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Conor

Rule 3.6 Discussion

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It's been a little while now since this rule has been added as a trial and I have been re-reading this discussion thread regarding said rule and I have a question I think requires some discussion/clarification with the community, staff team and especially @Roland.

Now. I think the rule is not great but it's not terrible. I am not against it staying as a permanent rule but I would not loose sleep if it were removed.

 

My question pertains specifically to the use of the in-game radio item and not third party communication apps like teamspeak or discord.

 

Here is a scenario:

I am in Vybor, my friend is at NWAF. We both have our in-game radios turned on and tuned to the same frequency. My radio is attached to the strap of my backpack but due to the in-game mechanics, I do not need to take the radio into my hands in order to use it for communication. As long as it is turned on and tuned correctly, anything I say (or type) as well as anything said around me is picked up by the radio and transmitted to my friend and anybody else who might be listening.

Now if, whilst in Vybor, I am initiated on by someone or a group, I can say out loud, or type, something along the lines of "Oh no. Why are you pointing guns at me and taking me captive in this town of Vybor"

Now by saying this, I have just told my friend that I have been initiated on in Vybor. I have not emoted anything and unless they pick up on the faint static noise from the radio, my initiators may not even know that I have just informed my friend.

 

My real question is this: Once I comply and I raise my hands as per the initiators demands, according to the rule I am not longer permitted to use the radio. Now unless my captors physically remove my radio, due to the game mechanics, anything I or they say or type, will still be broadcast to my friend and anyone listening.

How does the rule affect this? Am I unintentionally metagaming due to the mechanics of the game? Can I just keep talking about where I am being taken and how many people take me? Do I have to contact my friend OOCly and inform them not to take anything else they hear over the radio IC as I have my hands up?

 

/Discuss

 

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Ooooh, thats a good one.

 

The classic 'I duct taped my radio!' shenanigans.

 

Personally? To me its not a rule break. None of the people likely to ever use this 'trick' ever use the IG radio because why would you when you have to coordinate initiations and hostile actions over Teamspeak/Discord? 

 

I'm curious to see how staff rule however. I don't think it can be considered a rulebreak though because its a feature of the DayZ item working as it works. 

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8 minutes ago, Conor said:

My real question is this: Once I comply and I raise my hands as per the initiators demands, according to the rule I am not longer permitted to use the radio. Now unless my captors physically remove my radio, due to the game mechanics, anything I or they say or type, will still be broadcast to my friend and anyone listening.

How does the rule affect this? Am I unintentionally metagaming due to the mechanics of the game? Can I just keep talking about where I am being taken and how many people take me? Do I have to contact my friend OOCly and inform them not to take anything else they hear over the radio IC as I have my hands up?

 

I don't personally see this as a big issue to be honest. One can always hop into the inventory and straight up drop the radio on the floor just before doing the hands up animation. This eliminates the problem of unintentional metagaming.

Having played in the community prior to the rule with double micing I was very positive to this rule change when I re-read the rules a week back. This was an issue back when there was no enforcing how people used their OOC communication.

While it is hard to enforce this rule to full extent, I still think it is effective as a guideline for players as to how to behave while playing on a roleplaying server.

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You transmitted the information through in game radio, as such the 3.6 would not apply since it only prohibits use of external communications to metagame.

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Metagaming is using OOC information In character. The radio in game will continue to transmit therefore providing information IC. The metagaming would be using the emotes seen within the radio and using it IC when there is no way to physically know that those actions being emoted are happening. Personally I dont see this as a rulebreak as it's an in game mechanic and radios in game are iffy at best. 

Generally the issue is with third party comms being used to transmit the information as the new rule 3.6 states.

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This used to be a thing I remember. Haven’t run into anything lately 

7 minutes ago, Rover said:

Ooooh, thats a good one.

 

The classic 'I duct taped my radio!' shenanigans.

 

Personally? To me its not a rule break. None of the people likely to ever use this 'trick' ever use the IG radio because why would you when you have to coordinate initiations and hostile actions over Teamspeak/Discord? 

 

I'm curious to see how staff rule however. I don't think it can be considered a rulebreak though because its a feature of the DayZ item working as it works. 

 

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Just now, Roland said:

You transmitted the information through in game radio, as such the 3.6 would not apply since it only prohibits use of external communications to metagame.

Even though I did not emote touching the radio, pressing the push to talk or 'duct taping' the push to talk to transmit?

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1 minute ago, Conor said:

Even though I did not emote touching the radio, pressing the push to talk or 'duct taping' the push to talk to transmit?

You just said

Quote

 As long as it is turned on and tuned correctly, anything I say (or type) as well as anything said around me is picked up by the radio and transmitted to my friend and anybody else who might be listening.

So which one is it? Do you have to reach it to activate it or not? Obviously if your hands are up and you would need to reach the PPT then you can't do that. I'm unsure how radios work while turned on and attached to the vest, I suppose it all comes down to that.

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I think it's a lot of nuance that gets in the way.

Which is why it's easier to say "if you're hands are up you cannot transmit" because it's easier to monitor and maintain. While it makes sense from a mechanic and IRL point of view it makes it harder for the GMs and Staff to regulate the "well was the radio on? Did he leave it on? Can you hear a static? When did he turn it on? Do you have video evidence of turning on and attaching your radio to your bag?" Etc.

We want to make the rules easy to follow and easy to monitor/maintain while I agree with you that it likely could work there's a lot of specifics that have to go into it to make it regulated.  

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2 minutes ago, Roland said:

You just said

So which one is it? Do you have to reach it to activate it or not? Obviously if your hands are up and you would need to reach the PPT then you can't do that. I'm unsure how radios work while turned on and attached to the vest, I suppose it all comes down to that.

As I said in my previous post. The player can just drop the radio before raising his/her hands. Problem solved.

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Just now, Roland said:

You just said

So which one is it? Do you have to reach it to activate it or not? Obviously if your hands are up and you would need to reach the PPT then you can't do that. I'm unsure how radios work while turned on and attached to the vest, I suppose it all comes down to that.

Really I am just wondering if I can talk and talk into the radio, giving information about the situation without even touching the radio, just because I turned it on before. Radios don't work like that in real life of course, you need to hold the PTT to transmit but that's not how it works IG so I am just trying to figure out which side of the line it falls on, if it's fine to do or not.

If I am using teamspeak/discord I have to emote that I talk into my radio along with a brief bit of text to show what I said (as a text RPer) or double mic it if I use VOIP. As soon as my hands are up I am not able to do this but if I use the IG radio, I can have my hands up and still chat away about the situation.

2 minutes ago, Hofer said:

As I said in my previous post. The player can just drop the radio before raising his/her hands. Problem solved.

I would never plan on dropping my radio unless specifically told by the initiators. Regardless if it's on or off, or if I am using it to communicate IG or via 3rd party programs. If the captors forget to take my radio, that's on them. As soon as I am free, I can get on the radio and call in help.

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6 minutes ago, Hofer said:

As I said in my previous post. The player can just drop the radio before raising his/her hands. Problem solved.

If the radio is turned on before dropping it, the IG radio will still broadcast VOIP in it's vicinity to whichever frequency it is on.

With that in mind, would dropping the radio on the floor whilst turned on to broadcast VOIP to allies be a rule break, the same as talking via 3rd party comms would result in meta-gaming?

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1 minute ago, Kordruga-kun said:

If the radio is turned on before dropping it, the IG radio will still broadcast VOIP in it's vicinity to whichever frequency it is on.

I understand. I was not aware of this having recently returned to DayZ after many years away from it. Then this is a different kind of issue than what I initially thought.

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I think it should be perfectly allowed because you are using game mechanics and ACTUALLY using the game radio rather then third party software like TS or Discord.

overall I really hate this rule because it’s simply another eggshell we have to watch out for now and another free thing people can lop into a report for extra points on people. 

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I mean, unless your character is a Smooth Operator, like James Bond or something, they would likely be raising their voice a bit because of the subconscious need to be heard over the radio that's on the floor instead of next to their mouth, like they're used to. They also might have to force certain information into the conversation with the antagonists, like location or instructions to their friends. If you've ever seen the movie Air Force One, there's a scene where the President is doing exactly this to tell people how to help him, by talking "to" a terrorist that has a gun to his back while a phone transmits it all back to America.

A sharp antagonist would be able to pick up on these cues, giving them the idea to make sure the radio is off. Spoiler alert: the terrorist in the movie wasn't that sharp, and was just confused why the President was talking to him.

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Just because the radio is attached to your chest does not mean you can communicate without touching it.

Sure it makes it easier to access it quickly and talk into it, but you very much still need to lift your hand up and physically interact with it on your chest.

I believe if you were to continue to communicate via radio after your hands are raised, that would be metagaming, much like it would have been in the past as well.

 

// edit

I did just notice that you were referring to using the actual ingame radio voip (AKA the horrible ass system that barely functions half the time).

Shit, I suppose that would be okay since its an ingame mechanic, although I dont think its gonna be as effective as you think it will. I have bad experience with these radios barely functioning in the base game.

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@Ducky But the radios don't function that way in-game, is the issue. They transmit until turned off, from what I can tell, not by PTT like they would IRL. Because open two-way communication is obviously the best way to communicate over a radio 🙄.

So, do we see the game mechanics as canon, or do we pretend it works the way it does IRL? Because if I can believe that nails can dye things black, I can believe the radios were designed by someone that can't hold a conversation XD

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Metagaming is using OOC information (gathered from a 3rd party communication programme) IC. I personally don't see this as a rulebreak since it's an in game mechanic and you wouldn't be using 3rd party comms to give said information. However, emoting would be an issue as obviously the person on the other end of the radio wouldn't be able to physically see that you are, for example, putting your hands up and using that information would be a different story to reading what your character had said out loud via text RP. In addition, the in game radio's seem to be so broken right now so I don't think they'll be as effective as you think, but I do see your point and it was definitely good to bring up for discussion.

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i could only say what i would do to comply state i am turning off my radio and mute my self from the radio source. many are great actors and know this maybe a game mechanic that has to be address. 

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I mean this all boils down to bad robbers tbf. 

Anyone who is stupid enough not to search you for both an IG and OOC radio ASAP is a complete and utter borkaloid... 

"Ok, Drop your weapons, drop your radio if you have one, and don't speak until you have or it will be your last fucking words!"

As Roland said, this is all chill and gucci, but jesus christ if someone aint smart enough to stop this from happening within the confines of RP / common sense then they deserve the bois to roll up and gat em 😂
 

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