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Server time (UTC): 2019-09-19, 07:25
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McLeranth

Invalid kill Dwarf Castle, S1, 00:00 UTC 07/31/2019

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Posted (edited)

Server and location: S1, Dwarf Castle

Approximate time and date of the incident (SERVER TIME): 00:00 UTC 07/31/2019

Your in game name: Nadya Molotovkova

Names of allies involved: Andrew DeChino @Devin Simpson, Vojtech Prikeržnik @DookieCS

Name of suspect/s: Dominik (last name I dont know) and unknown.

Friendly/Enemy vehicles involved (if any): None

Additional evidence? (video/screenshot): None

Detailed description of the events: Two friends of mine, a stranger and myself were enjoying some campfire rp together when a flashbang gets thrown somewhere nearby us out of the darkness. I do not get flashed but I jump up believing its my friend who threw it. My weapon out and drawn as it was drawn previous to the flashbang being thrown. As I see the man who threw the flashbang I believed to have seen a friend of mine due to a similar apearance. I holster my weapon onto my back, mid way through this animation he screams "Put your hands up. Put your hands up twice. Argh. Argh" (I could barely understand the man as he sounded nervous the quote took roughly under 2 seconds), my weapon now on my back and I come to the realization that this is in fact not my friend. As I am opening getting ready to raise my hands I get shot in the face.

 

I was holstering my weapon before his initation began, the quote I used took as long to say as the animation took, as far as I am aware I phyically could not use f5 or the emote wheel in time to comply as the animation for holstering my weapon was still in play.

 

EDIT: After talking a bit more to my friends about what occured it was mentioned that the man by the campfire with us, turned out to be with the guy who iniated on us.

 

Edited by McLeranth

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Connection Logs:

Spoiler

00:38:19 | Player "Nadya Molotovkova" is connected
00:58:28 | Player "Nadya Molotovkova" has been disconnected

23:18:07 | Player "Andrew DeChino" is connected
-Still Online-

23:13:17 | Player "Vojtech Prikerznik" is connected
-Still Online-

21:01:51 | Player "Maxmilian Vitek Myska" is connected
-Still Online-

23:56:45 | Player "Dominik Dvorak" is connected
-Still Online-

Hit Logs:

Spoiler

00:06:15 | Player "Nadya Molotovkova" hit by Player "Maxmilian Vitek Myska" with FlashGrenade_Ammo into (-1) for 1.1738 damage (FlashGrenade_Ammo)
00:06:22 | Player "Nadya Molotovkova" hit by Player "Maxmilian Vitek Myska" with AKM from 15.4151 meters 
00:06:22 | Player "Nadya Molotovkova" hit by Player "Maxmilian Vitek Myska" with AKM from 15.4152 meters

00:06:15 | Player "Andrew DeChino" hit by Player "Maxmilian Vitek Myska" with FlashGrenade_Ammo into (-1) for 0 damage (FlashGrenade_Ammo)

00:06:15 | Player "Dominik Dvorak" hit by Player "Maxmilian Vitek Myska" with FlashGrenade_Ammo into (-1) for 0.866603 damage (FlashGrenade_Ammo)

Kill Logs:

Spoiler

00:06:22 | Player "Nadya Molotovkova" (DEAD) killed by Player "Maxmilian Vitek Myska" with AKM from 15.4152 meters 

Calling in for POV's:

@McLeranth | Nadya Molotovkova | POSTED

@Devin Simpson | Andrew DeChino | POSTED

@DookieCS | Vojtech Prikerznik | POSTED

@Ducky | Maxmilian Vitek Myska | POSTED

@groovy ToeZies | Dominik Dvorak | POSTED

Please post a FULL and DETAILED POV and any VIDEO EVIDENCE you have

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It was pretty late ingame and we're sitting by the fire doing some internal rp with some characters getting drunk, others relaxing in a shed, I'm walking around looking for the drunk woman (Nadya) when I see a man with NVGs behind a wall, my character not being hostile I invited him over to the campfire where the topic of needing a rifle comes up, I say that I'll ask if we can spare any. After a few minutes Nadya shows up and is RPing as expected. We have a few more minutes of talking about various things when a flashbang comes flying into the campfire spot blinding some of the people around it. We hear one voice from the dark make fast and loud demands to put our hands up, I follow the orders as one would, although 2 or 3 seconds after the initiation began we hear gunshots, it seemed as though Nadya was shot in the middle of the holstering animation. We ended up getting robbed and of some of our weapons and that was about all the interaction we had.

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Andrew's POV: I had just come back from being AFK when I heard Vojtech talking to someone outside of the shed I was in so I waited for a second to see who it was, before I came out of the shed Nadya came back from the pond and took a seat beside the campfire with Dominik and Vojtech. Once everyone sat down I came out of the shed and joined them. While we were sitting we saw a flashbang come from over the wall and land somewhere below us slightly stunning us. After that a man rushed around the corner and shouted "Put your hands up" multiple times very quickly and before she could holster her weapon and put her hands up she was shot. Vojtech and I were then robbed of our guns and then the men left.

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Maxim POV:

Myself and ToeZ were scouting out a camp looking to arm ourselves after having been robbed not too long ago. Dominik gets spotted in the dead of night and decides to make himself known. After he introduces himself and gets them to drop their guard I sneak around to a safe distance where I can prepare a flashbang. As they are all sat around the campfire I throw the flashbang and swiftly run up and initiate after it goes off, what I see before me is her two friends, one surrendering while the other ran inside the shed and closed the door, meanwhile she is running around with her rifle in hand looking for me, we make eye contact for a second and seeing that she had not joined her friends in surrendering I open fire.

During this situation I was under the impression that Flashbangs were allowed to be used if directly followed by an initiation, I have since been told this is not the case, so I take full responsibility for that and humbly apologize for my fuck-up.

I would however like to point out that at no point in the rules is there any mention of flashbangs and other non-lethal means, and that it has only been discussed in threads by community members if it is or isn't valid, this is the reason I had things mixed up, and as I have already said, I do humbly apologize, please add a section which details the use of non-lethal means as hostile actions, or at the very least directs players to use them following an initiation and not prior, as I unfortunately have done. 

As for the initiation that followed said flashbang, that was all in order, and the OP was killed because she failed to comply. All I can do now is ask @McLeranth for forgiveness and say that I will not make this mistake in the future, and I hope that a ban is not necessary, as I already agree with you that I am in the wrong here.

No video evidence from my end.

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As for my train of though for using the flashbang beforehand, this is how it goes.

 

We all agree that shooting someone before initiating is a bad thing, that is considered attempted RDM.

However, we have seen in the past from other reports that PUNCHING someone counts as a hostile act, but isn't necessarily seen as RDM.

Following that mentality, it seems to me that highly lethal hostile actions (Gunfire) have to be after an initiation, meanwhile (Non-lethal or less-than-lethal) hostile acts do not necessarily require an initiation beforehand.

A flashbang does deal a tiny bit of damage to the target, the same way a punch does, and in my eyes throwing a flash bang is indeed a hostile act, but I did not see it in the same light as gunfire as nobody died to the flashbang, and if anyone was indeed hit by it I doubt they were injured heavily or even intermediately.

 

With that in mind, make note that I did validly initiate after the flashbang went off, running up in plain sight with my weapon raised, giving clear demands to the involved parties to put their hands up or they were dead, her two friends complied which should give the impression that she had more than enough time to comply, however instead she decided to run around and search for me instead of complying with my initiation.

 

What I am trying to highlight with this is that, I did validly initiate after the flashbang went off, and the involved parties were more than aware of the situation from that initiation.

 

Compare this to someone stealing from a tradepost, stealing is seen as a hostile act, and if someone were to shoot at the thief, the thief would not gain rights back, however if the thief initiated after stealing, he would gain attackers rights.

The same goes for punching, if I were to punch another player they would gain defensive rights on me, and I would not gain rights back on them Unless If I were to initiate after punching them, showing visible threat and making clear demands.

 

I hope this puts to light why my thought process went as it did, and if I am indeed mistaken or wrong in this scenario then I will of course make note of that and prevent this kind of situation from happening again, but keep in mind that I have not been able to find anywhere stating that a flashbang is equal to gunfire, I only have community chatter and discussion talking about it and no official statement.

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Sorry for the spam, but just to add onto my argument of the non-lethal capabilities of the flashbang, this is the excerpt for the flashbang projectile.

	class FlashGrenade_Ammo: DefaultAmmo
	{
		indirectHit = 1;
		indirectHitRange = 5;
		explosive = 1;
		typicalSpeed = 3;
		initSpeed = 3;
		simulation = "shotShell";
		simulationStep = 0.05;
		soundSetExplosion[] = {"Flashgrenade_Explosion_SoundSet","Flashgrenade_Explosion_Tail_SoundSet"};
		class DamageApplied
		{
			type = "FragGrenade";
			class Health
			{
				damage = 5;
			};
			class Blood
			{
				damage = 0;
			};
			class Shock
			{
				damage = 0;
			};
		};

 

This is the config for the flashbang projectile.

This is what damages you if you are hit by a flashbang

As you can see, it deals 5 damage upon detonation.

I am more than confident enough to say that it Less damage than a punch.

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Posted (edited)

Dominik POV:

Me and Maxim spend roughly 15 or so minutes watching this camp from the shadows, I have the only set of Night vision I take an opportunity to move around the side of the castle and get caught moving by one of the guys in the camp, I play it off casually and join them at the campfire, conveniently getting them to drop their guard somewhat.

We were in desperate need of weapons due to getting robbed earlier that day. I see the flash bang come in and go off, stunning a couple of the people around the campfire before Maxim (Ducky) Runs up and makes a clear initiation.

However Nadya had gotten up and was sprinting to the side during the initiation, which to me looked as if she was running off, and then after a couple of seconds, Ducky takes the shot and takes her out.

During this I kept my Makarov locked on the one man by the campfire and keeping an eye on the shed the other man had run into, trying to keep the situation under control. We explain the situation that we were in need and would hopefully pay the Slovak back some day when we could, but right now we were in need.

 

EDIT: No video evidence from my end #potatoPC

Edited by groovy ToeZies

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We are currently waiting to talk this out for the moment.

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After discussion between my group and the people involved I wish to drop the case and apologise for taking up time. I do not seek any consequences to come out of this.

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First of all we would like to say that we are glad you have managed to talk things out. Because of this the staff team have agreed to accept the request to close this report. However, there are a few points that we would like to address for you to take into consideration.

@Ducky in future, please keep in mind that no hostile actions are allowed without initiations. You can't run up to people and punch them randomly, you can't throw in flashbangs into crowds, you can't shoot at people without initiation. In this case you decide to throw a flashbang into a crowd of people in order to stun them before initiating. In future, do not throw flashbangs before initiating on your target. In addition, if somebody feels that a rule has been broken they are allowed to file a report and it's down to our team of Gamemasters to determine whether a report has enough evidence to back it up or not, it's not down to you to decide what is wasted time and what isn't to try and coax other community members to drop a report.

With that being said, the report is /CLOSED

Signed by @Saunders & @Voodoo

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