I remember back when 2.3 was never talked about and the (sometimes) OOC salt was never an issue. I feel like most of the time when people attack settlements/groups there are often an IC reasoning behind this, yet when we attack (with a valid IC reason) 2.3 is always something that is in our minds. So I'm sitting here wondering, what changed? Have people just become too happy with their safe space?  

It's not like there has been an increase in PVP on the servers, there have always been PVP here and there always will be, yet as of right now it feels like when initiating a firefight I'm sitting back and shaking because I am overall afraid that the police will come after me. 

So to round this up, I get that it is necessary to make sure that this does not turn out to be a PVP server and that some people enjoy PVP more than others, but in my opinion it just feels like 2.3 is not working as intended and is overall just creating more OOC salt and issues. 

What do you guys think? Do you think the 2.3 rule is working as intended or is there room for improvements? 

Also, don't burn my house down for talking about this. 

Thx.  

 

 

[Eagle 2898]

2.3 is just the dumbest thing that exist if people do attacks every few hours sure it makes sense,  it should be talk shit get hit simple as that actions should have consequences.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Eagle

[Blake 381]

Just now, YNW Pep said:

I think base building is the problem tbh

Yeah, actually forgot to mention that, they are nice to have kinda, but I feel like things were a lot better back when they weren't a thing. 

[General Rickets 176]

The main issue I see with the rule is it is used by people who do not want to accept IC consequences for their actions. There has been multiple situations where we have been threatened with 2.3 alongside the report which was approved on The House where the whole point of those attacks were because of their actions ingame. I do not have any issue where people are legitimately being attacked for no reason other than PvP but when the other side has more than valid reason to, for example, hunt a certain group for their actions the rule should not be used as a blackmail tool nor should it be used as rule armour and to use it like this should be punishable with points. 

There are instances right now where people are threatening 2.3 reports against groups but are also actively shit talking them ingame as well as openly attacking them and advertising the fact they wish to eliminate them. When they win the fight they have no issue but as soon as they start to lose they cry 2.3. It makes zero incharacter sense at all for a group to just ignore these threats and actions but people hide behind the rule armour and blackmail to FORCE it to happen. 

With Legion at the moment we are forced to halt our RP and stop continuing our RP just because people cannot come to terms with their IC actions and don't like losing. The rule itself should be scrapped.

[Diamond 659]

The only reason that 2.3 is a thing is because of that one report I have seen where someone filed it. 

That started a wave of people using 2.3 to get other groups banned, archived or just as a blackmail tool to avoid owning up to IC decisions. 

I think the rule should be removed entirely because if you constantly get attacked you could always just surrender or negotiate. That’s my 2 cents. 

Tldr: 2.3 was never a thing until someone filed one that one time. Now it’s used to black mail people. 

[YungBrandonRP 0]

Since I've been back all I've heard is a certain group thinking their hot shit because of the support of another group and when that group gets attacked they cry 2.3 It makes no sense. How are you gonna think youre big and bad than when you get attacked you cry about it? Also take out bases. 

[Apollo 256]

I've heard the numbers 2&3 too many times now, people throw it around when things dont go their way. I get if they feel like its constant pressure on their settlements, but It annoys me when people would much talk about 2.3 and bring it up when the conversation about fights comes up. It's not the right way at all, if groups feel like they're being targeted then they probably are because of something they did ingame. The way people bring it up is subtle, theres a "possible" 2.3 report on your group because you gave them demands in game and tried to roleplay but they chose to not comply. 

2.3 is an unnecessary way to deal with situations, its not being used the right way but in a blackmail type. "Stop attacking us or we will 2.3" search up the definition of blackmail and that sentence fits can be used as an example of blackmail.

if its the base you are worried about getting constantly raided, i have a simple solution. Dont hide in/or have a base, bases cant move so people will always know where you are.

[BorisVC 0]

Eh 2.3 are a weird rule

 

Makes no sense and are used as a weapon against other groups that people have beef with

 

Rule needs a rework or be removed 

 

And especially after how the last 2.3 report went no one wants a 2.3 report on them. 

And as one of the people that have been in a 2.3 and found guilty without almost no evidence and no chance to defend myself in the report. The 2.3 weapon have just gotten worse 

Edited August 25, 2019 by WombatLover69

[nisbo 62]

2.3 is so people have protection against being constantly harassed by groups that just look for gunfights and nothing else. Good rule, wish we had it when we used to get attacked daily by the same group, seemed like the only interactions.

I remember some groups that the only time i had ever talked to anyone was them saying the initation

[Blake 381]

6 minutes ago, nisbo said:

gunfights and nothing else

How do you know though? Could it be possible that the people attacking have a valid IC reason? It's easy to say "yeah, they are just looking for pvp" and that's exactly the issue. 

[nisbo 62]

2 minutes ago, Blake said:

people attacking pvp and that's exactly the issue. 

How do i know when a group is wanting only pvp? well if i look back there was a group that we got attacked every night for around 3 months straight, and much more before i joined. As i said in my post there were some groups who i only heard speak when they initated and nothing else. If they didn't only want to pvp then they wouldn't have attacked us every night.

Rule 2.3 is there for a reason, If you think it may affect you then perhaps you should make sure you understand your reasons for doing things, make sure that you actually have a reason to carry out stuff.

And if your getting blackmailed then report that to staff, in most countries its illegal anyway.

[Kordruga 1312]

"2.3 is a weapon for campfire groups" is a little phrase being thrown around when it comes to this issue. It shouldn't be a defensive mechanism for those who can't fight back.

If you and your group are the losing side in an RP situation, you deal with it through RP. I've said this in every 2.3 thread but if you are being shit on by so called "PvP groups" because you fight back with PvP then that's on you. If you surrender and experience RP, 9/10 times you get progression and development no matter who the group is. I've been a member of both neutral, internal focused groups AND hostile, external focused groups. I've been shit on by bigger, stronger groups and never once even thought of 2.3. I dealt with it through RP, finding common ground and moving forward. 

Plenty of groups who threaten 2.3 claim to not have the ability to escape from the opposing group but never once mention the attempts at resolution and only mention how they lose in gunfights that they take part in because they can't set their egos aside and surrender. Don't take it OOC, don't cry and ask for a cease fire so you can farm some more weapons to repeat the process. Deal with it IC, suppress your protagonist syndrome, take the L and progress from it through RP.

The only time 2.3 should be used is if you're being attacked constantly, almost daily, with no way to resolve it. It literally mentions in the rule "Do not focus on PvP aspect of the game and attack everything that moves" so, if there is genuinely no RP involved and it is ONLY a straight up initiation dropped that is then followed by fighting, then report it.

To answer @Blake, I think the rule wording could do with being fleshed out so people can stop bending it to fit their situation. 

Edited August 25, 2019 by Kordruga

[William89 188]

The rule 2.3 has created a bad atmosphere OOCly.

There are way too many good RPers who have been permabanned from the server for reasons that I don't know. This creates the feeling that it is extremely easy to be permabanned. And, on top of that, we have rule 2.3, which is used to threaten whole groups of people.

The server is not at risk of becoming a PVP server, in my opinion. Rather the opposite. My opinion may be unpopular... but, when I joined the community, there were many firefights between the Saviors, the House, the Kamenici... I never participated, but I liked watching. It was dramatic and it brought a lot of RP. I miss that

Edited August 25, 2019 by William89

[Phoenix 3444]

1 hour ago, Blake said:

 

The difference between 2013 and 2019 is that nowadays 90% of the world population is overly sensitive and gets super offended as soon as someone even remotely busts their bubble. It's been getting worse and worse throughout the years. I personally ignore those kinda people.  

[William89 188]

39 minutes ago, Phoenix said:

90% of the world population is overly sensitive and gets super offended as soon as someone even remotely busts their bubble

That's EXACTLY the point. I admire how clearly you state this with so few words! XD!

Edited August 25, 2019 by William89

[Glitch 92]

I believe there is room for improvement. Maybe even just remove the rule. Many people argue for the side of realism in DayZRP. In a realistic scenario I BELIEVE if you're being dominated by a group you relocate, you avoid your camp becoming compromised, you keep it a secret. Because I BELIEVE in a realistic scenario in an apocalypse people will do as they please and wont stop unless they are stopped by another group, not by rules.

The rule states at the very beginning be a good sport. That is more so targeted towards the people carrying out the PvP and hostile actions but I think it equally applies to those being attacked. It's kind of common sense in a game like DayZRP. It's a gentlemen's game as they say. Be a good sport, don't use 2.3 as a blackmail tool if that is the case.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Glitch

[AndreyQ 2326]

47 minutes ago, Phoenix said:

The difference between 2013 and 2019 is that nowadays 90% of the world population is overly sensitive and gets super offended as soon as someone even remotely busts their bubble. It's been getting worse and worse throughout the years. I personally ignore those kinda people.  

People were just as sensitive back then. It's just that they didn't have a rule to threaten people when they lost firefights.

[Blake 381]

26 minutes ago, AndreyQ said:

It's just that they didn't have a rule to threaten people when they lost firefights.

I wasn't even sure if the rule was a thing back then, but that just shows that the rule itself is honestly dumb at it's current state. 

[Squillium 251]

Take out the rule. If you can’t stand getting into a fight semi-regularly in DayZ than RP in another game. If you’re not comfortable with how often you’re getting into hostilities it’s ok to sit back and go, “shit maybe this isn’t the game for my style of RP” instead of immediately trying to fix shit on the forums.

Another problem I see is more streamers coming around and getting their viewers to +1 everything they say so any kind of hate toward certain groups is multiplied.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Squillium

[OldSchool 1087]

1 hour ago, Squillium said:

Another problem I see is more streamers coming around and getting their viewers to +1 everything they say so any kind of hate toward certain groups is multiplied.

Kind of hypocritical to single out that specific group when we all know there's plenty of cliques that have been doing the same thing for years. Circlejerking is not the sole dominion of streamers. At least I know that when I get beans it's because someone agrees with my post, not because my whole friends list came to make me look good on teh intarwebz.

Edited August 25, 2019 by OldSchool

[Jackfish 1161]

1 hour ago, Squillium said:

Take out the rule. If you can’t stand getting into a fight semi-regularly in DayZ than RP in another game. If you’re not comfortable with how often you’re getting into hostilities it’s ok to sit back and go, “shit maybe this isn’t the game for my style of RP” instead of immediately trying to fix shit on the forums.

Another problem I see is more streamers coming around and getting their viewers to +1 everything they say so any kind of hate toward certain groups is multiplied.

 

I think removing the rule is the worst thing you can do. Imagine getting attacked non stop because hostile RPers are bored and you can't do anything against it. Because let's be honest, talking it out won't always work.

"If you’re not comfortable with how often you’re getting into hostilities it’s ok to sit back and go, “shit maybe this isn’t the game for my style of RP” instead of immediately trying to fix shit on the forums."

So let the HostileRPers do their thing and accept it? Seriously? I think alot of people are already thinking “shit maybe this isn’t the game community for my style of RP” that's why so many people are switching to different communities. And most of the time people are not immediately going to the forums. The people I know  went to the forums after getting attacked for a long time. 

Not many streamers play on here anymore because let's be honest, the RP is shit. 

I don't think its the streamers who always get +1's from their friends/fanbase. I think their are some other members of this community who always get beanz from their friends. 

 

I am a hostile RPer myself but removing this rule is not smart and will scare more campfire RPers away. Meaning we will be left with HostileRPers only. 

 

Edited August 25, 2019 by Jackfish

[Ducky 1420]

6 minutes ago, Jackfish said:

 

I think removing the rule is the worst thing you can do. Imagine getting attacked non stop because hostile RPers are bored and you can't do anything against it. Because let's be honest, talking it out won't always work.

"If you’re not comfortable with how often you’re getting into hostilities it’s ok to sit back and go, “shit maybe this isn’t the game for my style of RP” instead of immediately trying to fix shit on the forums."

So let the HostileRPers do their thing and accept it? Seriously? I think alot of people are already thinking “shit maybe this isn’t the game community for my style of RP” that's why so many people are switching to different communities. And most of the time people are not immediately going to the forums. The people I know  went to the forums after getting attacked for a long time. 

Not many streamers play on here anymore because let's be honest, the RP is shit. 

I don't think its the streamers who always get +1's from their friends/fanbase. I think their are some other members of this community who always get beanz from their friends. 

 

I am a hostileRPers myself but removing this rule is not smart and will scare more campfire RPers away. Meaning we will be left with HostileRPers only. 

 

We don't see eye to eye on a lot of things Jack, but I agree with you here.

Removing 2.3 will only make it easier for those who maliciously look for opportunities to get in firefights have an easier time.

 

I personally consider myself a Hostile Roleplayer, having been in several overly hostile groups like Zbor, Kameníci and so forth, but there has never been a god damn second where we actively went looking for a fight, and 2.3 is meant to make sure that, that never happens.

If you aren't actively going around looking for fights, you shouldn't be afraid of getting hit with 2.3, even if someone is threatening you with it.

 

As for the mention of The House lets not forget that they were found guilty of breaking 2.3, despite who disagrees with the ruling of that verdict.

[Apollo 256]

1 minute ago, Jackfish said:

I am a hostileRPers myself but removing this rule is not smart and will scare more campfire RPers away. Meaning we will be left with HostileRPers only. 

Not removing the rule as a whole, it should be used as a last resort and not brought up in conversations. It should be altered to not be used as a form of blackmailing into changing the roleplay provided. 

2.3 :  Remember that not many players will enjoy being constantly attacked, therefore you should not dominate other groups or players into submission to a point where they can no longer accomplish their regular role play or enjoy the game.

Roleplay can still continue if attacks are constant, but if people felt that it was too much and came up with a rule to protect them than so be it, but it should only be used in extreme situations where as the party is being raided/attacked constantly. 

One of the reasons that 2.3 is used by groups who stay in their base, then when the base is more known more people will go to said base and attack it because its a zombie apocalypse why wouldn't you raid a big ass base? 

I'd say dont have a big ass base because thats gonna attract a lot of people, if you want a base it should be hidden and away somewhere afar if you're worried about losing items you searched hours for then stash it on the side of debug because at the current state of the server if you have a base you will be a target because more so than not those who have walls will trash talk behind which will piss the people off which leads to an attack then the cycle continues. 

2.3 is new to me, it wasn't around when I played and its actually unfortunate to see a rule needed to protect people from attacks that could stem from very valid IC reasoning(s). Again, it should be altered to be used only in extreme situations, where it really does force people to not accomplish their regular roleplay, the attacks have no reasoning and are just constant pvp attacks.

[Voodoo 1312]

I mean 2.3 is working exactly as intended.

Problem is people are exploiting it all the time using it to basically say “Its them attacking us we didnt do anything”. They are relying on the rule rather than looking at their own IC actions to make that group attack them in the first place or dealing with their actions IC rather than running to staff stating they are being harassed.

2.3 is there to stop attacks that are continuous as in multiple times in a single day which lasts for several days in a row.

(Also anyone moaning and saying that the server has become too PVP focused clearly hasn’t been around for a long time. I remember the days of having 5 firefights a night but we wouldn’t claim 2.3 we would just deal with it ICly and make alliances to get backup when needed or stop the attacks)

[Jackfish 1161]

3 minutes ago, Apollo said:

 

Wasn't replying to you man. Was replying to Squillium