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Griefing - Ban Appeal

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Posted (edited)

Link to the source of punishment (report/post):

Why the verdict is not fair:

I supposedly broke Rule 4.8 which states:

Quote

Griefing is act of damaging or destroying a player base, storage container, vehicles or their contents using OOC knowledge, ill intent or doing so without IC reasoning that is proportionate to the damage done.

The rule itself is not 100% clear. I posted a suggestion thread to have the rule amended to make it easier to understand, so it categorically states it's intention. The suggestion thread I posted sparked interesting debates, however the findings of this thread are that there are a lot of conflicting opinions from different members of the communtiy around the rule and the overall conclusion would be that not a soul could certainly say what was a rule break, and what wasn't. Therefore I find a 7 day ban and 10 warning points a little excessive for breaking a rule that nobody can agree on. What would have been a more fair judgement would have been to issue a verbal warning (as was issued with the other report of a similar nature).

Additional statements/comments explaining your point of view:

POINT ONE

The situation itself occoured because of hostilities with The Legion. They interrupted a raid we were carrying out on another compound and shot one of our men, we then decided to take the raid to their compound for a little 'lawful chastisement'. I went into their base (skipping out the boring details) and stole two of their tents, I was not interested in the contents; therefore I left the contents of the tent on the floor and got out of there.

As per the definition of the rules, I did NOT Damage or destroy any base items, storage containers, vehicles or contents of storage containers.

  • I didn't do anything with OOC Knowledge
  • I didn't do anything with malicious intent/ill-intent
  • I didn't do anything without IC Reasoning.

The rule doesn't state that if raiding, I must then clean up after myself. If it said anything anywhere near this - I wouldn't have left the items on the floor.

POINT TWO

A long ass time ago I reported someone for NVFL (this does have relevance, hang on) I approached them from the rear and had my gun against the back of their head. I said to him "Don't move or I'll blow you away". The first thing this person did was spin around and empty his clip into me. Obviously - I was pretty pissed therefore I reported him for NVFL.

The conclusion of the report stated that he was NOT-GUILTY of NVFL because he didn't die, I was told a NVFL violation can't be committed if they actually survived.

Therefore I ask - if the items were never destroyed, how can I be guilty of griefing? Because the rule states; Griefing is act of damaging or destroying a player base, storage container, vehicles or their contents. None of the items were damaged or destroyed. This was merely a misunderstanding that can be resolved with words of advice and a wording amendment on the rules.

What would you like to achieve with this appeal:

  • I would like for the rules to be amended so they are CLEAR for new and returning players. I would like the rules to clearly state what is and isn't permitted.
    • This would avoid people being banned/warned for something they TRULY didn't know was an issue.
  • I would like to be issued a verbal warning as I had received for the other report.
  • I would like for the ban/warning points to be removed.

What could you have done better?:

I took the advice from the Legion members, who said that it would have been better to plan the raid online, and to have a plan of attack and treat it more like a heist. Therefore if it happened again - I'd probably do it like that. However the reason I didn't? Is because we get offline raided and have our shit left all over the place on a daily basis - why should I treat people with dignity when others shit on our playstyle?

If the rules clearly stated that what I did was a violation (which they do not) then It wouldn't have ever happened. This was an unintended mistake, blown completely out of proportion.

I close with some quotes from community members;

Is it griefing?

On 8/10/2019 at 3:53 PM, Eagle said:

If I want only your barrel and you have loads of junk in it I will drop your shit on the floor I don't want or need.
Whole argument that I should clean up after myself is dumb and not griefing, It's only griefing if I empty the tents toss the tent aside and leave it to despawn.

 

On 8/10/2019 at 3:48 PM, Squillium said:

If I want a tent I’m gonna drop the random shit on the ground. If there’s a solid purpose to what you’re doing and it’s not just to piss people off I don’t see the problem. Honestly griefing should refer more to actual base building structures since those who report over tent contents being left on the ground seem to be more concerned with gear than anything else.

Yea no, the groups can either pick it up or get better base defenses.

 

On 8/10/2019 at 3:26 PM, Eagle said:

Would that mean I cannot steal a tent that was filled with food because I didn't clean up after myself?

 

On 8/10/2019 at 2:20 PM, Eagle said:

Simple answer no.
But just doing it for jokes yes.

 

1 hour ago, VikingHunter said:

What you have to consider is when you get smaller groups with less loot,

Let's think of it this way

A trio offline raid a duo's base in the middle of nowhere, they have one tent, a few barrels but everything is full to the brim, and you want the tent.

It's impossible to have the rule say you must find somewhere to store things dropped on the floor in a raid as not every base will have a place to put dropped items, and you're delusional if you think raiders are going to go get you more storage space because they took a tent.

If you were to empty a tent, pack it down, leave it on the floor with the items and leave with nothing, YES that is griefing. If what I've read is correct that's not what happened in this case. If you didn't want to lose your tents and the items inside: 

1) Have a consistent schedule of people online to guard

2) Make it harder for people to raid, it's easy to do this.

3) There's backlash to everything, try to not give people IC reasoning to attack you.

4) Don't store you're most valuable items in big ol' tents, then it won't be such a bother when you lose the tent and the items in side.

 

[EDIT] Addition: My first point was made because the rules don't only protect large groups who may have the space to move potentially dropped items, the rule has to protect everyone in some way.

 

 

26 minutes ago, VikingHunter said:

Yeah. It's a very circumstantial rule that isn't very clear.

Edited by Oscar Coates

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Additional point if I may on the topic of proportionality; which was the reason for the verdict. I'm being told that dropping the items on the floor was not proportionate to the IC Reasoning. The IC Reasoning was that The Legion shot and killed one of our group during an interrupted raid;

I would say that dumping a few items on the ground is barely punishment for taking a life. In the grand scheme of things; destroying items? That's criminal damage. Taking a life? That's murder.

The only thing out of proportion about all of this, is a 7 day ban for a few trash items that didn't even despawn ... all of which happened because someone was SHOT.

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A separate team of staff have reviewed the report and the points you have made have been heard and we still see this as griefing, the rules are as clear as they need to be when it comes to griefing, if you are miss interpreting them then you can use this report verdict as clarification on your confusion.

//Appeal denied.

Signed @Realize & @Derek Steel

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