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Kattica

So PK for NVFL?

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Posted (edited)

Just kinda wanted other opinions on this cause a recent report/ban appeal made me realize this was in the rules. 

Does anyone else think the PK for NVFL is... Kinda harsh? 

NVFL has always been on the lower tier of points you can receive in RP scenarios. It just seems kinda funny to attach such a harsh punishment along with it. 

I could see it for aggravated punishments totally. For those who have broke a series of rules, or have made a dire rule break. But... NVFL? I dunno. It just kinda sits weird with me given the fact that it's such a minor infraction. 

Edited by MRS Bradtica

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Nah not at all, if the NVFL is your choice. If you're subjected to some unreasonable bullshit, then NVFL shouldn't be applied. 

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I honestly preferred and supported that it would only have been used in special circumstances, but it appears since it's written in stone now, that it's automatic. Which I do not like.

I feel like this variation of NVFL punishment will do more harm than good. 

The primary victims of NVFL rulebreaks are;

  1. New players who don't know any better, and still taking the adjustment to learning how to play on a roleplay server.
  2. Players who have disposible characters to use for their HostileRP or PvP. Who could give a shit less if their character is PKed.

However, this variation of the rules, makes me think more than twice, not twice, MORE than twice, before choosing not to comply in a hostile situation. Because I am afraid I will lose my 1000+ hour character I have dedicated my time developing the last two years. Which honestly places a burden on me to not even bother getting involved in PvP, as I am concerned staff members will be too hasty to validate a NVFL report claim and kill my character off. 

Thank god for the appeals process at least...

 

 

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It's a strange addition to the rules.

I get it and I don't.

I agree with a lot of what Camo said.  Perhaps the rule should be changed for offenders who have had the rule break more than a couple of times, or if the situation is aggravated enough, but NVFL is one of the rules that could be seen as a mistake on occasion.  For a one time offender to get a character erased, that's pretty harsh in my opinion.

 

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, MRS Bradtica said:

Does anyone else think the PK for NVFL is... Kinda harsh?

NO... people feel protected by rules and systems... they talk back and do other shit while there is real threat on their life. If they NVFL then PK is legit imo.

If it is valid demands and hostage shows NVFL - PK is all good.

Edited by Shanoby

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3 minutes ago, Shanoby said:

NO... people feel protected by rules and systems... they talk back and do other shit while there is real threat on their life. If they NVFL then PK is legit imo.

If it is valid demands and hostage shows NVFL - PK is all good.

Agreed, I wouldn't say it's harsh. I support the concept. However, I believe a forced PK should only be applied under special circumstances, or repeat offenders of NVFL.

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Posted (edited)

The rule is good but that verdict is not solid, stripping someone naked has always been Bad RP so it should stay as such PKing someone for not doing that could be similar to someone refusing IC to suck your dick or anything above during a hostage situation, it sets a weird standard that should not exist.

Edited by Eagle

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, MRS Bradtica said:

Just kinda wanted other opinions on this cause a recent report/ban appeal made me realize this was in the rules. 

Does anyone else think the PK for NVFL is... Kinda harsh? 

NVFL has always been on the lower tier of points you can receive in RP scenarios. It just seems kinda funny to attach such a harsh punishment along with it. 

I could see it for aggravated punishments totally. For those who have broke a series of rules, or have made a dire rule break. But... NVFL? I dunno. It just kinda sits weird with me given the fact that it's such a minor infraction. 

 

I agree with the punishment in situations where true NVFL is shown. Its a good way for people to stop being trolly and keep serious in characters.

 

However, the ruling that you are referencing was just flat out bad. He shouldn't have been given an NVFL punishment for refusing a request that earned someone else a BadRP guilty verdict. While taking your pants off isn't a rule break obviously, what would happen if the person involved was ordered to kill another hostage, and then didn't comply? The example Eagle gave above is another. Or what if they ordered you to jump off a building. Its a bad precedent that hostages get NVFL'd for unreasonable requests.

 

Edit: Appeal went through and punishment was removed so ignore the majority of what I said above.

Edited by Rover
Addition

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I think PK for a NVFL should be a thing BUT i feel it has to be  done Case by case not for everyone

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8 minutes ago, Samti said:

I think PK for a NVFL should be a thing BUT i feel it has to be  done Case by case not for everyone

I can not stretch how important this is.

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I think, personally, this is one of the greatest rule additions to DayZRP ever.  Anyone who has played here long enough knows what is and what isn't reasonable demands.  At this point, if they continue to try and be big 'ol billy badass against reasonable demands because of 'die die never comply', then they are going to get a big ol' slap of fuck you to their character.  I think people will find out that there is a lot to gain from complying to certain situations now, and that roleplay on the hostile side is going to progress in a much cleaner way.  At least, that's what should happen.

People have not been giving a shit about their character for the longest of times.  It's old.  This gives you a very good reason to care about your character.  Less people throwing in the sacrificial lamb to drop the initiation, more carefully planned out hostilities so that it doesn't appear that you aren't giving a shit about your character.  Change nothing about this new rule addition.  Let people adapt to giving a shit.

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2 hours ago, Elmo said:

Nah not at all, if the NVFL is your choice. If you're subjected to some unreasonable bullshit, then NVFL shouldn't be applied. 

Yeah... this. 6 dudes initiate on you why you’re alone and you try to take them on with 0 chance of survival, that’s NVFL. 

 

But say- ‘get naked or I will kill you’ is an unreasonable demand- unless there’s some RP reason behind it besides wanting the gear from your pants. A simple *pats down for weapons and radio* will suffice for that excuse of ‘oh but what if he has a gun’. 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Cid said:

I think, personally, this is one of the greatest rule additions to DayZRP ever.  Anyone who has played here long enough knows what is and what isn't reasonable demands.  At this point, if they continue to try and be big 'ol billy badass against reasonable demands because of 'die die never comply', then they are going to get a big ol' slap of fuck you to their character.  I think people will find out that there is a lot to gain from complying to certain situations now, and that roleplay on the hostile side is going to progress in a much cleaner way.  At least, that's what should happen.

People have not been giving a shit about their character for the longest of times.  It's old.  This gives you a very good reason to care about your character.  Less people throwing in the sacrificial lamb to drop the initiation, more carefully planned out hostilities so that it doesn't appear that you aren't giving a shit about your character.  Change nothing about this new rule addition.  Let people adapt to giving a shit.

"Change nothing"... C'mon Cid. There are always shades of grey. 

And I guess that's kind of the thing I wanted people to discuss. Should it be a clean across the board? Or a case by case basis?

Edited by MRS Bradtica

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1 minute ago, MRS Bradtica said:

"Change nothing"... C'mon Cid. There are always shades of grey. 

And I guess that's kind of the thing I wanted people to discuss. Should it be a clean across the board? Or a case by case basis?

From my experience, there is not a SINGLE rule that is concrete, sadly. The same report can be taken by a GM, and get different verdict than another GM would establish. It’s fucking retarded, so if a report stems from it, just roll your dice and pray.

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Just now, MRS Bradtica said:

"Change nothing"... C'mon Cid. There are always shades of grey. 

And I guess that's kind of the thing I wanted people to discuss. Should it be a clean across the board discuss? Or a case by case basis?

We'd be changing A LOT of rules if we simply looked at the shades of grey.  Plenty of rules have been abused and plenty of rules will continue to be abused in the future.  Focus on the grey and we might as well not have rules.

Put me in the boat of clean across the board.  You choose to stupidly give up your life then well, play stupid games and win stupid prizes, imo.

 

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I think people should be required to PK characters more often to progress stories. Which I know a lot of people don’t agree with...

Anyways I think it should stay... Just don’t NVFL 👍🏼

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Yeah PK's for NVFL should stay. It's really easy to know if it would be NVFL to not give in to demands since you would see how many people are initiating on you. Having to PK for NVFL is a good solution to the problem and i'm pretty sure NVFL reports have gone down since it was instituted.  

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I belive the bar for NVFL should be raises, cause plenty of times you could try and attack a group of 3 people but If you die its NVFL but if one less it woundlt be. Feels like it just brings more and more power to bug groups. 

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As someone who has PKed a character to progress a story, I can tell you it has it's place in role-play. But PKing over NVFL just doesn't sit well for me.

I've just never been a fan of rule forced PKs, I feel as though it's up to the one who plays the character when they want to PK. Having a rule enforced PK just puts off members to keep playing since they lost their favourite character.

I can understand why this rule is being enforced, but I'm just not a fan of it.

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No individual character should take presidency over the immersive world. Not valuing your life is not a minor taboo as people paint it, it's an immersion breaking RP sabotage, a very selfish approach to any situation which taints the integrity of the immersive world and wastes the time of those you are RP'ing with. I am not speaking of the bullshit situation Hellspawn was caught in, I am speaking of real NVFL, when someone purposely tries to get killed to get out of a hostage situation, where someone shit talks with a shotgun literally to their head despite knowing full well their hostage taker will kill them, where something throws themselves off a roof for the sake of being a meme. The only saving grace in these moments is the FINALITY of death.... so yeah, I am in full support of this.

People put effort into their characters yes, but NVFL is a CHOICE.

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I think NVFL should be even harsher punishment. I have watch people abuse NVFL almost daily. If you dont value your characters life than you should be punished simple as that.

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Honestly, it helps people to become more immerged in what fearing for your life and valuing it is. If you built up this massive story, of course you're going to value your characters life more. It should be a natural response. NVFL basically says it all about the PK. If you don't value it, then you're dead. Simple as that.

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If you don't wanna get PK'D, Comply. Simple as that to be honest.

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Posted (edited)

I think it falls under whether the staff are willing to look at each case individually rather than coming up with far reaching solutions which often cause these issues, where people think it's unfair and whatnot.

Obviously a case-by-case analysis would be the best way to go about it. If it's aggravated (i.e. followed by trolling, RDM, Fail/BadRP, etc.), then clearly the person doesn't care enough about RP. If it's a new guy who just got around to RPing or someone who just didn't quite catch it, a permanent punishment isn't warranted IMO. 

EDIT: A (grim but somewhat relevant) comparison could be to the IRL death punishment. Having it "to scare people from breaking rules" doesn't statistically work, and rather gives more trouble for the government to deal with. Really grim, now that I think of it, but you get what I mean.

Edited by Angel

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I feel that if it's a pretty clear cut case of NVFL then it should be a Pk. 

I get not wanting New players to get wrecked but if they don't understand the rules it's on them honestly. 

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