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Jackfish

Community opinion

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Posted (edited)

People should be found guilty of filing a false report if they report a rule break while knowing no such rule break occurred (a.k.a., lying in a report).  People should not be found guilty of filing a false report if they are mistaken or didn’t interpret the rules correctly.  

We discussed False Reports back in April. 

Also, please stop blowing people away because they talk back at the start of a hostage situation.  Instead, play off the back talk, use it to ramp-up the hostile RP.

Find another way to regain control if the back talk gets out of hand.  Emote punching them in the gut, punching them in the face, or even fire a warning shot next to where they stand.  If they repeatedly ignore your warnings, then do what you have to do.

Edited by Mia

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I think the false report was a little over the line he obviously believed there was a break in the rules and put a lot of effort into making the report. I Can understand why they were both shot but at the same time I think more rp could have been had before just blasting him in the field. Im also confused how it could not be discovered if ZorrullRP  broke NLR.

- USER HAS BEEN WARNED FOR THIS SECTION OF THE POST -

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Not a good idea to put the thread up when you're appeal is up, but really that only counts for staff since they are involved with it. Either way how that report got badrp or false report is beyond me. 

You had reason to put the report up simple as that everyone has that right to put one up if they feel a rule was broken, it would've been different if you shot him after being initiated on and then tried reported him for badrp for killing you or some shit. Imo false report should only be used when there is malicious intent or when you have broken the same rule you are reporting for; which actually brings the badrp verdict into light as well. 

The initiation is wonky and doesn't really promote the fear rp Scar might've been aiming for. Since your badrp punishment, as explained in the verdict, was based solely on the fact you did not fear rp staff should have taken into account the fact that the initiation and the people involved were not scary, sure guns are scary and having a gun pointed at you is scary but 2 years into an apocalypse numbs you to that fear. The fear rp should not be justified solely on guns being pointed, the person holding it should be able to create the fear instead which Scar and Jim did not do. The only fear they created was pointing guns. However, "Initiation rp" shouldn't be judged harshly due to the fact it's high strung and confusing, what comes after should be judged instead... should anything come after it. 

 

My general thoughts about the rest of the report are below here:

Along the lines of you being killed Jim was definitely quick to shoot you, the rule itself says:

Quote

In any other circumstances, hostages may only be executed in the following scenarios:

Hostages do not value their life, for example they repeatedly talk back or insult you despite being told to stop.

Jim said "Watch your mouth" Once. Once being the key word, and Scars threat was directly aimed at Ryan for calling them "retards". Despite what you said and the fact that saying it wasn't the smartest thing to to say, for the betterment of RP and what could've come afterwards, Jim should've held fire and warned you once more before killing you. Once isn't repeatedly but twice is so always warn twice before doing anything. 😶 It sucks to die while trying to stay true to your character, not everyone is a scared bitch.

Scars kill on Ryan was also quick, even when you get shot at just run.. don't kill your captive cause tbh sometimes it's not the captives fault for the shots popping off. It just looks lazy when you kill him and makes the initiation pointless. However, the kill technically is justified so take it as you will. 

Tbh staffs reasoning for the badrp punishment could fall more into NVFL with how it was explained but idk maybe that's just me

 

Also to the @GMs it doesn't matter how upset you think someone is because of a report don't pull the "you upset you die" card... poor GM etiquette and a grasp for malicious intent to justify the false report. Also don't use threads notes to justify a signing sometimes they just don't make sense and people follow the leader when writing them. Always grab at least 3-4 gms or mods if available and discuss, thread notes are a good way to bring up some discussion never to justify the full verdict. That's just my advice thanks for coming to my ted talk. 

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28 minutes ago, MRS Bradtica said:

The whole "keep your fucking mouth shut" argument to kill someone is fucking weak. It's called roleplay. Deal with it in roleplay. After multiple instances of snarky behaviour? Yeah sure, I'll give you that one. After a few seconds? Fuck no. 

I know that multiple staff members are involved in verdicts, but having a friend write the actual thing is a big fucking no. If I had ANY reason to be called biased in a report (even if I wasn't involved in a group with the individuals) you bet your ass I wouldn't be touching it with a ten foot poll. There are lots of ways to be biased and they're not always as simple as being in an approved group with one another. There are more than enough reports to get your activity up somewhere else, than handling ones with friends in them.

False report? That one is getting thrown around a lot more than it used to. Used to mean when someone put up a report for the sole purpose of being petty and when it's clear no rule break was done. I don't see that here. There were multiple instances in which there were potential rule breaks, and reporting someone on such potential rule breaks should not be punishable. I mean... Isn't the staff slang still "if you feel there was a rule break, put up a report"?

couldn't put it better myself if I tried. this is absolutely bang on!

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Posted (edited)

Literally made the suggestion last month in a thread quoted above and then posted in "ask staff" why people weren't being asked if they wanted to continue a report when staffs opinion was there were no rulebreaks.

YOU NEED TO BE DOING THIS.

I'm sorry if this offends anyone who worked on that verdict, but you are doing it wrong.  Slamming someone for writing a report, when they feel it is a rulebreak, is a horrendous mindframe and frankly everyone involved in the ok of that verdict should be ashamed.  You need to give people an out in those situations, not an auto ban.

It screams of staff bias (once again) and makes people afraid to report rule breaks because of the dangerous precedence set in this report.

I'm sorry purple team, but you are better than that.

 

Edited by MR Pussywhipped

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false report accusations are a fucking joke. one person can do the exact same thing and not get hit with it. its w/e, just do whateverone else does in the community and either put up with the stupid shit or find a new home, welcome to dayzrp mate.

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If i have a hostage and he's talking shit back to me and not fearing his life i know its NVFL so i'll simply keep beating him until he stops acting up.

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The false report is one of the elements I simply do not agree with in this case at all their was a reason and there was a cause.

28 minutes ago, Zman44 said:
 
 
1
20 minutes ago, Zman44 said:

- USER HAS BEEN WARNED FOR THIS SECTION OF THE POST -

There was no fight sorry.

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Well from my experience meeting you ingame your RP was top notch

As for the report it used to be a thing that before giving a false report verdict a staff member of the GM team or an Admin would state that they did not see a rulebreak meaning the OP would be given time to point out their opinion on where they see a rule break effectively keeping it open and trying to persuade staff to re-look or close the report all together.

By giving a false report verdict without the OP being able to close it and forgive the guy for making a mistake or being able to defend themselves and point out what they see the staff team is effectively banning for the sake of banning. This is a move that turns members of the community off of making reports meaning the community will never improve in quality and the staff team will always be  looked at in a negative way...

Does that sum it up?

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Personally, I believe in the escalation of force used on hostages. If they don't shut up/show respect its beatings then woundings then killings.

 

False Reports should be for when the OP is clearly lying or purposely trying to get the situation to fit the verdict they desire, not for when people think a rule has genuinely been broken, all these FR verdicts do is inspire a genuine willingness to not report for fear of getting counter yeeted.

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Veryniceperson said:

Personally, I believe in the escalation of force used on hostages. If they don't shut up/show respect its beatings then woundings then killings.

 

False Reports should be for when the OP is clearly lying or purposely trying to get the situation to fit the verdict they desire, not for when people think a rule has genuinely been broken, all these FR verdicts do is inspire a genuine willingness to not report for fear of getting counter yeeted.

Yup. Totally agree. 

False reports should only be handed out after it is clear, that they know, the report is totally senseless and after it is clear that they know, that there was no rule broken.

Edited by Lyca

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Posted (edited)

I want to thank everyone for your replies. Thank you for keeping it civil and thanks to all the people who support me.

Thank you.

Edited by Jackfish

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I disagree with the verdict completely, and the false report charge is crazy to me. I feel like the amount of false report verdicts have gone up so much, all of which puzzles me. This report involved the co-owner and his friends unfortunately, and this kind of verdict I saw coming. These kinds of ridiculous verdicts is one of the reasons for my, and many others, absence. Mistrust in staff and very questionable actions. Hopefully it all gets sorted out, sorry ya had to experience this 👍

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13 hours ago, YNW Dusty said:

People need to stop looking for any reason to execute their hostage. A good hostage taker never starts off with "If you talk shit, you die". You always build up to that, never start with it. Starting off with that demand makes it harder for the hostage to even RP other than being a submissive dog or whatever. If you aim your gun at someone and threaten their life, of course they're going to be mad at you. Don't stifle their RP attempts just because you want an easy out of the hostage situation.

Killing should absolutely be a last resort; it ends the RP right then and there, and the people who die aren't even allowed to remember what happened, basically making it as if that entire situation didn't even happen. A mouthy hostage should absolutely be punished in game, but if you want them to ACTUALLY send a message to them and their group, you torture them and beat them. Don't just kill them because you can't be fucked to roleplay.

And another thing that should be absolutely last resort is false report verdicts. These used to be few and far between, 1. because it was difficult to prove whether or not the report was put up with malicious intent and 2. because you have to prove that information was intentionally left out of the report or that the OP was lying or skewing things to make the situation seem worse. 

These days, false report verdicts seem to be getting more and more common. That's not a good thing. It's just another example of the standards of the staff team slipping below what is acceptable. Mistakes are ok, the staff team are human afterall. But at this point, so many mistakes are being made by the GM team that something needs to be done by the admins, the people supposed to be the community leaders. Standards need to be raised.

I completely agree with this! You are spot on. Too many people are coming from KoS mindsets and it's annoying as hell. 

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I fully disagree with the False report part, I will not comment on the badrp because lately, it seems to be an admin to admin idea of it.  As others have stated False report bans should be rare and used when there is the clear purpose of trying to frame someone up and blame them for something that clearly nothing was done wrong. If the Staff involved in the report thought for even a min that maybe the reported person could have done something wrong and had to talk about it, the false report ban shouldn't have been used.

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I don't know anything about the report or situation, but the rules specify the word "repeatedly" for a reason. So if you only talked back once, then the execution should be invalid. Considering the verdict, I assume you talked "shit" multiple times, no way GMs would've missed a basic thing like that. 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Roland said:

I don't know anything about the report or situation, but the rules specify the word "repeatedly" for a reason. So if you only talked back once, then the execution should be invalid. Considering the verdict, I assume you talked "shit" multiple times, no way GMs would've missed a basic thing like that. 

That's a no there chief.

Watched the video again for myself and wrote down some notions.

The initiators approach and there is a bit of back and forth as you would expect since no initation was dropped yet.

Then after the initation is dropped the initiators instruct the hostages to tell their allies on the radios not to shoot or they are dead.

@Ryan Shepherd then proceeds to tell his allies.

"These retards are saying if you shoot we are gonna be dead." Or a phrase akin to that, its important to note that the word retard being what caused the initiators to state "Talk shit again and you are dead." to which the other hostage piped up with "Fuck you." which he was immediately executed for.

Edited by Ducky

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Roland said:

I don't know anything about the report or situation, but the rules specify the word "repeatedly" for a reason. So if you only talked back once, then the execution should be invalid. Considering the verdict, I assume you talked "shit" multiple times, no way GMs would've missed a basic thing like that. 

If you take a look at my appeal, I wrote out a chat log to avoid having to listen to that time consuming video. 

Indeed it was once, in both cases.

 

Edited by Ryan Shepherd

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8 minutes ago, Roland said:

I don't know anything about the report or situation, but the rules specify the word "repeatedly" for a reason. So if you only talked back once, then the execution should be invalid. Considering the verdict, I assume you talked "shit" multiple times, no way GMs would've missed a basic thing like that. 

When you're off break or have the free time to do so, you might want to look back over that report again Rolle. Might be worth looking over again. I didn't go over it with a fine tooth comb or anything but yeah I personally disagree with that verdict and plenty of others do as well. I don't think all the disagreement over the verdict is over nothing either. A couple posts and pages of replies to them? Yeah I'd say go back over it and double check. 

IIRC in the video they're told something like "Don't call us ____ again or else", then told to do something, while @Jackfish is doing said thing or about to do so he says "Fuck you" and is immediately domed by one of the accused. Then they're fired upon by the OP of the reports party and @Ryan Shepherd is killed as he was told that if they were shot at he would die. 

Now whether that was a valid kill or not (I don't think it was) I don't see how in any way shape or form that deserves false report. It was not a report made with malicious intent. It was not a report they made knowing it had zero validity. Thus, it shouldn't be a false report, no? 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, YNW Jasper said:

Now whether that was a valid kill or not (I don't think it was) I don't see how in any way shape or form that deserves false report. It was not a report made with malicious intent. It was not a report they made knowing it had zero validity. Thus, it shouldn't be a false report, no? 

Agree.

A false report should only be verdicted when the party knowingly reports something that isn't a rulebreak, which was not the case. No clue why he got a false report tbh.

Edited by Lyca

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11 minutes ago, Roland said:

I don't know anything about the report or situation, but the rules specify the word "repeatedly" for a reason. So if you only talked back once, then the execution should be invalid. Considering the verdict, I assume you talked "shit" multiple times, no way GMs would've missed a basic thing like that. 

That aint it

The Hostage were told to put one hand up 5 times then gets attitude then the hostage gets a final warning says fuck you and still dosent raise one hand and gets killed.

 

 

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