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Server time: 2019-04-21, 21:11
Ducky

Removal of buried stashes

Buried Stashes  

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Hello everyone, friendly neighborhood Ducky here.

Had a wonderful conversation with @Zero @Tander and a few other people in general chat last night and it did spark some interest.

See originally I've been against storage fully, but I can see that it has it's purpose, and ultimately storage itself isn't actually the peak of the problem.

No the problem last update was infact that people would find seachests and drybags, and then they would dig down rifles in the forest, resulting in what I believe was "80" rifles scattered across people actively using them to be reduced to about 15 or 20.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I actually enjoyed the shortage of rifles, but it didn't make much sense, since ammo would be the first to run out of, not the actual weapons themselves.

 

Before I get sidetracked however, let me move back on topic.

Buried stashes are incredibly difficult to see. Compare that to a tent, car or a storage crate you will have no problem actually hunting for them.

But if some person has gone to debug, buried about 7 drybags there is no chance at all of anyone coming across that stash.

And if that person is hoarding 10 rifles by himself? And there are 6 other people doing the same thing?

We will very quickly end up in the same scenario as last patch, that there are no automatic rifles left.

 

I believe that if we remove the function to bury seachests and drybags then we will still have plenty of opportunity to create stashes, barrels, storage crates and some of the new storage options are all available, and they are at the very least able to be found compared to a dark texture on forest soil.

 

Feel free to discuss below, and as for @Zero @Tander you two had strong opinions as well, I'd definitely like to see your input on this thread incase I missed something.

 

TL:DR
I think we should remove buried stashes because overall they damage the economy and take items out of circulation instead of having them be used.

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Posted (edited)

I’m in favor for removing the ability to bury sea chests and dry bags entirely, but I know that from experience people who abuse the system will most likely vote no. 

As a compromise and alternative I would also suggest reducing the spawn rate of dry bags and sea chests drastically. Perhaps only allowing a handful to ever spawn. Say 3-5 sea chests on a server. This makes them a highly sought after item and could open up more player driven trade economy options. The same could be said for the dry bag.

Edited by Zero

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I would be 100% fine with the removal of this ability. Still, remember the time I ran all over the map to find an M4 or an AK. Only found a Mosin. But thankfully with MoreGuns added onto the Server it won't be a problem anymore and if this ability was to get removed it could help people who aren't in groups actually get some good stuff to work with. 

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Out of curiosity: Is hoarding of guns in hidden stashes actually such a huge problem? I'm barely ever in military locations but I noticed that a lot of people were interested in my AK during the last weeks. Is there really a fixed amount of guns spawing and once they are all hidden they dont spawn anymore?

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2 minutes ago, Malet said:

Out of curiosity: Is hoarding of guns in hidden stashes actually such a huge problem? I'm barely ever in military locations but I noticed that a lot of people were interested in my AK during the last weeks. Is there really a fixed amount of guns spawing and once they are all hidden they dont spawn anymore?

Yep. I've visited major military outposts and checkpoints across the map and the most I found was a SKS pre-wipe. Assault rifles were impossible to find.

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1 minute ago, Malet said:

Out of curiosity: Is hoarding of guns in hidden stashes actually such a huge problem? I'm barely ever in military locations but I noticed that a lot of people were interested in my AK during the last weeks. Is there really a fixed amount of guns spawing and once they are all hidden they dont spawn anymore?

The server has a limited number of each entity it can spawn. Once the quota has been reached, it will no longer spawn in one of those guns, meaning @Ducky's issue is true. Eventually people can hoard every single useful item resulting in none spawning. Some players also play on RP servers for the non-KOS capability so they can hoard their stuff more freely with rules to protect them, meaning they will spend all day just looting guns etc. and storing them.

I am in favour of removing the ability to bury shit. People have bases etc. they can set up, they have places they can hide barrels, boxes etc. But burying numerous guns? Nah. I'd rather the very few people that do this were unable to so the rest of the server can actually enjoy looting up in a game that is 75% looting. 

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4 minutes ago, Malet said:

Out of curiosity: Is hoarding of guns in hidden stashes actually such a huge problem? I'm barely ever in military locations but I noticed that a lot of people were interested in my AK during the last weeks. Is there really a fixed amount of guns spawing and once they are all hidden they dont spawn anymore?

Quite the problem. As I said above I once went all over the map to every Military Base and checkpoint. All I found was ONE Mosin. Not even a UMP or FNX to grab. 

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100% agree on this.... Spent hours just to find gun attachments. I am here to RP ...not to constantly keep trying to find a weapon to defend myself.... And don't tell me mele weapons work. They do, but clothes get ruined....and then you need to find more of the style you like...

 

Yea.....stop the lorewhores. Purge.

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Posted (edited)

When at least , let's say 60% , of a player base of a good 100+ players have a stash for themselves / that group (which I personally do not think is wrong) of course we will have loot problems in a loot system that is so arse backwards that these sorts of item caps had to be put in the first place... 

How about we fix the broke stupid loot system instead of removing stashes? Because let's be frigging real here folks, the devs added this shit into the game knowing full well this would be an issue. Not just on our server, but other servers too. 

We keep saying that Mods need to fix the issues devs didn't fix... why not start with this bloody awful loot system? 


Addition: The reason I have this stance is because I agree that good RP does not equal desperatly searching for an attachment for 30+ hours because all the items have been hoarded in hidden boxes. 

But also good RP does not equal players having to go around "Base hunting" for most of their weekend playtime  to get the guns / items  the game itself refuses to spawn when the "item cap" is reached. 

So removing the stashes is a band-aid on a huge gaping wound that is this ridiculous loot system. 

Edited by The Traveler

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2 minutes ago, The Traveler said:

When at least , let's say 60% , of a player base of a good 100+ players have a stash for themselves / that group (which I personally do not think is wrong) of course we will have loot problems in a loot system that is so arse backwards that these sorts of item caps had to be put in the first place... 

How about we fix the broke stupid loot system instead of removing stashes? Because let's be frigging real here folks, the devs added this shit into the game knowing full well this would be an issue. Not just on our server, but other servers too. 

We keep saying that Mods need to fix the issues devs didn't fix... why not start with this bloody awful loot system? 

It’s a system within the game. I highly doubt it can be “removed” as it’s so intertwined within the loot economy and spawning. This was the dayz devs plan all along.

Since 2015 they wanted to implement a system where there would item caps. It just now was added because they managed to finally work out their own game.

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Just now, Zero said:

It’s a system within the game. I highly doubt it can be “removed” as it’s so intertwined within the loot economy and spawning. This was the dayz devs plan all along.

Since 2015 they wanted to implement a system where there would item caps. It just now was added because they managed to finally work out their own game.

The dayz devs are fucking morons. You can't have a game based on building bases and hidden stashes AND having a set item cap... 

With enough time and pressure i'm sure this issue could be removed through dev work. 

If it can't then shit, getting rid of hidden stashes will only stem the problem short term, we'll still end up spending 3/4 of our game time hunting for other player's tents, barrels and camps to get the equipment we need. Last time I checked that wasn't why I signed up to this game, and i'm sure most other people didn't too. 

Now one could be like "well don't go base hunting then" however, with that argument it implies we should just deal with not having nice items which, according the overwhelming response to this thread so far, is clearly not an option. 

This problem goes way beyond the hidden stashes, and is deep rooted in this shitty loot economy. 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, The Traveler said:

The dayz devs are fucking morons. You can't have a game based on building bases and hidden stashes AND having a set item cap... 

With enough time and pressure i'm sure this issue could be removed through dev work. 

If it can't then shit, getting rid of hidden stashes will only stem the problem short term, we'll still end up spending 3/4 of our game time hunting for other player's tents, barrels and camps to get the equipment we need. Last time I checked that wasn't why I signed up to this game, and i'm sure most other people didn't too. 

Now one could be like "well don't go base hunting then" however, with that argument it implies we should just deal with not having nice items which, according the overwhelming response to this thread so far, is clearly not an option. 

This problem goes way beyond the hidden stashes, and is deep rooted in this shitty loot economy. 

Yes it’s still an issue but at least if buried stashes were removed then it would be easier to actually “raid” for those stashes. Most people erect walls and large watch towers making the ability to get weapons accomplishable. With stashes the texture is almost identical to the forest floor making it near impossible to find them. 

Edited by Zero

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Zero said:

Yes it’s still an issue but at least if buried stashes were removed then it would be easier to actually “raid” for those stashes. Most people erect walls and large watch towers making the ability to get weapons accomplisable. With stashes the texture is almost identical to the forest floor making it near impossible to find them. 

If I want to spend most my time raiding bases to get integral I need to play the game, i'd just play rust. 

This still boils down to the fact the hidden boxes shouldn't be what our devs strive to fix.... every little band-aid task we give them is less time they have to deal with the more important issues. 

I believe, as I have for a while, a massive upheaval of the loot economy (changing the system to have abundances of certain items in certain areas of the map to encourage travel and trade) + the removal of the item cap should be the number 1 priority of our dev team. 

I want us to strive to end the issues, not make them the lesser of two evils 
 

Edited by The Traveler

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I don't really care for assault rifles so hidden stashes don't really affect me, but I think that it still might cause some players distress seeing as they absolutely need an assault rifle to R O L E P L A Y, so I voted to remove them.

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I like hidden storage such as buriable containers, most of the time the other options were simply not always suitable, especially with the changes where placement of barrels or tents became a lot more nitpicky. I liked it the old way, could at least let you be somewhat lucky or creative.

 

I'd like to keep them. But at the same time I see the dilemma. Tough one. While I voted no so far I'd also survive seeing them gone.

 

Or, obviously, don't remove the containers themselves like drybags and sea chests, just make sea chests last long like tents etc and remove the ability to bury such things, if the community as a whole and staff want to do this.

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If the vote to not remove buried stashes wins then maybe implement some kind of weapon/gear break down can be implemented when stored. So if a weapon/gear is not carried and it is horded in a crate, barrel, bag, etc. it starts to break down over time and later become ruined if not repaired which would put the gun/gear back into circulation. Same with weapon cleaners, sewing kits, etc. so players cannot horde these as well without them breaking down as well.  Once something is ruined within a storage container of any kind it disappears within minutes and goes back into the system so players that could possibly end up with the mind set if I cannot have it no one has it mentality and hordes ruined weapons, gear, tools etc. lessening the spawn rate in that direction. Again just a thought.

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+1 to this. So damn irritating having to spend an hour and a half just to find a UMP or any other gun apart from an SKS because they're all being hoarded.

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1 hour ago, OldSchool said:

I don't really care for assault rifles so hidden stashes don't really affect me, but I think that it still might cause some players distress seeing as they absolutely need an assault rifle to R O L E P L A Y, so I voted to remove them.

Shade aside,

A lot of this game is looting, you may not care but whilst we are still playing a game, some people do actually want bigger guns to carry out their group goals. Many groups probably aren't going to win a conflict with mosins are they?

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Posted (edited)

+1

People can have bases etc and shit inside of it to keep..
But stuff that is literally buried in the middle of nowhere with like 5-10 other bags in the area stocked with mil shit, that needs to go.

Stashes make sense on pubs where theres no interaction, here however. Nope.

Edited by Mexi

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1 hour ago, OldSchool said:

I don't really care for assault rifles so hidden stashes don't really affect me, but I think that it still might cause some players distress seeing as they absolutely need an assault rifle to R O L E P L A Y, so I voted to remove them.

Not trying to be rude but you've not played in a month and only put in 89 hours in the last two years man. I don't think you're a very reliable voice when it comes to the state of the loot economy and how it effects game play. Also it's not that people need AR's for "roleplay" but I mean, PVP and hostileRP is a big part of the server and as @Para stated, fighting conflicts with mosins and mean words can only go so far. 

Anyways, I want stashes removed. They're borderline guaranteed ways of hiding massive stashes of guns, rare and otherwise, just for the sake of having them and fucking up the loot economy. I'll vote accordingly. Because you know theres some people out there that buried 5 AK's and M4's and can't even remember where they did it at just for the sake of it. 

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I might get a lot of hate for this but I, probably among others, lead a group and one of our focuses was holding a lot of auto rifles as we knew it would make them scarce. It actually led to a lot of RP for us whenever we were trying to make a deal and automatic rifles came up. I understand that this isn't particularly fair as this RP goes to a tiny proportion of the player base but the amount of effort that was put into making this happen was immense. 

Now again, I'm not claiming to have been the all powerful rifle grabber, because if we were doing it, others were too. I'd just recommend that the entity limit be increased (if possible).

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1 minute ago, Caraham said:

I might get a lot of hate for this but I, probably among others, lead a group and one of our focuses was holding a lot of auto rifles as we knew it would make them scarce. It actually led to a lot of RP for us whenever we were trying to make a deal and automatic rifles came up. I understand that this isn't particularly fair as this RP goes to a tiny proportion of the player base but the amount of effort that was put into making this happen was immense. 

 Now again, I'm not claiming to have been the all powerful rifle grabber, because if we were doing it, others were too. I'd just recommend that the entity limit be increased (if possible).

I see this argument and I do agree to an extent it could be cool to see RP stem from scarcity of certain things being hoarded by a group, but only if that group is activley advertising that they have the rifles and are selling them, otherwise those out of the loop would kinda just be left in the dark. 

I think increasing the spawns is a good middle ground, but again, i'd still like to see stashes removed. You'd still have crates and tents and barrels, it'd just be more feasible for another group to make a power grab so to speak, and take the rifles for themselves at one point. 

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5 minutes ago, Caraham said:

I might get a lot of hate for this but I, probably among others, lead a group and one of our focuses was holding a lot of auto rifles as we knew it would make them scarce. It actually led to a lot of RP for us whenever we were trying to make a deal and automatic rifles came up. I understand that this isn't particularly fair as this RP goes to a tiny proportion of the player base but the amount of effort that was put into making this happen was immense. 

Now again, I'm not claiming to have been the all powerful rifle grabber, because if we were doing it, others were too. I'd just recommend that the entity limit be increased (if possible).

You'd still be able to do this, it would just require you to actually store them in boxes in your base, or create stashes that have a chance of being found.

The problem with the buried stashes is that they are impossible to find and impossible to raid unless you know their specific location.

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I can agree with this. It completely fucked the weapon economy when everyone had them stashed, but now with the new weapons added with the MoreGuns mod I feel like there shouldn't be a problem getting weapons anymore. Overall I think stashes should stay because of the new weapons that have been added.

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In a perfect world, people and groups would handle loot responsibly and stashes could be a positive aspect of the game. However, I am noticing more and more the detrimental effect they have on RP. I am massively in favour of any steps to create a healthy loot economy, be that removing buried stashes, bringing back persistence wipes, or restricting storage in other ways.

 

Issue 1: People who seldom play or haven’t played for months could be hoarding guns in stashes that are almost impossible to find.

 

Issue 2: Groups are able to steal and hoard on a large scale, making military weapons difficult to both find and keep, with lone survivors lucky enough to have a good gun being an easy target for robberies. It is also not possible for the average survivor to gain access to secure bases to retrieve weapons.

 

Issue 3: I’m not a pvper, but being robbed by people carrying military weapons when you only have a pistol makes fighting back not an option, giving groups of bandits a further monopoly on weapons.

 

Issue 4: It got to a point before the new update that there was almost no point in looting anymore. I really enjoyed moving around the map, searching buildings and tents in the hopes of finding a better gun but this became completely pointless due to the lack of spawns.

 

Issue 5: You could argue that an average survivor doesn’t need a military grade weapon, but not having one has RP implications. Many times I have used guns as currency to negotiate contracts with mercenaries or bribe someone for information. The spawns for food and ammo are so high that this lost its value, but guns were always a valuable commodity.

 

Already, people are taking cars to military locations and filling them with guns to stash. Maybe with the new mod things will be different, but there is still only an finite number to my understanding and sooner or later, this issue will present itself again. With the wipe, this is a great time to make the change or at least warn people of a proposed change.

 

TLDR: Hoarders are robbing the average survivor of the chance to find military weapons and this wipe is the perfect time to make changes to storage.

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