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Appeal: Unreasonable Demands of Hostage - 3 Days

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Link to the source of punishment (report/post): Report - Neglect of Hostage

Why the verdict is not fair: 

Our demands of the hostage were not Unreasonable. We had simply asked him several times to tell us what country he served for in which he responded with the same sentence over and over again not stating the country. He then also said "you'll find out soon" when we asked which lead us wanting to know more. Prior to him asking for water it was clearly said to him if he didn't answer the question he would be shot and killed, in which he still refused to answer however at no point did we kill him. He was shot as a warning. If we had wanted to just kill him, it would have been done before so the hostages life was indeed taken into account plus we wanted to provide roleplay to him even though we weren't received any valuable roleplay from his end. When he asked for water because he 'was a bit thirsty' we made the very simple and reasonable demand in my mind that said "Tell us what country you served for" as he stated rankings similar to military rankings. That was the only demand we made to him in which he continued to refuse up until him dying.

I'd also like to state that although it is in the responsibility of the hostage taker to make sure the hostage stays in good health i believe when it comes to thirst and hunger it is also the onus of the hostage to relay how thirsty/hungry they are. Hostage takers cannot feel the hunger and thirst of their hostages. Therefore saying "Im a bit thirsty" like the hostage did and in the manner he did, does not relay to us that he is desperately in need of water. At no point did he make it clear to us that he would pass out at all nor really need the water. Especially when he refused to continuously not answer a simple question It could have also been a tactic to slow us down in which we wanted to get into our compound safety first. He was especially quiet during most of the walk only saying the same few things over and over again. And with us having to repeat things over and over again to him because he seemed to be ignoring us or not pay attention the need to get him into a secure location was great. 

Additional statements/comments explaining your point of view: 

Breaking down the verdict a little in this section - purple will be what staff wrote in the verdict and blue will be my break down.

In this case, we did see a repeated pattern of assumptions made when it came to the health of the hostage and almost no attempts on figuring out the actual state of his hunger and thirst.

As stated above, all the hostage did was simply tell us "im a little thirsty" that is no way an indicator that he is about to die from dehydration. The way he talked and the way he continued to interact with us gave us an indication that he wasn't really that thirsty. If i was about to pass out from being dehydrated I wouldn't just continue to say the same thing over and over again and continue to talk perfectly normal with no hint that my health status is low. With the way he talked and the way he didn't meet the simple demand of answering who he served for that gave us the opinion that he truly did not need water right then and there. This shows he didn't have any value for his life because if he did he would have answered us or even continue to ask for water and make such comments to let us know that he truly needed water right then and there.

 but the Wolfpack members should have checked up on their hostage when he got handed to them, and even more so after he got shot by them.

After he was shot, he was bandaged by myself. During this time you can see him go through the different emotes, clearly going through the emote wheel. I assumed this was him attempting to make sure that he roleplayed out the shot correctly as once he was shot he was still walking fine. Because of this, there was no way for us to know that he was actually dehydrated truly. He also made no indication through his roleplay that the status of his health was anything but fine.

We do have the situation Where he has water on him, and he states he is thirsty.  Yes, maybe a bit short and a little unclear, but with how the hostage care rule is written at that point there should have been warning lamps flashing for the Wolfpack.

Short and unclear, as stated by staff. That's how it appeared to us as well. We had no other indication that he desperately needed water and again we made the simple demand to tell us who he served for in exchange for water (instead of us just shooting him like he told him prior to him asking for water and even after). There was no warning lamps because he didn't make it clear enough that he indeed needed water.

We do not feel that it's a proper way to use the hunger and thirst system as a way of execution/torture, as torture fine but at some point, it could have been done as emoted.

Emoting it out after seeing the hostage get shot and him having no reaction or being hit and having no reaction and/or being threatened with his life and having no reaction to that means we likely would have not gotten a reaction for emoting out him having no water. There would be no fear or desperation as there already wasn't provided to us.

Yes, we feel that its something that could make for good RP, having torture like this.  However, we see that as safer to be emoted out, and not using the game mechanics, as it runs the risk of shortening the RP, as it unfortunately did here.

Good torture rp yes. Safer way to emote it out? I don't believe this is fair to say. If someone valued their characters life, having the meters there only gives more of a reason why they should comply and meet demands in order to keep themselves alive. If the meters weren't there i'd say emoting would be fair. However the game mechanics in this scenario help provide a sense of desperation and panic in roleplay in my opinion. We had no intentions of shortening the roleplay, and had he of made it clear that he desperately needed water through roleplay or even if he // ooc'd it we would have given him the water.

What would you like to achieve with this appeal: Points and Ban Removed.

Also for staff to review Counter report

Our counter report was for: BadRP, NVFL, Lying in Report, Avoiding RP.

The only thing touched on was BadRP and tampering with evidence.

What could you have done better?: When the hostage was handed off to us, I could have asked if he needed any food and water. Or when the hostage asked and my group refused I could have given him water as not to use it as a form of tactic to get him to answer a simple question.

Edited by Phoenyxx
Needed to change some spelling and add a few sentences to make my point clear.

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After making many threats over the radio, ''Yakone Briggs'' is finally caught by the legion and escorted, down to the wolfpack by legion, at 02:22 of hunters clip he is asked, tell me what military you serve, and he repeats what he had been saying. Again he is asked at 02:40 what military or I will end you, again he repeats him self, at 07:10 he tells the group he is a bit thirsty, a bit, he is then told he will not receive water, until he answers the questions that have been asked of him, he refuses and dehydrates to death. NVFL will also be instated onto Drew for not using the food which was accessible to him and refusing to answer questions a ludicrous amount of times, that meaning that @Drew7822's character is now dead due to the NVFL punishment which will now be instated. 

Appeal accepted.

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