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Laroche

S1, South of Tisy Summer Camp - Invalid Kill

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Server and location: S1, South of Tisy Summer Camp

Approximate time and date of the incident (SERVER TIME):  South of Tisy Summer Camp, 2019-04-07, 03:15

Your in game name:  Jacob Nguyen

Names of allies involved: @Gaden - Brian Cahn

Name of suspect/s: Vitaliy Makarovich and his group

Friendly/Enemy vehicles involved (if any): N/A

Additional evidence? (video/screenshot): https://streamable.com/xosi5

Detailed description of the events: I went to Tisy Summer camp along with my friend to speak with The Doctors once there we met Vitaliy Makarovich where he began telling us how upset he was regarding Yaropolk leaking information regarding Pamyati being lead by the Russian SVR, he then began to say in chat that it was metagamed despite the matter being clarified by admins that it was not. After Vitaliy Makarovich left myself and Brian Cahn began asking the doctors for a neutral party to escort us to another location, a few minutes later we see several members of Vitaliy Makarovich's group approaching the gate (about 5 to 10 of them) and they demanded the gate to be opened so myself, Brian and several other individuals fled the scene from the rear. We ran away for some time hoping to lose the potentially hostile members in the woods but they ordered us to stop with a megaphone, which we did. We stopped and turned around and they began opening fire, myself and Brian took cover behind trees and I told him on IC chat to put his hands up. I then put my hands up and move from behind cover to show my intents were non-hostile and I was killed.

 

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Posted (edited)

Kase's POV: Was at the Tisy Summer camp and pulled aside by @-CML-NorWayy and told to assist in holding some men up in the camp, because of some "Shit talk" (or something along those lines). The OP And CO, ran out the back exit and began to sprint away, we made chase and they were initiated upon, from my perspective. I saw one of the two pulling their gun and turning around, I saw them pointing it at me first, so I took it as hostile and began to fire. (As I heard a bullet crack past me first).

One of the victims was put uncon and I res'd them, after that. We stood around and Norway did most of the talking, my character punched them for insulting the group surrounding them, After that I stepped back and the survivor continued to speak out of line. (When I punched them, they did not even react)

They continued to insult Norway who pointed a gun at them and said "If you continue to talk shit, I will blow your head off" at the victim (I didn't hear them as my game tabbed out because my game does sometimes) and when I tabbed back in. They were dead.

Edited by Kase

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.Grimms POV: was asked by  @-CML-NorWayy to help with capturing two people, I proceeded to follow the four as they jump out the back of the base. I initiated as I did not have rights from Norway as im not a part of his official group. After a short chase, they were told to stand still and to drop their weapons, they were given 3 seconds which is a reasonable amount of time to take your finger off of the W key. It took them roughly 8 seconds to come to a stop and then the OP and his friend opted to take cover behind a tree with their weapons still in hand. That clearly doesnt come off as complying with demands being made. The OP was killed for not complying and his friend was knocked uncon, he was revived and tied up, where he began to talk shit after being told to stop. He was told that if he talked back one more time, he would be killed. He said something to the effect of "go ahead do it" and was promptly put down for it. Which is a clear NVFL while being in a hostage situation.

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Posted (edited)

Brian's PoV: Everything is accurate from Laroche, same on my end, I never fired a shot back and I took cover behind a tree after the initial shot I do believe. 

As for the NVFL, affirm on that, I accepted that. I basically am shitfaced drunk, I didn't intend to get on DayZRP tonight, but I was called in to help in a potential situation and I had been drinking prior. So I basically accepted when I got knocked unconscious that we were filing the report, and I just wanted it to be over with. 

I accept the consequences for my actions.

EDIT* Both of us have suppressors

Edited by Gaden

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Diachi's PoV : Diachi was at the Tisy Summer Camp just hanging out, keeping watch for Dr. Hope, per her request, and he got pulled aside along with Kain by Vitaliy. He came to them asking for assistance since we were grouped with Ryker (Kase). He asked us in helping with capturing two people from the camp who were "talking shit". Since Diachi follows Kase's lead, Diachi agreed once he saw Kase joining him. Vitaliy and his group took us outside the walls of the camp to give us more information about who they were wanting to capture, stating something along the lines of 'the guy in a purple backpack and the guy in Gorka gear'. Kase agreed, along with Diachi, Grimm, and Kain. We went up to the gates of the camp, and we could hear people saying something about going out the back gate, so we rolled around to the back, and the chase began. We followed them for a couple minutes down into the woods, south of the camp. After yelling at them to stop running and turn around, either Vitaliy or one of his group members took out a megaphone, and told them to: Stop, Put your weapons on the ground, and put their hands in the air.  (Around now is when the OP's recording began). In the video, it takes roughly 8 seconds for them to stop, in which case they stopped behind a tree (I could still see him from where he was crouching) and still had their weapons out. (At 0:20 in the video, I can be seen on the left hand side behind a tree in some shrubs) I heard shots being thrown out before I shot. I think I hit both Brian and Jacob both once or twice with my CR-527. We saw both of them go down. One of them was unconscious, and the other one was dead. After someone revived and restrained the unconscious one, Vitaliy told him something along the lines of "Keep talking shit" which then the person said something back to him (I didn't catch what he said to him) and Vitaliy put one shot into his head. 

 @Laroche  and  @Gaden both took around 8 seconds to stop moving, neither put their weapons away, neither put their hands up (kind of after being shot at). @Gaden had NVFL, although he did admit that above.  

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Kain's POV:

Vitaliy approached Diachi and I about "taking some guys", and asked if me and Diachi were Ryker's 'Savages'. We agreed to help with capturing OP and his partner. 'Purple Backpack' and 'Gorka' were supposedly 'talking shit' about Vitaliy's group and how he doesn't take no shit. Walking out the gate we run a safe distance away and we rally up outside the walls and get briefed on the situation by Vitaliy and we all agree to take part in aiding the capture.

We approach the gate, I sweep right, already knowing there's a back gate, I hear someone ushering out the two individuals we're after as well as two extras and we begin chasing them. It wasnt a long chase until someone whips out a megaphone and tells the OP and Brian to throw down their weapons and surrender. As far as I saw, we got no compliance. They're then told they have 3 seconds to comply before being shot, and roughly 10 seconds pass where their weapons are out and they're behind a set of trees then there's shots. At this point I know what's going on, so I instantly just start watching the perimeter from a distance to make sure the boys are alright, then I look over and see Brian executed. We had a brief conversation with Vitaliy and parted ways within a minute.

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I would like to draw attention to/clarify some information. As seen in the video, we stopped nearly immediately after the person who initiated was done speaking so the whole "it took them 8 seconds to comply" is simply false. In addition to that, I myself only took cover after taking fire which is obviously a normal reaction, despite being shot at I attempted to comply regardless to avoid getting killed.

As you can see I never opened fire or made any threatening moves towards the group and according to @Gaden he never opened fire towards the group either. In my opinion, the fact that they are claiming we didn't immediately put our weapons away was a good enough reason to kill us is ruleplay. I myself didn't hear the "put your weapons down" part due to talking at the same time as seen in the video. The fact that we stopped and turned around without opening fire or being threatening is a good indicator that we were willing to comply with the group's demands.

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 Hit Logs:

Spoiler
03:21:23 | Player "Jacob Nguyen" [HP: 68.8707] hit by Player "Spencer Grimm" into Torso(14) for 26 damage (Bullet_45ACP) with USG-45 from 36.7758 meters 
03:21:24 | Player "Jacob Nguyen" [HP: 42.8707] hit by Player "Spencer Grimm" into Torso(24) for 26 damage (Bullet_45ACP) with USG-45 from 36.866 meters 
03:21:27 | Player "Brian Cahn" [HP: 3.78] hit by Player "Juan Lopez" into Torso(7) for 34 damage (Bullet_762x39) with KA-M from 56.5755 meters
03:21:27 | Player "Brian Cahn" [HP: 37.78] hit by Player "Juan Lopez" into Torso(7) for 34 damage (Bullet_762x39) with KA-M from 56.5755 meters 
03:21:27 | Player "Brian Cahn" [HP: 71.78] hit by Player "Juan Lopez" into RightLeg(6) for 34 damage (Bullet_762x39) with KA-M from 56.5755 meters 
03:21:27 | Player "Brian Cahn" [HP: 83] hit by Player "Michael Diachi" into Head(0) for 17 damage (Bullet_762x39) with CR-527 from 41.8773 meters 
03:21:28 | Player "Jacob Nguyen" (DEAD) [HP: 0] hit by Player "Vitaliy Makarovich" into Lungs(48) for 34 damage (Bullet_556x45) with M4-A1 from 45.0202 meters 
03:21:28 | Player "Jacob Nguyen" (DEAD) [HP: 0] hit by Player "Vitaliy Makarovich" into Torso(1) for 34 damage (Bullet_556x45) with M4-A1 from 45.0202 meters 
03:21:28 | Player "Jacob Nguyen" (DEAD) [HP: 0] hit by Player "Vitaliy Makarovich" into Torso(25) for 34 damage (Bullet_556x45) with M4-A1 from 45.0202 meters 
03:21:28 | Player "Jacob Nguyen" [HP: 20.6879] hit by Player "Vitaliy Makarovich" into LeftArm(29) for 34 damage (Bullet_556x45) with M4-A1 from 45.0202 meters 
03:21:28 | Player "Jacob Nguyen" [HP: 31.9079] hit by Player "Vitaliy Makarovich" into LeftArm(21) for 34 damage (Bullet_556x45) with M4-A1 from 45.0202 meters 
03:23:10 | Player "Brian Cahn" [HP: 5.0913] hit by Player "Kase Mcilwrath" into RightArm(31) for 15 damage (MeleeBrassKnuckles) with Brass Knuckles
03:23:18 | Player "Brian Cahn" (DEAD) [HP: 0] hit by Player "Vitaliy Makarovich" into Head(0) for 17 damage (Bullet_556x45) with M4-A1 from 1.70883 meters

 

Kill Logs:

Spoiler
03:21:28 | Player "Jacob Nguyen" (DEAD) killed by Player "Vitaliy Makarovich" with M4-A1 from 45.0202 meters 
03:23:18 | Player "Brian Cahn" (DEAD) killed by Player "Vitaliy Makarovich" with M4-A1 from 1.70883 meters  

 

Chat Logs:

Spoiler
02:54:18 | Chat("Vitaliy Makarovich"): *extends hand*
02:59:26 | Chat("Brian Cahn"): // Entire voice is lagging for me, take over for me
03:08:38 | Chat("Vitaliy Makarovich"): //Its metagamed
03:08:46 | Chat("Vitaliy Makarovich"): //I was the leader of the group
03:11:34 | Chat("Jacob Nguyen"): *Taps Brian's shoulder*
03:11:39 | Chat("Jacob Nguyen"): *Motions him to leave with him*
03:23:38 | Chat("Vitaliy Makarovich"): //someone record that
03:23:46 | Chat("Spencer Grimm"): //DIDNT GET
03:23:50 | Chat("Vitaliy Makarovich"): //then message me -CML-NorWayy

 

Connection Logs:

Spoiler
02:43:09 | Player "Jacob Nguyen" is connected 
-Dead-

02:55:21 | Player "Brian Cahn" is connected 
-Dead-

00:22:37 | Player "Spencer Grimm" is connected 
06:08:52 | Player "Spencer Grimm" has been disconnected

00:33:55 | Player "Vitaliy Makarovich" is connected 
06:21:53 | Player "Vitaliy Makarovich" has been disconnected

00:24:39 | Player "Michael Diachi" is connected 
06:18:43 | Player "Michael Diachi" has been disconnected

02:09:51 | Player "Juan Lopez" is connected 
03:46:27 | Player "Juan Lopez" has been disconnected
03:46:56 | Player "Juan Lopez" is connected 
05:22:24 | Player "Juan Lopez" has been disconnected

02:05:21 | Player "Kase Mcilwrath" is connected
04:42:12 | Player "Kase Mcilwrath" has been disconnected

01:19:30 | Player "Kain Walkens" is connected 
05:21:02 | Player "Kain Walkens" has been disconnected

 

Calling in:

@Laroche - Jacob Nguyen | POSTED

@Gaden - Brian Cahn | POSTED

@HeyItsGrimm - Spencer Grimm | POSTED

@-CML-NorWayy - Vitaliy Makarovich | POSTED

@AtKnite - Michael Diachi | POSTED

@SeversonRP - Juan Lopez | POSTED

@Kase - Kase Mcilwrath | POSTED

@stoney_ - Kain Walkens | POSTED

For their full detailed POV. Along with any other evidence that they may have of this situation. Please also list all of your allies that were involved. 

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Vitaliy POV: Was chillin in Tisy summer with the boys for around 30-40 minutes when some USMC guys cropped up and started talking shit on Pamyati/24th street, I rallied the boys up IC and decided we were gonna try and take the guys hostage and teach them a bit of a lesson. They figured out what was about to go down so they hopped out the camp headed south. We gave chase and when I realized they were gonna out run us and that there were two people with them that were uninvolved I pulled out the megaphone and said "RAVEN SHIELD OPERATORS, THIS DOES NOT CONCERN YOU. PLEASE LEAVE THEY AREA AND YOU WILL NOT BE HARMED." immediately following this they 2 Raven Shield guys left the area and didn't return. I said over VOIP to the boys here we go make sure you tell them to put there hands up as well, the screamed a directed initiation, calling out their names as they identified themselves from just out of Voice range, delivered my demands which were stop and drop their weapons. Following a 8-10 second wait, in which they didn't follow either demand, we opened fire. The first guy La Roche, hid behind a tree and for the first moment had his weapon out and was up until the moment he realized he was literally seconds from death was not going to comply. His friend up until being knocked uncon, was crouched behind a tree weapon draw and ready to engage. La Roche attempted to tell his friend to raise his hands and he didn't, La Roche then sprinted out from behind the tree and did the Magificent emote which from a distance looks like someone reloading a weapon. Since I knew he had a suppressed UMP and I heard a great deal of gunfire lined up a shot as soon as he pulled away from the tree. I fired one round and then my screen froze. Unfortunately I lagged at the worst time humanly possible and it connected and hit him as he put his hand up. It should be noted here that this would not have happened if they had simply followed my initial demands, rather than wait for a full 10 seconds, then another 7 seconds before deciding that then and only then that they wanted to surrender.

Counter Report for NVFL: Although I do not have video evidence, the other man @Gadenclearly displayed NVFL after he was knocked unconscious I had the men revive him so we could interrogate him. After he regained consciousness I gave him the schpiele  "No shit talking, Tell the Truth and don't be a fucking idiot and you'll live. If you don't I'll kill you." Instead he stands up and looks at me and says "How about you just fucking kill me." I paused in disbelief and he repeated "Do it already" so I killed him and requested that anyone who could record. 

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I would like to add BadRP to the report: Clearly, this was done out of OOC spite towards my friend @crearbin which Norway claims he metagamed information that pretty much destroyed his group Pamyati. This was handled by admins a while ago and deemed that it was in fact not metagamed but Norway still holds a grudge OOCly towards @crearbin . This can be confirmed by him typing in OOC saying "Its metagamed" and "I was the leader of the group".  When he learned who I was (A former Pamyati member who left due to disagreement towards the quality of their RP) and that I knew @crearbin's location he immediately gathered a large group to capture us. Norway claims that he intended to gather information by capturing us but the fact that he killed me whilst I was surrendering and then proceeded to execute @Gaden because he said he should shoot him to me proves what the true intent was here. Norway's group did make threats on their discord in the past that they would find us in game and KOS us or interrogate us for 6 hours straight.

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I sure do, and this is only what I managed to get my hands on because there was way more than that.

fuck4.PNG

oreally2.JPG

oreally.JPG

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First, Sylva was permanently banned from the community by that time.

Second, He did meta however, I decided not to report.

Third timelapse and all of the other messages are in reference to this picture linked below, in which all members of Pamyati including militiamen were subject to this agreement with terms listed below. Crearbin's character was never privy to IC radio transmissions between us and or IC FSB handler Major. Nor was he privy to any information connecting us to the Russian government.

Perma death agreement.png

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Ivan's POV: I was operating deep undercover and didn't realize that I was next to a fellow member of our group,  Norway, or IG Vitaliy. After sitting and listening to the convo between him and the OP, I made myself known to him and he told me we were going to take the guys he was talking to. After he got the boys ready, we followed them out of the camp and initiated on them. After they heard the initiation, they sat there and did nothing but take cover behind the trees, with what looked to be a weapon out. At this point we shot as they clearly didn't have any intention to comply. After this we had killed one in the initial volley of rounds, the other was patched up, handcuffed, and was then going to be taken for questioning. As stated above norway gave him the normal tell the truth and you will live, to which he replied, "How bout you just fucking kill me," Norway then, as he insisted, killed him.

Also to put down the idea you have of "BadRP", you were clearly talking shit right in front of him. I was sitting there and listening. Also your friend wouldn't have been killed if he didn't NVFL, by most literally yelling he wanted to be shot.

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Posting with the permission of @RandyRP


This is the final thing I will say in regards to my NVFL situation. 

Everyone continues to reiterate that it happened but I've already acknowledged it, but I will attempt to clear it up further. 

I don't care that I died, @Laroche is the reporter, I was simply an ally, there is one report here. The kill against Laroche was not valid, my kill was valid. 

I NVFL'd because I wanted to PK my character and saw this as a perfect chance to do so, as all of the other Cahn family line is no longer around, so my story doesn't really make sense anymore. 

While I realize this doesn't justify my actions and that my RP was subpar due to it, you have to realize that you gentleman's RP was just as subpar. Sure, it's fun for you to get a large group together and chase people around in the woods, frankly it was exciting for us too, but it wasn't fun like it was for you. 

You let your bias control that roleplay and it suffered because of it. 

 

Anyways, I hope this clears stuff up, I won't say anything more and I meant no disrespect to anyone, this is just my opinion.

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, -CML-NorWayy said:

First, Sylva was permanently banned from the community by that time.

Second, He did meta however, I decided not to report.

Third timelapse and all of the other messages are in reference to this picture linked below, in which all members of Pamyati including militiamen were subject to this agreement with terms listed below. Crearbin's character was never privy to IC radio transmissions between us and or IC FSB handler Major. Nor was he privy to any information connecting us to the Russian government.

Perma death agreement.png

 

None of us had access to such an agreement nor did we sign one. He absolutely did not metagame and you need to stop claiming as such and doing things in-game out of OOC spite. CrearBin and myself were made aware that the group was an SVR operation literally 5 minutes after meeting Sylva the first time in-game because he spilled the beans. We also have additional evidence that have been provided to admins where slip ups happened. This is why the radio thread is still up and was not removed when you attempted to report it.

Anyway, this is kinda going off topic here. I'll stop replying unless asked by an admin or other pertinent information comes up.

Edited by Laroche

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This will be my final post aswell until I am needed. I still don't understand how you are mad about talking shit and then getting hit. I was standing there listening to you 1, not only talk shit about the 24th, but also claim or reveal information who the charecter you were speaking too probaly didnt want to get out, whether it was meta-gamed or not. And to touch on why you were shot, its not that hard to decided what you want to do. You dilly dallied and hid behind trees, so you got dropped.

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The video clearly shows me standing still and only taking cover after taking fire. I also didnt really talk shit, was just pointing out facts but I suppose that depends on your perspective.

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Verdict:

@-CML-NorWayy - Invalid Kill (Roleplayed) | Guilty

@Gaden - NVFL | Guilty

Explanation:

To shortly summarize the situation. @Laroche and @Gaden are at Tisy Summer camp, when they they have some roleplay with @-CML-NorWayy and a few others. @-CML-NorWayy leaves and later come back trying to get back in the compound. This is when @Laroche and @Gaden flee out the back, they are trying to loose them in the woods when they are initiated on with a megaphone. While trying to figure out what they are going to do, they start to get shot at. Killing @Laroche and knocking out @Gaden who is later killed during the situation. 

Moving onto the rulebreaks here that are in question. The first one being Invalid Kill (Roleplayed), the kill on @Laroche is considered invalid because when he was shot and killed his hand was up and his rifle was on his back. He was complying and was not a threat to @-CML-NorWayy and his allies. Next we will move onto the No Value for Life. @Gaden will be found guilty of NVFL since in his post he admits to NVFL.

The rules that support this verdict:

  • 3.2 Your character must behave realistically and appropriately to the different situations you participate in, keeping the current world situation and context of post-apocalyptic world in mind. Do not act in a way that indicates no value for your characters life and survival. For example, attempting to kill people when heavily outnumbered, excessively talking back or insulting someone when taken hostage, or knowingly running into an area of active hostile engagement when not involved in the fight. Characters found guilty of breaking this rule will be permanently marked as dead.
  • 4.2 When your life is at risk or you are subjected to a hostile action by other players you are allowed to defend yourself. This is granted by two different "kill rights" that you can gain based on circumstances of the situation like which side caused the hostile situation and which side you are on.
  • 4.6 If you successfully capture a player through a hostile action and then take him into your custody, he is now considered your hostage. You must do everything in your power to keep your hostages alive and in a relatively good health. That includes protecting them from external threats like zombies and leaving them with a realistic chance of survival when they are released. A character that is taken hostage may be executed once for a hostile incident that happened in the past where the hostage was personally responsible for, or participated in a death of your ally. In any other circumstances, hostages may only be executed in the following scenarios:
    • Hostages do not comply with your demands after repeated requests or try to escape.
    • Hostages pose a direct threat to you or your group, for example by picking up a weapon when not allowed to.
    • Hostages do not value their life, for example they repeatedly talk back or insult you despite being told to stop.

Before I close out I would like to make a few suggestions. When it comes to using Kill Rights and Defense Rights please make sure it makes sense and that the ones who are going to be shot at are not complying or are a threat. If they are not a threat it is best to not always default to shooting and trying to kill them. Next, when you are a hostage please make sure that you are valuing your characters life and that you are behaving realistically. 

Outcome:

@-CML-NorWayy - Invalid Kill (Roleplayed) | Guilty - 3  Day Ban & 10 Warning Points

@Gaden - NVFL | Guilty - 3 Day Ban & 10 Warning Points | Character PKed

Signed by: @BrianM, @Onyx, & @RandyRP, w/ Notes

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