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groovy cali

The Community and Obession of Bases (Rework Suggestion)

How do we overcome the issue of bases?  

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Posted (edited)

Through word by mouth, to break down a wall from the outside it takes more than an entire earth rotation on its axis. Regardless of the actual time, it's too damn long. Bases only encourage gear whoring, loot cycling, and things of the sort. In a real world scenario, if you leave your 'settlement' empty, someone can and will come and yoink your shit. But with the mechanics introduced by the dev team, it seem's to encourage the mindset of hoarding gear.

 

I personally have never grasped the idea of having a stockpile of 50+ guns, 15+ tents full of gear, underground staches, barrels out the ass, etc. for a base ran by less than 10 people. Even in the days of the infamous gun embargo in Novy, the confiscated guns were either used or just discarded in a lake somewhere to be respawned.

 

To correlate this argument, besides loot, what is there in a base to actually defend? Other than making it a literal unpenetrable fortress, what do bases have to offer other than potentially being a rp hub(if you are not isolating your base from the rest of the survivors)?

 

Ontop of this, apparently according to @Roland, removing wire from a gate when you log off is not considered AOGM, so now a permanent gate, which takes 15-30 minutes to knock down, now becomes just another wall with an extremely extensive(20+ hour) knockdown time.

 

Mind you, these 'bases' are just scrap wood/metal, some nails, and some rope. Materials that wouldn't survive a harsh gust of wind, needless a full grown man chopping it with an ax in reality.

 

The only way around this """mechanic""" is to use the ladders that were thankfully added by the dev team to get into some bases and break/open them from the inside. But say a ladder is a meter or two too short, or it plops you through a window. Is /that/ AOGM? Am I going to risk being permabanned because I'm a nosey fuck when it comes to people's bases due to me using a ladder to come through holes, or windows, or over the top? Or do I have to do deal with a 'ghosting/griefing' report everytime I mastermind my way into someones base?

 

My suggestion is; make walls either break at a REASONABLE time(20 minutes max), make it so taking wire out of gates is AOGM, or hear what the community has to say.

 

Please discuss/give input on this topic, I'd love to see if I'm just a salty cunt on the topic or if anyone else in the community thinks wooden/metal made walls are just a /tad/ bit Over powered.

 

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

kamenici when we see a base

5cdde16c9ffecf7925fb99e671652256.png

 

 

Edited by California

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I do get your point. It does really take a long time to break down walls. Which might be a bit unrealistic. But if the owners are not ingame, they probably are ''asleep'' inside the base. Which then again is also unrealistic because they would wake up whenever they hear someone bashing on their walls. I think the current system is fine for this reason. It is a good balance between both the owner and burgler.

Then on to the loot horder argument. I do agree that there are a lot of people that just stash up whetever they can find. Which ends up making no sense IC. On the other hand you also have people that build bases for pure RP reasoning and only bring in items that are RP related. I don't think this second group should be punished for the first groups abuses. 

Bases can have a lot of different IC meanings, but it mostly comes down to being some form of RP hub.

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3 minutes ago, baskorthuis said:

It is a good balance between both the owner and burgler.

It takes 27 hours to knock down a wall from what I've been told, explain how that is 'balance'? 

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I've heard its not AOGM because code locks will randomize themselves on restarts. As soon as that is fixed I think it will be balanced, til' then, well the shit's gon be broke. Idk I'm fine with gear hoarders, most bases are stupid easy to get into anyways so it's never really safe. I'd imagine people would hoard all sorts of shit in a real world example, it's just human nature to be greedy and we should deal with the problem IC. 

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2 minutes ago, Sxcomba said:

I've heard its not AOGM because code locks will randomize themselves on restarts. As soon as that is fixed I think it will be balanced, til' then, well the shit's gon be broke. Idk I'm fine with gear hoarders, most bases are stupid easy to get into anyways so it's never really safe. I'd imagine people would hoard all sorts of shit in a real world example, it's just human nature to be greedy and we should deal with the problem IC. 

My issue isn't the fact people gear whore, sure.

 

My issue is they put the greeded gear behind a wall that takes 20 hours to knock down with literally no way in or out.

3 minutes ago, Sxcomba said:

I've heard its not AOGM because code locks will randomize themselves on restarts

Then just cut the lock when you log in and replace it, it takes 10 minutes and provides fair play to 'burglars' and those at the base.

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2 minutes ago, Mexi said:

It takes 27 hours to knock down a wall from what I've been told, explain how that is 'balance'? 

Because it probably took the owner or builder of the base even way longer to set it up.

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3 minutes ago, Mexi said:

It takes 27 hours to knock down a wall from what I've been told, explain how that is 'balance'? 

To be fair, its 2.7 hours, not 27 hours. 9999 seconds, so 9999/60 = 166 minutes, 166/60 = 2.7 hours.

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1 minute ago, G19RP said:

To be fair, its 2.7 hours, not 27 hours. 9999 seconds, so 9999/60 = 166 minutes, 166/60 = 2.7 hours.

Word of mouth reached me with 27 hours, wasn't told specifics and wasn't corrected when speaking with Aeryes about it but thanks for the information.

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I thought it was 99,999 seconds?

Honestly, I don’t see an issue with this. Yeah, I take issue with everyone hoarding all the good equipment (I haven’t seen an AK or high tier military weapon spawn in a week) but this isn’t the issue you’re discussing. I’d be all for removing the ability to store guns at all in anything but gun racks, and limiting the amount of guns a group/base can have. Everything else is fine.

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2 minutes ago, G19RP said:

To be fair, its 2.7 hours, not 27 hours. 9999 seconds, so 9999/60 = 166 minutes, 166/60 = 2.7 hours.

Quite frank anything over 20 minutes is quite mad. You're just holding a button down, unable to eat/drink/etc. because you're forced to click and hold a button.

It's not like BUILDING the wall, where it can be a group effort, made into a characters story line, etc. They can take breaks between building the wall, the wall itself only takes a handful of minutes with some tools to put up, so how 2.7 hours of clicking LMB is 'balanced' just blows me away.

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Just now, California said:

My issue isn't the fact people gear whore, sure.

 

My issue is they put the greeded gear behind a wall that takes 20 hours to knock down with literally no way in or out.

Then just cut the lock when you log in and replace it, it takes 10 minutes and provides fair play to 'burglars' and those at the base.

I mean yeah that would work but cutting it and finding a new one every time ya log in would be a major pain. Personally I've found ladders to be a perfect counter. People can't build 3 high unless they do some serious cheer leading pyramid buddy boosts or make all watch towers - which isn't likely. I agree walls are stupid OP right now, no way it should take 2.7 hours of me holding left click and sneezing to lose all my progress, 10-20 minutes should be reasonable. 

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1 minute ago, California said:

Quite frank anything over 20 minutes is quite mad. You're just holding a button down, unable to eat/drink/etc. because you're forced to click and hold a button.

It's not like BUILDING the wall, where it can be a group effort, made into a characters story line, etc. They can take breaks between building the wall, the wall itself only takes a handful of minutes with some tools to put up, so how 2.7 hours of clicking LMB is 'balanced' just blows me away.

If brute-forcing your way in is too hard or takes too long just take the RP route, wait for them to show up, make it a gate or open it up and strike then. Not all raids need to be offline, or telegraphed for the defender. You can starve people out worse case scenario but that would take even longer. Most bases have a way in or out with ladders, but some dont, if you really need access to those that dont have a way in then I just suggest waiting for them to slip up. I fell like the way it is now is just fine, if the time is lowered at all it will just make building storage rooms irrelevant again, no point in spending days of IRL time building x amount of walls for a 20 minute breaking and entering. 

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Posted (edited)

I just want to say the people that want to keep it how it is are only saying that because their happy sitting untouchable in there base with a million different guns

Edited by PapaMeme

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I agree with @G19RP building a base doesn't take just a singular second, it takes the time to gather the supplies and build it.

I remember when the time was relatively low that people would logon to find every single wall destroyed, out of pure spite for a group.

I enjoy that bases are a very permanent thing, the reward inside is enormous, while we might not be able to force our way in on every base this does mean there is the route of RP to deal with this. I think it is fine as it is right now, I would hate for people to feel discouraged from building these enormous structures that bring life to the wasteland, just because they feel that the risk-reward is no longer worth it.

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3 minutes ago, G19RP said:

If brute-forcing your way in is too hard or takes too long just take the RP route, wait for them to show up, make it a gate or open it up and strike then. Not all raids need to be offline, or telegraphed for the defender. You can starve people out worse case scenario but that would take even longer. Most bases have a way in or out with ladders, but some dont, if you really need access to those that dont have a way in then I just suggest waiting for them to slip up. I fell like the way it is now is just fine, if the time is lowered at all it will just make building storage rooms irrelevant again, no point in spending days of IRL time building x amount of walls for a 20 minute breaking and entering. 

I think this is the way to go. Doing everything while the owners are ingame makes it so much more fun for both sides. Some great RP could evolve from it, instead of slipping in there when noone is ingame. 

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My honest opinion though is a lot of times bases make RP stale and people never want to leave there base. Walls should be able to be breached and the owners should have to defend it if they want to keep it. 

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MOSHI MOSHI! SUGOI KAWAII EX ADMIN AIKO DESU!

Anyway I talked to Roland about this a bit, along with Ducky.

I actually don't mind it taking some time, if its 27 hours that's a bit much. And we suggested certain items that would bring that time down. Such as sledge hammers which the spawn for it would decrease, but would break the item making unusable after.

I also think an issue is having to hold the button the WHOLE TIME. It be a different story if you didn't have to hold it the whole time.

In the sense of rp, why does it matter what someone does in their base? Its the rp they like. I mean sure raid them or you know whatever. Though the rp that happens at bases shouldn't be a issue here.

Maybe in the future even the locks are fixed and all it will be AOGM. But I think it's fine till something can be implemented.

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Posted (edited)

Make gates brittle and leave it at that. I'd rather see a bunch of hard to break bases rather than peeps who "absolutely 100% need to take down 19/20 of the walls of a base to get inside to get the loot out due to one of our members Rping claustrophobia" or some other convinient BS :L 

Personally think bases should be used for RP and not gear whoring, so I feel your plight, (hell, with the DayZRP flag system, it makes gear whoring actually damage the server by removing items from the loot economy).

So yeah, make gates more brittle, keep walls as is. Lot easier to get a gate rebuilt than all the walls. 

FYI: On the other foot, I believe that spending all day base hunting is a waste of player slots on the server. So thats a +1 to changing how long it takes to break into bases... however it's also a +1 for groups to stop going around looting up via channelling their inner"Steve Irwin, Player Base hunter"

Edited by The Traveler

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2 hours ago, California said:

 In a real world scenario, if you leave your 'settlement' empty, someone can and will come and yoink your shit. 

 

 

no one (maybe dumbasses)would do this in a real world scenario, there would be ever some guards around to protect the home.

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I mean yesterday i was dying of thirst, found a town that has a water pump (wont name it here so the base is safe) only to find a base was built around the pump and the gate had been turned onto a wall meaning no access whatsoever. Lucky enough i managed to find a lake nearby and got to it whilst on red health. Few seconds too late and id be dead.

Brought it up with @Roland who said it was fine to turn gates into walls and to take over much needed services such as a water pump. Now had a gate been available or less time to break in id actually be able to get to the water pump. So what im trying to say is:

1. At what point do we say its ok to take over a service? Can i wall off the entire NWAF in order to keep everyone out? Can i build around every single well and lake on the map in order to charge everyone to drink?

It was always a case that in the past any base building could not take over and stop other players gaining the same advantage by walling off barracks and other high loot buildings. Aswell as this you must have 2 entrances (as was the case in the mod with various settlements). 

If we are to allow these services to be blocked off then walls need to have a reduced timer to break into or it needs to be compulsory that it is AOGM to take away a gate and make it a wall. Go to your nearest gate outside and undo the hinges, it wont be a wall.

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, RebelRP said:

For me this topic seems about being able to raid/ruin some1s base when they’re offline which seems counter productive for RP. If you want to get into a base, rp it, give off ultimatums, catch them as they go out for supply runs. Build ladders to get in and out. If it wasnt so hard to break down walls like it is now, it wouldnt be worth having a base. I mean literally, even now people find ways into your base just to despawn gear, it’s happened to us plenty. we should keep it as it is

its not about when there offline its when there online and they remove the gate there is no way to get in because if you use the ladder you fall down just to be mowed down by defenders waiting on the other side while you still have to draw your weapon from the fall. When it would be way more fun for both sides if we could actually get there gate open. people also had bases before it took 1000 hrs to remove the gate and that worked fine in my opinion

Edited by PapaMeme

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2 minutes ago, RebelRP said:

 

6 minutes ago, PapaMeme said:

its not about when there offline its when there online and they remove the gate there is no way to get in because if you use the ladder you fall down just to be mowed down by defenders waiting on the other side while you still have to draw your weapon from the fall. When it would be way more fun for both sides if we could actually get there gate open. people also had bases before it took 1000 hrs to remove the gate and that worked fine in my opinion

Read more  

You can get killed just as simply when bashing down the walls, tbh its about luck, numbers and strategy. Use plenty of ladders and have the numbers or just know what you’re doing and you should be fine. It shouldnt be easy attacking a settlement, it should be a challenge

 

I agree, even the most impenetrable bases have weaknesses, Kordruga had one and it took our monkey gang 5 minutes and a few ladders to get in, Bronn really had it right, “Give me ten good men and some climbing spikes and I’ll impregnate the bitch”.

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9 minutes ago, RebelRP said:

You can get killed just as simply when bashing down the walls, tbh its about luck, numbers and strategy. Use plenty of ladders and have the numbers or just know what you’re doing and you should be fine. It shouldnt be easy attacking a settlement, it should be a challenge

it is a challenge just not a balanced one to even have a chance in an assualt you need atleast double the numbers that doesnt seem fair why cant i just crack open the front gate and force them to come out or be shot 10 mins is balanced even 15 mins there both balanced but 2 hrs is legit insane in my opinion.

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DHello California. I currently own a pretty big base within NWAF and I'd like to go ahead and speak my mind about a few things.

Now I do agree, bases should not be a way of hoarding loot, but this game is DayZ and the developers at Bohemia did not focus on roleplaying players as the focus.

There is one big issue that sits above all: Why do you want to raid bases so much? 

Personally I can see why, but there is no RP in raiding offline. The base building system should allow RP and create a hub as well as storage and create RP. You can raid players very easily right now and if they have no entrance and they just ghost into their base, there is a report section for a reason. Also wiretricking...

The system of wiretricking is not AOGM partly because we have to lock our base AND we have to keep our base unlocked or risk having to ghost in which is against the rules. This whole arguement is because players have gone to doing this because the combo locks are bugged.

I can assure you that once the bug is patched and wiretricking is AOGM once again there will be no issues. Builders like myself hate not being able to lock their base. I've build 100s of walls and gates since the building update and even we want the time invested to pay off and NOT be offline raided. 

I recommend you focus on the RP that comes out of a base interaction and not the gear. 

-DeagleERP builder for old groups such as Elektro Commune, United Nations, and Denigrata

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