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Joah

S1 Chernogorsk - BadRP/Griefing/Hostage NVFL/KoS - No Pk followed by it

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Posted (edited)

Server and location: S1 - Chernogorsk

Approximate time and date of the incident (SERVER TIME): 2019/6/16 (10:00-11:20 AM GMT???) (Confirmed: 5:45 AM - 7:15 AM EST)

Your in game name: Dean Lockwood

Names of allies involved: Jay Spartan [Various CTF members]

Name of suspect/s: Mercenary Group that calls themselves "Contractors"

Friendly/Enemy vehicles involved (if any): 2 CTF's Vehicle

Additional evidence? (video/screenshot): 
8ee38df3376b8bbcd3d244bc7808f0dd.png

aca103cd608a883b68be4b4cf170dae5.jpg

Detailed description of the events:

BadRP/Griefing: So I wake up and I hear the CTF outside complaining that some guys outside are dismantling their car and attempting to "sell the parts" when they already destroyed the car parts / etc (bad roleplay and griefing). This was one of the CTF members cars. The accused is claiming they have a recording of one of the CTF members having permission to keep the car. If this is true, I'd like to see the entire clip of him asking to keep the car, and the CTF member specifically telling him that it is okay to take the car. If so, the griefing portion of this can be dropped. (Not some half-trimmed clip of a conversation regarding a portion of this conversation- The whole clip).  After being told that it was these guys outside causing a bunch of drama, the Mafia left to deal with them. We held up one of the boys from "The Contractors" after concealing his identity. (This was the start of the initiation) - Note: This was an obvious bait to start PvP rather than roleplaying. This was a horrible example of how this server should run and this group should be severely looked at as they are wanting to become an official group. [PvP Baiting no RP involved] This, of course, seems a little much like a lie, considering they destroyed two cars... not just "one" that they were told they could take.

[Griefing Summary] Boyo claimed to have "Evidence - "Video Evidence" of the CTF saying he could have the car, and he is blatantly lying as he destroyed two cars. None of the CTF guys initated on him at all during the time that this was happening. The only people that initiated on them was the Mafia and this was long after his claim. He is blatantly going to lie on this report about having permissions and already blatantly lied to me about "having permission to take the car" Their story does not add up. First, it's "We were given the car". Second: "We're stealing the cars" Third: Nah we were just trying to sell the cars. These guys had an intention of destroying property to grief and PvP bait the CTF members by creating horrible RP. When confronted with a group that can actually handle them. The story suddenly changes and they run off into the city and "Never heard of anything that happened about the cars" The parts were taken off the car and destroyed to the side. So if they wanted to steal the car, that was pretty stupid. If they wanted to sell shit, kinda sucks selling broken parts. If they were given it, why didn't they just drive off with it. These guys are obvious pvp baiters to the roleplayers and it's quite annoying.

Hostage NVFL: The mafia was on decent good terms with the mercenary group that calls themselves "Contractors", we took this guy into a building and questioned him about his affiliation with them. #1.) He blatantly lied to me saying he wasn't apart of the contractors. We tied him up and found him with the dark-blue armband and told him to stop lying to us, we noticed his voice and armband. He still proceeded to act stupid. We gave clear demands stating that if anyone gets involved with this situation you will be shot.(TO THE HOSTAGE ONLY) (His boys were running around with no arm-bands at all making them virtually impossible to notice if they were apart of a group or not and just shot one of my boys Zayne in the head after a clear threat was made. The guy inside that we decided to kill in a trade for the opposing group making this decision. We actually tried to de-escalate the situation as we have had great friendly interactions with these boys multiple times today. Today I saved one of their men from getting held up, I could clearly hear the leader of their group saying "Dean's a cool guy, we're good with the Mafia." Noticing that this could very well be the same guy, I tried to de-escalate the situation by telling him that he may have his weapon back and everything if he just told me that he was apart of the mercenary's and we can simply go our separate ways. He then proceeded to threaten us with "If you know what's best for you, you'll just let me go." so he had an attempt at trying to RP there, then one of his boys just shot one of mine. So I executed him. The dude refused to PK in a blatant NVFL situation. If he would've pk'd I would not have thrown up this report at all. The opposing group did not attempt to RP the Hostage situation out and just did mindless dog brain PvP in a blatant bait to push us into a PvP Situation. (Griefing the Cars)

[The NVFL Summary] Has nothing to do with the hostage lying, it's the fact that we gave him 3 opportunities to live, and ways for him to get out and instead, had no value to do it and just kept threatening us with "You better let me go or else high horse attempts" - Just wanted to pvp rather than talk the situation out. His intentions were clear. If you have an intent to die, PK your character. Do not act like you are a god. That is not what an RP server is about. It's a bit disheartening how it's gone downhill this way and is an emotional tantrum for those who have to deal with it. If you're going to act like you have the upper hand and you don't take a PK in that instance, you are acting like you are god. Knowing that you will die. We were happy to give you up to your boys and let you go, even if it was going to escalate into a gun fight. Which your boys did not initiate back onto the CTF guys or myself.  

We gave the hostage every right to value his life, and even gave him a multitude of ways out, to de-escalate the situation.

[No-Reinitation by the "Defending" group Summary] You boys had 0 knowledge of who took you, hostage, only IC info you got was "put your hands up" and "my hands are up" and this was only from the mafia, you guys attacked two of the CTF guys that happened to be in the area just looking around. And you KOS'd / Killed them. As a group, if you are unsure of your enemies, you must "initiate on them" and make your demands clear as day. You had no knowledge of what was going on from the surrounding world, and you guys were clearing using OOC comms / Teamspeak / Discord, to meta-game information to one another and were not using VOIP. The new rule states that you must talk in the game as if you were talking to someone over the radio in real life. Odd how your boys were quiet the entire time. 

BadRP/KoS: This group had 3 different groups interact with them in a PvP situation I did kill the hostage that refused to value his own life as we would've let him go if he just told us the truth in our demand. He was powergaming attempting to act like the bigger dog of the situation with his life in danger trying to play horrible lies after we already told him we knew he was. However, I ran away and no one was able to confirm or deny that I killed the hostage as no one was there to see it. One of the boys stated "Put your hands up or you will be shot upstairs" I replied with. "Okay, my hands are up and complied being 1 man vs unconfirmed amounts. I came downstairs saying this situation could've been resolved peacefully had you gentlemen not baited with lies. Immediately while they had me, hostage, they just KoS'd me out of emotional rage as I guess they were speaking oocly inside of Teamspeak regarding the situation. They brought no RP to the table at all and were just running around shooting acting like dogs without a leash. Terrible RP. Horrible interaction. (CTF) or Chip's guys can confirm this.

This group personally had good relations with our group and it makes 0 IC sense as to why an uncontracted group who already clearly stated that they deny contracts against us, would attempt to PvP bait and give little to 0 RP interactions. Seems to me these boys were just bored and had nothing to do with their night.

Note: I messaged one of the leaders of the group pissed off stating that this is an RP server, not a  PvP server if you want to PvP hmu, and we'll go to a PvP Server. ( I do apologize for this as I was heated with the terrible roleplay presented to me - he ended up calling me and raging before the conversation even could continue and proceeded to hang up - baiting a reaction via text, as you can clearly see.).

[The KOS Summary]  One of their boys shot me while they had me, hostage, while fully complying after they told me to put my hands up and not being able to identify who I was during the gunfight. They shot me after I said, "I wish things could've been talked out, rather than baiting others into a fight." I was then immediately shot after I complied to their demands. They had no clue who I was, or who executed their friend. They made 0 attempt to negotiate/interrogate. I was told, "Put your hands up and you won't be shot". I obviously complied being the last one left. This group acts more on emotions than they do in roleplay, we are not the only group affected by this. There was 0 knowledge that was I was the one that killed the hostage let alone them knowing that I was apart of the group that executed the member, and they made 0 attempts to figure it out. (AKA) Used OOC comms/metagaming to figure it out. We were only spotted in the canals, away from the hostage, as we snuck out the back side away where no one could see us intentionally.

Their boys never initiated on CTF, who never shot at anyone let alone initiated. They killed two CTF members on KOS, without initiating for information/demands to the CTF boys. And killed a hostage who was fully complying to demands and was ready for RP.

FINAL EDIT: This group is not an official group and did not attempt to re-initiate (On chip's guys CTF who are not apart of our group that initiated) in any way or attempt to make countering demands in regards to the situation or to make themselves known as the enemy hostiles. We do not just shoot random people on the street. This group also did not talk in VOIP around the building to confirm if the person inside was their hostage or not, they had 0 knowledge of what building he was in / etc or what the enemy was wearing. Just a comms from the guy saying "I'm putting my hands up"

This is not the first issue I've had with this group, as they also AOGM'd my guys on Cho's stream after taking advantage of a crashing situation, I can clip this if the admins would like me to. I'm unsure if I returned before NLR, however, I did not go near the gunfight or near my dead body, I simply went to take pictures of the griefing as proof.

There are plenty of other groups who have been baited into "multiple contracts" that these people are using as excuses to initiate onto other people that never existed and have poofed into existence. If admins are curious about this I will contact you privately and get you the individuals who made these claims directly to me.

Twig, was on a call with me and ended up exploding/yelling at me over his discord, and hung up on me, which lead me to say some things via text which were quite angrily expressed. Such as below. https://gyazo.com/6134dfacaca347b183453f67ac6cb4b4 - I openly apologize for this, as this could be considered OOC hate? If I need to be punished for this I understand, as it was a mistake on my end. However, if I am to be punished, his character should be permanently pk'd in return at the least.

Edited by Joah

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i was there with dean the entire time this went down and it started with a group of about 7 guys coming to the compound i was in and was a part time security of so i go to the watch tower because i get told there are a bunch of guys there and then they take our car parts and destroyed almost all of them to bait us into fighting them so we go over to them and try to talk to them and then we capture one of the guys (who was alone at the time) we were sure was responsible so we interogate him and before we can even take him to a building we get shot at so i return fire and back off we go into a building and start talking to him meanwhile pepole are coming up to us so i tell them to leave and we keep the interogation going as two more pepole show up and i tell them to leave when i get shot about 3-4 times 

Note: i made no threats or anything of that sort i simply told them to leave imidatley 

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Posted (edited)

It is 8:30 am where I am. So I am going to bed but I will post my POV tomorrow, but before I go. 

11 hours ago, Joah said:

The dude refused to PK in a blatant NVFL situation. If he would've pk'd I would not have thrown up this report at all.

This is blackmail. Telling me if I PK my character he wont report us is blatant blackmail. Which is something I refuse to tolerate. 

https://gyazo.com/d21788e15e8e5aee0506b2f45f1a2508

https://gyazo.com/347b44c059210259313a706841d3ccf7

https://gyazo.com/fbb1cceacab57031e58e520845fa1424

These screen shots show that this seems a lot more about OOC hate and also highlight the blackmail and harassment. He is bringing up past game play where his people crashed and somehow that turns into my guys abusing game mechanics. 

11 hours ago, Joah said:

This is not the first issue I've had with this group, as they also AOGM'd my guys on Cho's stream after taking advantage of a crashing situation, I can clip this if the admins would like me to.

I would also like the staff team to look into how quick he returned to his base to screen shot the cars outside of his base and saying he will be there with the Muslims as I feel he might has broken NLR. 

Edited by twig

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Posted (edited)

2nd Edit: Drop the report - I don't have video evidence and this is going to be he said she said back and forth.

If the admins want to keep the report open for his accusations that's fine. But I have a perfect response as to why this happened. Thanks in advance.

Edited by Joah

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No you tried to blackmail me I would request that this report stays open.

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Posted (edited)

^ If they want to keep it open they can. But if you're going to blatant NVFL, [you absolutely should PK], this is an obvious statement, and by you trying to lie to me OOCLY about griefing is not warranted (you stated to me you had a clip of one of the CTF guys giving you permission to take the car) clearly you did not..  You can clearly see no demand is stated saying "If you do not PK I will report" I was saying "You better PK" for the blatant NVFL. I did not blackmail you, and yes, I can agree I said some things that were out of line, but in your screenshot, you can clearly see after getting out of the call with you, I was heated by your attitude/offensive demeanor. No demand was made towards a report. (Derp.) It's clear you were not blackmailed in anyway. You're grabbing at straws of all you did wrong to turn the situation at someone else. I'm done with the back and forth.

Final Clarification: In this Discord call, twig and I start a yelling match and it ends up going back and forth. You can tell from the screenshots that the call ends, and I call him a Mongoloid, although uncalled for I was extremely heated with that situation with twig and let my emotions get the best of me. I'd like to apologize straight hand to twig, If he is interested in dropping the report. I'm more than happy to drop on both sides and move on as there seems to be a shit load of reports up right now.

Edited by Joah

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Alright, enough back and forth. Anymore will result in points.

First and ONLY warning.

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John Caboose POV

Me and the boys were in Cherno and we spotted some cars outside of the trading post. So we thought we might steal them. Then we saw the guard and thought maybe just take the wheels and make a chop shop. When we took the first wheel the guard initiated on us. he said something like put it back or i'll shoot. If PVP was what we wanted we would have killed him there. Instead one of our guys went out and talked to the guard and after a few moment he said he didn't care anymore and you can take them, so we did. This is not griefing after we took the car parts they belonged to use and can do with them as we please. So we tried to sell on the corner and RP'd using them for scrap metal. After a little while a few more guards were in the tower and one of us heard him say they were going to kill us all so we fled. They found me and soon after initiated one me. When they initiated that gives my dynamic kill rights. They took me to a house and tied me up and I tried to lie my way out. I was told if anyone interferes they will kill me. I was tied up and had no way to tell my guys this. When they started taking shots they killed me. I am not part of an approved group and no negotiation were made to release me. 

I will address every accusation one by one.  

Griefing - We were told we could take it. After that what we do with the newly acquired stuff isn't up to them. it is our stuff to do with as we please.

4 hours ago, Joah said:

We gave clear demands stating that if anyone gets involved with this situation you will be shot.(TO THE HOSTAGE ONLY)

NVFL - Lying to a hostage taker has never been NVLF. You are allowed to lie it is a part of RP and is in no way against the rules. I had no way to tell my guys not to get involved at them and the hostage takers never to my knowledge told them I would be killed if they did. I don't know if you expected me to tell them that even though I was tied up and had no way to.

Baiting - If we were baiting why did we not kill the guard when he initiated on us the first time and why did we leave before you even came out of your gate. This was never about PVP.

KOS - You were seen coming out of the house you had me in and where my dead body was, shot at while you ran and chased in a house. They follow you the whole way and even if they didn't know you personally pulled the trigger there is no doubt you were involved. 4.6 If you successfully capture a player through a hostile action and then take him into your custody, he is now considered your hostage. You must do everything in your power to keep your hostages alive and in a relatively good health. That includes protecting them from external threats like zombies and leaving them with a realistic chance of survival when they are released. A character that is taken hostage may be executed once for a hostile incident that happened in the past where the hostage was personally responsible for, or participated in a death of your ally. In any other circumstances, hostages may only be executed in the following scenarios:

Metagamming - I muted right as I put my hands up. One of my guys was on the PD right behind you heard the initiation saw you take me and followed you. If I wasn't going to meta to save my life as a hostage by telling them not to shoot you why would I do it after I died? As for no one talking around the building. If my guys can hear my voice outside the building why would they need to ask anything. They saw you take me and watched you go to that house.

0 IC sense - we are contractors I told you that we hold no loyalties to you.

0 RP - We RP'd with your guard more than anyone probably had in hours. We even tried to get him to buy our scrap metal. We left because you said you were going to kill us. When you say things like that of course we are going to leave.

As for bringing up the past. I am sorry you and your guys crashed a week ago. I'm not telepathic I had no way of knowing you crashed until one of your guys went ooc in voip to tell us. It is not AOGM when someone else crashes and you keep looking for them when you have no idea they crashed.

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The video he is talking about is in-game footage of the chop shop and his guy saying we could take the stuff. It is not of the discord call. Also the video is not mine and I believe all the others that were involved on both side are waiting for logs and to be called in. There were about 5 to 6 guys on each side involved in this altercation.

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All the evidence I have is in the screen shots of our DM's and Quotes from his original unedited POV. I did not record our call where he said PK or report though I wish I had and will always in the future now. 

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A couple questions here @Joah:

 "then one of his boys just shot one of mine. So I executed him." 

So you state that you executed him because one of his friends shot your own correct? Did you at any point attempt to negotiate with his friends for his release?

Also:

"The dude refused to PK in a blatant NVFL situation. If he would've pk'd I would not have thrown up this report at all."

With this statement I am curious, did you approach @twig demanding that he pk or you would report him?

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Posted (edited)

@Zanaan

So #1.) 
His people were unaware nor did they re-initiate to confirm the hostage situation, they just straight up shot someone who was not apart of the mafia who was in the general building area then opened fire on us inside the building. (Wish I had this recorded as its more of a he said/ he said situation). Twig blatantly said to me "If you don't let me go you're going to regret it", I told him, "if anyone attempts to storm the building your life will be forfeit" (knowing his friends were in voice range) I also gave him an easy way of leaving by stating. "I already know who you are, just tell me that you are who you are and I will let you go, if you choose to fight me after that is your choice as I didn't want it to escalate to this situation." (Before being able to further my demands) Immediately, someone was shot and a horrible gunfight with no RP broke out, with an unapproved group killing innocent people involved and the direct people involved. Kill logs will show that people not apart of the mafia were indeed killed who never initiated. (Note: Twig's friends were PvP baiting and had no intent of RP'ing out the situation, they made 0 attempts to talk to me through the wall. They made 0 attempts to de-escalate the situation when people were attempting to talk to the people running around the building). They also were not double micing while running around the building and were somehow organized. 

#2.) I did not once say "If you don't do this I will report you". I stated to him in our call that it was blatant NVFL / Griefing (To pvp bait)/ And KOS. He then proceeded to scream at me inside of the call and hung up on me mid-conversation and thus why I replied with "You're a Mongoloid"  It was me acting out of emotions based on how he replied, and I do apologize for those actions. (However the OOC hate went both ways, and I'm sure both of us can acknowledge the childishness)

Hope this clears things up. There was no demand made over text or voice that stated: "If you don't PK your character I am going to report you". As you can see, I only stated "You better PK for NVFL / Blatant Griefing / KOS-BadRP" - I thought it was terrible RP, and it was a personal opinion. It is, of course, his decision whether or not he would like to kill off that character. I hope you can see my frustration in this matter. Thank you for replying Zanaan, have a great rest of the day.

Edited by Joah

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Verdict

Blackmail - INCONCLUSIVE

Powergaming - INCONCLUSIVE

Explanation

Since @Joah wanted to drop the report on his side, the staff team have looked over the counter report for blackmailing and powergaming. However, due to the lack of evidence provided to us we cannot pick and chose whom is telling the truth and who is not.

@twig In future, please screenshot or record any conversations that you have with the other party in case anything stated (blackmail or powergaming) claims do occur. 

With the following, this makes the claims inconclusive.

Outcome

@Joah - Blackmail and Powergaming - INCONCLUSIVE - No punishment given

Signed by @Mademoiselle and @Samti with notes

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