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Mugin

Item Durability and Duct tape Exploit

Allow the duct tape exploit?  

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So I will not mention how to achieve this exploit because I really just want to gauge the communities feelings towards it, given no one else has mentioned it at all.

There is a way to refresh a roll of duct tape ig to use it indefinitely. This can be seen as a problem and a blessing, and perhaps most people will be pissed I am even drawing attention to it, but this games durability system is not realistic and if in time we could fix it/the server for RP purposes, that'd be ideal. Granted progress takes time, and I feel there are multiple ig concerns stemming from this issue.

Concerns:
1. How easily cloths are damaged due to infected and the survivor lifestyle... Lets be honest everyone cares about their apparel (look at the Item Shop)

2. How guns and suppressors break way too quickly. (mainly suppressors)

     a. Especially given the rarity of suppressors they're practically useless if you want to fire more than 20 shots in one sitting. (which is sometimes common in a firefight) 

3. Overall item durability is not realistic. Axes, crowbars, knives, etc.

4. Repair items durability is broken and they don't last long enough.

I feel like this exploit should be TEMPORARILY allowed.

If we can perhaps fix those aforementioned problems, and some I may be forgetting, with the game then I see no problem in removing the exploit all together. That being said I think it's a quality of life mechanic that should stay until those problems are fixed. Similar to the old apple tree exploit where you could *shake the tree* when there was food shortages, and the water pump glitch.

What it comes down to is quality of life. I don't want to have to carry a whet stone, weapon cleaning kit, sewing kit, and a leather sewing kit just to ensure I don't look like a hobo and have functioning equipment that doesn't ruin within 30min of actual use. I'd be okay carrying all that if the repair items themselves didn't break so easily, but they do!

DisclaimerObviously it's not even realistic to repair all these items with just duct tape. Especially guns... but I also feels it's unrealistic for durability to be so broken.

Let me know what you think.

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Prefacing This: I will follow the rules as they are written regardless of my opinion on them.

That being said, I have to agree I'd prefer to just have to carry ductape around with me than the plethora of specialized items used to repair other items. I'd prefer if this was allowed until a time when the duration of the aforementioned things can be fixed. Fixes for at least one of these things is already in the works. 

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I personally voted yes, because you're very correct, stuff gets damaged way too quickly/easily, and it can be a pain to maintain gear, whether it be for roleplay purposes or actual gameplay.  I honestly don't see the downside to people having steady access to such a basic item, even if it ends up being used for restraints and not repair.  It would overall increase the quality of RP and decrease focus on worrying about gear.

That being said, I've had some quality interactions centered around fixing my raggedy-ass clothes or repairing someone's gun.

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Posted (edited)

I can definitely agree with the point about suppressors. Pretty useless right now which makes guns sort of hit or miss risk wise when deciding to use one over a melee weapon.

And considering you can make bottle suppressors with duct tape, it just goes to show how useful it is to have around for QoL.

Edited by Highlander

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yeah it isn't exactly "game breaking" and the only advantage i can see is that you dont need to waste an hour looking for one or more of the repair tools you may need.  People here like to look a certain way for their character and with the way things are with stuff getting ruined extremely fast it should be ok to use.

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Posted (edited)

With the ease of which clothing gets damaged from zombies and the like being able to use duct tape to fix and look like how your character should is a good thing in my book (which is the book of Mann PRAISE BE)

Edited by nisbo

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Just now, nisbo said:

With the ease of which clothing gets damaged from zombies and the like being able to use duct tape to fix and look like how your character should is a good thing in my book (which is the book of Mann PRAISE BE)

I agree with you completely, you sexy beast.

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It's an exploit but at the same time the apple glitch was overlooked and no one cared and with clothing now getting fucked in a manner of two hits this should be allowed just like any other small bug that has been exploited in the masses.

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It should be allowed considering how easy it is for clothing to break. Sewing kits also aren't everywhere so it's kinda needed if you don't want your outfit to break. 

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Posted (edited)

This should be allowed (if not encouraged, then a blind eye would be preferred) until the durability of various items (where it would make sense) is raised notably. Not just a bit, but in a somewhat realistic faction (in most cases I'd think of, that is more than 'a bit').

 

In my case silencers usually break quickly. I doubt they do that easily in reality, not that I am an expert on real life silencer durability, but I bet it's more than like a full pistol mag or half an assault rifle mag till bursting point or notable ripples or cracks pop up.

 

I'm also inclined to believe those able to decide would agree with me; after all, people also notably raised the durability of lock picks to a believable level. We could as well do the same with clothing, silencers, etc.

Edited by Combine

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Mugin said:

-snip-

General comment:

I will start off by saying, I, among many other players have used this exploit at least once, since I was told about it. Most players ICly, seem to call it "stretching the duct-tape".

Now, I play CampfireRP and focus on survival aspects of the game, so I carry just about every damn repair tool in the game, such as; Duct-tape, sewing kit, leather-sewing kit, sharpening tool, weapon-cleaning kit, and epoxy putty. I will say, that it's appears the players I encountered find this exploit socially acceptable; such as the "apple-tree glitch" or the "water-fountain glitch". However, even when roleplayed, it's still technically against the rules.

Do I think players who've done this previously, or presently should be punished? No, you'd have to rule out a large portion of the player-base, and I don't envy the staff members who have to sift through months of "<player> was restrained by item 'duct-tape' by <themselves>" logs.

Do I believe it should be allowed? For now, sure, if it's temporary.

Do I think it's fair? No. I haul around the extra weight, and take up more inventory space in-order to carry all that supplies & repair kits. I go through the effort of finding them all. But right now, anyone can just go find a roll of duct-tape, and get unlimited uses, and suddenly all of the other repair kits are obsolete.

My opinion of duct-tape itself? I honestly think duct-tape's percentile usage should be used up more quickly, (perhaps 2X). In general, you can get four repairs out of a roll easily. I find it odd it can repair any item that is usually required by a specific repair kit, in the game. It's over-powered, it needs to be balanced. 

I can find a few rolls within 15 minutes if I really tried. Just round up some infected AI in an industrial complex, and circle back when you're done killing them all, and repeat.

 

My other counter arguments:

As much as I hate the durability of items sometimes, I think it's fine the way it is... I don't think your argument is valid.

  • Tool argument - If you're chopping trees with your axe, it will eventually start to get dull or chipped after two or three trees, depending on the tree species, and/or if the tree is alive, etc. Also, reality is, no one can chop a tree down in 16 swings (4 hits per the 4 rotation), unless you're a big ol' strong lumberjack giant.
  • Cloth damage - If you get attacked by infected, chances are you're going to get scruffed up.
  • Suppressor durablity - In real life, If you shoot 60 rounds all at one, in full-auto with your assault rifle, you're going to fry the suppressor. Same concept if you're shooting a LMG, you're going to heat the barrel until it explodes/melts. I am sure you've noticed suppressors last a lot longer when you shoot in single-fire mode.

 

 

 

Edited by CamoRP

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I mean, people use to glitch apple tree to have unlimited food, making a key feature of DayZ obsolete and it was tolerated. Cant imagine the duct tape exploit being such a big deal. 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Misho said:

Duct tape removed tomorrow? - confirmed.

Actually, how about instead of removing it, just code out the game mechanic that allows it to repair items. That way it's solely used for crafting items, and restraining hostages.

Another idea, allow repairs the way it did in 0.62 (and previous patches), where it only repairs items slightly, such as from Badly Damaged to Damaged condition.

Edited by CamoRP

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6 minutes ago, Misho said:

Duct tape removed tomorrow? - confirmed.

remove stashes too and nerf zombies ty x

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Hello. I covered this a while back in my post detailed here.

Should be allowed but disabled for tool usage. Is what I think, but with how things break wayyyyyy to easily. Yes, allow it as a "feature" until patched of course because dayz devs hate fun.

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9 minutes ago, CamoRP said:

_snip_

Suppressor and Guns: There are no LMG's ig atm, along with that I don't think everyone means to stress test their weapon and suppressor every time they're in a firefight. I would imagine the wear is the same, and varies on how many round are fired. I could be mistaken, given I don't often count, but I will next time to test it.

Axes and tools: I used to fell trees and split wood for a living, obviously we'd use chainsaws primarily, but you can get through more than four trees that share the width of the trees you can chop down ig without your axe falls apart or become unusable (ruined). Granted the trees ig show next to now knots so they're would be even less chance of your axe chipping. Depends on the axe and person though.

Cloths: People would rather worry about aesthetics, especially since they buy clothes on the ig market. We have no way of testing cloths v. zombies so. 

Duct tape: There is about 120ft worth of tape in an average quality roll of duct tape. Which I mean comparing images with the DayZ item is about the same size I would say. So I think limiting it even further would be a bad move.

Overall what I am trying to reiterate is I feel quality of life trumps realism in all those cases while durability is busted. I would rather durability be improved to make the game more realistic.

3 minutes ago, Misho said:

Duct tape removed tomorrow? - confirmed.

 

That's a quick fix yeah... It'll just avoid the problem at hand I am trying to help bring attention to to remedy.

Durability is pretty busted. 

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On a more serious note, since no one had reported this bug and the way to do it, it's been overlooked. In reality it's an easy fix that we will push ASAP.

The roll of tape will be used up without returning anything upon breaking free once the fix is in.

About the other issues like repairing metal stuff, that requires us to change the code of all the objects that can be repaired with it, which might be something we do in the future but it's a bigger project which takes more time to finish.

The third thing being discussed, durability of items is also something that has to be to each individual item which would clutter us with new classes. I don't believe anyone on the team is up for the that task tbh.

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Posted (edited)

 

2 minutes ago, Misho said:

---The roll of tape will be used up without returning anything upon breaking free once the fix is in.---

That works I guess.

2 minutes ago, Misho said:

---About the other issues like repairing metal stuff, that requires us to change the code of all the objects that can be repaired with it, which might be something we do in the future but it's a bigger project which takes more time to finish.---

Well, whenever the time comes, perhaps you can add shovels and hammers to the list of items that can be repaired. To my understanding nothing can repair those items right now.

Edited by CamoRP

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2 minutes ago, Misho said:

_snip_

That's a shame that's being implemented, because it'll really hamper quality of life...

I completely understand the difficulty of a long term durability fix. I also imagine staff and devs have got more important things on their plate. I just know the annoyance of dealing with this first hand and the community does too obviously.

That's why I perhaps now implore staff and devs to keep the duct tape exploit until the rp devs are able or willing to improve item durability. Otherwise the games just going to be more difficult to tolerate...

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54 minutes ago, CamoRP said:
  • Suppressor durablity - In real life, If you shoot 60 rounds all at one, in full-auto with your assault rifle, you're going to fry the suppressor. Same concept if you're shooting a LMG, you're going to heat the barrel until it explodes/melts. I am sure you've noticed suppressors last a lot longer when you shoot in single-fire mode.

That is simply not true on any point.

First of all, there are numerous videos out there of guns being shoot nonstop for hundreds of rounds before it melts the suppressor. Secondly, suppressors ingame do not last longer if you fire in semi auto. I'll shoot 1 mag from my FNX and my suppressor will go from Worn to Badly Damaged.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Rainey said:

That is simply not true on any point.

First of all, there are numerous videos out there of guns being shoot nonstop for hundreds of rounds before it melts the suppressor. Secondly, suppressors ingame do not last longer if you fire in semi auto. I'll shoot 1 mag from my FNX and my suppressor will go from Worn to Badly Damaged.

Now, I may have under-exaggerated the amount of rounds it takes to cause wear on a suppressor in real-life.

However, what you say regarding their durability in-game with your FNX45 handgun after shooting one bullet, is not true, or even with the sarcasm of the comment, even remotely resemble your statement. It takes about 1-2 magazines before it brings the condition down to "Damaged". 

The durability of suppressors in the game right now are fine. If anything perhaps they could be buffed up to last a bit longer, but frankly they're balanced well enough.

Edited by CamoRP

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Just now, CamoRP said:

Now, I may have under-exaggerated the amount of rounds it takes to cause wear on a suppressor.

However, what you say regarding their durability in-game is not true. The durability of suppressors in the game right now are fine. If anything perhaps they could be buffed up to last a bit longer, but frankly they're balanced well enough.

I fail to realize how 15 shots almost ruining a suppressor is "fine", especially given how rare they are. That's one tiny hoard of zombies and boom, my suppressor is gone. Fair? No.

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1 minute ago, Rainey said:

I fail to realize how 15 shots almost ruining a suppressor is "fine", especially given how rare they are. That's one tiny hoard of zombies and boom, my suppressor is gone. Fair? No.

Do you pray and spray by spamming FNX45 bullets at the infected randomly, or do you actually aim, and make your shots count? I think that's your problem right there.

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Just now, CamoRP said:

Do you pray and spray by spamming FNX45 bullets at the infected randomly, or do you actually aim, and make your shots count? I think that's your problem right there.

15 shots almost ruining a suppressor has nothing to do with spray and pray. 15 shots is 15 shots, it doesn't matter where they hit. I figured that much was obvious.

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