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Server time (UTC): 2019-08-18, 10:11
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John Jameson

S1: Bad RP/ NVFL?

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Posted (edited)

Server and location: S1 Kabanino Trading Outpost

Approximate time and date of the incident (SERVER TIME): 08/06/2019 approx 0730

Your in game name: John Jameson

Names of allies involved: Winslow Smulders/Robbi Smulders/Dain Callis

Name of suspect/s: "fuck you" was the name given.

Friendly/Enemy vehicles involved (if any): none

Additional evidence? (video/screenshot): none

Detailed description of the events: 

So a little backstory prior to incident, I was told by a random stranger of the friendly trader base in Kabanino so thats where I headed by myself as my buddies were still not on. I arrived and had some good RP with some trading and it turned out really well. Was told by one of the "traders" that I'm welcome back anytime. While I was there one of the people who worked there was spewing n about some Irish fellas and how he does not like them. One of the traders told me that the guy was special and dont pay him no mind so I didnt. So skip ahead a few hours, I meet up with my buddies Robbi Smulders, Winslow Smulders and Dain Callis. We all gather what we have and head to the trader base to make some trades. Upon arrival we were met outside by 2 people one of which claimed to be with the traders but not confident enough to participate in any transactions without the others traders present. So we chalk it up as a bad timing thing and start planning our next move/adventure. We hang around the area for a little bit, maybe 5 minutes, to decide what to do next when a shot rings out of no where. Winslow said he heard someone say "what are yall doing" then the person fired a shot. With me already having that past interaction with the traders I figured I could maybe put the person at ease by letting him know that we were there to trade and meant no harm. Keep in mind this whole time we could not see the person that fired the shot and was talking to him through a wall at the outpost. I asked whoever it was what his name is in an attempt to see if I could remember a name from the last trip to the outpost to which the person identified himself as "fuck you." I spoke to my buddies and told them that this may possibly be the person that is "special" that was pointed out to me and that we should just leave the area and speak to one of the leaders tomorrow about the person firing a random shot at us out of no where. This was our attempt at some RP rather than just going straight into a shootout with someone who just randomly shot at us without dialogue. We spoke in-character out loud each other and said were just going to leave the area. As we were walking away we hear the guy say "how about all of you put your hands up." My issue with this is there was four of us and one of him, I mean the numbers game didnt make sense as far as him valuing his life. Another issue is we never could actually see the person that was speaking to us. We straight told the guy to have a goodnight and began leaving the trading outpost. We get halfway up the apple orchard and a second shot rings out and i realize that this time he actually shot me. I bandage up and we have to fight off a small horde of zombies that got attracted because of the shot and yet we still decide its best to not stay and fight and maybe try to attempt some RP at a later date with a leader of this "trading outpost" to figure out who is trigger happy in the trader base. So we get even further out and we stop to discuss how fucked up the situation was how bad this person's RP was when another shot rings out and Winslow drops dead right next to me. This time we pull out guns and start throwing rounds down range towards the guy. Myself and Dain beat feet out of the danger zone while Robbi stays in a bush. I guess the guy somehow found Robbi and execute shot him right in the bush. Myslef and Dain decide its not worth it to go back and chalk it up as an L and hopefully RP with a leader of the outpost at a later date about the whole situation. The RP from whoever "fuck you" was toxic and arguably the worst RP I have encountered on this server. Who is employed as a trader, is immediately hostile towards traders, fires a shot without warning at traders, ID's himself as "fuck you", initiates on a group of 4, then proceeds to start shooting at them. Makes ZERO sense and maybe good RP for some of the other "RP" servers that I probably shouldnt mention but for "DayZRP" is was def not acceptable RP.  

 

Edit: Found this in another report and found it to be relevant to our current scenario considering we never even saw the guy before or even after he initiated on us. 

805d913f3971104763fb83dbe9149b0d.png

Edited by John Jameson
rule 4.1 added

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Connection Logs:

Spoiler

06:56:50 | Player "John Jameson" is connected
08:10:40 | Player "John Jameson" has been disconnected

07:27:56 | Player "Vali Kuznetsov" is connected
07:42:47 | Player "Vali Kuznetsov" has been disconnected
07:42:52 | Player "Vali Kuznetsov" is connected
08:07:13 | Player "Vali Kuznetsov" has been disconnected
08:07:19 | Player "Vali Kuznetsov" is connected
08:47:28 | Player "Vali Kuznetsov" has been disconnected

06:55:34 | Player "Winslow Smulders" is connected
- Dead -
07:35:55 | Player "Winslow Smulders" has been disconnected

06:56:12 | Player "Robbi Smulders" is connected
- Dead -
07:38:48 | Player "Robbi Smulders" has been disconnected

Hit Logs:

Spoiler

07:30:54 | Player "John Jameson" hit by Player "Vali Kuznetsov" with Mosin Nagant 1930 from 53.5233 meters 
07:35:17 | Player "Winslow Smulders" hit by Player "Vali Kuznetsov" with Mosin Nagant 1930 from 145.074 meters 
07:35:17 | Player "Winslow Smulders" hit by Player "Vali Kuznetsov" with Mosin Nagant 1930 from 145.074 meters 
07:37:48 | Player "Robbi Smulders" hit by Player "Vali Kuznetsov" with SKS 59/66 from 3.97189 meters 
07:37:48 | Player "Robbi Smulders" hit by Player "Vali Kuznetsov" with SKS 59/66 from 3.97189 meters 
07:37:48 | Player "Robbi Smulders" hit by Player "Vali Kuznetsov" with SKS 59/66 from 3.91895 meters 
07:37:48 | Player "Robbi Smulders" hit by Player "Vali Kuznetsov" with SKS 59/66 from 3.91895 meters 
07:37:48 | Player "Robbi Smulders" hit by Player "Vali Kuznetsov" with SKS 59/66 from 3.91895 meters 
07:37:48 | Player "Robbi Smulders" hit by Player "Vali Kuznetsov" with SKS 59/66 from 3.91895 meters 
07:37:49 | Player "Robbi Smulders" hit by Player "Vali Kuznetsov" with SKS 59/66 from 3.91584 meters 
07:37:49 | Player "Robbi Smulders" hit by Player "Vali Kuznetsov" with SKS 59/66 from 3.92103 meters 
07:37:49 | Player "Robbi Smulders" hit by Player "Vali Kuznetsov" with SKS 59/66 from 4.36231 meters 
07:37:49 | Player "Robbi Smulders" hit by Player "Vali Kuznetsov" with SKS 59/66 from 4.36231 meters 
07:37:49 | Player "Robbi Smulders" hit by Player "Vali Kuznetsov" with SKS 59/66 from 4.36231 meters 
07:37:49 | Player "Robbi Smulders" hit by Player "Vali Kuznetsov" with SKS 59/66 from 4.36231 meters 
07:37:49 | Player "Robbi Smulders" hit by Player "Vali Kuznetsov" with SKS 59/66 from 5.07193 meters 

Kill Logs:

Spoiler

07:35:17 | Player "Winslow Smulders" (DEAD) killed by Player "Vali Kuznetsov" with Mosin Nagant 1930 from 145.074 meters 
07:37:48 | Player "Robbi Smulders" (DEAD) killed by Player "Vali Kuznetsov" with SKS 59/66 from 3.91895 meters 

Calling in the following people to post their Point of Views & any video evidence they may have:
@John Jameson | John Jameson | OP
@HDragon | Vali Kuznetsov | POSTED
@iswearimjapanese | Winslow Smulders | POSTED
@Xilinara | Robbi Smulders | POSTED

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Posted (edited)

So basically last night I was raiding the traders piano house in Kab when I hear voices outside, they were a little passive aggressive and one of the men were being a bit rude. Since I was in a very defendable compound I decided to poke some remarks their way. One of the men kept trying to degrade my character's mental health and such so I said something along the lines of, I wouldn't be saying that if I were you. To which point some more comments were made towards me. I then initiated. The men simply said, see you later which is the point were I shot @John Jameson in the back as the 4 men casually strolled of to the south towards the apple fields. At this point they began sprinting and crested the south hill so I followed. For some reason they decided to stand in a circle in an open field at which point I shot Winslow Smulders then double tapped him for safe measures. I ran up to his body to upgrade my equipment from a shitty shotgun and mosin to a mosin and an SKS. I began chasing the other 2 men that were traveling south, they were about 100m in front of me. I run past a tree with low hanging branches and do a double take on a guy wearing a ghillie hood waiting for his moment. At this point I turn around and gas Robbi with my newly acquired SKS. I tried to follow the other 2 but lost sight so I returned to Kab to keep on raiding.
 

I'd like to counter report these lads for NVFL as they showed 0 hostile action at the time that I initiated as well as didn't comply.

Edited by HDragon

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If I am allowed to touch on his "counter report" for NVFL then I would like to. If not then please delete. NVFL is not even close to that encounter. It was 4v1 in which you had no shot while we were up close to that fence line. We attempted some good RP in the fact we assumed it was the drunk "special" guy that I had encountered earlier. Even if you had attempted to exit the compound you would have been gunned down almost immediately. We decided to let what we assumed the "special" guy continue on by himself and we were going to come back at a later time to talk to the leaders of the camp about it. Why on earth one guy would initiate on 4 heavily armed guys when all you have is a shotty and a mosin is beyond me. When we left the camp we were still under the impression it might have been a drunk trader in character to which we would not assume he would pursue 4 heavily armed men out into an open field. Thats why we stopped for a second to gather our thoughts and decide where to head to next, because anyone that values life would not pursue 4 heavily armed men. We decided not to engage because again, we thought it was a trader power tripping and we were going to just bring it up to the leader of the trade post and did not want to start a war with "friendly traders". We had good reason to assume it was a trader due to there being 2 of them outside before the engagement started. They did not mention there was a guy currently inside raiding at the time. 

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@iswearimjapanese and @Xilinara will both be temporarily banned until they provide their full, detailed POV's and any video evidence they have.

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There was absolutely NO roleplay from this guy. Toxic roleplay at best. The most roleplay he did was respond with "Fuck you". Now Im not being a sore loser. Everything lost can and will be replaced. But I cannot ignore the level of toxicity this guy showed. Id like to refer to the Fair play rule "2.3 Be a good sport. Do not focus on PvP aspect of the game and attack everything that moves just because you can or are good at it. Remember that not many players will enjoy being constantly attacked, therefore you should not dominate other groups or players into submission to a point where they can no longer accomplish their regular role play or enjoy the game." Immersion was officially broke when this lunatic started randomly shooting unprovoked. There was absolutely no reason to shoot at us. I don't expect much to come from this report because of the mention of video proof being needed but if I was the leader of the trade base that was "raided" I would definitely open a report for ghosting. I don't see how he got into the base past the 2 guards that were already there without it. He had a pretty hard time getting out even. But that's a report for another day.

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I would like to add to the whole ghosting thing. If you check the log. He logged in at 7:27 and shot me at 7:30. The front gate was locked. None of the walls were breached. 2 traders outside of the base when we arrived. So if he was there to "raid" the trader base, why is connection log at 7:27 logging in then shooting me within 3 minutes of logging in. That literally tells me he logged into the trader base aka ghosted and started raiding it. They have already said they dont know how they are getting hit and have been consistently for the last few days in a row. We were standing by the only entrance to the base. He logged in, initiated (invalid per rule 4.1), shot, killed, raided. Its plays like this that need to be noticed and action taken by those who can. Thank you for your time. 

 

Also: Robbi and Winslow get on kinda late, around 11pm central time just fyi. 

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As stated, our group of four made our way to do some friendly trading in Kab, we encountered 2 people letting us know the main traders were asleep so we parted ways. As we proceeded out, I heard some off noises followed by a gunshot. We proceeded to cautiously investigate with our weapons out. A man safely walled in the trader compound was speaking in a hostile manner when asked about the gunshot and if he was shooting at us. A very slurred "fuck you" came from the man safe behind his wall. So we thought, we'll let this man be. He had to be under the influence of something to be speaking to four armed men in that manner. He clearly didnt value his own life or certainly didnt show any kind of fear that would ensue a situation like that. We made our way slowly north as he could be heard behind the wall muttering obscenities. He then shot a series of shots in the air attracting zombies which when we were a distance away had to fight off. 

We made it a small ways away till I heard a snap and a round grazed my skull.

 

(Id happily take a death if it were over an actual initiation, not some drunk dude behind a wall.)

 

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After our group had concluded our business with the traders, we proceeded to scavenge the area, when we then heard a gunshot and ran up the road to find cover. We approached a lone man who was behind a fenced off area, and then left when the man was appearing to get agitated. As we began to make our way up the road, zombies had begun to swarm the 4 of us, which then resulted in us using firearms to kill them. During the fight John was shot by an unseen person, who we assumed was the same person from the compound. The group then hastily left the area, and as we were crossing the valley, Winslow was killed by a single gunshot when we stopped to decide where to go. John and Dain both ran for the tree line, while I stayed behind, hiding in the bushes waiting for an opportunity to recover any items from Winslow's corpse. while i was waiting in the bushes, an unidentified stranger passed in front of me and then killed me with a single gunshot.

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@iswearimjapanese @Xilinara your temp bans have been removed. Keep an eye on this report for further questioning.

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       It has been discovered that @HDragon "Vali" has video evidence that is currently being withheld. However, he has stated that there was personal info displayed on the screen prior to the engagement. If there is sensitive info I ask an admin determine if the video is allowed to be edited to not show said sensitive information. We would like for a determination to be postponed until the video is provided or deemed too sensitive due to compromising personal data. Thank you.
 

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I would like further logs pulled for my connection due to the ghosting counter-report. There should be a few more disconnects and reconnects in there. As shown in my video I was around for a lot more than 2 minutes before I shot the dude in the back with the mosin. In the logs it should also show that I was not in server 2 for any amount of time during the situation. I've been having terrible pings issues this past week and am still looking into it which is also shown in my VOD.

I also have some more evidence I reviewed in the form of a video. In the video my microphone is not heard at all due to me accidentally muting it on my recording software but since the OP and his boys said in their POVs that I did infant speak to them and initiate. After reviewing the evidence I have posted I would like to back up my counter-report for NVFL on the these guys. As heard you can see they clearly heard my initiation by responding with, "suck my dick" and "Have a great evening sir". At this point they started to walk off and reassured my initiation saying, "I'm serious you guys have 10 seconds". One of them then proceeded to say something along the lines of, "10 seconds my (?)". After I gave them a few seconds I see they still walking away and I am loosing LOS so I fire on one of the men and they still continue to leave town. Something I skipped over I want to revise is the way I ID'ed myself as "fuck you". At the point of them walking up I am unsure if they live at the base, are friends of those who live here, or are simply just passing by. But, I believe the bad outweighs the good and decide to be hostile with them as I am currently raiding a base. I have no obligation to correctly ID myself to some random people that I don't trust.

I would also like to add that today I spoke to these guys under the staff supervision on @Peril and they admitted that they believed I was a member of the trade group, who also had 2 members in the area they had just roleplayed with.. technically making the firefight a "3v4" in their eyes. Also in their POVs they stated that they "couldn't see who initiated on them" but when they were approaching the NW wall of the piano house they clearly saw over the wall and said "hey hey hey you, whats the problem man? how come you shootin? you said some shit then shot a shotgun in the air". This clearly shows that knew what I looked like, where I was, and in enough detail to know what weapon I was using at the time. 

Adding on some more.. I want to respond to the 2.3 stuff. This incident I don't feel is 2.3 worthy. These guys were constantly insulting my character and creating a unidentified threat in the area I was conducting some business in. Like I said before they can either live here, be friends of those that live here, or just be travelers. Due to the circumstances anyone that comes by and says my character is "special" and keeps insisting on it is not friendly to me. Especially when I tell them to put their hands up and they say, "suck my dick". I don't focus on the PvP but when my character feels threatened in any way he is going to deal with the threat at hand.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Not once in that video did anyone insult you. You clearly started shooting at us unprovoked. You videoed yourself doing exactly what we said you did. And I find it doubtful that you cut obs off while holding the f key. You were trigger happy from the start. From the moment you logged into their base and realized we were there you were getting into kill mode. And even after we left, YOU followed us with no regard to your characters well being and even admitted in the meeting that you were going to try and kill some of us. You clearly didn't have to follow us or shoot yet you use the excuse of "They said mean things so I snapped" WHEN NO INSULTS WERE SAID! 

"I was a member of the trade group, who also had 2 members in the area they had just roleplayed with.. technically making the firefight a "3v4" in their eyes." And this makes absolutely no sense. We never thought it was 3v4. We knew it was 4v1. Show the whole video.

 

Unrelated to the report it seems that there is a culture growing where everyone shoots first and asks questions later. In the house, you yelled put your hands up and before I could even comply your friend started shooting. I was given no chance to save my character at that point. Even though you admit to saying something to him and admitting it happened, it still happened. We are here to rp and if your idea of roleplay is shoot first and question later then that's going to cause problems. Its toxic and needs to stop.

Edited by Burnsalan20

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Posted (edited)

Are you saying that calling someone “special” and telling them to “suck my dick” is not insulting towards anyone? What what exactly is the OBS F key? I don’t run my audio through a traditional Windows setup as I use a software to route my cables to a multi-channel soundboard for live audio editing and audio splitting. I happen to also have multiple things hotkeyed. I needed up muting my mic to all recordings such as NVIDIA shadow play and OBS.

If you knew there were 2 “guards” outside the compound and there is one guy on the inside what makes you believe it is a 1v4 situation? Do you automatically assume that the man inside the trader base is a hostile who doesn’t live there? 

Edit: I have shown the whole video. If I had the parts where I JFK’ed your buddy and killed the other one then chased down the other 2. I would post it, trust me. 

 

I will also no longer be posting unless called on by staff or a verdict has been made.

Edited by HDragon

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Any audible obscenities came about only after the "fuck you". I think there was no intention of conducting rp on your part. As seen in the video, you were setting up for an easy shot to the back as soon as you could accomplish this. 

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Well none of us called you special. The traders called you special and we wanted nothing to do with it. And if anyone did say "Suck my dick" its because you said "Fuck you put your hands up". If anything we should have been pissed but we don't roleplay like that, cause we don't force our selves into violent encounters and purposely break the fair play rules mentioned above, you did, clearly stated in the video which you provided. And youre going to say you conveniently have personal info in your video right when it matters the most? I don't think so. And considering the 2 guards said no one was in the base, yes, we are going to automatically assume you are alone. Of all the minutes you said you had in video you only posted 7 minutes of it. Which surprisingly is important to describe your lack of care when roleplaying and anyone can see it. 

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Posted (edited)

Ok, a few things to touch on here.

1. You stated there was 20 minutes of video in discord to which @Peril. You only posted 7 minutes. As @iswearimjapanese stated, if there could be a mod look into that then that would be helpful.

2. 3v4? lol what? First of all they left the area completely approx 10 minutes prior to the engagement still making it 1v4. Also, my character knows that if it was that single trigger happy trader that was referred to then my character knows that the other 2 traders would not endorse his actions of firing upon "customers". 

3. You stated that your character became upset when I called him special. If you listen to the audio you hear me telling my guys "they said he was special". I clearly did not say you were I said others referred to you as special and then went on about we should leave you alone. We were not constantly insulting you or calling you special. It was said once then was I said he may be intoxicated because your guy sounded intoxicated and his actions did not seem rational at the time. So, no, insults were not thrown your way once. Heated argument maybe, but you fired a gun in the air. Even then we wanted to chalk it up to stupidity and leave. "I don't focus on the PvP but when my character feels threatened in any way he is going to deal with the threat at hand." Where is the threat in this video? We were leaving the town. There was no threat. 

4. Your still going on about NVFL on us. Where? At what point? You were cornered in a base and couldnt even get out. We stay close to the walls theres no shot. We run and turn the corner you have no shot. You stated your defense to NVFL was the fact you were in a base that would be hard to breach. But then you left those walls and pursued 4 armed men. So if your character was thinking the walls are my defense then why would he leave them? Plus you dont even have the video of you getting out of the base. There was a good 5 minutes before your got out of that base, I would say a logical person would assume that this group is now going to be posted up and is going to gun me down the second I leave these walls. For some reason your character seems fearless and thinks he cant take on a squad of guys. 

5. We were in that town for a good 15 minutes prior to this engagement and you stated you hopped a wall from the bench to get in. The benches were right where we were standing. Makes no sense. 

6. (Rule 4.1 All initiations and hostile actions as well as their demands and conditions must be made clear and unambiguous to all involved players. Hostile actions or initiations must be done personally and on specific targets who must be aware who the attacker is, for example they cannot be done remotely through radio or PA system.) None of us saw you. We heard you on the other side of the wall but could not see you. My character does not exploit 3rd person mechanics to look over walls as that would, in my opinion just be bad RP and ruin the immersion. 

7. (4.3 You shouldn't use defender or attacker rights in situations where it doesn't make in-character sense as it can be seen as rule play. In other words, obtaining kill rights alone does not give you explicit permission to use them any time you want and in all situations. Think about if using them to kill another character is viable in the current situation considering role play and In Character information) Just because you have kill rights does not mean you should actually go through with them. Where in this situation does it make sense to fire upon 4 guys? Would it not make more sense to go back and tell the boys and make it a point to find that group and deal with them when you have numbers? Instead you immediately went into kill mode. Why? What does this gain your character? Other than the high possibility of getting killed. 

8. A weak point but still a point (3.9 Do not impersonate another individual or group in a way that would bring harm to them, their group or their reputation.) You pretended to be a trader which is a big reason why we did not engage you even after the shots rang out as I previously stated. You stated 3v4 which if that is your point is a clear violation of 3.9. You pretended to be a group that is not usually hostile towards friendly outsiders. In character that would damage the traders reputation. 

 

Edited by John Jameson
grammar

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Of all the people I've come across in this server. I've never encountered something as toxic as what happened here. The final decision is up to staff of course and if they choose to do nothing that's also their choice. I don't want you banned but I would like for people to understand that this kind of roleplay is what destroys motive to actually roleplay. Why waste all that time to build your character for it to just die because of one trigger happy nut job, or someone who will just wait for you to log out to rob their base? I see no legitimate reason to try if this kind of roleplay is allowed to continue. The rules clearly state this. I will also end my part in this conversation because continuing to debate isn't helping anything.

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@HDragon I can understand abit of hostile banter and such for RP but why did you feel it necessary to drop an initiation in this situation? What was the RP reason especially as there were 4 guys.

 

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I felt it necessary due for a few reasons. The first one bring that these guys were creating a threat for my character. The threat is that they are going to return here later to talk to the leader of the camp about me. I’m not to set on the idea of the camp knowing it was me. Now if I can take them hostage and force their hand thru either beating them or laying out clear threats for the future I’m set. The intent is to create a threat to these boys, hopefully enough of one to stop them from wanting to go on with their original plan of coming back to tell the leader about this. The second reason being it puts my character in a rough spot to come here everyday to RP whilst having them know I just raided them. If I can try to avoid that I will.

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Summary:

@John Jameson heads to Kabanino with his allies @iswearimjapanese, @Xilinara and @Burnsalan20 to do some more trades with the traders that he had previously done trades with just hours before. Upon their arrival they are met by two people, one of which claimed to be with the traders but did not want to participate in any transactions at that time. Before leaving they spend five minute discussing what their next plan of action is going to be but they hear a gunshot and run over to investigate. Arriving at the location where they heard the gunshot they are met by @HDragon, they ask him what his name is and he replies with "fuck you". John Jameson then turns to his allies and states that he had been to this location earlier on in the day and was told by the trader that if they ever come back, they may meet an Irish man who is "special" and if he begins to talk down to them that they should just ignore him. There is a little back and forth between the parties before John Jameson tells his friends that they should leave but come back tomorrow and tell the traders how they had been treated by Hdragon. As they begin to walk away, @HDragon tells them that they have 10 seconds to put their hands up before they are killed, John Jameson and his allies ignore the request and begin to jog away from the situation, resulting in HDragon firing at them and hitting @John Jameson with his mozin. HDragon then begins to track them down and kills @iswearimjapanese and @Xilinara.

Explanation:

@John Jameson although he was in a 1v4 situation, he had protection from the wall and also didn't die. If a player takes part in a 1v4 and they win the fight, they can not be punished for having no value for their life. However, if a player was to take part in a 1v4 situation and die, they would be considered to have had no value for their life and subsequently would be punished. This is not the only thing that is taken into consideration though, the staff team look at how many numbers each side have, what kinds of objects there are for protection during a fight and what guns each side has before making a decision on whether the no value for life rule had been broken. With all of the above said, we deem @HDragon to have not broken the NVFL rule.

Moving onto the BadRP claims. You must remember that swearing and talking down to other players is completely acceptable as long as it's not done with the intention to just troll. With the video evidence provided to us missing HDragon's VOIP audio and each sides POV's stating different things, we cannot come to a clear conclusion on whether @HDragon provided BadRP, or not. With that said, we have no other option but to mark this is inconclusive.

@John Jameson for an initiation to be valid, it must be done personally and on specific targets who must be aware who the attacker is. In this situation you spend several minutes speaking with @HDragon and it's extremely clear that he is the only player within the walls of the compound, therefore you knew exactly who you were being initiated on by. The argument that you have made and backed up with Roland's comments only applies to initiations that are made via megaphones, as with megaphones it's hard to tell in which direction the initiation is coming from, whereas with normal VOIP you can. In addition, initiations have to be clear and unambiguous, which we have deemed to be the case here. You were given a clear demand and a clear consequence should you not comply, you proceed to choose not to comply and are hunted down and killed. With all of the above said, we have deemed the initiation to be valid, meaning that the kills that followed are also valid.

Outcome:

@HDragon - BADRP - INCONCLUSIVE

@HDragon - NVFL - NOT GUILTY

@HDragon - Invalid Initiation/Invalid Kill (roleplayed) - NOT GUILTY

Signed by @Saunders, @Derek Steel + @Realize

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