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Jackfish

S1 - RDM / BADRP / Baiting / NLR / Ruleplay - Around Pusthoska - 20:36 - 28-04-2019

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Posted (edited)

Server and location: Server 1, Around Pusthoska

Approximate time and date of the incident (SERVER TIME): 2019-04-28

Your in game name: Victor Petrov

Names of allies involved: @Ryan Shepherd

Name of suspect/s: @ScarRP , @JimRP and @ZorullRP

Additional evidence? (video/screenshot): Shepherd will upload a video.

Well here I am again,

So we were running from Pushtoska when I noticed some people following us. Since I thought I knew who they were we decided to run away from them. I then met a freshspawn. The freshspawn had the same voice as @ZorullRP who got killed about an hour before I met his friends. I then hear @OxeN saying that the same freshspawn is following him around and is possible scouting for his friends ( @OxeN was also the one who killed @ZorullRP earlier). After a short bit of RP I heard @ScarRP saying "Stop and talk" multible times. Eventually we stopped and @ScarRP kept repeating himself "why did you run off?". @Ryan Shepherd answered him but @ScarRP kept repeating. In the mean time I noticed @JimRP PvP straving in the background. When @Ryan Shepherd asked @ScarRP again what he wanted he said "Suck a dick bitch, both of you suck a dick". From this point on it was pretty clear this had nothing to do with IC since we never met, this was pure OOC from that point on. Eventually he was responding a bit with "yea yea" while he was probably talking on Discord about that he was going to initiate on us. Eventually @ScarRP initiated and we both put one hand up and complied. He then said "Guns on the ground, both of you guns on the ground" followed by "quickly bitch quickly bitch". We once again complied and we dropped our guns. I then put 2 hands up showing I was willing to comply. @Ryan Shepherd put one hand up and we tried to listen to what our hostage taker ( @ScarRP ) was saying. He then says: "Tell your boys on the radio that if we get shot you die", I told him I couldn't since I had two hands up so @Ryan Shepherd told our friends (remember, we are not an approved group) that if we took shots we would be killed by "those two retards". @ScarRP then told him that if he would call him a retard once more he would die (from this point on only @ScarRP would gain KOS rights if only @Ryan Shepherd would call him a retard again). I then heard @JimRP say: "watch your mouth" which I replied with "fuck you", @JimRP then sprayed me down. After I got shot @Ryan Shepherd was forced to walk with them, he complied once more but one of our friends started shooting. @Ryan Shepherd put one hand up to show he was not going to do anything but also he got shot stright away.

Let me put down what things went wrong here / what rules were broken.

1: BadRP: As shown in the video both @JimRP and @ScarRP where not providing quality RP, and were clearly only looking for PVP or to rob us. (Jim did not even RP with us)

2: RDM / ruleplay: Never did @JimRP initiate on us or threatened us. He is not in a approved group with @ScarRP which means he never gained rights to kill any of us. He only told us both to watch our mouths once and he did not even say that he was going to do anything if we didn't. @JimRP was clearly prioritizing PVP over RP.

4.1 All initiations and hostile actions as well as their demands and conditions must be made clear and unambiguous to all involved players. Hostile actions or initiations must be done personally and on specific targets who must be aware who the attacker is, for example they cannot be done remotely through radio or PA system.

4.2 If you are an attacker - the one who first did the initiation or started, caused or provoked the hostile situation - you are allowed to defend yourself by gaining ATTACKER RIGHTS on the defenders. Attacker rights allow you to kill defenders for 1 hour or until your character dies. Attacker rights can be only be shared with your approved group members. If you are not a part of an approved group, attacker rights can not be shared and apply only for your character

3.3 You may not focus on out of character gains to the detriment of RP. For example, "rule play" is prioritizing things like kill rights or OOC information above more appropriate IC actions or behavior. Always prioritize role play over rule play.

3: NLR: @ZorullRP got killed maybe an hour before this indecent, he then followed the one who killed him around and was clearly scouting for his friends. (If posision logs show this was not @ZorullRP then he did not break any rules, however @OxeN reconized his voice and that is why we suspect him for NLR. 

Quotes from @JimRP

1: Rulearmor? I stated some pretty clear and unambiguous demands by telling you to put one of your hands up only, telling you to watch your mouth while pointing a pretty big gun towards your face. If anything you're the one using rulearmor here because in your mind OOCly I hadn't initiated just because I didn't say or else I'd shoot you? I'm pretty sure it's pretty clear when the man next to me points a gun at you and tells you to put your hands up or get shot and I also point a gun at you then you should understand that we are both initiating on you, the point of initiating is to make your demands clear, which were clear.

My view on this:

"I stated some pretty clear and unambiguous demands by telling you to put one of your hands up only, telling you to watch your mouth while pointing a pretty big gun towards your face.": Unfortianally that is not how it works. Other then that, your demands were not clear at all.

"I'm pretty sure it's pretty clear when the man next to me points a gun at you and tells you to put your hands up or get shot and I also point a gun at you then you should understand that we are both initiating on you": Again, that is not how things work. You are not a part of a approved group which means you did not gain KOS rights.

2: I don't understand why you're just quoting the rules, I'll admit that I did not state a condition vocally but you have to understand that the point of an initiation is that it needs to be clear that a hostile action has been made against your life and that it is being threatened if you don't do X, it is not stated that the person has to state any demands vocally, it's only stated that they need to be clear. So again, you can quite clearly understand your life is under threat if I point a gun at you and tell you to do something. I'm sorry but it's quite blatant that the person who tried to use 'rule armor' here was you. 

My view on this: 

"Ill admit that I did not state a condition vocally": Here he admits atleast one rulebreak.

"it is not stated that the person has to state any demands vocally, it's only stated that they need to be clear": They were very clear from @ScarRP. However your demands were not clear at all.

"I'm sorry but it's quite blatant that the person who tried to use 'rule armor' here was you.": Simply incorrect.

Quotes from @ScarRP:

1: POV: Jim and I were running around looking for someone when we see two men sprint away from us in Pustoshka, we then start chasing the two and eventually catch up. I ask them why they are running from us and I then spot 2 people in bushes in the distance and call them out on that too. After a bit of back and forth as seen in the video I initiate, I then start "running around like the flash" to avoid being shot by his allies in the distance. I have them drop their weapons and get on the radio and tell their allies that if we take fire they die, one of them then does so and the OP does not comply with the demands. Jim then kills the OP as seen in the video, after that I was hoping we could have some good RP without having to get in a gunfight and I have the survivor follow me towards Pustoshka. Not too long after that we get shot at and I kill the hostage and then return fire on the man shooting at us, I believe I hit him and I may have killed him not sure though logs will show.

I understand that the OP may be upset about getting killed but I honestly see no reason to try and stack random rule breaks. How could this be seen as baiting if we were the ones that initiated? 

4.7 You may not bait other players into situations where you provoke the player into using hostile actions and then using kill rights to kill them. This is known as baiting.

My view on this:

" I then start "running around like the flash" to avoid being shot by his allies in the distance": This only proves you prioritize PvP over RP, its simply not realistic roleplay to sprint around in cirkles or move around non stop.

"I understand that the OP may be upset about getting killed": Pretty obvious flamebait right here.

"How could this be seen as baiting if we were the ones that initiated?": Before you initiated you insulted us for literally no reason, you also kept getting in our face repeating a question we already answered.

 

I snipped all my replies to @JimRP and put them in my first post. I did this to make it easier to read for staff.

 

 

Edited by Jackfish

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I'm the guy who killed you, I told you to keep one of your hands up and kept screaming at you to keep only one of your hands up and move, neither of you were moving and only your friend listened to our demands (by that I mean that he put one of his hands up only). You didn't put one of your hands up, move or RP any sort of fear, we told you to watch your mouth - both of you and you didn't so I shot you in the head.

Bare in mind that the only reason I did that was because in my character's mind you were clearly stalling for your allies, my character was informed over the radio that there was a guy or two in some bushes aiming a gun at us which I also saw - hence why we had to act quick in the manner that we did. I was all up for offering you some top notch hostile roleplay and trying to extract some information from you but things went the way they did which was extremely unfortunate. You have to understand that my character values his life and when he sees people aiming guns at him nearby while he's holding up two people and the people are stalling, he has to take certain actions.

Also you forgot to mention your friend shit-talking back to our guy and generally acting cocky when we first met. If you valued your character's life you wouldnt've acted in such a provocative manner when you have an automatic rifle pointed towards your head.

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9 minutes ago, Jackfish said:

I will not argue any more after this message:

- stalling for my allies, I literally complied and tried to do what you guys asked, but you kept talking over eachother.

- You told us to contact our ally's first

-  You told us to watch my mouth ONCE and didn't even say anything else

- Why would I care about my "friend". He works for us IC, he is not our friend. Even if he was, I am not responsable for his actions

- I rped the way my character is, maybe if you guys actually tried to provide serious RP other then "both of you suck a dick", "acting slick eh?", we would of been even more serious then we already are.

Neither will I argue any of this, you RP'd no sort of fear when you were being held up / being kidnapped. I don't think you can argue BadRP when you're the one running away from us and avoiding RP with us. If you wanted to RP you could've RP'd fear, listened to our demands, followed us and received proper time consuming hostile RP. When we're in an open field with your friend(s) nearby aiming guns at us (who we spotted), we have to get you moved. You didn't move or listen to us and on-top of that you had an attitude and told me "fuck you"? Sorry but that's pretty provocative and just sounds like the sort of thing you wouldn't do when you're being taken hostage.

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5 minutes ago, Jackfish said:

EDIT:

One other question that I have, @ZorullRP got killed by @OxeN about an hour before. 

I am curious, as you can see we ran passed a freshspawn with the same voice as @ZorullRP. @OxeN also noticed that same freshspawn chasing him around. We are curious why this freshspawn with the voice of @ZorullRP conveniently follows our member around  (who killed him) and comes back to the continueing situation after he got killed?

I was following Scar, didn't pay attention to Zorull so you'd have to ask him about that. I don't think Zorull was following whoever killed him last actively when we met. 

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Ryan Shepherd POV:

I was having some enjoyable roleplay with a trader in Pushtoska. After leaving him I head out of Pushtoska and stumble upon @Jackfish as I had been muted traveling around by myself. I unmute and we travel together when Jack and I noticed some people chasing us. Clearly we are outnumered as I am assuming the people I saw before leaving are members of this group. We begin to try to evade the group chasing us and getting into an open position where our other teammates can get eyes increasing our chances of survival.

We cut left off the main road and head towards the open field. A man cuts us off as a fresh spawn, @Jackfish speaks to him while I try to get ahead, my teammates inform me some of them have eyes so I turn to speak to the men.

The man asks me why I was running, I respond with 'Because... I am running, is it against the law to run?' he ignores it and responds with calling out 'my boys' in the bushes, I tell him 'Alright go talk to them.' The 'why are you running?' and I responding with 'Well.. why are you chasing?' goes back and forth a bit. I am then told 'suck a dick bitch, both of you.'  The video will show the rest of the conversation (forgive my inaccurate quotes as they are from memory not by listening to the footage.)

The man in purple initiates and runs around like the flash, 'Guns on the ground, guns on the ground, do it bitch x5 times. @Jackfish and myself comply willingly. We are told to put one hand up, we do so, I am told to tell 'my boys' if they shoot we will be killed, fair enough, I tell everyone in my comms, 'These 2 retards are telling me if you shoot we will be shot dead.'  I am told if I call them a retard again they will kill me, also fair enough. The other man says TO ME, 'Watch your fucking mouth.' I stay quiet and almost immediately @Jackfish says 'Fuck you.' @Jackfish is then blasted. I am told to start running, which I do immediately, I am actually interested to see how this hostage scenario will go as I have never really been a hostage so I do as asked. A shot is fired behind us and I look around and immediately put my hand up in hopes that wasn't one of my boys and I am blasted in the head. A shame, no roleplay for me.

The video I am posting was initially made to post on a forum thread hence the fast forwarding, whilst muted. I didn't realise that @Jackfish was making a report at the time. I will upload the unedited video footage tonight but will take some time, Irish internet feels bad. So for now, use this.

 

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3 minutes ago, Ryan Shepherd said:

Ryan Shepherd POV:

I was having some enjoyable roleplay with a trader in Pushtoska. After leaving him I head out of Pushtoska and stumble upon @Jackfish as I had been muted traveling around by myself. I unmute and we travel together when Jack and I noticed some people chasing us. Clearly we are outnumered as I am assuming the people I saw before leaving are members of this group. We begin to try to evade the group chasing us and getting into an open position where our other teammates can get eyes increasing our chances of survival.

We cut left off the main road and head towards the open field. A man cuts us off as a fresh spawn, @Jackfish speaks to him while I try to get ahead, my teammates inform me some of them have eyes so I turn to speak to the men.

The man asks me why I was running, I respond with 'Because... I am running, is it against the law to run?' he ignores it and responds with calling out 'my boys' in the bushes, I tell him 'Alright go talk to them.' The 'why are you running?' and I responding with 'Well.. why are you chasing?' goes back and forth a bit. I am then told 'suck a dick bitch, both of you.'  The video will show the rest of the conversation (forgive my inaccurate quotes as they are from memory not by listening to the footage.)

The man in purple initiates and runs around like the flash, 'Guns on the ground, guns on the ground, do it bitch x5 times. @Jackfish and myself comply willingly. We are told to put one hand up, we do so, I am told to tell 'my boys' if they shoot we will be killed, fair enough, I tell everyone in my comms, 'These 2 retards are telling me if you shoot we will be shot dead.'  I am told if I call them a retard again they will kill me, also fair enough. The other man says TO ME, 'Watch your fucking mouth.' I stay quiet and almost immediately @Jackfish says 'Fuck you.' @Jackfish is then blasted. I am told to start running, which I do immediately, I am actually interested to see how this hostage scenario will go as I have never really been a hostage so I do as asked. A shot is fired behind us and I look around and immediately put my hand up in hopes that wasn't one of my boys and I am blasted in the head. A shame, no roleplay for me.

The video I am posting was initially made to post on a forum thread hence the fast forwarding, whilst muted. I didn't realise that @Jackfish was making a report at the time. I will upload the unedited video footage tonight but will take some time, Irish internet feels bad. So for now, use this.

 

I was telling both of you to watch your mouth, before that you can quite clearly hear me talking to your friend, telling him to put only ONE of his hands up which he did not do. Regardless who in their right mind thinks the first acceptable action would be to tell his hostage taker 'fuck you'? 

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13 minutes ago, Ryan Shepherd said:

snip

@Ryan Shepherd You will need to post the Full Unedited Video. Without any music or sounds added to it along with the full footage according to the Report Posting Rules.

""Video evidence! Photo or video evidence is required to be provided as soon as possible. Videos are required to be unedited and posted publicly on the thread. Videos uploaded to YouTube must be set as not listed. Staff will not accept evidence via private messages.""

Logs will be posted shortly.

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1 minute ago, RandyRP said:

@Ryan Shepherd You will need to post the Full Unedited Video. Without any music or sounds added to it along with the full footage according to the Report Posting Rules.

""Video evidence! Photo or video evidence is required to be provided as soon as possible. Videos are required to be unedited and posted publicly on the thread. Videos uploaded to YouTube must be set as not listed. Staff will not accept evidence via private messages.""

Logs will be posted shortly.

 

16 minutes ago, Ryan Shepherd said:

The video I am posting was initially made to post on a forum thread hence the fast forwarding, whilst muted. I didn't realise that @Jackfish was making a report at the time. I will upload the unedited video footage tonight but will take some time, Irish internet feels bad. So for now, use this.

 

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POV: Jim and I were running around looking for someone when we see two men sprint away from us in Pustoshka, we then start chasing the two and eventually catch up. I ask them why they are running from us and I then spot 2 people in bushes in the distance and call them out on that too. After a bit of back and forth as seen in the video I initiate, I then start "running around like the flash" to avoid being shot by his allies in the distance. I have them drop their weapons and get on the radio and tell their allies that if we take fire they die, one of them then does so and the OP does not comply with the demands. Jim then kills the OP as seen in the video, after that I was hoping we could have some good RP without having to get in a gunfight and I have the survivor follow me towards Pustoshka. Not too long after that we get shot at and I kill the hostage and then return fire on the man shooting at us, I believe I hit him and I may have killed him not sure though logs will show.

I understand that the OP may be upset about getting killed but I honestly see no reason to try and stack random rule breaks. How could this be seen as baiting if we were the ones that initiated? 

4.7 You may not bait other players into situations where you provoke the player into using hostile actions and then using kill rights to kill them. This is known as baiting.

1 hour ago, Jackfish said:

I will not argue any more after this message:

 

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9 minutes ago, Jackfish said:

I said I was not going to argue but I think this is very relevant to this report,

"Regardless who in their right mind thinks the first acceptable action would be to tell his hostage taker 'fuck you'?" if you really wants to go this way then I will ask you the following, in the video you NEVER hear you initiating on us, yes you pointed your gun at me but you never initiated and you never told me that I would be shot if I did not listen to your demands.

I might be wrong but I am getting the feeling rulearmor is getting used here.

Rulearmor? I stated some pretty clear and unambiguous demands by telling you to put one of your hands up only, telling you to watch your mouth while pointing a pretty big gun towards your face. If anything you're the one using rulearmor here because in your mind OOCly I hadn't initiated just because I didn't say or else I'd shoot you? I'm pretty sure it's pretty clear when the man next to me points a gun at you and tells you to put your hands up or get shot and I also point a gun at you then you should understand that we are both initiating on you, the point of initiating is to make your demands clear, which were clear.

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7 minutes ago, Jackfish said:

4.1 All initiations and hostile actions as well as their demands and conditions must be made clear and unambiguous to all involved players. Hostile actions or initiations must be done personally and on specific targets who must be aware who the attacker is, for example they cannot be done remotely through radio or PA system.

4.2 If you are an attacker - the one who first did the initiation or started, caused or provoked the hostile situation - you are allowed to defend yourself by gaining ATTACKER RIGHTS on the defenders. Attacker rights allow you to kill defenders for 1 hour or until your character dies. Attacker rights can be only be shared with your approved group members. If you are not a part of an approved group, attacker rights can not be shared and apply only for your character

3.3 You may not focus on out of character gains to the detriment of RP. For example, "rule play" is prioritizing things like kill rights or OOC information above more appropriate IC actions or behavior. Always prioritize role play over rule play.

 

I don't understand why you're just quoting the rules, I'll admit that I did not state a condition vocally but you have to understand that the point of an initiation is that it needs to be clear that a hostile action has been made against your life and that it is being threatened if you don't do X, it is not stated that the person has to state any demands vocally, it's only stated that they need to be clear. So again, you can quite clearly understand your life is under threat if I point a gun at you and tell you to do something. I'm sorry but it's quite blatant that the person who tried to use 'rule armor' here was you. 

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There we go.

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Edited my first post,

Added my replies into one message and made it easier to read for staff.

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21 hours ago, Jackfish said:

Server and location: Server 1, Around Pusthoska

Approximate time and date of the incident (SERVER TIME): 2019-04-28

Your in game name: Victor Petrov

Names of allies involved: @Ryan Shepherd

Name of suspect/s: @ScarRP , @JimRP and @ZorullRP

Additional evidence? (video/screenshot): Shepherd will upload a video.

Well here I am again,

So we were running from Pushtoska when I noticed some people following us. Since I thought I knew who they were we decided to run away from them. I then met a freshspawn. The freshspawn had the same voice as @ZorullRP who got killed about an hour before I met his friends. I then hear @OxeN saying that the same freshspawn is following him around and is possible scouting for his friends ( @OxeN was also the one who killed @ZorullRP earlier). After a short bit of RP I heard @ScarRP saying "Stop and talk" multible times. Eventually we stopped and @ScarRP kept repeating himself "why did you run off?". @Ryan Shepherd answered him but @ScarRP kept repeating. In the mean time I noticed @JimRP PvP straving in the background. When @Ryan Shepherd asked @ScarRP again what he wanted he said "Suck a dick bitch, both of you suck a dick". From this point on it was pretty clear this had nothing to do with IC since we never met, this was pure OOC from that point on. Eventually he was responding a bit with "yea yea" while he was probably talking on Discord about that he was going to initiate on us. Eventually @ScarRP initiated and we both put one hand up and complied. He then said "Guns on the ground, both of you guns on the ground" followed by "quickly bitch quickly bitch". We once again complied and we dropped our guns. I then put 2 hands up showing I was willing to comply. @Ryan Shepherd put one hand up and we tried to listen to what our hostage taker ( @ScarRP ) was saying. He then says: "Tell your boys on the radio that if we get shot you die", I told him I couldn't since I had two hands up so @Ryan Shepherd told our friends (remember, we are not an approved group) that if we took shots we would be killed by "those two retards". @ScarRP then told him that if he would call him a retard once more he would die (from this point on only @ScarRP would gain KOS rights if only @Ryan Shepherd would call him a retard again). I then heard @JimRP say: "watch your mouth" which I replied with "fuck you", @JimRP then sprayed me down. After I got shot @Ryan Shepherd was forced to walk with them, he complied once more but one of our friends started shooting. @Ryan Shepherd put one hand up to show he was not going to do anything but also he got shot stright away.

Let me put down what things went wrong here / what rules were broken.

1: BadRP: As shown in the video both @JimRP and @ScarRP where not providing quality RP, and were clearly only looking for PVP or to rob us.

2: RDM / ruleplay: Never did @JimRP initiate on us or threatened us. He is not in a approved group with @ScarRP which means he never gained rights to kill any of us. He only told us both to watch our mouths once and he did not even say that he was going to do anything if we didn't. @JimRP was clearly prioritizing PVP over RP.

4.1 All initiations and hostile actions as well as their demands and conditions must be made clear and unambiguous to all involved players. Hostile actions or initiations must be done personally and on specific targets who must be aware who the attacker is, for example they cannot be done remotely through radio or PA system.

4.2 If you are an attacker - the one who first did the initiation or started, caused or provoked the hostile situation - you are allowed to defend yourself by gaining ATTACKER RIGHTS on the defenders. Attacker rights allow you to kill defenders for 1 hour or until your character dies. Attacker rights can be only be shared with your approved group members. If you are not a part of an approved group, attacker rights can not be shared and apply only for your character

3.3 You may not focus on out of character gains to the detriment of RP. For example, "rule play" is prioritizing things like kill rights or OOC information above more appropriate IC actions or behavior. Always prioritize role play over rule play.

3: NLR: @ZorullRP got killed maybe an hour before this indecent, he then followed the one who killed him around and was clearly scouting for his friends. (If posision logs show this was not @ZorullRP then he did not break any rules, however @OxeN reconized his voice and that is why we suspect him for NLR. 

Quotes from @JimRP

1: Rulearmor? I stated some pretty clear and unambiguous demands by telling you to put one of your hands up only, telling you to watch your mouth while pointing a pretty big gun towards your face. If anything you're the one using rulearmor here because in your mind OOCly I hadn't initiated just because I didn't say or else I'd shoot you? I'm pretty sure it's pretty clear when the man next to me points a gun at you and tells you to put your hands up or get shot and I also point a gun at you then you should understand that we are both initiating on you, the point of initiating is to make your demands clear, which were clear.

My view on this:

"I stated some pretty clear and unambiguous demands by telling you to put one of your hands up only, telling you to watch your mouth while pointing a pretty big gun towards your face.": Unfortianally that is not how it works. Other then that, your demands were not clear at all.

"I'm pretty sure it's pretty clear when the man next to me points a gun at you and tells you to put your hands up or get shot and I also point a gun at you then you should understand that we are both initiating on you": Again, that is not how things work. You are not a part of a approved group which means you did not gain KOS rights.

2: I don't understand why you're just quoting the rules, I'll admit that I did not state a condition vocally but you have to understand that the point of an initiation is that it needs to be clear that a hostile action has been made against your life and that it is being threatened if you don't do X, it is not stated that the person has to state any demands vocally, it's only stated that they need to be clear. So again, you can quite clearly understand your life is under threat if I point a gun at you and tell you to do something. I'm sorry but it's quite blatant that the person who tried to use 'rule armor' here was you. 

My view on this: 

"Ill admit that I did not state a condition vocally": Here he admits atleast one rulebreak.

"it is not stated that the person has to state any demands vocally, it's only stated that they need to be clear": They were very clear from @ScarRP. However your demands were not clear at all.

"I'm sorry but it's quite blatant that the person who tried to use 'rule armor' here was you.": Simply incorrect.

Quotes from @ScarRP:

1: POV: Jim and I were running around looking for someone when we see two men sprint away from us in Pustoshka, we then start chasing the two and eventually catch up. I ask them why they are running from us and I then spot 2 people in bushes in the distance and call them out on that too. After a bit of back and forth as seen in the video I initiate, I then start "running around like the flash" to avoid being shot by his allies in the distance. I have them drop their weapons and get on the radio and tell their allies that if we take fire they die, one of them then does so and the OP does not comply with the demands. Jim then kills the OP as seen in the video, after that I was hoping we could have some good RP without having to get in a gunfight and I have the survivor follow me towards Pustoshka. Not too long after that we get shot at and I kill the hostage and then return fire on the man shooting at us, I believe I hit him and I may have killed him not sure though logs will show.

I understand that the OP may be upset about getting killed but I honestly see no reason to try and stack random rule breaks. How could this be seen as baiting if we were the ones that initiated? 

4.7 You may not bait other players into situations where you provoke the player into using hostile actions and then using kill rights to kill them. This is known as baiting.

My view on this:

" I then start "running around like the flash" to avoid being shot by his allies in the distance": This only proves you prioritize PvP over RP, its simply not realistic roleplay to sprint around in cirkles or move around non stop.

"I understand that the OP may be upset about getting killed": Pretty obvious flamebait right here.

"How could this be seen as baiting if we were the ones that initiated?": Before you initiated you insulted us for literally no reason, you also kept getting in our face repeating a question we already answered.

 

I snipped all my replies to @JimRP and put them in my first post. I did this to make it easier to read for staff.

 

 

i) Rulearmor usage by @Jackfish: You told me "fuck you" because you thought I hadn't initiated on you but you can quote any staff member that when a person right next to me initiates on you and states clear demands and conditions and I also point a gun at you and state demands it is quite clear that I am also a part of the initiation. In your mind maybe I hadn't initiated and that is why you decided to say "fuck you" to me because you thought I had gained no rights from the situation but you are quite wrong, I was part of the initiation and it is quite clear, you can deny it and say that just because I stated no consequence(s) vocally that I wasn't part of it but I was. You can also ask @Zanaan who'd agree that it was a valid initiation - I kept telling you for about 20 seconds to put only one of your hands up, specifically was telling this to Jackfish and then I told your friend to watch his mouth and then you decided to talk back while having a gun pointed towards your head.

Point is: You thought you could be disrespectful to me because I did not state a condition vocally and in your mind that was not an initiation but that is false, you tried to use rule armor here because you thought I could not shoot you because I stated no condition vocally - that is not necessary, it just needs to be clear what's going to happen if you do not follow demands from your initiators.

A gun pointed to your head is quite clear what will happen as a condition if you do not follow our demand(s).

ii) I did not admit to any rulebreak, I just said I didn't state a condition vocally. Nowhere in the rules it says that you have to state a condition vocally, it states that your demands and conditions are clear. When a gun is being pointed at your head it is quite clear what is going to happen if you do not follow the demands.

iii) The BadRP accusations are entirely false (Scar's RP was entirely acceptable), you guys tried to avoid RP and bait us which I'd like to counter report you for. As you can hear in @Ryan Shepherd's video on Discord they are being instructed to bait us into the field so we can be 'picked off' when we initiate which they knew we would. Obviously you weren't looking to RP or expand and storylines, you were simply looking to bait us into a field and initiate on us with your allies/kill us when we would. You weren't discussing how to RP with us, you were discussing how to kill us.

iv) Once again I'd like to mention that OP is pretty clearly upset about being killed and their plan not working as intended, as you can hear in Ryan's video their entire plan was to bait us into the field to kill us. 

v) I'd like to counter report @Jackfish & @Ryan Shepherd for false report & baiting as this seems to be a report made out of spite that their plans did not go as they wanted to.

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1 hour ago, JimRP said:

i) Rulearmor usage by @Jackfish: You told me "fuck you" because you thought I hadn't initiated on you but you can quote any staff member that when a person right next to me initiates on you and states clear demands and conditions and I also point a gun at you and state demands it is quite clear that I am also a part of the initiation.

Let me take this quote from the rules, not that I am pushing for invalid kill or no initiation personally but I would like to point this out as you are currently in a dynamic: 

Quote

If you are an attacker - the one who first did the initiation or started, caused or provoked the hostile situation - you are allowed to defend yourself by gaining  ATTACKER RIGHTS on the defenders. Attacker rights allow you to kill defenders for 1 hour or until your character dies. Attacker rights can be only be shared with your approved group members. If you are not a part of an approved group, attacker rights can not be shared and apply only for your character.

Clearly says above, this only applies for one character only, insinuating that all members of a dynamic must give a clear an ambiguous demand aka an initiation, moving on.

1 hour ago, JimRP said:

I kept telling you for about 20 seconds to put only one of your hands up, specifically was telling this to Jackfish 

To be fair, it was extremely hard to hear demands from both of you whist one was saying 'One hand up, gun down, do it bitch do it bitch do it bitch do it bitch.' I do not disagree with you telling him to put one hand up but in the heat of the moment when someone is pointing a gun at your head, I am sure the first instinct is to throw both hands up, besides if you told him one or two he still surrendered to you. Afterwards you could of made it clear I want one hand up, again, doesn't really matter I guess. Had you told us to jog immediately with one hand up, before Jack died, that would of been complied with as such.

When I pointed out that you told me personally to watch my mouth just before your friend stated, 'Call us retards again and you are dead.' Which is completely fine. Thus Jack saying 'fuck you' isn't really a valid reason for you personally to shoot Jack dead as he was not given a demand, as far as I can hear in my own video it was one insult, not numerous, could be wrong. Anyway, you responded with the following:

20 hours ago, JimRP said:

I was telling both of you to watch your mouth, before that you can quite clearly hear me talking to your friend, telling him to put only ONE of his hands up which he did not do. 

Fair enough, tracks covered, not going to argue a word v word.

1 hour ago, JimRP said:

and then I told your friend to watch his mouth

Which one is it then? Im confused did you change your mind?

Anyways like I said, I am not fussed on that, I am not going to get into petty nit-picking.

1 hour ago, JimRP said:

A gun pointed to your head is quite clear what will happen as a condition if you do not follow our demand(s).

Your demands were followed quite clearly by both me and Jack, throwing 2 hands up instead of 1 can be rectified quickly if given the ultimatum and make it clear, do it now. Jack may not have heard it as clearly as I.

1 hour ago, JimRP said:

iii) The BadRP accusations are entirely false (Scar's RP was entirely acceptable), you guys tried to avoid RP and bait us which I'd like to counter report you for. As you can hear in @Ryan Shepherd's video on Discord they are being instructed to bait us into the field so we can be 'picked off' when we initiate which they knew we would. Obviously you weren't looking to RP or expand and storylines, you were simply looking to bait us into a field and initiate on us with your allies/kill us when we would. You weren't discussing how to RP with us, you were discussing how to kill us.

First off, can you explain to me how, chasing someone quite obviously, and the opposite party sprinting the opposite direction to make headway for a better position, being confronted with 'Why are you running?' quite a number of times when I try to explain, your chasing, of course we will run and I am responded with 'Suck dick bitch.' That is really furthering the conversation towards 2 people I have never met in my life. Why not ask our names maybe? The fact that I was blasted immediately after one winchester shot went off (Which I don't know why it was even attempted to shoot at you with a fucking winchester while my lifes at risk.) I threw my hand up immediately hoping I chance would be given, nope, blasted, which was well within the rules but a bit distasteful if you ask me, roleplay over. Bare in mind I am not condoning the idiotic attempt at trying to shoot a winchester at you from that far.

Bait and baiting are quite two different things. Bait as referred to in the video footage, is where we are being chased in a fairly secluded road, trees either side, slight dip in the hills. Why in our characters lives, stop and sit like ducks in a position where you have all the advantage and none of our friends have eyes for protection? Attempting to defer you from wanted to initiate on 2 people in an open field. Thats legitimate. Nor is it avoiding roleplay, its hard enough to find people to roleplay with nevermind to avoid it.

Baiting on the other hand is if I kept insulting you repeatedly in an attempt for you to initiate, giving my dynamic KoS. I think I am quite reasonable in the video. Neither I nor Jack became hostile in a lead up to an initiation, we didn't know how many friends you had around, I would of never initiated in a position like that If i am honest. The fact we both complied immediately supports the claim of RP over PvP, check our group idea thread, PvP is clearly not our end game here, who fucking cares anyway.

1 hour ago, JimRP said:

iv) Once again I'd like to mention that OP is pretty clearly upset about being killed and their plan not working as intended, as you can hear in Ryan's video their entire plan was to bait us into the field to kill us. 

Again, to increase our defence. Even if we DID want to kill you, is that against the rules?

1 hour ago, JimRP said:

v) I'd like to counter report @Jackfish & @Ryan Shepherd for false report & baiting as this seems to be a report made out of spite that their plans did not go as they wanted to.

Firstly, I did not even know a report was going to be posted nor did I want to post one. Secondly, there is only one OP, if thats the case, every allie posted in a report deemed false should all be banned with the same punishment, however it has never been the case, so reporting me personally for false report is invalid.

Anways, I just wanted to argue my point given the accusations above, have a good one.

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4 minutes ago, Ryan Shepherd said:

Let me take this quote from the rules, not that I am pushing for invalid kill or no initiation personally but I would like to point this out as you are currently in a dynamic: 

Clearly says above, this only applies for one character only, insinuating that all members of a dynamic must give a clear an ambiguous demand aka an initiation, moving on.

To be fair, it was extremely hard to hear demands from both of you whist one was saying 'One hand up, gun down, do it bitch do it bitch do it bitch do it bitch.' I do not disagree with you telling him to put one hand up but in the heat of the moment when someone is pointing a gun at your head, I am sure the first instinct is to throw both hands up, besides if you told him one or two he still surrendered to you. Afterwards you could of made it clear I want one hand up, again, doesn't really matter I guess. Had you told us to jog immediately with one hand up, before Jack died, that would of been complied with as such.

When I pointed out that you told me personally to watch my mouth just before your friend stated, 'Call us retards again and you are dead.' Which is completely fine. Thus Jack saying 'fuck you' isn't really a valid reason for you personally to shoot Jack dead as he was not given a demand, as far as I can hear in my own video it was one insult, not numerous, could be wrong. Anyway, you responded with the following:

Fair enough, tracks covered, not going to argue a word v word.

Which one is it then? Im confused did you change your mind?

 Anyways like I said, I am not fussed on that, I am not going to get into petty nit-picking.

Your demands were followed quite clearly by both me and Jack, throwing 2 hands up instead of 1 can be rectified quickly if given the ultimatum and make it clear, do it now. Jack may not have heard it as clearly as I.

First off, can you explain to me how, chasing someone quite obviously, and the opposite party sprinting the opposite direction to make headway for a better position, being confronted with 'Why are you running?' quite a number of times when I try to explain, your chasing, of course we will run and I am responded with 'Suck dick bitch.' That is really furthering the conversation towards 2 people I have never met in my life. Why not ask our names maybe? The fact that I was blasted immediately after one winchester shot went off (Which I don't know why it was even attempted to shoot at you with a fucking winchester while my lifes at risk.) I threw my hand up immediately hoping I chance would be given, nope, blasted, which was well within the rules but a bit distasteful if you ask me, roleplay over. Bare in mind I am not condoning the idiotic attempt at trying to shoot a winchester at you from that far.

Bait and baiting are quite two different things. Bait as referred to in the video footage, is where we are being chased in a fairly secluded road, trees either side, slight dip in the hills. Why in our characters lives, stop and sit like ducks in a position where you have all the advantage and none of our friends have eyes for protection? Attempting to defer you from wanted to initiate on 2 people in an open field. Thats legitimate. Nor is it avoiding roleplay, its hard enough to find people to roleplay with nevermind to avoid it.

Baiting on the other hand is if I kept insulting you repeatedly in an attempt for you to initiate, giving my dynamic KoS. I think I am quite reasonable in the video. Neither I nor Jack became hostile in a lead up to an initiation, we didn't know how many friends you had around, I would of never initiated in a position like that If i am honest. The fact we both complied immediately supports the claim of RP over PvP, check our group idea thread, PvP is clearly not our end game here, who fucking cares anyway.

Again, to increase our defence. Even if we DID want to kill you, is that against the rules?

Firstly, I did not even know a report was going to be posted nor did I want to post one. Secondly, there is only one OP, if thats the case, every allie posted in a report deemed false should all be banned with the same punishment, however it has never been the case, so reporting me personally for false report is invalid.

Anways, I just wanted to argue my point given the accusations above, have a good one.

i) Like I already said, in the rules it states that you just need to make your demands and conditions clear, it doesn't say you have to state them vocally.

ii) I told both of you to watch your mouths and I kept telling your friend who had both his hands up to put just ONE of his hands up for a pretty long period of time.

iii) I am saying you were baiting us into the field to end up killing us, not prioritizing roleplay, it is clear you wanted to just PvP.

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That's enough back and forth, stick to your PoVs.

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Hit Logs:

Spoiler
19:42:30 | Player "Dimitri Konashenkov" hit by Player "Jacob Makarov" with M4-A1 from 251.91 meters 
19:43:57 | Player "Jimmy Lorenzo" hit by Player "Dimitri Konashenkov" with LAR from 5.24607 meters 
19:43:57 | Player "Jimmy Lorenzo" hit by Player "Dimitri Konashenkov" with LAR from 5.66295 meters 
19:43:57 | Player "Jimmy Lorenzo" hit by Player "Dimitri Konashenkov" with LAR from 5.66295 meters 
19:43:57 | Player "Jimmy Lorenzo" hit by Player "Dimitri Konashenkov" with LAR from 5.87149 meters 
20:34:06 | Player "Viktor Petrov" hit by Player "Bolat Aslakhanov" with M16A4 from 3.96883 meters 
20:34:18 | Player "Ryan Shepherd" hit by Player "Jebediah Foulke" with M4-A1 from 4.12048 meters 
20:34:18 | Player "Ryan Shepherd" hit by Player "Jebediah Foulke" with M4-A1 from 4.12048 meters 
20:34:18 | Player "Ryan Shepherd" hit by Player "Jebediah Foulke" with M4-A1 from 4.21761 meters 
20:34:18 | Player "Ryan Shepherd" hit by Player "Jebediah Foulke" with M4-A1 from 4.21761 meters 
20:34:18 | Player "Ryan Shepherd" hit by Player "Jebediah Foulke" with M4-A1 from 5.34765 meters 
20:34:18 | Player "Ryan Shepherd" hit by Player "Jebediah Foulke" with M4-A1 from 5.8596 meters 
20:34:35 | Player "Ryan Shepherd" hit by Player "Bolat Aslakhanov" with M16A4 from 2.00888 meters 
20:34:35 | Player "Ryan Shepherd" hit by Player "Bolat Aslakhanov" with M16A4 from 2.00888 meters 
20:34:35 | Player "Ryan Shepherd" hit by Player "Bolat Aslakhanov" with M16A4 from 2.00888 meters 
20:34:35 | Player "Ryan Shepherd" hit by Player "Bolat Aslakhanov" with M16A4 from 2.01345 meters 
20:34:35 | Player "Ryan Shepherd" hit by Player "Bolat Aslakhanov" with M16A4 from 2.03752 meters 
20:34:35 | Player "Ryan Shepherd" hit by Player "Bolat Aslakhanov" with M16A4 from 2.06178 meters 
20:34:35 | Player "Ryan Shepherd" hit by Player "Bolat Aslakhanov" with M16A4 from 2.06178 meters 
20:34:35 | Player "Ryan Shepherd" hit by Player "Bolat Aslakhanov" with M16A4 from 2.06178 meters 
20:34:36 | Player "Ryan Shepherd" hit by Player "Bolat Aslakhanov" with M16A4 from 2.07006 meters 
20:34:36 | Player "Ryan Shepherd" hit by Player "Bolat Aslakhanov" with M16A4 from 2.07006 meters 
20:34:36 | Player "Ryan Shepherd" hit by Player "Bolat Aslakhanov" with M16A4 from 2.07006 meters 
20:34:36 | Player "Ryan Shepherd" hit by Player "Bolat Aslakhanov" with M16A4 from 2.07006 meters 
20:34:36 | Player "Ryan Shepherd" hit by Player "Bolat Aslakhanov" with M16A4 from 2.07006 meters 
20:34:50 | Player "Pasha Novak" hit by Player "Jebediah Foulke" with M4-A1 from 400.108 meters 
20:39:11 | Player "Pasha Novak" hit by Player "Jebediah Foulke" with M4-A1 from 280.46 meters 
20:41:25 | Player "Pasha Novak" hit by Player "Richard Thurman" with LAR from 60.3676 meters 
20:41:27 | Player "Pasha Novak" hit by Player "Richard Thurman" with LAR from 60.2051 meters

 

Kill Logs:

Spoiler
19:43:57 | Player "Jimmy Lorenzo" (DEAD) killed by Player "Dimitri Konashenkov" with LAR from 5.66295 meters 
20:34:06 | Player "Viktor Petrov" (DEAD) killed by Player "Bolat Aslakhanov" with M16A4 from 3.96883 meters 
20:34:18 | Player "Ryan Shepherd" (DEAD) killed by Player "Jebediah Foulke" with M4-A1 from 5.8596 meters 
20:41:25 | Player "Pasha Novak" (DEAD) killed by Player "Richard Thurman" with LAR from 60.3676 meters

 

Connection Logs:

Spoiler
19:30:25 | Player "Viktor Petrov" is connected
-Died-

19:32:22 | Player "Ryan Shepherd" is connected
19:44:56 | Player "Ryan Shepherd" has been disconnected
19:48:05 | Player "Ryan Shepherd" is connected
-Died-

19:03:47 | Player "Dimitri Konashenkov" is connected
19:24:59 | Player "Dimitri Konashenkov" has been disconnected
19:30:25 | Player "Dimitri Konashenkov" is connected
20:56:50 | Player "Dimitri Konashenkov" has been disconnected

18:52:46 | Player "Pasha Novak" is connected
19:25:04 | Player "Pasha Novak" has been disconnected
19:42:23 | Player "Pasha Novak" is connected
19:57:54 | Player "Pasha Novak" has been disconnected
19:58:08 | Player "Pasha Novak" is connected
20:42:39 | Player "Pasha Novak" has been disconnected
20:47:23 | Player "Pasha Novak" is connected
21:20:53 | Player "Pasha Novak" has been disconnected

19:32:14 | Player "Bolat Aslakhanov" is connected
21:13:12 | Player "Bolat Aslakhanov" has been disconnected

19:29:11 | Player "Jebediah Foulke" is connected
21:26:35 | Player "Jebediah Foulke" has been disconnected

19:29:36 | Player "Jimmy Lorenzo" is connected
19:44:09 | Player "Jimmy Lorenzo" has been disconnected
19:45:14 | Player "Jimmy Lorenzo" is connected
21:44:20 | Player "Jimmy Lorenzo" is connected
21:57:57 | Player "Jimmy Lorenzo" has been disconnected

19:31:53 | Player "Richard Thurman" is connected
21:26:32 | Player "Richard Thurman" has been disconnected

19:29:15 | Player "Jacob Makarov" is connected
23:29:34 | Player "Jacob Makarov" is connected
23:32:09 | Player "Jacob Makarov" has been disconnected

 

Calling in:

@Jackfish - Viktor Petrov | POSTED

@Ryan Shepherd - Ryan Shepherd | POSTED

@OxeN - Dimitri Konashenkov | POSTED

@Zman44 - Pasha Novak | POSTED

@JimRP - Bolat Aslakhanov | POSTED

@ScarRP - Jebediah Foulke | POSTED

@ZorullRP - Jimmy Lorenzo | POSTED

@Mak - Jacob Makarov | POSTED

@General Rickets - Richard Thurman | POSTED

For their full detailed POV. Along with any other evidence that they may have. Please also list all of your allies that were involved.

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Posted (edited)

POV: was heading back towards Angel Compound when i heard my friends were getting chased, i tell them to bait them (as in making them chase them into the field) incase anything goes wrong. They get initiated on and @ZorullRP as a freshie sprints towards me and pasha trying to ID us and trail us, obviously PVP scouting. 

I have to run away since i was getting chased by someone i killed in the same area not even 50 minutes ago.

@JimRP Claims he had no clue about @ZorullRP "I was following Scar, didn't pay attention to Zorull so you'd have to ask him about that. I don't think Zorull was following whoever killed him last actively when we met." - JimRP

They were 100% in the same TS cooperating, but that's impossible to prove anyways.

Edited by OxeN

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I'm not sure my input would matter on this one.

I was in the area watching the hills, don't know much about what went on.

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PoV: We roll into Pustoshka and see some people immediately sprint off so we follow them to investigate and ask them whats going on, we follow them (@oxen) for around 5-10 minutes before some shots are fired, unaware of the complete situation due to IRL reasons, I start to get into a position on the hill as I also hear and see that @ZorullRP got gassed. At this point I run into @Jackfish and he begins to talk to me IC but clearly referencing OOC as he mentions that "his teammate is reporting this to the government" and asks me to speak with them over radio, still not fully aware of whats going on I speak to him for a short while where he tells me that "if I move down the hill towards my group I will be shot" at this point I relay that into the radio. I speak with @Jackfish a little longer before hearing some cracks go past me, turning my radio back on I am told I'm needed so I move in, as I'm moving in I hear shots coming from GM so I move to intercept but find no one. After this I move down to the nearest town, unsure which one it was and then went AFK for around 40 minutes. (PoV from the other report but the situations seem to be involved with one another so i'm copying the rest here.) I'm not exactly sure which town I was in but I was AFK for around 40 minutes prior to this initiation in a house. I was AFK due to IRL reasons and being refused perms to log but had to go anyway, I get back and stuff and I hear a load of commotion over the radio, I check in with whats going on and head over and my boys are taking shots. I hear some shots go off and move towards them spotting @Zman44 backing off after taking shots off scar, as he stands still in a bush I tap him in the head and regroup with the rest of the group and hunt the remaining hostiles down.

 

I wasn't really involved in this much I just came in to clean up.

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I will be posting this here as well to ensure that the staff look into it. Rickets when he returned never initiated on Zman44 before killing him. As they are dynamic, he wouldn't have kos rights on Zman.

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@ZorullRP & @Zman44 Will be Temp Banned until they post their full detailed POV. Along with provide us with any other evidence that they may have. 

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Posted (edited)

Sorry for taking a while I was gone for a few days and didn't see that I had been called in

POV: I was sitting in a bush watching our two boys in the field when they were initiated on. I saw one shoot jackfish so I took a shot at him. I missed and started to back off as I was being rushed by some guys. I ran back into the trees and took some pot shots at the two guys following me. they returned fire and hit me. I then hid in a bush and watched the two pursuers pass me. I didn't have a close range gun and had no chance killing them so I let them pass by. I was then shot by Rickets

Edited by Zman44

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@Zman44 Thank you for posting your POV. Your Temp Ban has been lifted. Please keep an eye on this report in case we have anymore questions. 

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