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ZorullRP

Rule 4 bans for OOC Hate

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Posted (edited)

@RolandOne could argue that Cipher's messages (sent on a private discord) were also written in the heat of the moment like Squillium's. If my memory doesn't fail me, the messages that led to his ban where written during/right after a discussion Cipher was having with Aeryes about hostile RP, in which the latter managed to get Cipher really riled up due to his questionable views regarding this type of RP.

You've given people who didn't deserve it 4-5+ "returns from the dead" yet are unwillingly to give Cipher another chance, in spite of the fact that he's a good guy, had a pretty good attitude both on the forums and ig, and pretty much everyone's in favor of his return.

Let me also add, that if everyone who talked shit about someone from the community (be it on a discord, TS ecc.) got snaked and perm'd, you'd probably be playing on the server by yourself; his real mistake was not to realize he had a really petty guy in his discord, looking for anything to get him banned.

Edited by Mak

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I’m not saying I agree or disagree with anyone’s ban. I’ll always be of the mind (this isn’t my official view as staff this is my personal opinion) that people shouldn’t be banned based on what goes on outside of DayZRP with the exception of certain circumstances (For example calling staff Nazis on twitch, etc. as that’s not really private is it?)

 

However, to all the people saying “Now we have to be worried about what we say privately or risk getting banned. And “This has never been the case before and I’m concerned with how it’ll affect the community”....

 

Where have y’all been for the last 5 years? People in 2015 were getting banned for stuff they said in private applications.. I can’t remember every individual one, but I know personally that Zbor, among other individuals and groups, had members banned and groups disbanded for things people had said about staff in private. Were the things nice? No. Did some of the information leaked about individuals in which they confided in someone information or broke rules? Yes. Do I think people who break the rules and got snaked shouldn’t have been banned? No. Breaking the rules should be punished but that’s a different story. 

 

Overall, this has been happening for a while. Don’t flame people over the internet. If you do, do it to someone you know won’t snake you. If you don’t trust anyone, maybe you and your flame is the issue. But this ‘banning people for private discussions’ has been happening for years now. It’s not a new concept. 

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Posted (edited)

Reading this gives me memories of all the bans that were done because of shit through third-party applications.

Saying that, personally its all based on internet safety and security. This is a community, they basically run as a business, anything that could be an issue for a member outside of the community... could be brought here. 

As a member of staff they have a right to protect the members of the community even if its through Third Party, OOC specifically, its cyber-bullying persay and since DayZRP would've known about such things and not done anything about it and then something happened. All hell could rain down on DayZRP as much as the person responsible.

My view on it really is, They have a responsibility and they are forfilling that responsibility perfectly. Protecting members of the community is key.

 

 

 

AFTER LOOKING I NOTICED THERE WERE 2 PAGES !! RIP ME. 

Good'ol Mobile Phones.

Edited by Reaper

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24 minutes ago, Aeryes said:

Questionable views? Please do explain? I like hostile RP, not the current PvP RP we see. Getting snaked? Petty people... Leon Idas isnt petty... 

It happened quite some time ago, so I can't recall the exact conversation, but you were arguing that hostile RP is trash, ruins the community ecc. (tbh with you it was quite ridiculous).

You're telling me taking screenshots of private conversations in order to get someone banned isn't petty? Ok man, whatever you say.

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14 minutes ago, Mak said:

It happened quite some time ago, so I can't recall the exact conversation, but you were arguing that hostile RP is trash, ruins the community ecc. (tbh with you it was quite ridiculous).

You're telling me taking screenshots of private conversations in order to get someone banned isn't petty? Ok man, whatever you say.

This is not really the place and going down this path of conversation only makes this worse. This is not a thread about what was said between Cipher and Aeryes, its about the difference in one persons unbanning versus another in a somewhat similar situation and the confusion surrounding one persons unbanning but not anothers.

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OOC hate should only be bannable if its a ridiculous amount of hate and shit talking or if it is leaking into IG and ruining peoples roleplay experience, doesn't make much sense for someone to be banned for saying some slight flame shit because they got mad or if they are just making nonhurtful jokes.

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The inconsistency with staff has always been and issue with the exceptions of when Terra and Lyca were admins. Differences in perceptions of rules, R4'ing people, etc. It's nothing different here. 

The forgiveness for people who break rules is just as inconsistent. You can have someone who has shown good behavior have their  amnesty appeal denied for seemingly unknown reasons, while others are accepted seemingly instantly. Where Cipher's appeal stands, I dunno, but he was a great community member who was a mentor to many trying to better their RP. Still, it seemingly has no sway in his appeal so far.

At some point, people will have to realize that the inconsistency will always be there and try your best to just not get banned. People are snakes only out to make themselves feel accomplished by getting someone banned, we've all seen it. 

Feels bad though, Cipher had some of the only hostile RP I enjoyed, and he tried his best to have everyone around him uphold that. He was easy to talk to and always looking to better his RP. 

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Ooc hate bans are dumb we’re on the internet people say mean stuff get over it

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9 hours ago, Roland said:

He got frustrated because he's bad at PvP and got outplayed.

1v1 me in Kab

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6 hours ago, Aeryes said:

@Zorull thanks for screenshoting the conversation. At least I now know never to message you directly again. You never even asked me if it was okay to post these pictures on this thread.

Ok, cool.

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28 minutes ago, Aeryes said:

-USER WAS WARNED FOR THIS POST-

No point in cluttering the thread with stuff that isn't needed. 

Anyways I do think Cipher should be let back in, I think we all can agree Cipher had some pretty good roleplay. I still talk to Cipher to this day and all he really wants is to come back and RP, obviously there is bias and I'm sure some people don't like Cipher but I believe if he was let back into the community it would do no harm and I'm sure it will do a lot of good.

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Take me back to when OOC hate needed a case to be built up as proof and not a couple of words/ a sentence said in a discord or anywhere else.

Is this thread about Cipher being unbanned or OOC hate? Seems like it’s drifted towards a friend circles attempt at some sort of appeal for him? He was a chill guy and it sucks he was banned but these threads don’t really do anything for the dude.

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I'm gonna be real, In @Roland's post he says that Squillium was just upset his group got killed by OOC friends. I watched the stream, and that is for the most part true. I don't have any OOC dislike for Squillium or the members of his group, or the people who killed him whatsoever in fact I'm glad to seem him unbanned. However, Squil was continuing on with "Flame" for around 40 minutes in the stream, viewers of the stream were talking trash on 24th as well in the chat. There were some back handed insults thrown towards us, which to be completely honest is fine. I understand people being upset, I understand if people have a natural dislike towards us. Just the other day @HeyItsGrimmessentially flamed the shit out of me in a stream, but I made the grown up decision to talk to him about it. I wasn't upset, I wasn't mad it didn't effect me personally. Grimm simply felt that my RP isn't adequate which is fine that's his opinion. However, many other people in this community would've jumped at that opportunity to get that member perm'd, why? Because, that person is in a hostile group to mine, and one less person to fight in game is justification enough for some. This is the true danger behind the Rule 4 OOC hate violation. None of us in this community are going to be on great terms with everyone, that's fine it's human. But what I've seen happen to so many great RPers is literal Political Assassinations. People taking out of context screenshots from random sources with the sole intent to get a player perm'd because they display a threat to them IC, with little to no actual OOC harassment.  Most people who flame other people on streams and in discords are doing so because they are upset with a comment the target made, or an action done either in game or OOC. This "Flame" is almost never done with malice in mind, and is almost always done as a knee-jerk reaction not to hurt the other player.

I'm not going to necessarily defend Sylva in this case, but he is a great example. The guy made some incredibly stupid decisions, actually a lot of them. The the straw that broke the camels back was a post he sent to another group saying that his group had provided plenty of opportunities for negotiations, but all of that had been broken due to OOC motives. As a result, Sylva felt that the time for negotiating was over, and that PvP was the only way forward to progress the story. These sentiments got him banned, and literally the next week, members of my group were receiving messages from the group Sylva had messaged saying they were never going to RP with us ever. For any reason, and that if we captured one of their men they wouldn't negotiate. On both sides the conduct was poor, however one side decided that the best way to deal with an IC threat was to get that player permanently banned with the hope that their group would dissolve as a result. I'd argue the same thing was done to @Squillium, and to @Cipher. This in my opinion is absolutely Abhorrent, and is worse than flaming, in the end it's nothing more than reverse ruleplay. Doing things OOC with the explicit reasoning to benefit IC. 

It seems to me that age old doctrine of "If you can't beat them in game, beat them in the reports" is back.

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5 hours ago, -CML-NorWayy said:

It seems to me that age old doctrine of "If you can't beat them in game, beat them in the reports" is back.

It never really left. Everyone has some type of dirt on somebody, and one way or another, it always gets in the hands of someone with a grudge. 

6 hours ago, Aeryes said:

Your right in saying Cipher should be let back in. The only issue I see with letting him back in is if you let him in you then have to let everyone with his situation back in too. That's pretty much the only roadblock I see to him getting back into the community. 

Squillium got let back in for flaming, but Roland viewed his as understandable because he died. You can't do anything about staff making the calls on what they feel is understandable grounds for flaming and what isn't.

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Since I've joined the community and joining various chats and such with Cipher and the rest of the boys he has been instrumental in keeping me within the rules without even being able to play the server, he has guided me and taught me a significant amount on the server and proper etiquette and lore related details. I'm pretty new here in the long scheme of things and I don't fully understand whats been done but I can state what I have witnessed from the bloke.

I understand that there is protocol and other guidelines in regards to amnesty and related topics but would another chance really do much damage to the community? Maybe it's worth going out on a limb on this one, if he messes it up then so be it.

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When was the last amnesty for a lot of banned players? I'd hate to be someone who is banned for the same thing to see @Cipher get unbanned, as a community if we voted we'd probably smash this R4 bullshit into the ground whether the staff team would listen is another thing.

When S-GRU got banned we got back on amnesty because we left a hole in the server and the pop literally got cut by 1/3, obviously that didn't happen in this situation but I've always said banning the dedicated players of this server who nearly have a second life on here shouldn't be thing unless they wrack up loads of warning points from reports.

Also regular members should be treated equally with the staff, just because you're staff it doesn't really mean anything apart from your tasks, so if someone flames you, it should be treated the same way as someone flaming a whitename.

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Why OOC hate ban cannot be removed just by forgiveness from the person that was suffering it?

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7 hours ago, Jean said:

Why OOC hate ban cannot be removed just by forgiveness from the person that was suffering it?

I suspect this has to do with the person's potential to repeat the same behavior only aimed at someone else. Cannot confirm, just my conclusion.

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But it's something that he/she is going to risk because not everyone is forgiving.

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Oh boy. I imagine I would have been banned within a week of playing on the server if my messages on 3rd party stuff had been screenshotted. There must have been at least a monthly or even a weekly chance to ban me on the same grounds as well.

I'm completely biased but the matter of the fact is that @Cipher should be unbanned. He should have never been banned in the first place, in my opinion. I've known him for a long time and he's not a bad guy, in fact, he's a great guy and provided great RP on the server for a long time. I see absolutely no reason not to unban him especially since the victim of the hate would like to see him unbanned as well.

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23 hours ago, Jean said:

Why OOC hate ban cannot be removed just by forgiveness from the person that was suffering it?

You win 

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On 4/27/2019 at 2:38 PM, Jean said:

Why OOC hate ban cannot be removed just by forgiveness from the person that was suffering it?

Because we ban the people based on the values they showed in what they said, we do not ban them because of what they said directly or because they made someone feel bad.

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Posted (edited)
On 4/27/2019 at 1:18 PM, General Rickets said:

I understand that there is protocol and other guidelines in regards to amnesty and related topics but would another chance really do much damage to the community? Maybe it's worth going out on a limb on this one, if he messes it up then so be it.

What Rickets said.

Exceptions have been made in the past when the admins/Rolle/Jim deemed it worthy. I myself wouldn't even have been eligible for amnesty hadn't Rolle decided to make an exception and let me back in. 

Edited by Mak

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