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AndreyQ

Kill rights being allowed to be used for execution

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So currently kill rights can not be used to execute someone. I disagree, as I think they should allow you to do so.

Lets take this scenario. A initiates on B. B then wants to take revenge and finds A. At this point he has 2 options, shoot A or initiate on A and RP with him. Problem about the second option is that if B takes A he can't execute him if he finds it necessarily.

By allowing kill rights to be used for executions, you are promoting more RP as people might want to take that person hostage instead of straight bang bang and actually make for an interesting encounter. That is the way they used to work before and it was fine. Would love some input, ty ty.

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+1 from me.

If you threaten to kill someone and find them, you basically have to ask for perms to execute if they haven't done anything to you. Would be cool to follow through on promises.

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+1

According to the rules it's fine to rock up an hour later and snipe them but not fine to provide actual RP and kill them as a result of their previous hostilities. 

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I agree with this suggestion. Both paths are viable but I shouldn't be afraid to make contact with someone who wronged me, even if its just to verify that they're the correct target, in case I get whacked with ruleplay for talking before shooting. Its nonsense.

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Little confused ANDDDRREEEYYY esplain 2 me like I'm 5;

Currently the Rules state you can use Kill Rights against someone who has killed you/participated directly in your death or death of your ally in the past once, you cannot threaten to murder someone you've never met then rock and gat them where they stand just because you threatened to kill them.

Say you and Kord were taken hostage by a bad man John Doe, and Kord was killed by John Doe in front of you. You, Andrey, were set free into the woods. You find Kord several towns over and tell him who shot him. You both have Kill Rights against John Doe. You can even take john Doe hostage AFTER the two hours and execute him for killing Kord in the past.

Rules say; 

A character that is taken hostage may be executed once for a hostile incident that happened in the past where the hostage was personally responsible for, or participated in a death of your ally. 

This is under Hostage section of the Rules. At least, that's how I interpret them unless I'm wrong someone pls clarify. 

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@Brayces What I mean is that I rob Kord. He comes back and instead of using his defender rights and killing me on the spot, he takes me hostage. He currently doesn't have any execution rights so he can not execute me. My suggestion is that people should be able to execute others if there are any active kill rights (attacker/defender).

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, AndreyQ said:

@Brayces What I mean is that I rob Kord. He comes back and instead of using his defender rights and killing me on the spot, he takes me hostage. He currently doesn't have any execution rights so he can not execute me. My suggestion is that people should be able to execute others if there are any active kill rights (attacker/defender).

As far as I was aware, a hostile action is a direct threat to your life/allies lives. So if you took Kord hostage gun to his face, said you would kill him if he tried anything and then set him off on his way after you were done. He has kill rights on you, doesn't he? Even after 2 hours later he can still use his Kill Rights from the hostile encounter to execute you once as long as he takes your hostage FIRST.

Or is threatening someone's life, robbing them and setting them free NOT a hostile action anymore? (<-- General question for everyone and not direct at you, Andrey) Because I always assumed it was. :S

I think we need Staff to define WHAT a "hostile incident" is according to the rules, is robbing someone at gunpoint a hostile incident? Or does the Hostage Taker need to punch your avatar in order for it to be a Hostile Incident?

Can another player execute someone for robbing them in the past as long as they take them hostage first, RP with them then execute them after the RP is done?

Edited by Brayces

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Posted (edited)

Let's look at a definition related to Kill Rights for a second.

22.PNG.56cbf67b14f73104b808a3f504c73fed.PNG

Currently you cannot necessary, explicitly use your kill rights in every circumstance you have, what circumstances there are and what they're limited to is entirely contextual in most cases. Now let's look at something that reinforces the OP:11.PNG.4dc8b21df33d910a497ac025db182400.PNG

Specifically 4.6 subsection A-E indicate that a hostage cannot be executed unless they in some way fall under these specific instances of non-compliance. However even if extensive history of hostility exists, if the hostage complies, you may not use your kill rights as I understand these rules. What Andrey is trying to convey is that you may use your kill rights to shoot somebody who initiated on you using defender rights, but should you take them hostage, you may not as long as they comply. 

Do I have that right? @AndreyQ & @Brayces

Edited by Baron

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1 minute ago, Brayces said:

Even after 2 hours later he can still use his Kill Rights from the hostile encounter to execute you once as long as he takes your hostage FIRST.

Used to be like this. Not anymore.

Reason why the thread.

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1 minute ago, Brayces said:

-snip-

Death of an ally is required to execute, as per 4.6, not just a hostile action.

Quote

A character that is taken hostage may be executed once for a hostile incident that happened in the past where the hostage was personally responsible for, or participated in a death of your ally.

Once my rights are up, I can't execute you after RP unless you killed an ally, even if it would make RP sense. Its pretty clear what's needed for an execution but I agree with Andrey, it should be expanded to include regular kill-rights, as long as it makes RP sense.

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1 minute ago, AndreyQ said:

Used to be like this. Not anymore.

Reason why the thread.

That verdict makes sense, Roland is stating that the victim in the Report was not DIRECTLY involved in prior hostile incidents which would allow for them to be executed during the Report's Hostage Encounter. (Mainly because the defending party could not describe the incidents in which the Hostage had directly participated in, that would grant them execution rights).

I think Roland is saying you have to know for SURE that the person you are taking hostage is directly involved or participated in a hostile incident which included you and your allies in order to be executed.

(At least I think so! Just trying to iron out what we're talking about here, because I'm with ya it's a little murky and even I'm confused.)

Just now, APositiveElmo said:

Death of an ally is required to execute, as per 4.6, not just a hostile action.

Once my rights are up, I can't execute you after RP unless you killed an ally, even if it would make RP sense. Its pretty clear what's needed for an execution but I agree with Andrey, it should be expanded to include regular kill-rights, as long as it makes RP sense.

I think I getcha both now.

I think hostile actions of any variety should be covered by Execution Rights if you take someone hostage as long as you know for sure that the person you have hostage was directly responsible for or participated in the hostile incident.

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Posted (edited)

I never understood why if I choose to roleplay with somebody instead of straight gassing them for robbing me it was now invalid. Surely it's better I do roleplay with him so he gets roleplay out of being killed rather than just being dropped? 

(+1 Andrey)

Edited by APositivePara

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I was actually thinking the same as a lot of you about "why should you NOT be allowed to kill them anymore after you gave them RP"?

Playing this through in my mind, if you end up executing them anyways, they will forget the encounter and it won't further their RP either way. 

For them it would be the same as a KOS, just that before they spend a few minutes humoring you. This scenario only furthers your story, to near the same outcome as a KOS, unless you use this to extract information from the person that they then are forced to forget they gave you. 

I can see the accusations of "Hey you ratted out your group" "Um I did what? I was on the beach that night" *Looks innocent with no memory*

so a plus +1 and minus -1 from me XD

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If it ain't a perma what's the point?

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I agree with this suggestion in it's entirety. If someone initiates on you, then you should have kill rights full stop. Whether you decide to RP with them and then execute, or if you decide to straight up KoS.

I prefer option 1. However there are people that wouldn't oblidge ^^

I'm not sure why this isn't a thing already?

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Posted (edited)

When you say "execution rights" you mean "PK rights"? (in this case I say -1)

Or execution is just to shoot (in the leg) and make people forget (after they respawn)? (then I say +1)

Edited by William89

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Posted (edited)

ye why not

 

It makes sense 

Then you can rp with them and then take thier head

It will maybe promote roleplay 

Edited by BorisRP

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15 hours ago, BorisRP said:

ye why not

 

It makes sense 

Then you can rp with them and then take thier head

It will maybe promote roleplay 

But they forget everything and wake up once more to have it repeated.

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14 minutes ago, Eagle said:

But they forget everything and wake up once more to have it repeated.

I would rather blast someone in the head as a consequence to their actions than set them free to go about their business. Not really a big deal Eagle.

PKs are a decision people have to make themselves which I am perfectly okay with. HOWEVER, NVFLing a situation after being caught red handed for your actions and not voluntarily PKing after being executed always gives me a sour taste. 

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On 8/1/2019 at 5:34 PM, Ryan Shepherd said:

I would rather blast someone in the head as a consequence to their actions than set them free to go about their business. Not really a big deal Eagle.

PKs are a decision people have to make themselves which I am perfectly okay with. HOWEVER, NVFLing a situation after being caught red handed for your actions and not voluntarily PKing after being executed always gives me a sour taste. 

I would too but it furthers nothing, then you meet the monkey two hours later ow what happened to you idk just woke up on the coast.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Eagle said:

But they forget everything and wake up once more to have it repeated.

Something remains, even if it is subconscious.

But a rule could be done to allow memory in some cases.

Or you can //I will force you to remember. *leaves a note in one of his pockets.

Edited by William89

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