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Axel Volaris

S1: Griefing just outside of Kamenka, between 4:00PM and 10:00PM

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Posted (edited)

Server and location: Server 1

Approximate time and date of the incident (SERVER TIME): May 7th 4:00pm to 10:00pm

Your in game name: Alex Davis

Names of allies involved: Jake Lawson, Merik Davis, James Dermont

Name of suspect/s: DIscord name, Misho (he contacted me)

Friendly/Enemy vehicles involved (if any):  1 Olga which was stolen

Additional evidence? (video/screenshot):  Video proof will be uploaded tonight

Detailed description of the events:  our base which was completely encased with fences and watchtowers was broken into damaging the base and several items including: a generator, two floodlights, two cables, two battery chargers, 3 boxes of nails + 70 loose nails. was stolen including a car. the car in question was full of other car parts so when the other items were stolen its reasonable to believe the spare parts were taken out and left to de-spawn.
i believe this is a direct violation of rule 4.8 as this is considered griefing base on the fact that our base was damaged with no need as no survival items were stolen, only items that are used to build a base, had items such as ammunition or food/water even guns been taken then i could understand a need "survival" but a vehicle is a vanity item, the only real reason for destroying a 2 man effort (eventually 2 other joined us) to build a base taking well over 20+ hours to complete, was merely only "I want it."  I'll also leave not that the party involved in destroying our structure also took all but 8 nails making it extremely difficult to repair the damage, leaving us open for people to waltz in and pick our stuff dry.

Edited by Axel Volaris

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Calling in @Misho for their full detailed POV of this situation. Please also list all of your allies that were involved. 

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Posted (edited)

Hi there, I hope this is okay since I am involved (my character being Jake Lawson).

We actually were on and did a bit of travelling north - logged off, took a break and then we came back after logging back on and I saw that the base had been opened completely and our vehicle gone, nails gone and a bunch of other stuff. I will add screenshots to save time, but video can be provided if you want it as I can show before/after on screenshots but video if you feel it isn't accurate enough.

We are all pretty new characters, so to that extent one could assume that we don't know the rules as thoroughly as some veterans. Now, our base was completely walled off, with barbed wire (on the fence that was taken down), the car was gone with everything in it (it had 2 or 3 tyres inside with things, our tents were also full). Now, rule 4.8 Griefing is act of damaging or destroying a player base, storage container, vehicles or their contents using OOC knowledge, ill intent or doing so without IC reasoning that is proportionate to the damage done. states that destroying a player base, container, vehicles or contents using OOC knowledge; there is no proof that said individual had used OOC knowledge. However, from what I can see within roleplay reasons, keeping things realistic etc. I cannot see much of an IN CHARACTER reason for this individual to destroy the walls, take the nails AND our things to rebuild it with, take our car and half of our tents things? The car had no space really to take things and I don't believe he could have packed this all in his backpack. 

My main problem is leaving us with little to rebuild it with. I understand getting in, taking a few things and getting the hell out of there. Like destroying a lower wall and crawling through, grabbing some items (food, weapons etc.) that are needed for survival but a car and then all its stuff and half of our tents items? I can't see an in character reason. Looking at Misho's character, he is neutral good - so what does he need the car for? To escape Chernarus? We know there is no way out - right? We aren't looking to punish necessarily but to see what the standing here is. Personally, we've walked around and looked inside bases that are abandoned (because 2 or more walls are missing, nothing inside but maybe a few items) and at times taken some food, water or even ammo - but to take all the items, drop them and leave them? Doesn't seem very RP to me. 

I apologise for the lengthy text and possibly very badly written text that you may have to decipher. Attached below are some screenshots of things that were there and not there: 

Car almost full: 

f439c90b072eba952be0435897928e0f.png

Generator and lights:

b74aea19d9e0af92d6d7a4cbe9ab04c4.jpg

Big Tent almost full:

afd15786124bde07e5092a2b2c662e2a.png

Medium tent full:

b894cb9c26e259a0d2de8642a399369f.jpg

Me walking back, whole fence/wire gone:

dfcae6653919117f062a8121a7638540.jpg

Motor oil dropped, cases ahead dug up and left. 67d73ad4674c95250abcc5f4ee3c9442.jpg

Tent emptied a little, possibly some items added in:

73c4691dff8aec2fa1d8e2743162a4bd.png

Other tent emptied:

d90354a6a49ee8dbd00ffe25194048b8.png

Now, part of me isn't too bothered about the tents because - well, it's DayZ - however, I can't really think of much of an RP reason to do what was done. Especially since so many items went missing, with the lights/generators and vehicle. I like to RP that people are asleep in bases that are walled off, no walls down etc. But possibly not everyone does; because you could assume people are sleeping etc. inside the tent and would hear the noise. The car, it's more of a vanity item; that isn't needed for survival - we got raided the other day, the lower wall was broken and they took a few items - only what they needed. Nothing was dropped, just took items they needed for survival; that's okay. This, doesn't seem more than just base raiding for the hell of it. 

Another thing, characters are smaller than walls - how would he see a car inside? How would he know this? Did he come before, come back just to steal the car? But for what reason? Ever since this happened, I've logged on once to see the status of the base; nothing else has been taken.

Edited by Deaytch

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@Timeless Zombie Was with me at the time of the base raid.

I reached out to the OP to clarify our end of it and I have nothing against them personally, I just found some of their logic lacking.

-----------------

My POV:

Me and Timeless were coming down the coast RPing looking for supplies and a possible vehicle for a means of safer travels as well as a possible way out of Chernarus, our characters were before the outbreak on a travel and our goal is to survive but also trying to get back to our countries and families, even if they are overrun by this point and the chances are low.

At some point I spotted something in the forest near the main road down the coast and we went to investigate, there being a car in the small enclosed base as well as two tents and some other stuff on the ground. We stuck around for a bit announcing ourselves to look for some kind of response but none was given, at this time the server was at a pretty high count I recall and there's no way for us to know if the owners are offline or out doing stuff elsewhere. We discussed it for a bit and decided that we needed to take the chance to obtain the vehicle for our goal of escaping Chernarus.

So we started hacking down the wall to get in, when we got in we discussed what we might need on our travel on the road and decided that some base items would be necessary for us to make a shelter for ourselves in the vast wasteland of the former world and since there was finally a vehicle available for us, it would make sense to load it all in it. So we took what we needed and left, without further destroying walls nor tents or anything else. I loaded over stuff from the car that we couldn't carry into the tents and we left.

The rules state that griefing is damage that is not in proportion with IC goals, our IC goal clearly gives us an excuse to steal a vehicle and necessary items to survive our travel. We did not damage anything past what was needed to achieve said goal. We had no ill intent towards the owners, instead it's a pure RP reason for our characters to acquire what we needed.

As for someone roleplaying sleeping in their tents, sure you can do that but that's an OOC decision which I can not possibly know in game, neither can you say that the walls are higher than a character. While we have no mechanic to look over walls, we can RP *emote* out standing on each others shoulders or other means of looking over them.

I believe that we have done everything according to rules as we only took what we would need for our goals, we already had food and ammo with us, we needed transportation and some supplies to keep the car in top notch(a battery charger and wires, motor oil etc.) as well as some construction materials to have shelter along our RP travels. Had we chopped down more walls than needed or de spawned all your stuff and stolen your tents even, I can see it being otherwise but in this case we took the bare minimum while doing the minimum amount of damage to your base.

-----------------

I find it insulting that the OP and his friend imply that we had no IC goals to achieve with our raid when they can not possibly know that. What IC reason do you then have for having a closed base in the middle of the forest ?

I have neither pictures nor video because this was to me a clear case of a regular old raid without any grieving involved and with no ill intent towards the base owners, I only did what my character would do in this case.

As a last note, I am for base protection by possible mechanics yet to be implemented but as we neither have those nor specific base raid rules set, I am going to use my right same as anyone else within the bounds of the current rules we do have. A base is not a safezone for your gear.

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as you surely know lore states that your character has been there for at least 2 years now. im sure if logs can go back far enough to show you would have had a car in the past, using a car to escape to your countries of origin is a scapegoat that you are using to defend yourselves. again, had you taken survival items it would be believable. and sleeping is not an OOC decision, anytime a character who is in an RP situation has to log out they mention they are going to "take a nap, go to sleep, lay down for a bit" that isn't news. Perhaps instead of roaming the coast looking for bases to raid you should work for your things as the rest of us has done.

as a side note, I have not intended to be insulting in the least. I am merely a player who built a base and based on the rules only done so because i generally thought what i was doing was to have own support, you have been in my base, you could tell we were not hoarding or anything of the sort. and again its unfortunate that we had not been there cause had we been there we would have helped you out. maybe not give you a car but most likely the nails we wouldnt of needed to finish our watchtower. we all play peaceful traders and friendly individuals.

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Building Logs:

20:12:12 | Player "Kunta Mozazishala" (pos=<1487.6, 2444.6, 12.4>) dismantled Fence with Hatchet

Connection Logs:

19:57:52 | Player "Kunta Mozazishala" is connected
20:32:40 | Player "Kunta Mozazishala" has been disconnected
20:32:51 | Player "Kunta Mozazishala" is connected
21:27:49 | Player "Kunta Mozazishala" has been disconnected
21:33:32 | Player "Kunta Mozazishala" is connected
21:37:10 | Player "Kunta Mozazishala" has been disconnected

19:57:49 | Player "Michael Baker" is connected
21:27:50 | Player "Michael Baker" has been disconnected

Calling in:

@Misho - Kunta Mozazishala | POSTED

@Timeless Zombie - Michael Baker

For their Full Detailed POV. Along with any other evidence that they may have. Please also list all of your allies that were involved.

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Posted (edited)
58 minutes ago, Misho said:

@Timeless Zombie Was with me at the time of the base raid.

I reached out to the OP to clarify our end of it and I have nothing against them personally, I just found some of their logic lacking.

-----------------

My POV:

Me and Timeless were coming down the coast RPing looking for supplies and a possible vehicle for a means of safer travels as well as a possible way out of Chernarus, our characters were before the outbreak on a travel and our goal is to survive but also trying to get back to our countries and families, even if they are overrun by this point and the chances are low.

At some point I spotted something in the forest near the main road down the coast and we went to investigate, there being a car in the small enclosed base as well as two tents and some other stuff on the ground. We stuck around for a bit announcing ourselves to look for some kind of response but none was given, at this time the server was at a pretty high count I recall and there's no way for us to know if the owners are offline or out doing stuff elsewhere. We discussed it for a bit and decided that we needed to take the chance to obtain the vehicle for our goal of escaping Chernarus.

So we started hacking down the wall to get in, when we got in we discussed what we might need on our travel on the road and decided that some base items would be necessary for us to make a shelter for ourselves in the vast wasteland of the former world and since there was finally a vehicle available for us, it would make sense to load it all in it. So we took what we needed and left, without further destroying walls nor tents or anything else. I loaded over stuff from the car that we couldn't carry into the tents and we left.

The rules state that griefing is damage that is not in proportion with IC goals, our IC goal clearly gives us an excuse to steal a vehicle and necessary items to survive our travel. We did not damage anything past what was needed to achieve said goal. We had no ill intent towards the owners, instead it's a pure RP reason for our characters to acquire what we needed.

As for someone roleplaying sleeping in their tents, sure you can do that but that's an OOC decision which I can not possibly know in game, neither can you say that the walls are higher than a character. While we have no mechanic to look over walls, we can RP *emote* out standing on each others shoulders or other means of looking over them.

I believe that we have done everything according to rules as we only took what we would need for our goals, we already had food and ammo with us, we needed transportation and some supplies to keep the car in top notch(a battery charger and wires, motor oil etc.) as well as some construction materials to have shelter along our RP travels. Had we chopped down more walls than needed or de spawned all your stuff and stolen your tents even, I can see it being otherwise but in this case we took the bare minimum while doing the minimum amount of damage to your base.

-----------------

I find it insulting that the OP and his friend imply that we had no IC goals to achieve with our raid when they can not possibly know that. What IC reason do you then have for having a closed base in the middle of the forest ?

I have neither pictures nor video because this was to me a clear case of a regular old raid without any grieving involved and with no ill intent towards the base owners, I only did what my character would do in this case.

As a last note, I am for base protection by possible mechanics yet to be implemented but as we neither have those nor specific base raid rules set, I am going to use my right same as anyone else within the bounds of the current rules we do have. A base is not a safezone for your gear.

Hi Misho,


Firstly apologies that you find it insulting. I'll start by saying, we had 270 nails in total; we were left none. How could we possibly be able to build up after that? Why did you need generator and lights if you were escaping? We understand a base is not a safe-zone for our gear, where are the tyres from the car? They must have been dropped... They were not in the tents. I know we can go around in circles here etc. but your characters have been here for two years already, no? They decide that they want to get out now? Sure you can have those goals but it's been well over 650 days - why would they come to Chernarus then to escape it? 

I see you changed your characters alignment, this was it before:

507d8ffaa0538f85ac92553b2b9634d3.png

This is it now:

b14617ad5cf580d9d95e6e918d359a34.jpg

Suddenly your character that you have played on for a fair bit, decides to change his whole story? I also notice you told the OP here that your character does not have to have been in Chernarus for all that time, it could have arrived the last week. How? How did he/she get in to Chernarus? Your character went from neutral good to chaotic neutral in a short time, since we posted this report. 

Honestly, I am sorry if you feel insulted but all roads are blocked out of Chernarus, even part of the Lore states:

"Many civilians who had not already left or been evacuated fled to the Vavilovo and Kamenka checkpoints, bottlenecking the road and making it impossible for any vehicles to leave along the main highways headed into Miroslavl province".

I'm sorry, I don't mean any disrespect as you are a developer and contribute a lot to this community for sure. However, this role-play was not thought out. You state you wanted to get out, but then state you could have arrived 2 weeks before, even though we know the roads are blocked off/closed. 

At the end of the day, you took more than what was needed. It would be great if logs could be shared with all involved. I understand you have been here longer, have a better reputation etc. but I can't help but think this was just for base raiding purposes. You cannot see the base from the road, you have to go in to the forest to see it; it's pretty damn hard to go see it from the roads. 

The Motor Oil was outside when I ran down, so we missed you by a little; which begs the question, where did the tyres go? You didn't need 3 tyres with a fixed car. I thank you for the response but I'd like to see any evidence of yourself/your friend. All the information is very convenient and doesn't match all too well with your conversation with the OP on discord; which he can post later on should he wish to.

I will wait patiently for an admin to respond with their views; we hope to solve this fairly and responsibly. All four of us joined this server, and met in character, to then make the base together etc. We joined for the same reason, to avoid the constant crap from normal DayZ servers and I personally joined after watching good RP from streamers.

To add, here are some screenshots from the road looking directly towards our base:

20190508230846_1.jpg

20190508230825_1.jpg

20190508230834_1.jpg

Thank you Randy for the log, I see they both connect at the same time (roughly) but also disconnect at the same time (roughly). Could be server issues.

To find the base within 10 minutes, makes me think these are the individuals who raided the other day and came back; would that be you Kunta/Michael? I can provide date stamp if needs be.

Edited by Deaytch

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as mentioned by Jake here are the convo's

Axelmisho1.png

Axelmisho2.png

Axelmisho3.png

for some reason it wont allow me to send the final message so I will copy the text and send it.

Axel_VolarisToday at 1:26 PM

and a healthier player base

see thats the thing if you had been starving or without protection yeah

but there is no need in stealing a car

i see the need there

with food

i even put a gun in the tent incase someone did break in and needed protection

a vehicle is an unnecessary vanity item

there bottom line is no dire need

KidariToday at 1:28 PM

Well if your IC goal is to escape Chernarus a vehicle is a very useful tool in your quest.

Axel_VolarisToday at 1:29 PM

its been 2 years ingame you said you had been playing since 2014 pluss you came from one of the only 2 road exits out. you know its blocked off

the problem is that you can "BS" any reason for stealing it. but bottom line is that it did not directly effect your characters overall survival chances or quality of life albeit making movement more convenient(edited)

KidariToday at 1:32 PM

My character does not need to have been in Chernarus for all that time. I could have arrived there last week for all you know.

Axel_VolarisToday at 1:34 PM

only you know that, so i guess that means you have a BS card, get out of jail free card. either way, I hope the administration sees this for what it is, A violation of the rules and an exploit of convenience

KidariToday at 1:35 PM

Alright man. I just wanted to reach out personally but the rest is for the report.

Axel_VolarisToday at 1:38 PM

sounds good. as well I have nothing against you. I hope we encounter each other and have some good RP. My issue was never with you. my issue is with the fact I spent a good 20+ hours building a base, based on the rules i read to protect stuff I worked hard to get. and in my eyes that rule was broken translating into all the stuff i worked to get was gone 20+ hours down the drain

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I did change my character a bit om my page yes, mostly because my previous story was lacking and that recent ingame events with others have changed the moral views of my chatacter, that is however a different issue altogether and not IC information you could judge my actions based on.

I dont belive we took more than we needed nor did we take it just to spite you but for our own characters needs.

As for finding your base, yes I did see it from the road, now if that is because our graphical settings differ or I have eagle eyes, that's unclear.

 

My character does not have to have been in Chernarus for 2 years at all. While I have great respect for the loreteam, it is aguidline and not a rule to follow it. In reality Ive only played this character for a few weeks at most and could have arrived by different means into Chernarus trough an uncontrolled border(2 years past, no government) My character does not yet know if he can escspe or not.

 

I see no point in going back and forth anymore, I don't mind if discord chat is posted, frankly I reached out to OP to give an explanation and my POV since I saw him posting in the discord channel. What I said there is the same thing I am saying here. We did what our characters needed to do within reason and what we belive is within the rules the server uses currently.

I refrain from further comments and leave it to staff to judge.

 

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Posted (edited)

if you read the bit on the lore youd know they are not just guidelines, and infact a singular story that ties us all together

 

The DayZRP lore is a story that develops a structure for the server, and helps members develop their own characters and stories based around the timeline and story that the DayZRP lore provides. The lore is intended to ensure every roleplayer is on the same page in regards to the server's time, location, infection details, and the series of events that lead to the present day. If we allowed every player to create their own worldly lore story then it would make an unclear understanding of both time and place within the server, and lead to confusion. Following a single lore helps avoid conflictions between player's stories regarding the outbreak.

As a new member of DayZRP you will need to read the lore, and develop a character that can properly fit into the story, which does not conflict with the lore by a large measure. For example a new member may create a character backstory that states, "In 2010 Henry woke up in Russia finding out his wife turned into an infected, and he had to escape!" The issue in this example is that the infection did not start in 2010 or in Russia. This example is considered a confliction with the official lore. If this player were to state this in character it would simply confuse others because it does not follow the official lore scope.

This of course does not mean we are trying to limit creativity in player backstories. We still encourage players to have write a great backstory for their character as long as it is within the proper timeframe of the lore. Your whitelist can be denied if your backstory is too conflicting with the lore such as the example in the previous paragraph.

Remember this when developing a character and entering the server because your character should by now have adopted many survival skills. Your character does not have to fully understand Chernarus' history especially if the character is a foreigner, however, your character should be familiar with the infection as it has spread worldwide. You should not be acting as if your character just arrived on the shore of Chernarus, and has never seen infected before.

 

 

 

thats the first paragraph on the lore. this isn't Pirates of the Caribbean, and they're not more like Guide lines than actual rules.

 

Im going to leave this for the staff as well, but given all I have seen so far, it looks like two people knew were a base was, sometime before perhaps stole a little maybe not i cannot say. logged off. then logged back on with the sole intent on stealing the car, and base supplies, then fabricated a story to defend their actions. so I suppose now that you know theres no way out you'll return the car? since you have no need of it ? oh wait i forgot your alignment is now Chaotic Neutral.... maybe the Neutral Good Kunta would have but now hes had a life altering moral standing change in the last 2 weeks?

 

I had to get that out have at'er staff. Ill respect your decisions.

Edited by Axel Volaris

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When you build something, I understand that it is not fun when people take some of your stuff. But we do it within the rules of the RP. We never ruin stuff of break stuff!!

We use cars for our base and to look for a way out of Chernarus. We have not emptied the tents. And we only took down one wall to get the car out. We don't know you and have no ill intent towards you or other players.

We checked if someone was there by yelling and looking for movement. There was nobody responding or moving. So we found out it was abandoned.

People need food and supplies. If we have the choice to go into a base without infected or go to a city full of infected, that choice is easy peasy.

We took some supplies and took one of your cars. We did not wreck anything. We did not empty anything. We did not take down more than one wall to get the car out. We definitely did not emptied your tents.


I will wait for staff to make their decision with no more comments unless asked by them.

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out of curiosity, would you be able to check the logs for the previous day around the same time? we had been broken into then aswell however the damages of course was minimal, and only survival items were taken, now if it were the same people twice, I would wager to assume this a form of harassment. of course I could be wrong 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Timeless Zombie said:

When you build something, I understand that it is not fun when people take some of your stuff. But we do it within the rules of the RP. We never ruin stuff of break stuff!!

We use cars for our base and to look for a way out of Chernarus. We have not emptied the tents. And we only took down one wall to get the car out. We don't know you and have no ill intent towards you or other players.

We checked if someone was there by yelling and looking for movement. There was nobody responding or moving. So we found out it was abandoned.

People need food and supplies. If we have the choice to go into a base without infected or go to a city full of infected, that choice is easy peasy.

We took some supplies and took one of your cars. We did not wreck anything. We did not empty anything. We did not take down more than one wall to get the car out. We definitely did not emptied your tents.


I will wait for staff to make their decision with no more comments unless asked by them.

Thanks for your response. 270 nails is not needed for "survival". We only had one car at this point, so it seems you knew we had more than one car? It'd be interesting to see logs from the previous day at approximately 7-10PM GMT 6th May 2019. That's when we had two cars - so it would be interesting if one of you came beforehand too. 

Again, this is speculative but for survival, you did not need all that was taken. Just because you hear no response, a base with full walls up without holes or bits missing is clearly not abandoned. Regardless, I get you CAN go and raid bases - that's fine, but taking way more than necessary.

Edited by Deaytch

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Cut out the back and forth. You all have provided your POVs. Please only post more if you have new evidence to add or you have been called in. This is the only warning. 

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Outcome:

@Misho - Griefing | Not Guilty

Explanation:

To shortly summarize the situation, @Misho & @Timeless Zombie spot a base and check it out. After finding no one around they decide to break in to see what was going on. Once they are in by break a single wall. They gather gear that they will need for the future and take the car that was stored in the base for easy travel and transportation of gear.

A Team of Staff Members have looked over this report. We have deemed what @Misho did Not Griefing. He only destroyed one wall to gain entry and didn't despawn anything like tents, barrels, gear, etc. The only things that were stolen were building items, a few other pieces that their characters needed, and the car. This is not considered griefing because nothing was destroyed or taken with ill intent. Everything that happened had IC reasoning behind it with minimal damage done to the base.

The rule that supports this verdict:

  • 4.8 Griefing is act of damaging or destroying a player base, storage container, vehicles or their contents using OOC knowledge, ill intent or doing so without IC reasoning that is proportionate to the damage done.

Before I close out I would like to make a few suggestion. When it comes to breaking into bases, only destroy things that are necessary for you to gain entry and exit from the base. Please keep in mind that if you are going to be taking a storage container please try and make an effort to store the remaining gear from that storage container into another one so the gear that is left behind doesn't despawn.

Verdict:

@Misho - Griefing | Not Guilty

Signed by: @Onyx & @RandyRP w/ Notes

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