Jump to content
Server time: 2019-04-20, 07:20
The Nikitin Prodejna - Trade Post Event
TOMORROW | 2019-04-21 17:00:00 (server time) | Starts in 1 day, 9 hours, 39 minutes | Chernogorsk Docks | Peaceful
YNW Law

What's the Incentive?

Recommended Posts

No more Beanz but yes I entirely agree. As someone that's on final right now on amnesty, definitely doesn't make me feel any better about being good on the forums, in game and active on both. Could just be a "lol no" regardless of what I do. Dunno. 

Share this post


Link to post

Haha yeah it's bullshit.

Never warned, never cautioned, so he was never given the impression he was fucking up.

Apparently the amount of reports he was involved in was an issue for the staff team. If that's the case then I am at a loss for words. Being involved, but not breaking a rule, has apparently caused him to not be taken off final.

 

Nice.

Share this post


Link to post

I would be nice if the amnesty process switches from 1 appeal per 3 months to 1 appeal per 1 month if your first amnesty is denied. If you manage to go 3 months without getting any points or using your 1 caution you are obviously not doing anything wrong. Even if you are in a lot of reports that doesn't mean anything since you'd get points (and get banned) if you actually did anything wrong 

Share this post


Link to post

I don't have the time nor the care to go through all of Dusty's posts in the last little bit since his amnesty, so understand I'm simply commenting on what was posted in the verdict.

One can still not break any rules, yet have an attitude problem.  It's not hard to see snark and sass in a comment, and if the staff feels like he was still on that verge, so be it.  Perhaps he should have less attitude in his posts?  There really isn't much more to say than that.  If the staff really had that much of a problem, perhaps they should have talked with him.  No need to blow his caution over something that wasn't actually a rule break, so I can understand that not happening.  Though at the same time, I also understand trying to leave the amnesty program on something that you have to overcome yourself.  If you are leading someone in the right direction, as the staff, you are lining them up for easy success.  Amnesty isn't exactly here to guarantee you get off of it, it's here to make sure you yourself change.

As someone who has seen Dusty's posts from the past, there were plenty of situations where I have seen him come off as passive-aggressive.  If his posts are still like this, I can understand why the staff team would be leary in letting him off amnesty based on that aspect alone.  Not breaking rules isn't always good enough.

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Cid said:

don't have the time nor the care to go through all of Dusty's posts in the last little bit since his amnesty, so understand I'm simply commenting on what was posted in the verdict.

good thing i had the time and the care do to it, and can say that it was unwarranted.

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Impostor 2 said:

good thing i had the time and the care do to it, and can say that it was unwarranted.

Well, that makes one person.  Still not assed to do it, and even if I had a change of heart on that one and I agreed my opinion and your opinion doesn't mean shit in the grand scheme of things.  At least, not in this situation.

If he is dissatisfied with his appeal he can take it to Rolle or even Jim, and if they don't feel any differently there really isn't much more that can be done.

Share this post


Link to post

I don't know what they want from me man. They only focus on about 3 posts out of the ~211 posts I've made since being back. Those 3 posts were me basically telling someone not be elitist and not to flame others and then freak out when they get the same thing back. They ignore the massive majority of my posts and instead cherrypick a few posts that fits their narrative. If my name wasn't attached to the appeal, it would have been accepted, no doubt in my mind about it.

They're scared I'm going to become toxic when I'm taken off final, and used that as a reason to deny it. It's as if they are pre-empitvely punishing me for something I haven't done.

I just want to be treated as fairly as everyone else in the community and not have my time wasted.

Share this post


Link to post

I don't know, @DrMax what posts specifically were the reason for the denial. Because I dont feel like going through the past 3 months of his posts. 

Share this post


Link to post
8 minutes ago, Dusty said:

I don't know what they want from me man. They only focus on about 3 posts out of the ~211 posts I've made since being back. Those 3 posts were me basically telling someone not be elitist and not to flame others and then freak out when they get the same thing back. They ignore the massive majority of my posts and instead cherrypick a few posts that fits their narrative. If my name wasn't attached to the appeal, it would have been accepted, no doubt in my mind about it.

They're scared I'm going to become toxic when I'm taken off final, and used that as a reason to deny it. It's as if they are pre-empitvely punishing me for something I haven't done.

I just want to be treated as fairly as everyone else in the community and not have my time wasted.

I simply don't get that mentality, and that might just be me because I feel there are far worse (thinking of before amnesty) individuals that got their appeal accepted compared to you.

I don't know what else to say.  If you truly want to be here, I think you'll just keep on trucking and trying.  I don't think you are trying to get off of final simply because for the sake of being off of final.  So just keep on keeping on, I suppose.  I truly want to see you get off of your amnesty final.

Share this post


Link to post

I wish there'd been some evidence linked in that appeal as reason for denial. Making a load of assertions and then denying somebody's appeal based on that, without backing it up with screenshot/video proof of your misgivings, is just bad practice as a staff member.

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Cid said:

I don't think you are trying to get off of final simply because for the sake of being off of final.

Ahhhh you've never been on final 😉

 

It really is purely for the sake of being off final. Being able to not triple check every single thing you do is a beautiful thing.

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Elmo said:

I wish there'd been some evidence linked in that appeal as reason for denial. Making a load of assertions and then denying somebody's appeal based on that, without backing it up with screenshot/video proof of your misgivings, is just bad practice as a staff member.

I was told in a discord PM that I was denied because they don't believe my attitude has changed, and also based on how I acted in reports and how many times I've been involved in reports. However, there were literally no specific posts or specific situations they could point to without me first bringing up a few posts that I thought they may have been talking about.

There were also no specific reports that could be linked to me or referenced to when I asked about how I acted in reports, and no specific behavior that they could point out, just that they didn't like how I acted in reports. Also, the fact that I'm involved in a certain amount of reports means nothing. If you're in a consistently active true-banditry group, then everyone knows reports are bound to happen, whether they're valid or not. Being called in doesn't equal guilt, and it's ridiculous that this is even a reason they used against me, especially when others who have been in more reports than myself have been accepted.

If I'm not told what or where exactly I did something wrong, then how do I know what I need to improve upon? I'm obviously pretty frustrated with how it was handled and so are others.

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)

Very odd considering even I believe Dusty’s attitude and behavior has changed significantly. He hasn’t been in any bad verdict reports. He hasn’t flamed anyone on the forums. He’s only helped people and given good feedback and criticism. 

Edited by Zero

Share this post


Link to post

Usually I'd be the first to say something if someone deserved it, but if you've been clean for months on end, monitored yourself, been careful and all of that, because lets face it sometimes accidents happen, misunderstandings and they can lead to reports/points or whatever.... then they deserve that shot. I've never been on final or even gotten a point when in all honesty I'll admit there's been times I probably should have for whatever reason. I may not know what it feels like, but I imagine living with a noose constantly above your head is unsettling and kinda hard. It's just shitty... everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt, especially if they burst ass for it. 

Show a bit of class and give the guy a shot. If you tell someone to do something for this degree of time to get this thing given to them, they do it and then you DON'T give it to them... you look like shit, that's the truth of it. It's dishonest and questionable to all reading it. It either is or it isn't.

Share this post


Link to post
33 minutes ago, Dusty said:

-snip-

Preaching to the choir here my guy, the goal of a verdict should be to punish but also to help people learn from their mistakes. Lackluster verdicts results in repeated mistakes.

Share this post


Link to post

You don't have to flame someone or be banned from a report to get a final warning appeal denied. As said in the appeal and in the PM you were denied because of your attitude in general. I will go into more detail now since I have the time. Just because you didn't get points for certain posts does it mean that it is acceptable to do it. You posted on a group thread @'ing someone who left feedback. You were not in the group and were simply calling someone out on the thread to stir the pot. You were not involved at all and there was no need for you to post on that thread. You've also told someone that their attitude is toxic. Again, just because you did not get points for saying these things does it mean that you can just do it. You also were pretty hostile to a guy in a Community discussion where you told him "To come up with your own opinion". Now why is it that you would shut down someone opinion. That is a key rule on our server.

The admins have the right to deny an appeal. Just because you have a clean warning history since being back and being active in game does it mean you will just get accepted. If the admins do not think you're ready to come off final warning, then you wont. Simple as that. We do not think you're ready yet, hence the denial. You said in a PM that we should just take you off then add you back on if you mess up again. That's not how it works. We don't take someone off final to put them back on it again. As said above by someone, if you think that the admins are doing something wrong, PM Rolle or Jim. 

You just need to work on how you do things and say things. Don't get involved in random group threads to try and stir the pot and cause more drama, don't shut peoples ideas up and don't be rude to people calling their attitude toxic. You are active in game as well as on the forums which is good. So keep that part up and work on improving on what I said above. 

Share this post


Link to post
10 hours ago, Dan said:

Ahhhh you've never been on final 😉

 

It really is purely for the sake of being off final. Being able to not triple check every single thing you do is a beautiful thing.

No, I have not been on final, and I don't think that I will ever do anything to get myself on final, and my philosophy will always be that you probably shouldn't have done shit to get you there in the first place.  The people on final earned that themselves.  I'm sure not having to triple check everything that you do is pretty nice, but in the end, it was his actions that ultimately caused his downfall.  Besides, there are people in this community that have always played by triple-checking what they do.  If that is the case they are simply doing this whole thing wrong.

When I say it's not just for the sake of being of final, I mean that I don't think he is trying to be here just to get off final and peace out.  I'd imagine Dusty wants to be here to continue to play and participate in the community after he gets off final.  In the end, if he simply resorts back to his "old ways" after he gets off final they'll just put him right back on final or send him to the shadowrealm anyways.  I don't think that is his goal, is what I'm trying to get at.

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, DrMax said:

You don't have to flame someone or be banned from a report to get a final warning appeal denied. As said in the appeal and in the PM you were denied because of your attitude in general. I will go into more detail now since I have the time. Just because you didn't get points for certain posts does it mean that it is acceptable to do it. You posted on a group thread @'ing someone who left feedback. You were not in the group and were simply calling someone out on the thread to stir the pot. You were not involved at all and there was no need for you to post on that thread. You've also told someone that their attitude is toxic. Again, just because you did not get points for saying these things does it mean that you can just do it. You also were pretty hostile to a guy in a Community discussion where you told him "To come up with your own opinion". Now why is it that you would shut down someone opinion. That is a key rule on our server.

The admins have the right to deny an appeal. Just because you have a clean warning history since being back and being active in game does it mean you will just get accepted. If the admins do not think you're ready to come off final warning, then you wont. Simple as that. We do not think you're ready yet, hence the denial. You said in a PM that we should just take you off then add you back on if you mess up again. That's not how it works. We don't take someone off final to put them back on it again. As said above by someone, if you think that the admins are doing something wrong, PM Rolle or Jim. 

You just need to work on how you do things and say things. Don't get involved in random group threads to try and stir the pot and cause more drama, don't shut peoples ideas up and don't be rude to people calling their attitude toxic. You are active in game as well as on the forums which is good. So keep that part up and work on improving on what I said above. 

I get where you're coming from, but I'd not be surprised if Dusty was kept on Final with the hope that he eventually fucks up, as everyone does, and gets perm'ed again because him originally getting banned left a sour taste in everyone's mouths- something similar to Sirrore was, who if I am not mistaken was on Final for like a whole year and some change before he posted I believe," Issa Knife," in a status update (?- maybe getting my events mixed up) and was subsequently perm'ed for it. In that time he, I believe, appealed 3-4 times for his Final and each was /denied for the similar thing.

Perhaps in your eyes Dusty's attitude wasn't adequate, but reading your closing sentence, this intrigues me greatly: b2ac3ea6a26c44fedd69b355b22e330b.png. Who are the other signatures? I'm not sure how the flow of things goes for Appeals anymore, but as I recall all people responsible with formulating a verdict must display their names in the end-notes. I'm interested to see the other names (GM-Admins, people who can actually verdict the Appeals) so perhaps we, as Dusty's friends, can help look out for him. I personally want nothing but the best for my friends, and I understand people on Final had a disappointing past but that doesn't mean any toxicity will remain. He has been walking a straight line since December with his head high and shoulders squared away, aside from some potential rebuttals given for him defending his friends from people either trying to flamebait him, or twisting the story in feedback to convey a different image of his friends or group. There is a bias coming from me as I am his friend, but I am hoping the administrative team can reconsider.

Share this post


Link to post

Idk man they could have added some evidence

I dont see a reason why they would deny him probley becose who he is 

Maybe hes gonna need to be on final for 9 months like @Puncture

Share this post


Link to post

Yea, kinda puts staff in a really bad light. I’m not putting him on blast, because it’s good his got accepted and he has cool pistols, but @YungBrandonRP got in quite a few reports, 1 of which he would’ve normally been perm’d from and 1 where he was perm’d until he was allowed back in a few days later. I get “case by case” but some precedence needs to be followed.

Share this post


Link to post
28 minutes ago, Hollows said:

I get where you're coming from, but I'd not be surprised if Dusty was kept on Final with the hope that he eventually fucks up, as everyone does, and gets perm'ed again because him originally getting banned left a sour taste in everyone's mouths- something similar to Sirrore was, who if I am not mistaken was on Final for like a whole year and some change before he posted I believe," Issa Knife," in a status update (?- maybe getting my events mixed up) and was subsequently perm'ed for it. In that time he, I believe, appealed 3-4 times for his Final and each was /denied for the similar thing.

Perhaps in your eyes Dusty's attitude wasn't adequate, but reading your closing sentence, this intrigues me greatly: b2ac3ea6a26c44fedd69b355b22e330b.png. Who are the other signatures? I'm not sure how the flow of things goes for Appeals anymore, but as I recall all people responsible with formulating a verdict must display their names in the end-notes. I'm interested to see the other names (GM-Admins, people who can actually verdict the Appeals) so perhaps we, as Dusty's friends, can help look out for him. I personally want nothing but the best for my friends, and I understand people on Final had a disappointing past but that doesn't mean any toxicity will remain. He has been walking a straight line since December with his head high and shoulders squared away, aside from some potential rebuttals given for him defending his friends from people either trying to flamebait him, or twisting the story in feedback to convey a different image of his friends or group. There is a bias coming from me as I am his friend, but I am hoping the administrative team can reconsider.

I’m not going to be revealing what person said what. The staff will review his appeal again when he posts it again in 3 months. 

Share this post


Link to post

Dusty just needs some bigger pockets to get put off final I guess 🤷🏻‍♀️

Share this post


Link to post
19 hours ago, Impostor 2 said:

The whole amnesty process seems very flawed and run in a dishonest way to me.

It's a biased and generally unfair process, perhaps that's what you mean? It doesn't work on democratic or bias-preventing principles like all other staff decisions that affect regular, non-banned members of the community.

 

19 hours ago, Impostor 2 said:

because from where i'm standing, it just seems like you said no because you didn't want to say yes, and not much else.

You're absolutely right. I can say no because I simply don't want to say yes when it comes to amnesty and finals. I do that sometimes, but most of the time there's other, more tangible reasons.

I can counter this statement though, with something very similar that puts you in the hot seat:

"From where i'm standing, it just seems like you created this thread complaining about Dustys final rejection because you are his friend, and not much else. I didn't see any threads when other finals were denied on similar basis with ambiguous reasoning at best"

See what I did there? 🙂 What I'm trying to say that Dustys case is by no means a unique one and he hasn't been singled out because we specifically don't like him.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...