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OpTempest

Initiation before raiding

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Posted (edited)

The title speaks for itself

Introduce a rule where a group/individual must initiate on a group/individual before raiding their base, thus removing the oppertunity for offline raiding.

I fully expect this suggestion to get a lot of flack, and I know exactly who the flack will come from but this is the reasoning for this suggestion. In the last 5 days, our base of a non-approved group attempting to RP and be neutral has been raided, every single day. Most of the raids have happened when ALL MEMBERS are OFFLINE. This results in ZERO RP for the raid itself, we don't know who did it which means we can't even RP with the group that did it; we are unable to defend it and finally we have to spend hours going out and looting to get the stuff back.

"Don't spend hours looting to get it back then" I hear you say ...

Our group primarily relies on having stuff in our base for us to be able to trade with. We are a group of traders attempting to set up a sancturary where people can come, trade, hang out and chill. What brings people to our compound(s) is that people can come and get food, drink, medical supplies and ammo.

"You sound like a bunch of sore losers" Says a bandit from the back of the room ...

We may sound like a bunch of sore losers, however - there is no WINNING for the raiders, when all they have to do is spend 7 minutes snapping a lock to take days of hard work. There should be some level of initiation to prevent this.

Where is the roleplay there?

I close with quotes from our group on discord

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GROUP MEMBER Today at 6:18 PM

yeah I get your point *redacted* .. but also we can never achieve our goal of being a trading group if we get raided every other day and end up just rebuilding and rebuilding our supplies over and over again 😕

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GROUP MEMBER Today at 3:16 PM

should we just move to a nicer area

GROUP MEMBER Today at 4:02 PM

to be honest i don't have the motivation to build a new base again

Quote

GROUP MEMBER Today at 1:48 PM

why is shit going down nearly everytime im off

Quote

GROUP MEMBER Today at 6:19 PM

thats true but i have like the feeling we always gonna be ppl the ar focused on us because we ar trading group with good loot

The floor ... is open.

 

Edited by Oscar Coates

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-1. You've got to do better at hiding your bases or have people on schedules to protect your gear, because as a survivor if I see a base that is unmanned temporarily, I'm looting it for supplies that I'd need.

Essentially... Do better at protecting what is yours, or your going to lose it regardless.

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Offline raiding will always be a thing and it's because you simply can't enforce it upon people. I usually get on pretty early due to timezones, so most bases that I come across are empty. It's unfortunate, as I'd actually love to be able to initiate for once but no one is there.

Also I don't get the whole "our stuff gets stolen" thing. When you make a base you literally make a sign saying "LOOT IS HERE". Like, you are asking to get robbed. You can have stashes that people will barely find. You just got to be smart about it.

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Nah bases should not have some special rule set for them if you can't defend it your lose.

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-1 
plan it better, log off with your valuable supplies or have a stash hidden somewhere thats not your main base.
I don't see the need to initiate to rob someone's base.
And people will still offline raid anyway, so whats the point?

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-1.

Rules crafted to protect your piles of loot are a no-no.

Stores are a common target for robberies due to their overall available and easy to access nature, if your base is easy to get inside consider that an invitation.

 

Additionally, if you truly want to hear community opinion consider adding a poll to the thread.

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I'd agree to a new ruleset for bases if only big groups could have bases, as long as they were used primarily as RP hubs. Anybody can build a base at the moment and use it to hoard their gear. Rules shouldn't protect your gear, better use of mechanics/manpower should.

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No.

 

This isn't rust, people need to let go and relax a little about their loot being stolen out of their base.

 

Stop leaving stuff in your base if you don't want it stolen. Log off with it, carry it, stash it outside the base/hidden.

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Honestly the amount of times I and others have said this is over the top.

Store the shit you want in another location, underground or log with it. Not everything you pick up in the game would be a necessity for you to survive. Carry what you can, the rest should be considered expendable.

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ya I didn’t even read this and it’s a no from me.

 

If you can’t set up defenses to obscure raiders to not raid when you’re not around, because you won’t be all the time, then it’s fair game.

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I both agree and disagree. Sadly our group had the misfortune of getting raided whilst not all that many of us were around- which is kinda shit (Especially for me as an European as you Americans keep raiding at 4-5 AM!) -BUT-. 1) It'll be very difficult to enforce on the GMs side. And 2) as has been suggested a bit further up from me- have a base with perhaps some basic survival gear and weapons. But keep the good stuff in a seperate hidden supply only known to those high ranking within the group.
 

tl;dr - I see your point, but I feel we just need to be more clever in our management.

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No.

I didn't read this either but I already know this is more hassle than it's worth. If you leave your base exposed, sucks to be you. This rule will make it virtually impossible to raid the camps of people who are on DayZRP purely for a non-KoS server.

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Considering the excessive hoarding ongoing on the server (600 wooden boxes just on S1!!!) offline raiding is a necessary evil to keep the loot circulating.

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No.

 

If you make a base and store your good shit and it gets taken while your not there then that sucks. I would Consider making Stashes throughout the map with a bit of loot in each one. Spreading your loot out works better than having it all in one spot.

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Main points I have to add, but I agree with some stuff here and it is what it is 🙂

  • We have several bases. It just so happens that today ALL THREE got hit while we were offline.
  • We have one base, purely for RP. There is no loot inside, so whoever raided it; snapped all the locks just to be a d*&k.
  • To those saying loot isn't needed to RP, it very much is - especailly for a trading group.
  • @Roland Nessessary evil. I actually think I do agree with this point. We don't horde loot, but I understand why you'd say it.
  • Our base was well protected. The one with the main loot in it especially. The way it was raided was someone JUMPED off a tower (around the same size as two electro hospitals) onto the roof of our base (half the size of electro hospital) and somehow survived? (Call that value for life) then they snapped a lock to get in.
    • Should this be reported?
    • I don't know.

Eitherway I value all of your input and I think there is a resounding conclusion to what I already knew would be an interestly controversial topic.

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Just now, Oscar Coates said:

Main points I have to add, but I agree with some stuff here and it is what it is 🙂

  • We have several bases. It just so happens that today ALL THREE got hit while we were offline. This sucks, but its not relevant to the topic.
  • We have one base, purely for RP. There is no loot inside, so whoever raided it; snapped all the locks just to be a d*&k. This may qualify as griefing. Or it may be a DayZ bug.
  • To those saying loot isn't needed to RP, it very much is - especailly for a trading group. Then log off with it in hand, or on your person. Base rules are not the solution, traders existed before base building did.
  • @Roland Nessessary evil. I actually think I do agree with this point. We don't horde loot, but I understand why you'd say it.
  • Our base was well protected. The one with the main loot in it especially. The way it was raided was someone JUMPED off a tower (around the same size as two electro hospitals) onto the roof of our base (half the size of electro hospital) and somehow survived? (Call that value for life) then they snapped a lock to get in.
    • Should this be reported? Do you have actual proof thats how and they didn't tower in? Players have been banned before for ridiculous jumps that they survived.
    • I don't know.

Eitherway I value all of your input and I think there is a resounding conclusion to what I already knew would be an interestly controversial topic.

 

Answers above in red.

 

This is a topic that has been asked and gone over numerous times in both the discord, and on the forum, since base building was implemented. Its a bit of a dead horse.

 

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Rover said:

-snip-

All of the downstairs locks were in tact. The only broken one was the door on the roof.

Also I did search for posts like this, but didn't find any - apologies for ressurection of topics.

Edited by Oscar Coates

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Posted (edited)

When DayZ brings back the ability to break your leg, we will start seeing realistic base building where raiding will be more of an effort. I've been offline raided too. Personally, I believe y'all should try and partner up with a large group to help y'all or offer a trade deal in exchange for protection. Just talk to groups OOC and IC and I'm confident most groups will understand your aim for Economic Role Play and will do what they can to help assure your RP style to the server. I heard that a large Trading RP group partnered with a bandit group so their stuff can be protected and they can RP inside a protected zone so they can have their RP. I had the pleasure of meeting this group and it was a very interesting place. 

Bandits will be bandits. Sadly most people like to RP as one. Again, I implore y'all to talk to a larger group OOC and explain your situation them and ask for help. Then RP it out and enjoy some interactions and see where the RP leads you. It could be a long friendship or betrayal. I can not say. 

In the end, I do understand where y'all are coming from and part of me agrees that there should be some initiation. It does drive RP and create lasting conflict that can lead to some very dramatic memorable RP. At the same time, it will cause a long term issue with gear hoarding. Roland mentioned the excessive chest storage and it can lead to performance issues, I assume. If this was a few years ago, I would agree with you completely. Part of me still agrees with you though. I believe that initiation should be encouraged over offline raiding. I also believe that it is considered valuing your life to wait until a group has left or all gone to sleep, until you raid it for what you need. 

Either way, best of luck! 

Edited by Crimson_Tiger

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20 hours ago, Roland said:

Considering the excessive hoarding ongoing on the server (600 wooden boxes just on S1!!!) offline raiding is a necessary evil to keep the loot circulating.

Holy shit! 600 wooden crates?

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On 7/31/2019 at 7:19 PM, Roland said:

Considering the excessive hoarding ongoing on the server (600 wooden boxes just on S1!!!)

Found some...

Spoiler

f17838b243.jpg

 

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Posted (edited)
On 8/1/2019 at 3:33 PM, Conor said:

Found some...

  Hide contents

f17838b243.jpg

 

Oof that's bad. If I was there, id be organizing the crap out of that room. I have to make that room look neat. Im coming over! I clean? 

Would gun racks be less taxing on the server than crates? 

Edited by Crimson_Tiger

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After some serious consideration, I have changed my opinion slightly on this. I believe the attacking group should communicate with the the people inside the base you plan to raid. The raiders need to make their intent clear and presence known. And if they desire, an alternative. The defenders must well. If no one is home, then free game. Otherwise, if you try to enter another persons base but do not communicate with the defenders, who should be communicating with the raiders, I think there should be rule against it. Raiders are the attackers. PERIOD. There needs to be more RP in a raid and they should take many hours, especially if your attacking force is being cut down. No amount of equipment is worth life. Offering a truce or negations or a cease fire to bury the dead or care for the wounded adds more human dynamic to a raid. If raiders just raid for the sake of raiding or gear, which many have done, then that should be against the rules. With out these RP dynamics, Raiding is just a PvP thing and not RP. More interactions and communication before, during, and after a raid makes raids more RP and less PvP. 

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I may be the odd duck here, but anytime I have broken into a base I always announce myself first. Even something as simple as "Knock Knock" while at the front door. I'd much rather spend 10 minutes worth of RP to butter them up and let me in than sitting there sawing a lock.

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If you cant defend your base then you should not have one.

I hate loot hoarding, but i can kinda see your point as a trader. Homever if you make this rule to protect bases while offline everyone else will use it too, and the loot hoarding will become 10x times worse.

I think the rules are good as they are now, no need to protect loot hoarding when its already a problem. -1

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I honestly don't see any need for additional rules in this regard. Simply out of the reason, that there is already enough loot hoarding on the server... just saw a base not that long ago, where I really asked myself what the fuck they are doing the whole day. Anyway, even in reallife you would need find ways to protect your stuff as a trader. Especially traders are often the target of people raiding them. Sure, here the problem of being offline exists, but still... there are ways.

Hide the base better, maybe try to build it somehwere, where no houses are. Yes, it takes a lot more time, yet I saw already so many bases which are on obvious spots, that they really don't need to be surprised, that they are found. Ot hire maybe some security people to protect the place, which lowers the chance of raids a bit.

Nevertheless, it's just loot. Yes, traders need stuff to trade, but they usually trade with what they have. They don't need a huge base with tons of tens and stuff in it. It's not a super market where everything needs to be in stock.

Actually, I rather prefer a trader, who just looks for things when he gets people interested in certain things. Like... someone goes to them, in need maybe of some sort of weapon. The trader currently doesn't have that one to trade, yet he can ask other clients or search for it or maybe even hire people to find it. Makes much more sense than the super market thing a lot of people think needs to be done. And generates a lot more RP in my opinion.

 

So yeah... no to any additional rules from me, which help loot hoarders. I do have a base too, something very small and with some stuff in it, but honestly? I don't care if anything gets stolen. Sure, my character my be sad about certain things when it's gone, but it's just loot. It can be found again. And maybe if people would stop to just hoard everything, then you could actually find some rare stuff again. But yeah, we all know, that won't happen :3

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