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Roland

Metagaming changes 3 week poll

Metagaming rule vote  

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Posted (edited)

Its a good rule in theory, but realistically people are not going to follow it and i feel this will lead to a lack of video evidence in reports because the person reporting and even the other side may realize they slipped up and forgot to double mic something and don't want to get banned for metagaming over something stupid

Edited by Shroud

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Shroud said:

Its a good rule in theory, but realistically people are not going to follow it and i feel this will lead to a lack of video evidence in reports because the person reporting and even the other side may realize they slipped up and forgot to double mic something and don't want to get banned for metagaming over something stupid

But it is all about muscle memory, simple as that.

When I double mic, I do not even think about it, there is a correlation between me talking on the radio and pushing both buttons down on instinct when I do it.

It is all about learning and changing habits.

I feel weird even explaining this.

 

Is same when you learn stick shift driving with a car.

You first have to think about it before every gear change, eventually you just do it without even thinking...

Edited by Shanoby

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Posted (edited)

+1 I voted yes to keeping the rule, because it improves roleplay immersion and it will help current player mentality to adapt to fair play.

How so? I have noticed improved roleplay in general.

  • Psychologically - Due to players gaining said mentality for the rule 3.6, players will banter less with their friends on third-party client, and will engage in playful roleplay banter amongst there characters in-game, which will extend outside their inner circle. This is beneficial to immersion.
  • Players are now speaking to others over their radio (double-miccing), and because of that, it has helped me engaged in conversations with them.
  • I am no longer getting initiated on players who stand around me in silence for a few moments, before suddenly screaming at me to put my hands up.
  • Improved HostageRP for me; such in my recently posted video (example around 5:59-6:20), of @Dew and his fellow Muslims/Russians.

To be honest, I feel like the majority of those who voted to have it removed, is due to them finding it inconvenient to relay their third-party communication chatter with the in-game VOIP. Tough shit. Do it anyways. Play fair. Why should others play fair, and not you?

Since, the rule has been in place, I have been in a hostile encounter myself, and any time I needed to communicate with my team members, I double-micced. I think it was fair to me and to my opposers.

I will also state, that just because a rule isn't easily enforceable, or may cause conflicting issues, doesn't mean it is morally incorrect to have said rule.

In regards to reports having less video evidence, I have seen the resilience of the staff team come to a verdict with just evidence logs and POVs. Besides, lying in a report, or refusing to provide evidence (if proven you done so), is a much harsher penalty.

If the staff team, decides to make adjustments to the rule, I feel in the very least a physical radio item should be required in order to communicate with others. I also feel, if not considered metagaming, it should be categorized as "BadRP", if you stand around infront of another player silent with intent to engage in a hostile action, and while engaging with your hostages.

Edited by CamoRP

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Posted (edited)

In an ideal world where @Roland can see everything we say over discord, yes this would be great. 

Otherwise, no. this rule is just too exploitable. It is too hard to regulate.

Edited by KingRP

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This rule is next to impossible to enforce, is easy to forget, and will result in video evidence not being posted in reports if the person forgot to double mic.

Good rule in theory, bad rule in practice.

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Its a no from me, while I appreciate what the rule is trying to accomplish, there is simply no viable way to enforce it unless something similar to TaskForceRadio is developed. Another downside to the rule, is the clear difference in video evidence prior to the rule change and after the rule change. People have both quit reporting and started just not posting evidence due to it, for instance, lets say some one has video evidence of the report. How ever, they forgot to double mic something in the recording. They wont be posting the video to avoid the meta-gaming ban. All in all, while the rule is good in theory, in actuality it just doesn't work.  I think a good balance between what we have and what we had would be to require every one to have a radio on them to use third party communications.

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Perhaps not to enforce this rule, but the mentality of talking over the radio and in game at the same time should be a must, just not via the rules. There are too many encounters that I've had where people are just chatting over Discord or Teamspeak and not really engaging in roleplay. But I do get the complaints on it, it's a rather frustrating thing to deal with in terms of rule breaks. I've done it a few times myself where I forget to press both buttons and I would be rather angry if I got banned for it. However, I feel the idea behind the rule should stay one way or another. Having the ability to allow other characters to interact with a potential discussion and not just engage in telepathy often keeps me engaged far more. 

 

So, I'm rather mixed with what I want. On one hand, I very much agree that the idea behind the rule should be enforced, not by rules but just by members of the community for what is acceptable. However, I can see why people do not wish for it to be around as it creates issues regarding fear over posting video evidence. I think this is something that requires more time right now.

Tl;dr: Both sides make good points, but I feel it may be too early to decide. 

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Posted (edited)

I like that it prevents people from standing around silently radioing their friends and requires a little more subtlety to deliver messages without being super obvious about it. However, it does make it hard to hear comms sometimes if you're around people who are on the same radio frequency as you and they're double-miccing. The echo is less than ideal. Overall, though, I think it adds to immersion while dealing with other groups by removing what is essentially psychic communication more than it detracts from communication among one's own group.

Adding to what Camo said, I've also been left with a radio as a hostage since this rule was added and had a lot of fun subtly delivering messages to allies. I also found it interesting to have to go radio silent for a while after letting the group know I was being taken hostage until the aggressors returned my radio and told me to make contact.

Edited by yiska

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Posted (edited)

It was fine the way it was before, my experiences with it are that it sounds all fine and dandy in theory, but in practise it's an annoying nightmare. No. 

Edited by LifeLight

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Look, I'd like for it to stay, but remove the double mic part. Too many people find it annoying, but the other part seems to be fundamental, after all, we already spawn with a functional radio every time. Getting it revoked by someone is a clear sign that you shouldn't be able to communicate anymore.

But it does bother me that there is close to no evidence that can be used in cases like this.

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Well, I've given it a chance and overall I still don't really see the point in this rule.

This was never really an issue in Mod, and even when it was a bit ridiculous, all it took was someone saying 'Hey it wasn't cool how your guys just stood there while people tried talking to you'. As far as the 'realism' or 'immersion', I go back to my former point. You can take a standard Baofeng radio with an ear piece and attached mic (very standard and very cheap with each purchase) and you can sit there and talk into it without people hearing you/understanding what you're saying or even realizing you're communicating. I just got back from a trip to Oklahoma in June (broke my ankle btw), in which we use boafengs. You can be 15-20 feet from someone, talking quietly and being inconspicuous and they not be able to hear you. We even had people walk right past us while we were whispering over mic in a wooded area.

idk. I think that this rule was ultimately made by two types of people. Those who want hyper-immersion/cluttered communication which, it's DayZ I'm not sure why you'd want that, and immersion only goes so far. And then there's people who get mad when some people are quiet for more than 5 minutes when they're describing their life story to you, while you quietly talk to your friends in discord/ts and decide whether you want to initiate. Ultimately, in bandit groups I've been in we just had the person being spoke with talk, while the rest of us patrolled or talked from a relative distance away, to where they wouldn't be able to hear us whisper into clip mics anyway.

So, all that said I voted 'No'. But I'd love to see it go 50/50 just to see how Rolle chooses.

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Having this rule has stopped a lot of the telepathic communications which in my opinion is fantastic for RP purposes. I do however see it's downside in that people are showing less video evidence for reports.. But at the end of the day, all people have to do is double mic in game information when giving that type of information via third party communication programmes and they wouldn't have this issue. This is a RP server and I feel this rule helps make RPing more immersive and this is why I voted yes to keep it.

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I say keep it. It's helped prevent people from just awkwardly standing in a circle.

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2 hours ago, Ke Ke said:

I say keep it. It's helped prevent people from just awkwardly standing in a circle.

Not really I've ran to people who awkwardly stand in a circle and then run off.

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17 minutes ago, YNW Law said:

It's only awkward if you don't have friends

Let me rephrase it. My friends and I don't hop into DayZRP and stand in a circle and shoot the shit when we can RP, and other players don't stand in circles in the town square of berezino and awkwardly stand around because everyone is talking IC'ly.

2 minutes ago, Eagle said:

Not really I've ran to people who awkwardly stand in a circle and then run off.

Hate to hear it. Help build the Rp you want I guess.

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Ke Ke said:

Hate to hear it. Help build the Rp you want I guess.

What force others to speak to me? that's not how it works.

Edited by Eagle

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1 minute ago, Eagle said:

What force others to speak to me? that's not how it works.

That's also not the point of this thread. The implementation of the metagaming rule has helped in various aspects, such as discouraging people to stand around and talk on 3rd party about their next moves when they can discuss it in game. As well, it gives a more realistic approach to conversations, such as having to step away from a group of people so nobody hears you communicating over your radio or purposely saying things over the radio in front of someone so they can hear it.

RP is a two way street, and I personally feel like enforcing people to double mic has increased the quality of roleplay I've received and witnessed others give. If you want to talk about how building RP off of other characters work, PM me.

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I beg you to get rid of this rule it really makes this server a hassle to play there are a few moments where its cool but then anytime your in combat your basically forced to give your position away if you need video evidence and if you don't wanna give your position up your crucified for meta gaming its a fat struggle if ima be real. 

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22 minutes ago, PapaMeme said:

I beg you to get rid of this rule it really makes this server a hassle to play there are a few moments where its cool but then anytime your in combat your basically forced to give your position away if you need video evidence and if you don't wanna give your position up your crucified for meta gaming its a fat struggle if ima be real. 

You are not “forced” to do anything. You are supposed to hot mic when you’re relaying IC information over your “radio”. 

Please further explain how this rule is a hassle? Playing on an RP server means behaving as realistically as your character would. Would you just magically be able to communicate with your friends telepathically about where someone is, or would you have to produce some kind of sound to talk over a radio/phone and tell them where your enemy is?

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I started loving this rule to death.... Except for one part of it.

Having to have the radio item on you, so for this reason and this reason alone I voted no.

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Doesn't work. I understand we're going for realism but when I whisper a callout into my radio and the guy through 3 walls of solid concrete says "I heard thattt" just makes it dumb. Half the groups don't even follow this rule anyway. It's alright up until a gunfight happens. This rule is just gonna get people banned. Forgot to double mic a hand full of times because reaching for caps lock might get you killed by people who aren't following the rule anyways? Woosh you get a 3 day. It's just restricting and unnatural, we've came this far without it and everything has been fine, and now we're banning people for days because of it. Also, rip all the video evidence since this was enacted.

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Rule 3.6 promotes realistic roleplay. I get both sides, but we're a roleplay server. You win some you lose some. People see the relaying of critical information within earshot of enemies as a loss. Lots of people don't like to lose. I've had some great RP when hearing some of this information or relaying this information. It forces people to react. With this rule, if you choose to relay information, you may think it's a good idea to go take a quick wander somewhere and relay said information you just gained and come back. Maybe the people decide to follow you and hear what was relayed and take you hostage and initiate. So many different RP opportunities just from having this rule. If this rule wasn't in place. Why would anyone follow you into the woods while you were wandering? Why would you just not relay it in between your IC VOIP comms? The value of rule 3.6 outweighs the cons.

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I mostly approve of rule 3.6 with how it has been implemented.

 

I am perfectly happy to concede that the radio physical item itself does not need to be physically on a person. I will personally only ever use the radio if I physically have one on hand to use, but that is a personal choice. The old way of having people emote having a radio worked fine as well, and I think the issue of people being released after being stripped of one and then 'finding' one way too fast was one that rarely ever came up.

 

As for the double-mic'ing, I think this is something that needs to stay in game. This is a roleplay server first and foremost, and if you are having issues with your hostile moments because of this rule, that is just the nature of the beast. People actually saying in game 'Excuse me a moment, just answering a radio' and such, and having radio-conversations, has improved and enhanced RP in many ways. Especially for solo/lone wanderer players like myself that otherwise would never know of groups inner communications.

 

For those of you struggling to follow this rule during firefights, or struggling with the fact DayZ doesn't allow 'whispers' meaning everything you say goes a long way... Find ways to use that. Incorporate it into your strategy. Make 'fake' radio callouts, play mindgames, use code words. I personally have never been in a hostile situation on the radio in DayZ, so regretfully its not an area  I'm familiar with, but I have 100% baited out reactions in people in paintball games by messing with them in this way. 😄 

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