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Kase

S1: Invalid Initiation / Attempted KOS / Rule Violation 2.3 / Possible Stream Sniping / NFVL - 2019-04-19 - 02:25

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Posted (edited)

Server and location: S1 - Altar Radio

Approximate time and date of the incident (SERVER TIME): 02:15 2019/04/19

Your in game name: Kase Mcilwrath

Names of allies involved: @HeyItsGrimm, @EriK, @Tasnik, @RiZStream, @duxpredator, @lukek25, @Mademoiselle

Name of suspect/s: Jackals

Friendly/Enemy vehicles involved (if any): N/A

Additional evidence? (video/screenshot): Videos will be uploaded based on allies POV's

Detailed description of the events: 
Kase's POV: I was at Altar Radio with my group and some other side people who we were rping with us when the Jackals decided to pull up on us and have a chat, we had just finished our RP and decided to make our way down the road to Gorka, I told my group we would be heading down and as we were just past the cement walls, I hear gunshots behind me and suddenly all my men are being shot at. I was only told OOC via third-party comms that we were initiated on; however my character has not heard them due to VOIP range. My friend was shot immediately after the initiation dropped and all of us being shot at, we began to return fire in confusion at those shooting at us. I am then shot again by two people at once and I die.

Rulebreaks broken down in my understanding of the rules.

Invalid Initation: Rule 4.1 "All initiations and hostile actions as well as their demands and conditions must be made clear and unambiguous to all involved players. Hostile actions or initiations must be done personally and on specific targets who must be aware who the attacker is, for example they cannot be done remotely through radio or PA system."

Rulebreak: The initiation was not only unclear to those who weren't in VOIP range but it was made without a megaphone for the rest of us who were not close enough to hear it, therefor not all of us were aware of why a firefight sprung out.

Attempted KOS Rulebreak: Those who were not in VOIP range had no IC nor OOC knowledge of the initiation until shots were fired and our friend was killed. Giving us zero time to comply or speak with them before we were shot, I did not fire back until I was hit once as I was running back up the hill to assess the situation.

Rule Violation 2.3: This is now two days within 3 that the Jackals have initiated on us and fired upon our men without any provocation (to my knowledge) or past hostile encounters. I believe the violation more so lies in the bit of "Remember that not many players will enjoy being constantly attacked, therefore you should not dominate other groups or players into submission to a point where they can no longer accomplish their regular role play or enjoy the game." which is completely applied to both situations. Though since it was our first interaction, I had no issues but this is twice now within 3 days from each other.

Possible Stream Sniping: This is obviously not something to be proven but more so opinionated and based off the knowledge I have been given. The Jackals have now found us twice out of randomness in locations that make 0 possible sense for people to be around as there's rarely any activity around them (I am willing to give the benefit of the doubt they aren't stream sniping.) Though not long after our first encounter with them 2 days ago, they were very quick to clip bits of a stream from one of my members streams which shows they were well aware of his streaming channel and the fact that immediately after the firefight ended they had the clips already prepared not very long after, I have reason to suspect that they were watching it the whole time.

NVFL: 3.2 "Your character must behave realistically and appropriately to the different situations you participate in, keeping the current world situation and context of post-apocalyptic world in mind. Do not act in a way that indicates no value for your characters life and survival. For example, attempting to kill people when heavily outnumbered."

Rulebreak: There was roughly 8 of us and only 2-4 of you who approached and that were confirmed at the location. While you may have had weapons (not all automatics but I don't think that applies, I may be wrong.) Your group was heavily outnumbered and still decided to initiate on a group of 8 people, in a realistic scenario, where we had the upper advantage in numbers and our weapons (all of us had automatic firearms while some of you had SKS's and only one I saw had an AK.) this shows your characters weren't there to succeed in that firefight as you knew the outcome. (Even if it wasn't realistic because of PvP mechanics.)

I would like to add as a note that before anyone tries to accuse me by saying: "You're just trying to post as many rule breaks as you can and see what shit sticks to the wall." This is not the case, I believe many rules were broken in this situation and this is not acceptable. It was the prime reason some of my members did not play the day prior as we suggested they "Take a break from the game" and I have many chat logs in DM's I can provide to back up this claim.

Edit Note: I will not be responding unless asked by Staff Touching the report

Edited by Kase

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Spencers POV: Me and the Mac Tire boys were up at altar radio role playing with some people when member of who we know believe to be jackals show up. We rp for a little bit and then Kase calls it time for us to leave so we rally up and begin heading down the hill. As we are walking with me and kase in the front of the group, I hear a burst of fire from an automatic weapon. Then in ooc comms I hear one of our boys claim hes dead and has been shot. No initiation was ever heard or made clear to the people not in  VOIP range. After that more shots came towards us out in the field. Some of us broke contact and ran while some didnt have the chance and were gunned down. I managed to run away from the fight and survive with out ever being hit.

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Hutch's POV: The boys and I met up at Altar Radio to get the group together. I showed up late and they were already engaged in some RP with various people. Some other guys (potentially Jackals) arrived where we were and talked with Kase and others for just a few minutes. No one did anything to provoke the others to my knowledge. Kase rallies the group and we start moving away from the radio towers. We get comms that there were arm bands going on and seemingly instantly get fired upon. Some of us died nearly immediately and others ran for our lives. 

Here is a clip of the initiation from my POV: 

 

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Posted (edited)

Sauce's POV. Some guys randomly approach us (I believe that is Mademoiselle, we met about an hour earlier) and act very sketchy and one guy can barely stay in character (He was barely speaking and then acted out of RP to check if we could hear him). However, these guys seemed very interested in our group for some reason. They even talked about another fellow that showed up a minute or two earlier saying he was with a bigger group but when I brought it to him he said he was alone. I don't know if there people were together but they definitely not far from each other. At the time I deafened the OOC radio coms so I could focus on RP which was enjoyable but quickly everything turned south. After we finished our RP, Kase whistles (a que for us to follow) so I follow and then see a guy in a red arm band and one other (jackals I believe) chase after us so I inform everyone and then immediately hear gunfire (clearly in the video you cannot hear any warnings or initiations but just gunfire) so I turn tail and run. I then turn my OOC radio back on to see whats going on but I try to stay out of it as I do not want PVP. I want to RP... I never shoot a shot and just try to figure out who is shooting us. Eventually I group up with Hutch and continue our RP.

Edit: I would also like to say that the last session I played and tried to RP the Jackals again were around and initiated on us (Mac Tire) while we were RPing with the Toy Makers and a Cult. Again we are just trying to RP but get dragged into these fights which is the reason I ran instead of fighting this go around.

 

Edited by duxpredator

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Posted (edited)

Shroud POV:

Hello there Gents, it was me and my boys who decided to initiate on you today, so lets go from the start.

Me,Bobby,and Strawberry roll up to the guys as they are leaving the camp from some sort of meeting they were having at the radio tower, me and bobby initiate on the gentlemen in front of us, one runs off to my right and aims his weapon so i fire and kill him, Bobby then kills the Green mountain backpack guy who tried to run from what i understand. After this we hold off from firing on the rest of the main group, as we were having Dew and Viking come up right behind and Dew had a Megaphone he was going to use to initiate on the men in the field since we were not sure they heard our initial initiation or not, however before Dew can drop it some of the group members of the guys we kill rush up and begin taking fire at Me and Viking, so i return fire since we were fired upon and Viking dies in the process. after that bobby gets lit up by another guy who we kill and the other two gentlemen run away and we decide not to pursue.

So i'll go over some of the rule breaks we are being accused of,

Invalid Initiation - it was not invalid on who we were initiating on as they heard it loud and clear and decided not to comply, the only reason others were shot is because they rushed up the hill and started taking shots at us first, thus putting us into a situation where we had to defend ourselves, as i said previously Dew planned on initiating again with the megaphone however by that point they were already upon us.

Attempted KOS: I see you said that you were shot first before firing back, i doubt this as from what my boys did in that situation and what I've been told everyone else held fire on the rest until shots were fired from the OP's group when they got close to us, and you can even hear the lull in the exchange of fire until their boys push up the hill and open up on us.

Rule 2.3: This is kind of joke, getting into a firefight with you twice in the span of 72 hours is definitely not constant attacks friend.

Stream Sniping: Just no, followed a gentlemen in all black from novy area up to the radio tower, not sure who he was with.

NVFL: there was 5 of us fighting 6, not sure how that's NVFL, you say @Mademoiselle and her friend were your allies, but they certainly did not act as such, as we found them huddling in a shed mid fire fight and they didn't do anything hostile towards us.

 

I would also like to add i guess you could call it a little counter report since one of their boys was pretty blatantly metagaming our positions and how many of us he thought there were in this clip we found while going over the VOD.

 

If the OP and his group would like to discuss this report we are more than happy to do so, not a fan of writing these back and forths.

Edited by Shroud
wrong clip

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Posted (edited)

Taji Tian: So I link up with @Dew outside of Novy and they say that there are people heading up to Gorka and that we're following them. The two of us get up there right as they initiate. I see someone run into the little eletrical building, walk up and it's Hope and one of her friends. They say they don't know whats going on and I tell them to stay inside so they don't get hurt. I walk up onto one of the little hills at the compound and get sniped, dead.

Also, while combing through your vod I noticed the same guy  who in @Shroud's post was Metagaming was saying that he wanted to find us and shoot us,, and that he "Doesn't care if he catches a ban."

As a community member that is a VERY toxic mindset. You should take getting banned seriously and not say that you want to KOS people just because you lost a little bit of gear as throughout the majority of the situation you complained a lot about losing it because of your death.

Also after scanning a little bit more , I found this little bit of hurtfulness

 

Edited by Viking

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Ctac's POV: We arrived at the Altar Radio towers with Yelena to give her a hunting scope a couple of suspicious individuals showed up and were acting strange (as if they wanted to win time by holding us up in the region). After some talking I saw the boys moving and I followed them, thats where I turned around looking and recognised, that one of the persons in black put on his orange armband, which I called out to my boys ingame. I belive Maksim confirmed that. Just seconds after that I heard a rather heated mumbling, which I didnt understand a single word of and then the shots started (video bellow):

https://streamable.com/tugoq

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Hello, it is I.

Yelena Kostol POV (and terrible accent, please pardon me for my attempt...):

I had originally met Mac Tyre in Camp Hope (Novy Sobor Summer Camp) whilst searching for a hunting scope. I am told they have one back at the car in Altar Radio. We head there and meet a guy with no gear what so ever on him. We roleplay with him for a bit before people come popping out of the wood works. I see the group finally leave without even telling me what was going on. To my confusion I thought they were having some sort of group discussion before I hear multiple shots and retreat to the shed with one other guy before the other guy appears to talk to us in the shed. I heard no initiation so I didn't wanna get mis-Id'd. When I heard footsteps from outside, there is a ventilation system in which I attempted to roleplay with whoever it was. Mainly to avoid being shot for something I was probably not apart of.

All I know is @Dew's microphone was not working and he had to text RP. Not saying it is something but a possibility why the group did not hear an initiation if Dew had tried using VOIP.

 

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Tasnik said:

Ctac's POV: We arrived at the Altar Radio towers with Yelena to give her a hunting scope a couple of suspicious individuals showed up and were acting strange (as if they wanted to win time by holding us up in the region). After some talking I saw the boys moving and I followed them, thats where I turned around looking and recognised, that one of the persons in black put on his orange armband, which I called out to my boys ingame. I belive Maksim confirmed that. Just seconds after that I heard a rather heated mumbling, which I didnt understand a single word of and then the shots started (video bellow):

https://streamable.com/tugoq

Didn't understand a word of? you can clearly hear me and bobby initiate in  your clip my guy

Edited by Shroud

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Who was being toxic in the clip posted above?

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1 minute ago, JimRP said:

Who was being toxic in the clip posted above?

Which clip?

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Just now, Kase said:

Which clip?

The ones from RiZ's stream.

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Just now, JimRP said:

The ones from RiZ's stream.

@lukek25

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1 minute ago, Kase said:

User has been permanently removed, carry on with the report.

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1 minute ago, JimRP said:

User has been permanently removed, carry on with the report.

I understand why, is this an R4?

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Just now, Kase said:

I understand why, is this an R4?

Due to the amount of poor attitude that he showed and him going out of his way to flame someone on stream, he's been R4'd due to going against core values of our community.

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Just now, JimRP said:

Due to the amount of poor attitude that he showed and him going out of his way to flame someone on stream, he's been R4'd due to going against core values of our community.

Okay, just wanted to clear it up.

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Hit Logs

02:19:14 | Player "Maksim Petrov" hit by Player "Yegor Krasnov" with KA-M from 17.3714 meters 
02:19:14 | Player "Maksim Petrov" hit by Player "Yegor Krasnov" with KA-M from 17.4291 meters 
02:19:15 | Player "Maksim Petrov" hit by Player "Yegor Krasnov" with KA-M from 17.3167 meters 
02:19:46 | Player "Kase Mcilwrath" hit by Player "Yegor Krasnov" with KA-M from 22.522 meters 
02:19:48 | Player "Kase Mcilwrath" hit by Player "Yegor Krasnov" with KA-M from 24.2005 meters 
02:19:54 | Player "Yegor Krasnov" hit by Player "Eric Donaldson" with M4-A1 from 48.7266 meters 
02:19:56 | Player "Taji Tian" hit by Player "Ctac Gavrelyk" with BK-133 from 72.5927 meters 
02:20:11 | Player "Ctac Gavrelyk" hit by Player "Joe Dewski" with M4-A1 from 82.5204 meters 
02:20:12 | Player "Ctac Gavrelyk" hit by Player "Bobby Sullivan" with SK 59/66 from 37.4247 meters 
02:20:12 | Player "Ctac Gavrelyk" hit by Player "Joe Dewski" with M4-A1 from 84.2644 meters 
02:20:36 | Player "Bobby Sullivan" hit by Player "Eric Donaldson" with M4-A1 from 43.6156 meters 
02:20:42 | Player "Bobby Sullivan" hit by Player "Eric Donaldson" with M4-A1 from 36.1342 meters 
02:20:43 | Player "Bobby Sullivan" hit by Player "Eric Donaldson" with M4-A1 from 35.7376 meters 
02:20:47 | Player "Bobby Sullivan" hit by Player "Eric Donaldson" with M4-A1 from 26.0146 meters 
02:21:14 | Player "Eric Donaldson" hit by Player "Yegor Krasnov" with KA-M from 21.782 meters 
02:21:14 | Player "Eric Donaldson" hit by Player "Yegor Krasnov" with KA-M from 21.9651 meters 
02:21:16 | Player "Eric Donaldson" is unconscious
02:21:22 | Player "Eric Donaldson" hit by Player "Joe Dewski" with M4-A1 from 2.01477 meters 

Kill Logs

02:19:15 | Player "Maksim Petrov"  killed by Player "Yegor Krasnov"  with KA-M from 17.3167 meters 

02:19:48 | Player "Kase Mcilwrath" killed by Player "Yegor Krasnov" with KA-M from 24.2005 meters 

02:19:56 | Player "Taji Tian" killed by Player "Ctac Gavrelyk"  with BK-133 from 72.5927 meters 

02:20:12 | Player "Ctac Gavrelyk" killed by Player "Joe Dewski"  with M4-A1 from 84.2644 meters 

02:21:22 | Player "Eric Donaldson" killed by Player "Joe Dewski"  with M4-A1 from 2.01477 meters 

Connection Logs

00:58:08 | Player "Kase Mcilwrath" is connected 
-KILLED-
02:24:57 | Player "Kase Mcilwrath" has been disconnected

01:12:53 | Player "Yegor Krasnov" is connected 
02:55:15 | Player "Yegor Krasnov" has been disconnected

00:48:59 | Player "Maksim Petrov" is connected 
-KILLED-
02:33:41 | Player "Maksim Petrov" has been disconnected

02:06:56 | Player "Eric Donaldson" is connected 
-KILLED-
02:21:27 | Player "Eric Donaldson" has been disconnected

01:49:34 | Player "Joe Dewski" is connected 
02:55:40 | Player "Joe Dewski" has been disconnected

01:58:22 | Player "Taji Tian" is connected 
-KILLED-
02:20:28 | Player "Taji Tian" has been disconnected

00:42:58 | Player "Ctac Gavrelyk" is connected 
-KILLED-
02:22:36 | Player "Ctac Gavrelyk" has been disconnected

01:10:04 | Player "Bobby Sullivan" is connected 
02:23:59 | Player "Bobby Sullivan" has been disconnected
02:24:08 | Player "Bobby Sullivan" is connected 
02:56:02 | Player "Bobby Sullivan" has been disconnected

23:44:01 | Player "Roy Hutchinson" is connected 
02:56:02 | Player "Roy Hutchinson" has been disconnected

00:55:09 | Player "Nick Sauce" is connected 
02:56:02 | Player "Nick Sauce" has been disconnected

00:27:33 | Player "Spencer Grimm" is connected 
02:56:02 | Player "Spencer Grimm" has been disconnected

23:53:48 | Player "Yelena Kostel" is connected 
02:56:02 | Player "Yelena Kostel" has been disconnected

Chat Logs

02:23:39 | Chat("Joe Dewski"): CAN YOU HEAR ME
02:24:07 | Chat("Joe Dewski"): DROP IT
02:24:20 | Chat("Joe Dewski"): get outta here
02:24:22 | Chat("Joe Dewski"): now

Calling in:

@BobbySullivan, @lukek25, @Dew for their full and detailed PoV, please also provide any unedited evidence you might have regarding this situation.

OP'S PARTY
@Kase - Kase Mcilwrath | POSTED
@lukek25 - Maksim Petrov | POSTED
@HeyItsGrimm - Spencer Grimm | POSTED
@EriK - Eric Donaldson | POSTED
@Tasnik - Ctac Gavreylk | POSTED
@RiZStream - Roy Hutchinson | POSTED
@duxpredator - Nick Sauce | POSTED

ACCUSED PARTY
@Shroud - Yegor Krasnov | POSTED
@Dew - Joe Dewski | POSTED
@YNW Viking - Taji Tian | POSTED
@BobbySullivan - Bobby Sullivan | POSTED

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Posted (edited)

My group and I were talking to some strangers at the tower when we decided it was time to leave. during our departure I recognized we were being trailed and the men had put on armbands. Once we made it on the outside of the walls of the radio tower someone said put your hands up really fast, in turn I ran about 10 to 20 steps turn around and get shot while bringing my weapon on target. 

Edited by lukek25

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Bobby Sullivan POV: I dont really remember exactly what happened, All I remember was Me and Shroud were at Altar and saw a big group of people having some sort of meeting, WE talked to 2 other people that were not a part of the meeting for a bit. We then see them all leaving so we decide to initiate. One guy turns around and aims a gun at shroud and he kills him. We werent sure if the rest heard the initiation so we were going to wait for Dew to come with a megaphone to re initiate. Then I believe we killed 2-3 more and the rest got away.

 

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Thank you Bobby, your temp ban was removed.

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Joe Dewski POV: I'm told there is a large group meeting at Altar. @YNW Viking and I make our way towards Altar. Shroud or Bobby initiates some of the people that were still on at atlar within voip. Those people don't comply, they get killed. Viking and I run up with my megaphone to initiate but Viking immediately got tapped and then I start getting shot at. A firefight ensues I kill some people that were shooting at me.

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Outcome:

@Shroud - Invalid Initiation | Guilty

@BobbySullivan - Invalid Initiation | Guilty

Jackals - NVFL | Not Guilty

Jackals - Stream Sniping | Inconclusive

@lukek25 - Metagaming | Guilty

Explanation:

To shortly summarize the situation. Mac Tire is roleplaying at Altar Radio when a few others show up. They decide that they should leave as they are leaving they spot people with red armbands sprinting towards them. When a few of them get initiated on at the top of the road. Some don't comply and get killed while the others further down run for cover and start to take shots. Both sides trades kills until the remaining break line of sight and make it away.

Moving onto the rulebreaks that are in question. First I will talk about the Invalid Initiation. Not everyone in the OPs group heard the initiation so they didn't know what was going on making the initiation invalid. The initiation was directed towards everyone because @Shroud & @BobbySullivan say "All of you put your hands up right now..." Only the ones at the top of the road heard the initiation and reacted to it, but the ones at further down did not hear and and were still fired upon after a few seconds.  

Next we will talk about the No Value For Life (NVFL). According to the logs and POVs there were more than just 2 Jackels. So, they were not heavily out numbered or out gunned. They were only down by 2 men according to the logs but they had greater firepower in the means of weapons. 

Now with the whole Stream Sniping there is no evidence that backs this claim therefore we can not punish anyone for Stream Sniping.

Moving onto the Counter Report for Metagaming. The Staff Team have reviewed the VOD from the stream and can hear @lukek25 stating how many there was after he got killed. Therefore @lukek25 will be punished for Metagaming.

The rules that support this verdict:

  • 3.2 Your character must behave realistically and appropriately to the different situations you participate in, keeping the current world situation and context of post-apocalyptic world in mind. Do not act in a way that indicates no value for your characters life and survival. For example, attempting to kill people when heavily outnumbered, excessively talking back or insulting someone when taken hostage, or knowingly running into an area of active hostile engagement when not involved in the fight. Characters found guilty of breaking this rule will be permanently marked as dead.
  • 3.5 Metagaming is an situation where Out Of Character information is transferred in game and changed into In Character information, despite there being no realistic way of characters gaining this information. For example, your character knowing someones name because you used the games "Check pulse" feature, or you sharing information after your character has died, is unconscious, surrendering (F2 animation), handcuffed or have had your radio taken away.
  • 4.1 All initiations and hostile actions as well as their demands and conditions must be made clear and unambiguous to all involved players. Hostile actions or initiations must be done personally and on specific targets who must be aware who the attacker is, for example they cannot be done remotely through radio or PA system.

Before I close out I would like to make a few suggestions. When it comes to an initiation please make sure that it is clear and can be heard by everyone that it is directed towards. This will make sure that there is no confusion as to who heard it or confusion as to what is going on or happening. We would also like to remind everyone that once you die you are not able to communicate or pass information to your allies over the radio this is considered Metagaming because it gives an unfair advantage.

Verdict:

@Shroud - Invalid Initiation | Guilty - 3 Day Ban & 10 Warning Points

@BobbySullivan - Invalid Initiation | Guilty - 3 Day Ban & 10 Warning Points

Jackals - NVFL | Not Guilty

Jackals - Stream Sniping | Inconclusive - No Action Taken

@lukek25 - Metagaming | Guilty - 3 Day Ban & 10 Warning Points

Signed by: @Samti, @Onyx, & @RandyRP w/ Notes

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