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Gaden

Do you believe in the "great filter?"

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Posted (edited)

The great filter is a theory of why the universe is so dead, which ties into the Fermi Paradox. 
 

The Fermi Paradox tldr; There are 40 billion habitable planets, probably more, because the Universe is massive. 
Even if 0.000001% of those planets actually had life, that would mean 400 planets have life.
With this number and basic probability, many people believe we're not alone in the universe. 

Now discovering alien life would actually be bad, because it would reinforce the idea of a great filter, but it also explains why everything is so dead.

There are two theories, either humanity is behind the great filter, or ahead of it. If we're ahead, great, problem solved.

If we're behind that means we're bound for an event that is so critical it leads to our extinction. For example, the dinosaur's "great filter" was the meteor. 

Thoughts?

Edited by Gaden

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Posted (edited)

Listen pal, I already have a hard time coming to grips with the fact that religion is all most likely a lie as Jesus is just a modified version of an ancient African legend / religion and for the most part all religions are just old folk tales modified for different regions of the planet. You think I want to sit alone at night, in the dark wondering if humanity is the only intelligent life in the galaxy?

Edited by Zero

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1 minute ago, Zero said:

 You think I want to sit alone at night, in the dark wondering if humanity is the only intelligent life in the galaxy?

is there any other way to do this? This is exactly what I do! LOL

Have your can of beanz for the sarcasm, it made me laugh.

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Or maybe we simply live in some sort of quarantined zone. Aliens simply cut off all access to this part of our galaxy because we're so stupid and primitive we're not worth their attention. 😄 I mean look at us. There are still people who honestly believe Earth is flat, space is fake, universe is 2000 years old and my favourite of all times "We shouldn't worry so much about global warming. There are much more dire things to worry about. Running out of fossil fuels? Nah. Running out of gravity!".

I mean, I won't be surprised if in our great "wisdom" we will exterminate ourselves. That will be our "great filter" probably.

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17 minutes ago, Tewudin said:

Running out of gravity!".

Yeah that's actually a thing. No joke.

 

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1 minute ago, OldSchoolOG said:

Yeah that's actually a thing. No joke.

--snip video--

Even if its a thing, its ridicolous to freak out over it. I mean, a process like this would take thousands, maybe even hunderds of thousands of years if not longer. 

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1 minute ago, Tewudin said:

Even if its a thing, its ridicolous to freak out over it. I mean, a process like this would take thousands, maybe even hunderds of thousands of years if not longer. 

I mean it's a thing as in people actually think you can "run out" of gravity. It doesn't work that way, but over millions of years, if Earth was to slow its spin, gravity would be reduced. Gravity is not something in "quantity" you can run out of, it's a force exerted inwards toward the center of the Earth due to it's rotation.

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1 minute ago, OldSchoolOG said:

I mean it's a thing as in people actually think you can "run out" of gravity. It doesn't work that way, but over millions of years, if Earth was to slow its spin, gravity would be reduced. Gravity is not something in "quantity" you can run out of, it's a force exerted inwards toward the center of the Earth due to it's rotation.

I mean, I know. People that say "we're running out of gravity, we should stop using it" are nuts but technically it's possible. If, like you say, Earth was to for some reason slow down then gravity would be reduced, it wouldn't be gone fully though. After all its not based solely on rotation speed, mass of the object is also a huge factor. The bigger an object, the bigger force of gravity it creates. Its not the only variable ofc, density is a huge factor too. I mean, look at black holes. Those are mostly smaller than Earth but are so dense that even light can't escape their gravity pull.

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I have had conversations with my colleagues about stuff like this.

We discussed about somethings being such as:

We’re being controlled by a greater power but it replaces itself as a figure like God but it is not of a human of any sort. 

The universe is too large to just have 400 planets affected and we simply cannot state if or if we are not the only ones. There may be life forms away a trillion lightyears that may even be our dopplegangers, parallel universe or us who have adapted more in an evolution stage (or are to still be adapting). Our timeline may be a lot different to those. Some may be futuristic. Others not.

You can’t really say what is and what isn’t when we lack so much knowledge on what is outside our solar system in the many other systems out there. Why? Because our technology can only reach afar. 

The whole running out of gravity and the earth is flat videos are basically memes. You can’t really run out of gravity. For example, Jupiter, the second largest planet (besides the sun) is so large, without even having to land, the gravitational pull is so dense it can basically suck you in and crush you before you land. Planets like these are why life forms perhaps do not even exist. And Pluto, it was remade into a star (which depressed me at the time) before being announced that it is still a planet. Why? Because it kept breaking apart until it was becoming nothing. 

On another hand, black holes are amazing but I wish NASA or someone would send a drone into it and see the effects of what happens. Who knows, it may have a reaction to our technology and intefere, causing some sort of disaster. Curiosity does kill the cat. But if we did manage this, perhaps there is another lifeform, making these holes to see what lifeforms exist like some sort of technology of there own? If so, we may be behind on the evolution rate.

I feel like at the end of the day a TLDR; 

It depends on the planet for lifeforms to inhabit and evolve. Otherwise we cannot tell who or what and who or what is not more evolved.

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Posted (edited)

Well its gonna happen sooner or later, theres quite a lot of these "great filters" we've found evidence for and one is expected within 10,000 years. Stop thinking about all of it though, you'll get the feeling of an existential crisis which can lead to serious mental health problems.

2 hours ago, Zero said:

Listen pal, I already have a hard time coming to grips with the fact that religion is all most likely a lie as Jesus is just a modified version of an ancient African legend / religion and for the most part all religions are just old folk tales modified for different regions of the planet. You think I want to sit alone at night, in the dark wondering if humanity is the only intelligent life in the galaxy?

Spot on, its a conversation for certain types of people ahaha, but how did bible know about all the dimensions and other major scientic theories that humans needed machines worth 100s of millions to prove existed, hmmm. 😂

Edited by Jerry

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The Universe is 13.8 Billion years old, I think its fair to say that there have been civilations before us somewhere, and there will be some after us as well. Also, Religion is cancer.

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If we're the only living beings in all of the universes, I worry for mankind.

I just think that Aliens don't visit our planet because they see the dumb things some of us do and they just say to themselves "Yikes! Fuck that shit, let's not visit this planet!"

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Didn't they already pretty much confirm life outside this planet, even in this solar system?

No, "life" doesn't necessarily has to mean "humanoid creatures" as people like to think, depending on how they want to use or define life. Bacteria etc, the foundations and more can be included. If the theories are right we ourselves, our very beginnings rather, are from space or elsewhere and slowly developed on this planet over a long time.

 

I like the idea of a great filter and yet it kind of scares me a bit. But thing is, if the current predictions about heat death of the universe and so on are true, it doesn't even matter in the long concept of time. Eventually, everything will fade to black and even the concept or idea of time will fade, till everything begins to persist in a state of nothingness. At the latest, when all suns and all matter is basically gone, THAT will be the greatest filter of all. But that's still a long time and some things just "die" way earlier.

 

The only thing we really have to worry about is not seeing a great filter scenario applied in our lifetime, I think. But to go way smaller in scale, I think there's still many possibilities of a "great filter" happening. It could be global war, nuclear war, a super virus, threats from space like meteors, the sun dying with all of us still being in this solar system and not having managed to escape beyond to seed the stars with our bullsh- I mean civilization, etc. If we're lucky as a species we're only just beginning to take steps outside this world and eventually solar system. Maybe we can manage to spread across this galaxy and create or leave behind vital things, maybe we soon perish as a species. The universe will go on. Until it can't.

 

In the end unless you're doing this professionally, you can worry, ponder or gawk all you want but one still has to manage everyday life. My point being, some things shouldn't disencourage you or give you a bleak outlook on life. Be happy you are here now, enjoying what you have. We have the fucking internet and virtual worlds, or the ability to display fiction in movies and games, instead of mere books or thoughts. Enjoy that, for example. Enjoy that you can reach most parts of the world in a relatively short amount of time. Enjoy what civilization brought you or us so far. And enjoy the fact we're at 'relative peace' on this Earth and that we escaped the last potential great filter which was nuclear war in the cold war.

 

For now.

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Nah. Humans here on Earth are probably the most advanced. Even if we did discover advanced life on another planet it would probably be insects or fish or something. 

Now life from other dimensions and realities? That's the real question...

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This the type of shit that gives me an existential crisis when I'm laying in bed at night.

Real talk though, I am a strong believer of other 'intelligent' life in the universe, but it's also really easy to see how other 'intelligent' life could be really sparse. We've been really fortunate, and a lot of specific things have had to happen to create life on Earth. So many things could've gone wrong and so many times it almost did.

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Posted (edited)

Yeah we're probably bound for some kind of extinction event, though it'll probably be way far into the future, maybe like 1000+ years 

Also, if there is alien life out there they are probably not as advanced as us 

Edited by NozzyRP

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Sun is gonna burn us all out soon enough, that's the endgame. 

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I think we don't necessarily have to look 1000 years ahead.

 

I thin we have some very concrete or evident potential Great Filter scenarios ahead within the next few hundred years tops. This could be resource wars or massive migration waves, new cold or global wars, super virus due to rising world population OR also global warming that might unthaw what was once frozen.... or perhaps rogue AI that kills us off because mankind doesn't want seem to want to stop development in that direction. And if no cosmic distaster strikes, it will eventually be the sun that will, in the end of its cycle, bloat and burn us all before it eventually becomes colder or a husk.

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It all depends what you believe in taking into account religious/cultural beliefs etc. there are so many different views on how we came to exist etc. so ultimately it's what you personally want to believe in. Even though I believe in what I'm going to write below (I come from a more scientific point of view) I still think science cannot explain everything.

Scientists believe that there are more stars in the known universe then there are grains of sand on planet earth, now you have digested that I think that there is a bigger probability that there isn't other intelligent life somewhere else in the universe than the probability that there is intelligent life.

In our galaxy alone (The Milky Way Galaxy) there is something like 100 billion stars and to think that around those stars could be other planets and then to think about the rest of the known universe and the planets around those stars and it starts to become absolutely mind boggling. The nearest star to us, other that the sun is 4 light years away so you'd need to travel for 4 years at the speed of light to reach it. The grasp that to travel at the speed of light would be to travel around the world 7 times in one second so if we do start to explore out of the solar system unfortunately it will possibly not be in our lifetime.

I watched this short video a few years ago that tries to explain how massive the universe is and it always stuck with me.

I find it quite interesting to try to understand the vastness of the universe and the endless possibilities but I do not worry about it, what's the point as it is what it is as. I like to look at questions like this with an open mind and with wonder rather than fear/worry.

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10 hours ago, Mademoiselle said:

On another hand, black holes are amazing but I wish NASA or someone would send a drone into it and see the effects of what happens. Who knows, it may have a reaction to our technology and intefere, causing some sort of disaster. Curiosity does kill the cat. But if we did manage this, perhaps there is another lifeform, making these holes to see what lifeforms exist like some sort of technology of there own? If so, we may be behind on the evolution rate.

 

The thing is, propulsion devices at the moment are incredibly crude. Black holes are also hard as fuck to find, so we usually look to the centre of galaxies to find them easily. The one at the centre of our galaxy is over 25,000 light years away, and we'd probably be extinct by the time any probe got there. For context, it will take the Voyager probes 40 thousands years just to travel to proxima centauri, our closest star, at a distance of 4 light years. Then there's the fact that you can't get any information from the probe once it passes beyond the event horizon of the black hole, so we could only gain information up until that point. There's also the chance of the probe getting "spaghettified" depending on the black hole it approaches.

As for the great filter, I don't think we're alone. I actually believe there is life in the solar system already, most likely on the Jovian moon of Europa under the thick ice sheet, and that microbial life itself is incredibly common. However, as for intelligent, space faring civilisations, I believe it's hampered by the fact that either A.

There is no current possible method of exceeding the speed of light, which makes intergalactic colonisation difficult, and communication even more so, or B.

Nobody wants to talk to us because we are a hateful, self destructive species that pollutes its own planet and kills its own people, so we are not mature enough to even worth talking to. Think of us as being nothing more than a toddler, in a room of adults. Nobody is going to try and talk to us about shit. 

I also read a book that proposed that the reason nobody talks is due to the inherent problems of intergalactic travel/communication which makes it hard to build a trustworthy relationship between civilisations, so they will eventually work towards wiping the other out, before the other civilisation does the same to them. And thus, most choose stay quiet, to avoid that risk.

I honestly believe that we'll never crack interstellar travel to a degree where it becomes akin to taking a plane to a different country. I think the furthest we'll ever go is colonising the entire solar system, and then we'll occasionally send out generation ships to neighbouring star systems to create their own civilisations. I do hope I'm wrong though, and if we manage to discover a way of creating exotic matter, we could theoretically create Alcubierre drives which would allow us faster than light travel. However the Alcubierre drive even then has a shit ton of problems with it.

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I feel like all these theories and religion in general is just made up bs, simply because we as humans don't wan't to realize (Or even try to come to terms with) that we are just some random tiny things in an endless universe and one day we'll die and be gone forever. 
Kinda sounded edgy, but that just my thought.

But interesting topic as a whole.

Also, thanks for the headache :,( 

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2 hours ago, Blake said:

I feel like all these theories and religion in general is just made up bs, simply because we as humans don't wan't to realize (Or even try to come to terms with) that we are just some random tiny things in an endless universe and one day we'll die and be gone forever. 
Kinda sounded edgy, but that just my thought.

But interesting topic as a whole.

 Also, thanks for the headache :,( 

That is a very popular view, called Nihilism. 

And while it's hard to accept it, the belief does have a lot of merit. Just consider how small of a blip we are in time.. I mean, time is infinite, and we aren't. 500 billion people have come and gone, and 7 billion are currently alive. 

That's a whole lot to take in, but the universe is so amazing!

I'm not sure if everyone follows the news like I do, it was big news so chances are a lot of you will already know about it, but this is the first ever picture of an actual black hole. 
4kNxY12.png

Everything else you have seen was simulated, but that, is the real thing. What a time to be alive!

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4 hours ago, Gaden said:

That is a very popular view, called Nihilism. 

And while it's hard to accept it, the belief does have a lot of merit. Just consider how small of a blip we are in time.. I mean, time is infinite, and we aren't. 500 billion people have come and gone, and 7 billion are currently alive. 

That's a whole lot to take in, but the universe is so amazing!

I'm not sure if everyone follows the news like I do, it was big news so chances are a lot of you will already know about it, but this is the first ever picture of an actual black hole. 
4kNxY12.png

Everything else you have seen was simulated, but that, is the real thing. What a time to be alive!

I never actually imagined that I'd see a picture of an actual black hole in my lifetime so that was a pleasant surprised. Although its all blurry and everything (no surprise there, its so far away) it's still an amazing photo. One that confirms all along that those objects exsist finally silencing those that proudly claimed they're a figment of our imagination.

Also time isn't infinite when you think about it. I mean if we assume for a few moments that Big Bang really happened (I mean, we don't know, that's why its theory) then time isn't infinite. There was a moment when it didn't exsisted. Assuming that Big Bang happened. There are lots of theories supporting other beginnings of the universe and some proclaim it's always exsisted. Then again, whenever scientist try to (somehow, I'm not sure how exactly) measure the age of the universe it's always comes back with a figure of around 13.5/14 billion years.

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