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Server time (UTC): 2019-11-14, 12:35
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Thinisede

KOS/RDM Lapotino Castle

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Server and location: S2, Lapotino castle

Approximate time and date of the incident (SERVER TIME): Between 11am and 12pm 

Your in game name: Max Garrick

Names of allies involved: @CocoMii

Name of suspect/s: @Goa

Friendly/Enemy vehicles involved (if any): 

Additional evidence? (video/screenshot): I do not have a screen shot but there was another man nearby his IGN is Tissy I believe but that is what people called him so i am unsure

Detailed description of the events: ME and Coco were at Lapotino Castle to loot we noticed that it was someones base and it was wide open, a few minuets later i hear footsteps so coco decided to check it out and was initiated on by the fellow who whiteness the incident, Unfortunately for him he did not know i was there so I counted initiated and he complied. we tied him up and threw away his radio. We were chatting for a good 30 minutes and then we decided to leave. we noticed there were cars there and we wanted to fix one up and take it for ourselves. Coco Started to drive the car when she was fired upon and killed with no initiation. There would have been no way that the guy who we captured contacted them as In game he had not said anything AND he didn't have his radio on him. Unfortunately I cannot supply evidence but the moderator @Rover Helped us out in the Help desk.

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Connection Logs:

09:49:20 | Player "Max Garrick" is connected
11:10:30 | Player "Max Garrick" has been disconnected

09:50:42 | Player "Erica Bailey" is connected
10:32:54 | Player "Erica Bailey" has been disconnected
10:34:37 | Player "Erica Bailey" is connected
12:10:52 | Player "Erica Bailey" has been disconnected

10:20:31 | Player "Mike Goa" is connected
10:39:53 | Player "Mike Goa" has been disconnected
13:46:58 | Player "Mike Goa" is connected

09:52:36 | Player "Artemiy Vedenin" is connected
11:03:06 | Player "Artemiy Vedenin" has been disconnected

Hit Logs:

10:36:22 | Player "Max Garrick" hit by Player "Mike Goa" with M4A1 from 80.5297 meters 
10:36:23 | Player "Max Garrick" hit by Player "Mike Goa" with M4A1 from 81.9767 meters 

10:32:26 | Player "Erica Bailey" hit by Player "Mike Goa" with M4A1 from 78.8701 meters 
10:32:27 | Player "Erica Bailey" hit by Player "Mike Goa" with M4A1 from 79.7585 meters 

Kill Logs:

10:36:22 | Player "Max Garrick" (DEAD) killed by Player "Mike Goa" with M4A1 from 80.5297 meters 

10:32:27 | Player "Erica Bailey" (DEAD) killed by Player "Mike Goa" with M4A1 from 79.7585 meters 

Chat Logs:

10:08:03 | Chat("Max Garrick"): *starts to wrigle the vest off him
10:11:26 | Chat("Max Garrick"): *keeps listening*
10:34:31 | Chat("Max Garrick"): //who ever that was that was KOS
10:34:53 | Chat("Max Garrick"): // doesnt matter
10:35:02 | Chat("Max Garrick"): // initiation should have occured first

10:21:59 | Chat("Erica Bailey"): // Its on s1
10:24:17 | Chat("Erica Bailey"): *Writes down her frequency on a piece of paper and hands it to the man* // CocoMii on the forums

10:08:24 | Chat("Artemiy Vedenin"): *doesn't show much resistance whatsoever*
10:09:55 | Chat("Artemiy Vedenin"): -
10:12:29 | Chat("Artemiy Vedenin"): **spits on the ground on his left side, away from the individuals**
10:24:42 | Chat("Artemiy Vedenin"): -
10:24:50 | Chat("Artemiy Vedenin"): *stuffs the paper in his jacket*
10:27:09 | Chat("Artemiy Vedenin"): *does his best to fake a laugh*
10:34:44 | Chat("Artemiy Vedenin"): //might've been from the conflict earlier

Calling in for POV's:

@Thinisede | Max Garrick | POSTED

@CocoMii | Erica Bailey | POSTED

@Goa | Mike Goa | POSTED

@sick | Artemiy Vedenin | POSTED

For their FULL and DETAILED POV's and any VIDEO EVIDENCE they have

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Posted (edited)

I'm not sure if there is a template for this answer, if there is, I apologize for the inconvenience.

 

Disclaimer: First of, I would like to say, that this matter could have been resolved on chat. I was contacted by Rover and I immediately offered my help to prevent extra work for everyone. We have a few reports on hold, one in fact about this people, and we have it on hold trying to sort things out before officially reporting them. We have yet to experience some sort of roleplay that makes some sense.

My POV:

Every morning I log on and check base status. This can be confirmed easily by logs. Today I woke up with an IC radio message on our discord, before this scenario that is being reported. The message was from @sick:

Screenshot_20190812-141800_Discord.jpg.266c53132de1168184b447e93a6af4c0.jpg

He went silent on discord and because I had no information prior to this, I decided to log on and check the damage. I had no idea if there were people inside. 

 

I log on, search the base, confirmed the raid, and went to one of our guard towers while more people would get on to help me secure the base again. By then, I realise I am actually closed inside said tower, not much else to do other than waiting. At this stage, Artemiy is silent and I am thinking he might have logged out. I go around crates and everything, unaware of this people's presence at all.

 

While on tower, I see my man unnarmed (against our internal rules) and apparently without any armor either. That immediately caught my attention. I could only see him as he was sitting apparently on his own. No enemies in sight.

 

Suddenly I hear our car engine going on. There are no more NATO with me, so I know it's not us. By then I could spot the second guy with his gun out, and I immediately understand that my man is being held hostage against his will (of course).

 

I got my sight on this man on the car waiting to see what he was up to. He turned revs up, started reversing, and he was leaving our base. We have an interior main gate with an airlock to the outter main gate. I waited for him to go through the first gate, driving our car away, during a hostage situation.

I shot the first guy (stolen vehicle driver) as he was performing a confirmed hostile action against my group. He is inside our car, inside our base, 2 meters away from my member being taken as hostage. By then the second guy approaches the car, hidding behind it, gun raised looking out for me trying to fight me. My man is still under danger, unnarmed, held hostage by his side. Confirming this hostility once more, I killed the second.

 

If any further information is required please let me know.

 

Thank you for your time.


Edit: 
I am sorry but I had to come here express my POV once again, after talking with them over voice. My words apparently got a bit twisted, and coming from someone who works dailly on speech analysis, I could tell the way this @CocoMii approached me, she wasn't looking for an open hearth conversation about what happened here. This is not the type of behaviour I consider healthy for a RP community. I was expecting people to be more interested in solving issues than creating extra.

So instead of going through the conversation we had, I just want to repeat what I tried to explain to them over voice:
 

4 Hostilities

Hostile actions are player interactions where you or your group members lives are threatened by other players, you are forced to do something against your will under threat of violence, someone is stealing from you, etc. For example, if someone is telling you to drop your weapon and put your hands up or else you will die, he is committing a hostile action against you. Hostile actions can often be very complicated involving multiple people and groups, which makes newcomers especially vulnerable to punishments for rule breaks in this category.

4.2 When your life is at risk or you are subjected to a hostile action by other players you are allowed to defend yourself. This is granted by two different "kill rights" that you can gain based on circumstances of the situation like which side caused the hostile situation and which side you are on.

If you are a defender - the one being initiated on or subjected to other hostile actions that threaten your life which you did not start or provoke - you are allowed to defend yourself by gaining  DEFENDER RIGHTSon the attackers. Defender rights allow you to kill attackers for 2 hours or until your character dies. Defender rights can be shared with anyone who you recently role played with as well as all your group members, if you are a part of an approved group.


They have explained to me over voice, that people get banned for not "initiating" over voice in a scenario like this. From my perspective, I was following the rules and I had no intention to break them. The reason why I don't consider this KOS, was because they were holding one of my man hostage, inside our base, stealing our car, weapons out... To me I was just clearly being victim of an attack.

Me and my group have been playing for 2 months. We are here to help people, have nice roleplay scenarious as a lore faction and it's literally impossible for us. We get attacked often, and so far, we have only left the bases behind instead of going out looking for people to kill. All our efforts so far have been towards helping people, helping newcomers, helping whoever needs it. We give away stuff, we help build... We get back night time raids. I understand they are part of the deal, but in my opinion, if you are base raiding, stealing and taking hostages, inside a groups base, the minimum to expect is people to be able to defend themselves. It's not like I got on and shot them. I got on, watched them for a while, as soon as I noticed further hostilities against us, I put an end to it. We have moved back all the way south, away from them, to stop their roleplayless attacks, and they put on their best efforts to keep on our trail, asking around for us, for some more night raid chill. I'm totally fine, but understand that we have been doing our best efforts to improve quality time for your community members, not the opposite. 

If getting me banned for something that is not expressed that clearly in the rules, is this groups goal. Im fine.
Our groups goal is to bring in some good roleplay moments, and we have been trying our best, and hopefully, we will keep trying our best.
Our group's average age is around 30. We are parents, business owners, husbands. We are not here for pvp.

Just for final clarification what's being said about what I said over voice isn't too accurate. I did mention the car issue, but most of all, I mentioned, a hostage situation inside my base, is an on-going action. There are clearly actions that have an end, and actions that are on-going. They made 0 efforts to hide the hostage, move away with him, and he was being taken hostage in front of me.. I didn't log in with any rights whatsover. I witnessed multiple hostilities towards me and my man before I engaged. My man gave me 0 information, so you can tell how obvious the situation was for both parties. Taking a hostage is something really serious and I considered it an on-going hostility as it was not over and I watched it for 10 minutes(inside my base, with my car being stolen meanwhile).

Defender rights can be shared with anyone who you recently role played with as well as all your group members, if you are a part of an approved group.

The moment I see my man being taken hostage inside my base, doesn't that give me rights to defend us? And since they also steal my car, from my base, to take my man with them, in front of me :s ... If I am wrong I apologize, tried my best and didn't act on this with pvp in mind.

Edited by Goa
fixed highlight

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Erica Bailey's POV:

Me and @Thinisede went to Lop castle as I had gotten some information there was a base there and when we arrived the gates was open so we just walked in and looked through everything. I went out first of the castle and then I spot a guy aiming a gun at me right away as he spots me and I put my hands up and asked what the hell he was doing and didnt want any trouble. @Thinisede went out of the castle and inisiated on him and he complied and I then tied him up right away and took his radio. After like maybe 40 min? of roleplay with him, one where I tried to tell him he cant just aim a gun like that and stuff and even offered him more friendly stuff. As I got the car going I tried backing up out of the gates I started taking shots in front of me and I got killed. Sadly I didnt record any of it.

I believe the guy who killed me logged in after the situation (and more closer to the end) and then killed me without inisiating.

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Update: @CocoMii@Thinisedeand @Goa Have been discussing this situation in public Public Room 1 in discord, we have been discussing what happened, @GoaIs claiming he had KOS rights due to the fact we were stealing his car, He didn't Initiate due to the fact we were stealing the car. The fact is we already Initiated meaning we can steal the car if we wish. He openly admitted that he logged in DURING the hostilities and that HE believes that he did not need to initiate as us stealing the car was enough for him.  We just need a clarification on what happens when a group member logs in during an already initiated hostile event.image.png.d5034ec892e74e4d910ac026174dee18.png

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My ingame name is Artemiy Vedenin and I'd hereby like to include my point of view in this situation. After a lengthy roleplay situation with other NATO members, most of them logged off whilst I remained on the server. Because I was the only one, I went looting to NWAF. As soon as I approached our base, I heard footsteps inside. I soon find out they're not members of my group, but they're strangers, thanks to gaining visibility on some of them. I then decide to back off and wait out until they leave, as my character was in huge headcount disadvantage. After backing off, I immediately broadcast a radio message through our IC discord frequency, informing my mates about the incident and calling for backup. Noone came, so I decided to go back on my own after some time. As I came back about twenty minutes later, I found the base empty. I scouted around, looked through the inside of the base for a while, and out of a sudden I spot @CocoMii running out of one of our stash towers. Out of reflex, with gun in hand, I take aim at her and make sure she isn't hostile. As soon as I find out she isn't, I lower my weapon and continue in a more friendly manner. A few seconds later, I'm being aimed at by her friend @Thinisede. I get captured and am held hostage. I get robbed of my weapons and valuable gear, including food, only left with my knife hidden in my assault boots. I try to calm the situation down as best as I can and get myself out of the restraints after acting very compliant. They proceed to ask whether this is my base numerous times, and I lie, trying to avoid any problems (specifically; I thought about the possibility of being tortured to gain access to the codelocks or similar). I get the feeling they caught me on my lie, thinking my replies weren't trustworthy enough. They catch sight of the cars and ironically ask: "So I guess if this isn't your base you wouldn't mind if we take these cars?". After this was said, I was almost certain they've called my bluff, clearly making fun of knowing this is my base. They start entering the car, repairing it and trying to steal it. After some time, out of a sudden, I hear shots coming from one of our towers, obviously being aimed to hit @Thinisede (as he was about to pass the interior gate towards the outer one). I immediately realize someone must've received my message and decided to help out. I remain neutral, lying to the captors about knowing who shot. After some time, they both get gunned down and I am freed.

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@Thinisede did you fire shots at Goa after he killed Coco?

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Just now, Voodoo said:

@Thinisede did you fire shots at Goa after he killed Coco?

I can go ahead and confirm that he did not. He had his weapon up on sight when I shot him. He was crouching around to engage me.

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Summary:
@Thinisede & @CocoMii Approach Lapotino castle where the NATO base is located, when they arrive the gates to the base are wide open and they proceed to enter the camp, a few minutes after entering the camp they come across @sick after a small conversation, @Thinisede initiates on @sick after this they begin questioning @sick asking him if this is his camp, he lies to the attackers telling them, this is not his camp, which they respond to this by telling him they will take the vehicles within the camp, if its not his camp then, the attackers then start to fix a car up to take after they fixed the car up, @CocoMii begins to drive the car out of the compound, where she is shot and killed by @Goa, after she is shot @Thinisede attempts to engage in a firefight with @Goa, but is also gunned down by @Goa.

Rulebreaks:
In this engagement @Goa logs in as the engagement has already begun, but as @Goa is a part of an approved group with @sick the defender rights which were gained by @sickpassed to all members of his approved group, this also includes if they are online or offline at the time of the initiation.

@Goa You engaged in a hostile action against @CocoMii & @Thinisede then proceeded to log out, under the 30-minute combat log timer.

Evidence:

Spoiler
7 hours ago, Saunders said:

Connection Logs:


09:49:20 | Player "Max Garrick" is connected
11:10:30 | Player "Max Garrick" has been disconnected

09:50:42 | Player "Erica Bailey" is connected
10:32:54 | Player "Erica Bailey" has been disconnected
10:34:37 | Player "Erica Bailey" is connected
12:10:52 | Player "Erica Bailey" has been disconnected

10:20:31 | Player "Mike Goa" is connected
10:39:53 | Player "Mike Goa" has been disconnected
13:46:58 | Player "Mike Goa" is connected

09:52:36 | Player "Artemiy Vedenin" is connected
11:03:06 | Player "Artemiy Vedenin" has been disconnected

Hit Logs:


10:36:22 | Player "Max Garrick" hit by Player "Mike Goa" with M4A1 from 80.5297 meters 
10:36:23 | Player "Max Garrick" hit by Player "Mike Goa" with M4A1 from 81.9767 meters 

10:32:26 | Player "Erica Bailey" hit by Player "Mike Goa" with M4A1 from 78.8701 meters 
10:32:27 | Player "Erica Bailey" hit by Player "Mike Goa" with M4A1 from 79.7585 meters 

Kill Logs:


10:36:22 | Player "Max Garrick" (DEAD) killed by Player "Mike Goa" with M4A1 from 80.5297 meters 

10:32:27 | Player "Erica Bailey" (DEAD) killed by Player "Mike Goa" with M4A1 from 79.7585 meters 

Chat Logs:


10:08:03 | Chat("Max Garrick"): *starts to wrigle the vest off him
10:11:26 | Chat("Max Garrick"): *keeps listening*
10:34:31 | Chat("Max Garrick"): //who ever that was that was KOS
10:34:53 | Chat("Max Garrick"): // doesnt matter
10:35:02 | Chat("Max Garrick"): // initiation should have occured first

10:21:59 | Chat("Erica Bailey"): // Its on s1
10:24:17 | Chat("Erica Bailey"): *Writes down her frequency on a piece of paper and hands it to the man* // CocoMii on the forums

10:08:24 | Chat("Artemiy Vedenin"): *doesn't show much resistance whatsoever*
10:09:55 | Chat("Artemiy Vedenin"): -
10:12:29 | Chat("Artemiy Vedenin"): **spits on the ground on his left side, away from the individuals**
10:24:42 | Chat("Artemiy Vedenin"): -
10:24:50 | Chat("Artemiy Vedenin"): *stuffs the paper in his jacket*
10:27:09 | Chat("Artemiy Vedenin"): *does his best to fake a laugh*
10:34:44 | Chat("Artemiy Vedenin"): //might've been from the conflict earlier

Calling in for POV's:

@Thinisede | Max Garrick | POSTED

@CocoMii | Erica Bailey | POSTED

@Goa | Mike Goa | POSTED

@sick | Artemiy Vedenin | POSTED

For their FULL and DETAILED POV's and any VIDEO EVIDENCE they have

 


Suggestions:
@Goa After engaging in hostilities with other individuals, you must wait at least 30 minutes before proceeding to log out.

Verdict:
@Goa - Invalid Kill - on sight - Not Guilty
@Goa - Combat logging (CL) - 3 day ban, 10 warning points


Signed @Realize & @Voodoo

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