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Roland

Whitelist improvements

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What kind of questions would you like?

True and False statements?

Yes or no questions?

Questions with bigger in-depth answers that differ from user to user?

 

Im asking because, if you are trying to do automation on the whitelist then obviously set parameters are nice, but as soon as you introduce bigger answers that arent uniform the automation kinda breaks.

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Questions are multiple choice, with 4 different choices available.

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3 minutes ago, Roland said:

Questions are multiple choice, with 4 different choices available.

I'ma gonna be in the camp who suggest one, just a single one (as I know staff don't have ages) written out answer. 

Not only does it have new players put in the effort creatively, but also gives staff a feel for the sort of player they are through the way / tone in which they answer 🙂

 

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11 minutes ago, Ducky said:

Here is a few questions I consider important.

--------------------------------------------------

Scenario: You have found another player and engaged them in conversation, the other player decides to point his rifle at you in a threatening manner and begins giving you instructions.

Which of the following statements are true?

1. The other player has validly initiated and gained ATTACKER RIGHTS.

2.  You have gained DEFENDER RIGHTS from the other player's action.

3. The other player has invalidly initiated and gains no rights.

4. You have not gained any rights from this encounter.

  Reveal hidden contents

1. True

2. True.

3. False

4. False

 

--------------------------------------------------

Scenario: You and your friend are chatting casually in discord while you are running around in game, you suddenly come across a stranger and begin talking with them. After a few minutes of discussion with the stranger, your friend asks you in Discord if you want to rob them.
 

Which of the following statements are true?

1. Your friend has broken rule 3.6.

2.  The stranger gains DEFENDER RIGHTS.

3. You have broken rule 1.1.

4. The encounter had no rules broken.

  Reveal hidden contents

1. True

2. False.

3. False

4. False

 

--------------------------------------------------

Scenario: You have just logged into your base after being offline for a few hours, as you stroll around your base you see another player trying to break down your wall, you decide to shoot them.
 

Which of the following statements are true?

1. You have made valid use of your ATTACKER RIGHTS.

2.  You failed to initiate and invalidly killed another player.

3. The other player was powergaming.

4. You do not need to initiate when someone is breaking into your base.

  Reveal hidden contents

1. False

2. True

3. False

4. False

 

 

I like these exact questions, as well as this style of multiple choice (multiple correct answer) questions, as it keeps people from just guessing out of four choices.

 

The only thing I'd ask with the above examples is that for question one, it be rephrased from.: 

Quote

Scenario: You have found another player and engaged them in conversation, the other player decides to point his rifle at you in a threatening manner and begins giving you instructions.

to something that is specific.... Like:

"... and tells you to follow them."

"... and tells you to put your hands in the air."

"... and tells you to keep your weapon holstered and don't say anything."

 

Otherwise, I like Duckys questions as they sit, and the basic theme of them.

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In all honesty I think the best thing would be to see what rules are the most broken by newcomers and have them put in as text answers and multiple choice answers for the general rules 

 

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I think the changes will help, If u guys need help with the new guide Ill Help, Just let me know

 

Also, I like the way @Ducky questions are set. I think some of those will help, they aren't complicated and if you read the rules you will understand the answer they also aren't generic RP questions either they are questions that pertain to our communities Ruleset.

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7 minutes ago, Voodoo said:

In all honesty I think the best thing would be to see what rules are the most broken by newcomers and have them put in as text answers and multiple choice answers for the general rules 

 

Albeit anecdotal, that is what I believe I have tried to do with my questions.

Recent reports show me that some whitenames newer members of the community are confused on what constitutes a hostile action with a threat to ones person, as well as confusion when it comes to bases and how to deal with intruders.

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What about the whitelist questions we wrote when I was admin? @Roland

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2 minutes ago, Roman said:

What about the whitelist questions we wrote when I was admin? @Roland

Rules have been completely rewritten since you were an admin. Not applicable anymore.

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As I know for a fact Roland isn't going to do written out rules, I will be ok with this....for now if it works.

I will write up a few questions and word them to the best of my abilities.

Though before I do that there are two questions I have about the improvements.

1. The Character page that will be required to be made, this will still be looked at by admins and accepted as normal correct?

2. With the whitelist failed counter, will there be a repercussion for those caught spamming the whitelist attempts? Such as they aren't even reading the rules, and just hoping to get the right answer sooner or later. Because as it is, this is probably an issue already and it needs to be fixed.

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As @Voodoo (Sorry for the tag) stated, I think it'd best to analyze reports, complaints and even the Discord to see where newer players slip up. 

As far as I'm told, staying IC both text and voice is a big one, have had multiple encounters personally but never caught them on video. Some lore based questions for sure, I remember in 2015, that was somewhat of a big part of the whitelist and the importance of using * as well as // when or if necessary.

Glad to see this in motion and I hope it works!

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Posted (edited)

Perform a meta analysis of all reports checking those who were guilty of a rulebreak and then check the hours played of those who were guilty.

You now have a spreadsheet of which rules newbies are more or less likely to break.

Spoiler

image.png.b107c11f2bc124d727d8a807b2163480.png

 

Edited by Caraham

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I'm busy today but I will write something up tomorrow , regarding the guide & co.

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Thank you thank you thank you thank you!

Would you ever reconsider re-implementing the three strikes rule?

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Posted (edited)

I like what Ducky wrote that cover Hostilities rules, since HostileRP is an important aspect of our community. 

However, I would like to see more questions and regarding how to act in a roleplay scenarios. This is a roleplay server after-all. Not a place to just shoot eachother and socialize with your friends, but to become a completely different person, by acting as your written character would in an apocalyptic scenario. I expect creativity, not one paragraph character pages, where a person never uses or acknowledges their character's background in-game.

 

Anyways, this is a rough-draft example of a roleplay question, but let me try...

Scenario: You're walking down the street in a small village, and notice another man casually walking towards you. What do you do?

  • A) Unholster your weapon and shoot him, as he could be a threat to your life.
  • B) Run the opposite direction and hope they aren't following you.
  • C) Keep on walking as if you didn't notice them, and ignore them if they acknowledge your presence.
  • D) Engage in conversation, or acknowledge their presence with a polite gesture, then continue walking.

 

Edited by CamoRP

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14 minutes ago, Whitename said:

Would you ever reconsider re-implementing the three strikes rule?

no way abandon thread GIF

No.

3 hours ago, Aiko said:

1. The Character page that will be required to be made, this will still be looked at by admins and accepted as normal correct?

2. With the whitelist failed counter, will there be a repercussion for those caught spamming the whitelist attempts? Such as they aren't even reading the rules, and just hoping to get the right answer sooner or later. Because as it is, this is probably an issue already and it needs to be fixed.

1. Yes

2. If found excessive, yes.

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I feel like @Ducky is spot on with how to word the questions so I'm going to just post the scenarios most commonly popping up right now.

  • Abuse of Game Mechanics / Ghosting. (Climbing on people's shoulders is kosher, blocking people from crawling under fences with platform placement is not, using the ladder to glitch through is not, slingshotting people through the fence hit box issue is not, etc.) Just because someone used AOGM doesn't mean they ghosted
  • BadRP/NVFL - What constitutes BadRP and NVFL

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Posted (edited)

I haven’t seen the new whitelist because I’m not keen on getting a Dual IP ban, but maybe present new whitelists with hypothetical situations in which a rule is broken, and ask them what rule was broken? 

Tommy gets initiated on by Alex. Tommy fails to comply and shoots at Alex. Alex’s friend Jason shoots Tommy in the head from 500 metres away in the trees. Jason and Alex are not part of an official group. Is there a rule-break in this scenario? If so, who broke the rule? Explain. 

 

Thats not too hard, and if the new guy actually read the rules it’s a quick answer

2 hours ago, Roland said:

No.

Too bad, was actually a good system. You should be able to get that shit in 3 tries anyways. Or two. whatever it was

Edited by Whitename

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Glad to see that this is finally being looked at! Thanks for getting the ball rolling @Roland, I, as I am sure many others, really appreciate it. Though, I would like to suggest that things like  ATTACKER RIGHTS and DEFENDERS RIGHTS should not be done with a Scenario Multiple Choice. They should be done in worded exposition or even, if possible, Voice Chat.

Scenarios that are possible in RP could be done in Multiple Choice, but I would think that we should keep that section at a minimum. We really should have people take the time to examine, type up, and present their own interpretations/opinions on some of the rules both RP and Community Forums. Several wonderful suggestions are available here in a thread I made, though I am sure you've read it.

Community Discussion Thread: https://www.dayzrp.com/forums/topic/97514-reinstate-older-white-list-application-process/

Various people of the Community, both known and not, as well as some of Staff have pitched a few there. Perhaps cross-referencing some ideas there would also be helpful.

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Good job, Ducky.  One of my favorite things you did was you had answers that referred to a rule # and nothing more. This requires the applicant to at least skim the rule to get valuable info which is a great trick. A couple of those types of questions can go a long way in force-educating reluctant readers.  

As far as information to add I would definitely mention props, emotes, and head movement as simple tools that can be used to improve RP.  I've had people message me after a counter-initiation who commended my performance and I didn't say a word—only walked around with a nailed bat making slow and deliberate eye contact while occasionally swinging at a wall or post while the interrogator spoke.

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Posted (edited)

You decided to try out a hostile role play style and take another role player hostage - What are you going to do in this situation?

1. I search the person as quick as I can for the gear I want and end the situation, so the role play can go on.

2. I let the hostage know I am new via OOC chat , so the person knows I am still learning how things work out in the server.

3. I role play in a hostile way which definitely leads to the death of the hostage, so the captured person wont come after me.

4. I make sure the encounter is enjoyable and supports potential story lines while the reason for capture is shown in the role play I provide.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

You encounter another player who insults you and goes on aiming his gun while he tells you to drop your rifle - What are you going to do in this situation?

1. I go along with the provided role play and comply or choose to kill the attacker by using my defensive rights.

2. If I did not give any reason for the person to be hostile, there are no attacker rights gained. I don't have to comply and can leave the situation.

3. I use my defender rights and kill the attacker and anyone I assume to be with him.

4. If another player insults me in game, I will tell him via VOIP to stop and let him know I will report him to staff.

____________________________________________________________________________________________

You witness a gun fight in the same town you are in - What are you going to do?

1. Since I am not involved in the situation, no rights are gained on my side and I am good to hang around.

2. I sneak around and see if I can grab some weapons off dead bodies, which I would need as a survivor of the apocalypse.

3. I holster my weapon and try to leave the area.

4. I take my weapon out and run up the next person I see to offer some support.

____________________________________________________________________________________________

You are being captured but somehow the role play seems slightly boring to you - What are you going to do?

1. If the role play I receive is bad I will let my hostage takers know via OOC chat.

2. I try to get more active in the situation and create new role play impulses.

3. I use the quickest way out of the situation and try to make the hostage takers kill me, so I can re-spawn and go on with my role play story.

4. It is the hostage takers responsibility to entertain me as a hostage. I remain quiet and wait until the situation is done.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________

You start to feel uncomfortable with the kind of role play provided towards you - What are you doing to do?

1. I keep it quiet and wait until the situation has ended.

2. I let the other role players know I feel uncomfortable with the role play via OOC - text chat.

3. I try and get myself killed, so I am done with the situation and can report the players to staff.

4. I will let the players know I will report them via VOIP , so they stop the provided role play.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

You decided to initiate on another player - What are you going to do?

1. I have to value my own life,  so I shoot the potential allies and then tell the person to drop their gun.

2. I sneak around the other player and try to tie him up, so he can't shoot me.

3. I aim my fire arm at the other player and give a demand like "Raise your hands!"

4. I try and hit or shoot the other person to unconsciousness, so I can tie up the knocked out hostage.

Edited by Ron

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On 6/14/2019 at 6:45 AM, Roland said:

I'm currently working on improving our whitelisting process. My plan is to do the following:

  1. Add a few additional questions which more thoroughly check rule knowledge of the applicant
  2. Add a new section to the newcomer guide with a text version of the YouTube clip that is currently present there (which is outdated anyway), which would explain basics of role playing and how it in practice works on our server
  3. Add newcomer guide passphrase to the whitelist, to force newcomers to read the guide above
  4. Update newcomer guide with a new information and improve layout to make it look nicer and more readable
  5. Instead of requiring a character background story, ask the applicant to create a character page. That way they immediately get familiar with the character system, don't have to write two stories (one during whitelist, another one for character page after getting whitelisted) and we can still check the story as normal.
  6. Get rid of whitelist application comments, since they are not helping at all
  7. Add a whitelist application attempt count, to highlight for staff people who have failed many times
  8. Make the denial message and reason more clearly visible for the applicant

 

I would need help of veterans in the community to help me with points 1 and 2. I need a few good questions about rules that are commonly misunderstood by the newcomers. I also need you to help to write a guide that will explain how role play works here on DayZRP from the very basics.

Proposed whitelist questions can be submitted here in this thread. To prevent unnecessary suggestions - no, we cannot do manual text "explanation" input answers. Only multiple choice.

The guide draft can be found here, everyone can add text and suggest  changes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1b6H8revUgiaHyrFbQ6BP53PHDY4F1LzCzOZlKyHJaWY/edit?usp=sharing

These look like good improvements, but it would be better if there was at least one lore question since most new people never read the lore, and think Chernarus is part of Russia and is an island.

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On 6/15/2019 at 7:39 AM, Ron said:

____________________________________________________________________________________________

You witness a gun fight in the same town you are in - What are you going to do?

1. Since I am not involved in the situation, no rights are gained on my side and I am good to hang around.

2. I sneak around and see if I can grab some weapons off dead bodies, which I would need as a survivor of the apocalypse.

3. I holster my weapon and try to leave the area.

4. I take my weapon out and run up the next person I see to offer some support.

____________________________________________________________________________________________

I like almost all of the questions Ron has come up with, other then the one quoted above.

 

The question and the answers are a bit too simple, because a situation like that has a lot going on that would determine or change whether an action is wise/rulebreak/right. I personally think you could argue all of those choices aren't necessarily wrong, and I don't think any of them are rule breaks. 

 

1) Technically they are right, no one has rights on them and from my understanding its not NVFL to find a spot to wait it out. This is actually 9 times out of ten the thing that I do; I sit in a building and wait out the shooting, because in my experience thats safer then trying to flee the area when there are people on overwatch.

2) This is probably the closest to flat-out wrong, yeah. In my eyes its not NVFL if you think you can get away with it... But on the very same token, if I personally was looting a corpse in a firefight and I knew no one had rights on me I sure as heck would not be reporting if someone domed me. My own dumb fault. But not a rule break?

4) I made this mistake one time, when I thought it was players vs infected, and not players vs players. Fortunately I didn't die. But again,  a gung-ho new player might want to run up and help, or see if its his friends and they need help, etc. Once again I personally wouldn't report if I got killed doing this cause I know the risk, but I also don't think its against the rules even if its unwise. I can't see someone getting an NVFL for this, but then again some interesting applications of that rule have happened.

 

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