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Crimson_Tiger

Crates

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Ever since the crates were changed to no longer allow weapons in them and sea chests were too, I've noticed more Griefing reports. Since tents are now the go to storage unit, I fear more griefing will happen from people dumping stuff out of the tents just to have the tents. Giving more reports for staff to work on instead of enjoying the game. 

When i first arrived to this server, we had large crates, gun racks, and civilian tents and sleeping bags. I heard they were removed due to being unstable. But since I have arrived, the servers still crash often. Why is this happening? Why can we not get the large crates back or gun racks back? Is base building really that taxing on the server? Are crates that taxing? 

I want to discuss this in hopes we can come up with ideas to help server stability. 

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The crates were redone to counter hoarding and possibly increase performance, as there were multiple guns store it several bases over the whole map, causing newer players/people that looted to not find anything related to high grade. This server isn't all about weapons, sure. But hoarding does not solve anything, and frankly one does not need 30 high caliber automatic rifles to roleplay.

Lowering them also keeps smaller camps with only wooden boxes safer from raiding, so I think that the argument about more griefing reports is incorrect.

 

Actually. For the fun of it. It's been 5 days since the patch hit. Since then there has been 1 griefing report put up. In the 5 days prior to the patch (for even sample size) there was 5 reports.

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See what Hofer said.

 

Also, please view the results of those griefing reports mentioned.

 

With people less able to horde, they are less inclined to feel aggravated when their bases are inevitably raided.

 

Any player made item that has persistence is 'taxing' on the server. When you have thousands of them, more so. DayZ is buggy and glitchy to begin with, but certain things make it worse. In my opinion things are much better off with the crates gone.

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10 minutes ago, Hofer said:

This server isn't all about weapons, sure. But hoarding does not solve anything, and frankly one does not need 30 high caliber automatic rifles to roleplay.

Completely this

You don't need to collect every single automatic rifle you see so that it can be stored in a tent for months on end without ever being used.

If you want weapons to not be taken from a tent my advise is don't put walls around the tent and hide the tent in the middle of a forest with a camo net over it (believe me works a lot better than putting up walls that practically might aswell have a big neon light flashing with "weapons and loot in here")

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This is kinda a random aside to this whole thing, but if people didn't perceive them to be in danger of disappearing forever they wouldn't hoard them.

Just like it took the US government forever to convince Americans that the Banks were FDIC insured after the crash and that meant that people could deposit money without worrying about it going poof and therefore the bank could use for investments to get the economy going again. 

AKs shouldn't be hard to find, but it's also a shame that our loot economy is so fragile to the point where hoarding fucks it so badly. I'm not at all knowledgeable in this department but it feels kinda like slicing our proverbial foot off (in the sense that we get rid of features that are neat) instead of just cleaning the wound and stopping the infection by coming up with a more permanent solution.

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Well fair enough, hording is a problem. What about bringing back gun racks? What about bringing back civilian tents and large storage crates? Sleeping bags? Even if they can't hold weapons, 3 large crates holding a ton of canned food beats 60 crates holding 10 cans of food each. And since crates can not hold weapons anymore, I dont see a point in increasing the cost to manufacture them. Wouldnt it make sense to bring back large crates so people can make 2-4 large crates on average instead of 10-14?

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11 minutes ago, Major said:

This is kinda a random aside to this whole thing, but if people didn't perceive them to be in danger of disappearing forever they wouldn't hoard them.

Just like it took the US government forever to convince Americans that the Banks were FDIC insured after the crash and that meant that people could deposit money without worrying about it going poof and therefore the bank could use for investments to get the economy going again. 

AKs shouldn't be hard to find, but it's also a shame that our loot economy is so fragile to the point where hoarding fucks it so badly. I'm not at all knowledgeable in this department but it feels kinda like slicing our proverbial foot off (in the sense that we get rid of features that are neat) instead of just cleaning the wound and stopping the infection by coming up with a more permanent solution.

 

Basically there is a finite amount of each type of gun that will spawn. Hypothetically, lets say 30 M4's. The way it was explained to me is if a player has either of those M4's on their shoulders, or in their hands, it does not count against the limit of 30. Once a weapon is placed inside of a container (backpack, any form of clothing, a box, tent, etc) it is counted against the limit of 30. Once all 30 are spawned, no more spawn until they start getting reintroduced into the loot cycle again by being despawned.

 

The issue with the loot economy isn't anything to do with a system that is easy to change. Its a mentality in the community that needs to change, but its also one that is heavily ingrained in any gamer. "Grab the loot." If we doubled the M4 spawns to 60 it means that for the first day or two people would be finding them... Then they'd wind up eventually ferreted away into tents to rot. The issue was much more pronounced with crates being able to store guns as crates were dirt cheap to make and small, and some groups quite literally had hundreds of weapons stored in them. Short of removing the cap on weapons to begin with, which may have other stability/balance issues, any amount of guns will always wind up being squirreled away until the community changes its mindset to only carrying the guns they can fit on their person.

2 minutes ago, Crimson_Tiger said:

Well fair enough, hording is a problem. What about bringing back gun racks? What about bringing back civilian tents and large storage crates? Sleeping bags? Even if they can't hold weapons, 3 large crates holding a ton of canned food beats 60 crates holding 10 cans of food each. And since crates can not hold weapons anymore, I dont see a point in increasing the cost to manufacture them. Wouldnt it make sense to bring back large crates so people can make 2-4 large crates on average instead of 10-14?

 

Gun racks specifically were removed due to hoarding issues, if I recall. They made it far too easy to hoard weapons. This is one that I mourn, because I loved what they looked like. But also, as a player, I once walked into a room tucked away in an apartment complex and came across a dozen gun-racks loaded with military guns, M249, AWM, etc.

Crates were far too cheap to make, even without being able to hold guns. These are things that should not be early game for people, it should be 'end game'. It should cost a lot, it should be difficult, and it should mean something to have one.

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It would be great if there was no way to store guns, all the campfire/gear roleplayers have literally all the assault rifles for a small army, they store them away and never use them since you can't find them in there little hidey holes on the edge of the map. This is the main reason camps keep getting attacked and raided, cause we all know that the best way to find weapons is to go to where camps are, and then they cry about griefing and harassment rule.

Don't hoard shit and then maybe people will come to RP with you rather than raid you. Lets make this DayZRP and not DayZGearRP.

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Just now, Craig said:

It would be great if there was no way to store guns, all the campfire/gear roleplayers have literally all the assault rifles for a small army, they store them away and never use them since you can't find them in there little hidey holes on the edge of the map. This is the main reason camps keep getting attacked and raided, cause we all know that the best way to find weapons is to go to where camps are, and then they cry about griefing and harassment rule.

Don't hoard shit and then maybe people will come to RP with you rather than raid you. Lets make this DayZRP and not DayZGearRP.

Completely with you.

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Personally, I'm doing all I can to reduce hoarding in the group I am part of. We reduced our stock by 50% so far. We completely stopped collecting pistols and many other weapons. But are other groups doing this?

I'd like to see what was taken out, restored and the cost to build crates reduced. 

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Rifles can only be stored in tents now, this means more weapons are in circulation and ends up in a happy community, cause at least they will be able to find rifles if they look long enough.

Also, less performance drop because the object count on the server is reduced because less people will make crates since they wont use them to store rifles anymore or bury them.

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8 minutes ago, Ducky said:

Rifles can only be stored in tents now, this means more weapons are in circulation and ends up in a happy community, cause at least they will be able to find rifles if they look long enough.

Also, less performance drop because the object count on the server is reduced because less people will make crates since they wont use them to store rifles anymore or bury them.

What about bring back large crates so less smaller crates need to be made? 

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Just now, Crimson_Tiger said:

What about bring back large crates so less smaller crates need to be made? 

The big crate was made by Aeryes and was, excuse my french, not particularly well made.

Im sure ya boy @JimRP can create a larger crate that will look amazing using those new textures 😉 

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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, Rover said:

 

Basically there is a finite amount of each type of gun that will spawn. Hypothetically, lets say 30 M4's. The way it was explained to me is if a player has either of those M4's on their shoulders, or in their hands, it does not count against the limit of 30. Once a weapon is placed inside of a container (backpack, any form of clothing, a box, tent, etc) it is counted against the limit of 30. Once all 30 are spawned, no more spawn until they start getting reintroduced into the loot cycle again by being despawned.

 

The issue with the loot economy isn't anything to do with a system that is easy to change. Its a mentality in the community that needs to change, but its also one that is heavily ingrained in any gamer. "Grab the loot." If we doubled the M4 spawns to 60 it means that for the first day or two people would be finding them... Then they'd wind up eventually ferreted away into tents to rot. The issue was much more pronounced with crates being able to store guns as crates were dirt cheap to make and small, and some groups quite literally had hundreds of weapons stored in them. Short of removing the cap on weapons to begin with, which may have other stability/balance issues, any amount of guns will always wind up being squirreled away until the community changes its mindset to only carrying the guns they can fit on their person.

 

Gun racks specifically were removed due to hoarding issues, if I recall. They made it far too easy to hoard weapons. This is one that I mourn, because I loved what they looked like. But also, as a player, I once walked into a room tucked away in an apartment complex and came across a dozen gun-racks loaded with military guns, M249, AWM, etc.

Crates were far too cheap to make, even without being able to hold guns. These are things that should not be early game for people, it should be 'end game'. It should cost a lot, it should be difficult, and it should mean something to have one.

While I agree with almost everything you say on the matter,

 

It should also not be forgotten that one of the reason why the loot economy breaks is because DayzRP pushes the way the game handles loot in an entirely new direction.

Due to the rules hoarding is a lot easier, in normal Dayz lawless land even the hoarded weapons would get reintroduced due to constant raiding so the loot economy makes sense for that.

But with DayzRP we have an insane amount of players all carrying sometimes 3 to 4 guns and then they also all have camps and that was not what Bohemia had in mind when they developed the loot table system the way they did.

That is always the impression I got from it, truth be told.

Just wanted to add that.

Edited by RedSky

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57 minutes ago, Craig said:

It would be great if there was no way to store guns, all the campfire/gear roleplayers have literally all the assault rifles for a small army, they store them away and never use them since you can't find them in there little hidey holes on the edge of the map. This is the main reason camps keep getting attacked and raided, cause we all know that the best way to find weapons is to go to where camps are, and then they cry about griefing and harassment rule.

Don't hoard shit and then maybe people will come to RP with you rather than raid you. Lets make this DayZRP and not DayZGearRP.

church praise GIF

This is brilliantly written. Thank you. Could not agree more with this.

Roleplay, not gearplay!

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1 hour ago, Craig said:

It would be great if there was no way to store guns, all the campfire/gear roleplayers have literally all the assault rifles for a small army, they store them away and never use them since you can't find them in there little hidey holes on the edge of the map. This is the main reason camps keep getting attacked and raided, cause we all know that the best way to find weapons is to go to where camps are, and then they cry about griefing and harassment rule.

Don't hoard shit and then maybe people will come to RP with you rather than raid you. Lets make this DayZRP and not DayZGearRP.

^
Rifles that are in use will cycle through different users much faster than those stored away in a hole for months on end.

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1 hour ago, Craig said:

It would be great if there was no way to store guns, all the campfire/gear roleplayers have literally all the assault rifles for a small army, they store them away and never use them since you can't find them in there little hidey holes on the edge of the map. This is the main reason camps keep getting attacked and raided, cause we all know that the best way to find weapons is to go to where camps are, and then they cry about griefing and harassment rule.

Don't hoard shit and then maybe people will come to RP with you rather than raid you. Lets make this DayZRP and not DayZGearRP.

 

I don't agree with the tone of the message and the soft shots being taken at 'campfire' roleplayers, but the overall content is accurate. People get raided because they hoard, hard-stop. It is that simple.

 

16 minutes ago, RedSky said:

While I agree with almost everything you say on the matter,

 

It should also not be forgotten that one of the reason why the loot economy breaks is because DayzRP pushes the way the game handles loot in an entirely new direction.

Due to the rules hoarding is a lot easier, in normal Dayz lawless land even the hoarded weapons would get reintroduced due to constant raiding so the loot economy makes sense for that.

But with DayzRP we have an insane amount of players all carrying sometimes 3 to 4 guns and then they also all have camps and that was not what Bohemia had in mind when they developed the loot table system the way they did.

That is always the impression I got from it, truth be told.

Just wanted to add that.

You aren't wrong. I tend to ignore the DayZ world outside of DayZRP as I only played on other servers long enough to get my ten hours to get whitelisted, then I've quite literally never gone back. I only play on DayZRP, so I don't have a great understanding of what even is vanilla DayZ and its problems/quirks. 

 

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Guns! Guns! Guns! You get a gun! You get a gun AND you get a gun!

Somewhat I am still baffled about the discussion always going to guns. Someone has too many, some have too few. Usually it's that the campfire role players have too many of them, and hostile pvp:ers too little. And it's always about Automatic guns. No one ever bitches that they cant find a role play Mosin or Shotgun. "All the AK's and M4's are gone!!!!" And usually it's either a hostile group or a new player saying this. I truly hope that one day the discussion on the forums goes that "It's so god damn difficult to find ammo and food and medicine. Not forgetting the guns."

But once again this is a video game. And we are here to have fun. To some, it's fun to have loads of internal and external rp, go looting, trading, fighting and just "living" in the world we have here. And to some it's go shoot up a camp, take some fingers, ask for perms to PK and pew. And for 3rd the peeps that just go into bush, set up a tent and gather gear gear gear. 

But every time someone raids a base it's either 3 things they take. Storage, Guns or nails. Not specifically in that order. And 75% of the time it's offline raiding, because heck, why interact with people. Sometimes I wish someone would nick the god damn ibuprofein, charcoal tablets and 50 steaks we have for our group. But naah. Guns, storage and nails. Because the world of DayZRP is FULL of everything else. I spawn in, walk into city and am pretty much geared. Tadah. Except the dank roleplay FAL or M4. 

You can see where I am getting at here, on this response to this thread about Creates, turned into talk about guns and hoarding of guns. 

This is too easy for big groups to amass equipment, just because there is so much of it. I remember someone saying that 556 will be made more rare. Well, it is still most common ammo type after .45 acp. Or food? Easy. I spend 10 minutes in smallest town and leave with least 3 cans of food. Wildlife is easy to find, medical supplies are plenty. Only thing that is rare or uncommon are GUNS. And Guns are not really a requirement for RP, only pvp. End of story.

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4 minutes ago, Isaiah CortezPVE said:

Guns! Guns! Guns! You get a gun! You get a gun AND you get a gun!

Somewhat I am still baffled about the discussion always going to guns. Someone has too many, some have too few. Usually it's that the campfire role players have too many of them, and hostile pvp:ers too little. And it's always about Automatic guns. No one ever bitches that they cant find a role play Mosin or Shotgun. "All the AK's and M4's are gone!!!!" And usually it's either a hostile group or a new player saying this. I truly hope that one day the discussion on the forums goes that "It's so god damn difficult to find ammo and food and medicine. Not forgetting the guns."

But once again this is a video game. And we are here to have fun. To some, it's fun to have loads of internal and external rp, go looting, trading, fighting and just "living" in the world we have here. And to some it's go shoot up a camp, take some fingers, ask for perms to PK and pew. And for 3rd the peeps that just go into bush, set up a tent and gather gear gear gear. 

But every time someone raids a base it's either 3 things they take. Storage, Guns or nails. Not specifically in that order. And 75% of the time it's offline raiding, because heck, why interact with people. Sometimes I wish someone would nick the god damn ibuprofein, charcoal tablets and 50 steaks we have for our group. But naah. Guns, storage and nails. Because the world of DayZRP is FULL of everything else. I spawn in, walk into city and am pretty much geared. Tadah. Except the dank roleplay FAL or M4. 

You can see where I am getting at here, on this response to this thread about Creates, turned into talk about guns and hoarding of guns. 

This is too easy for big groups to amass equipment, just because there is so much of it. I remember someone saying that 556 will be made more rare. Well, it is still most common ammo type after .45 acp. Or food? Easy. I spend 10 minutes in smallest town and leave with least 3 cans of food. Wildlife is easy to find, medical supplies are plenty. Only thing that is rare or uncommon are GUNS. And Guns are not really a requirement for RP, only pvp. End of story.

I couldn't agree with you more. 

Although I love GUNS! I'd prefer more civilian weapons and old sub-machine guns over full fledged military rifles though.  

But the purpose of this topic isn't about guns. It's about storage. I would like the large crates and sleeping bags back most of all because less storage crates that hold more items is better for the server. If the large storage crate was brought back in, then this topic would be voided. The sleeping bags I think are just perfect for RP. I loved hauling one around back in the day. I miss those. Even thought they held the same space they took up in your inventory, I'd love to have one under my back-pack and lay it out at night. Especially if over crowding become a problem at bases and beds aren't common, you just roll out a sleeping bag and there you go. 

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Posted (edited)

I don't think there's been more griefing reports since the update, to be fair. The lack of proper means of storing guns will hopefully alleviate a little bit of the hoarding (though it will definitely not stop it as long as we still have the means to store them, because groups with access to enough manpower and time to find tents will inevitably start hoarding the same thing again).

The root of the problem is, as @Rover put it, the community's stance of "gots to have the loots". Everyone (myself including) is guilty of that to some degree due to our exposure to games in general. And as long as that attitude persists, there'll always be people hoarding, raiding and complaining about there not being guns to find for RP purposes (somehow the complaints are always about not being able to find fully automatic rifles however. There's barely any complaints about finding shotguns, pistols or bolt-actions. #Civiliangunsmatter).

And while I agree with @Craig on the fact that not having a way to store guns at all will definitely be a better bandaid to the hoarding problem, I don't agree with there magically being more roleplay coming from the non "campfire/gear" RPer side. In fact, I feel there'd be a drop in RP because it takes away the value of a base as a hub. And when the hostile groups already have all their RP rifles, what do they have left to go to the bases for other than hostility for the sake of hostility? This issue comes from both sides, not just one of the other.

In a ideal world, everything would be really hard to find. Guns, ammunition, food, protective clothing. That would put value on ANY item and not assault rifles/military equipment. But considering the current complaints with the loot table, making things even more scarce would end up with a lot of people frustrated/leaving, which is a equally bad outcome. All in all, this discussion/issue is something that won't go away anytime soon.

To end with, adding more storage options won't really add anything right now, because most people won't bother with containers that can't hold guns and as we've seen before, adding more containers capable of holding guns will only lead to a small portion of the server having a large chunk of the loot people care about.

Edited by Kenyi
Fixes

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4 minutes ago, Kenyi said:

I don't think there's been more griefing reports since the update, to be fair. The lack of proper means of storing guns will hopefully alleviate a little bit of the hoarding (though it will definitely not stop it as long as we still have the means to store them, because groups with access to enough manpower and time to find tents will inevitably start hoarding the same thing again).

The root of the problem is, as @Rover put it, the community's stance of "gots to have the loots". Everyone (myself including) is guilty of that to some degree due to our exposure to games in general. And as long as that attitude persists, there'll always be people hoarding, raiding and complaining about there not being guns to find for RP purposes (somehow the complaints are always about not being able to find fully automatic rifles however. There's barely any complaints about finding shotguns, pistols or bolt-actions. #Civiliangunsmatter).

And while I agree with @Craig on the fact that not having a way to store guns at all will definitely be a better bandaid to the hoarding problem, I don't agree with there magically being more roleplay coming from the non "campfire/gear" RPer side. In fact, I feel there'd be a drop in RP because it takes away the value of a base as a hub. And when the hostile groups already have all their RP rifles, what do they have left to go to the bases for other than hostility for the sake of hostility? This issue comes from both sides, not just one of the other.

In a ideal world, everything would be really hard to find. Guns, ammunition, food, protective clothing. That would put value on ANY item and not assault rifles/military equipment. But considering the current complaints with the loot table, making things even more scarce would end up with a lot of people frustrated/leaving, which is a equally bad outcome. All in all, this discussion/issue is something that won't go away anytime soon.

I agree, and I'm glad we are having it. #Civiliangunsmatter

I hope I can get some RP out of the big groups when ever I meet them. Instead of straight hostilities. 

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I don't get ya'll fascination with guns... like I found an AUG, a Scar, and a Socom yesterday... ran into someone who traded me another Scar for the Aug... gave 1 Scar to a friend, gave the other Scar to someone else... went back to doing the Lord's work with my trusty M4.  

Someone's got to give the dead mercy after all, not fair to leave their souls trapped in Limbo whilst their shells shamble the earth without rest.

You don't need a SAW to do the Lord's work, every bullet is a blessing, and every gun is a tool provided for the work of the righteous.

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