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Rengo

RP regarding base raiding/takeover

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Hi everyone, newcomer here. I've read the rules a few times, and I'm suprised not to find any rules regarding base building/raiding other than the griefing one (4.8). 

This is ofcourse, a RP community and every rule is designed to provide a good interaction between both parties. I don't understand the reason behind a lack of rules regarding interactions during base raiding, currently this leads to people raiding bases without any kind of RP because they wait for it to be empty in order to avoid that.

I've been reading different posts and complains in the forums about this, from people that probably gave up on building because they don't find any sense on spending so much time, in something that won't be there the next time you come online. Finding several of these post under the suggestion section, I figured it would be more apropiate to bring this one under the discussion one.

EDIT

- Please read the opinions below this post before making your reply, since some ideas are clarified there. -

I'm not discussing preventing bases from being raid, or gear from being stolen. It's about creating an enjoyable interaction between both sides of a raid.

Loot economy (hoarding) would not be a problem, since raiding would still be allowed.

Griefing (rule 4.8), is not the subject of the discussion. It's a good and necesary rule but it doesn't contemplates interactions.

 

The most common opposite ideas about this matter states that if you don't have the manpower to protect a base, you should stick to hiding stashes. Some say an indestructible wall would be "unrealistic". I'm gonna make it short stating my pov on these cases.. First, not everyone has the time availability to protect a base, hardly enough to build one. Not everyone want's to be part of a big faction or group, and you shouldn't be prived from an important feature of the game such as base building because of that. And for the folks that wave the realism flag, don't miss the point that rules are set in a game to provide balance, not realism. A good example of this are the current rules regarding hostile interactions, no one would think those are "unrealistic" rules, because that's not the goal of them. 

The goal of this community as far as I understand, is to provide a good RP experience for everyone involved in an interaction. 

Base building is a very important feature of the game, and the lack of rules regarding interactions during base raiding, causes to be none interaction at all during a raid. 

Even tho this is a veteran community, I see rules are not writed in stone. In fact, they were improved not too long ago. This is why I want to leave a suggestion on this post and have a discussion about it aswell. Designing rules for a game it's not an easy task, specially RP rules in a sandbox game like this. That's why I want to bring on the table an example of a different community (wich name I won't say), regarding this matter. It's important to mention that base building in military loot-spawn areas is forbidden. You can build in Tisy for example, but you need to leave an open entrance to buildings where military loot spawns.

  • Quote

    Base destruction is disabled at all times (from the outside), the only way to enter a base is to catch the door open or crack the code of the lock. If you manage to get in by a legitimate way, you are allowed to steal only %25 of the content. In the case you wanna take the base for yourself or your faction, you need to have a good IC reason and RP with the owner of the base.

EDIT: I don't share the first part of this rule, just the last sentence. I just quoted it entirely.

This last sentence is for me, the most important aspect of the rule; it forces an interaction during a raid or takeover. And a stand-off on this case can be a very fun moment, which due to the lack of rules we are unable to experience here. Now, is this a "perfect" rule? I'm sure it isn't, and maybe it is very far from it. But at least, it is a starting point from where it can be shaped taking into account every possible scenario we can imagine. And specially, every abuse that can be made from that rule.

 

I'm new in this community, and I'm just giving my feedback here. I just couldn't avoid to notice the big gap that exist regarding interactions during base raids. I believe that such an important feature can't be ignored and left outside of the rules, because that means it is left outisde of the role play. Forcing interactions on these cases will improve the roleplay experience for everyone, and will incentivize the construction of more bases and settlements. Please note that I'm not talking here about unbreachable bases, my whole point is to make an interaction out of it. Thus hoarding wouldn't be a problem, since items would continue to be reachable.

Thanks for reading, and please share your opinion so we can develop a healthy discussion on this matter!

- Rengo.

 

EDIT (last post update):

  • Set up a defined time lapse during weekends (rush hour) to allow vanilla base destruction. Rest of the week, base destruction would be disabled from the outside. This would give the defender side a greater chance to be online during a raid, and everyone would have (more or less) equal opportunities and chances this way. Plus those folks who enjoy peacefull settlement lifes could have a relatively quiet opportunity to enjoy their type of RP too, and bases/settlements would have the entire week to recover from the bloody weekend. 
Edited by Rengo

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I'm pretty sure the reason why there are no rules regarding base raids is because there are no logs at the moment. Like, how would the Staff ever enforce "25% of the content" from each base? How do you even quantify that?

I'm also pretty sure raiding for the sake of trolling or griefing is already against the rules, but all reports just end up inconclusive because its hard to get evidence and there are no logs. The Staff here have taken a new approach when it comes to rules because of how difficult some are to enforce, due to how vague they are, or due to the lack of logs.

They're mostly umbrella terms or guidelines. Like trolling doesn't have to include every single way a person could troll another. If trolling is against the rules, anything done in a trollish way is punishable. If you make everything too specific, you end up limiting yourself.

Edited by XieAngel

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I don't see a way to enforce or quantify that, even if there was a way to do it.. it would be a pain for the staff. I would completely ignore that part of the rule, and take only the last sentence that I pointed out. I would also add a mod to prevent lock hacking with macros (wich only takes minutes), that way the only way to breach would be trough RP with someone from that base.

There are existing logs regarding basebuilding that could be used, for example if someone boosts or glitchs into a base and deconstructs it from the inside. I guess maybe the server already counts with that. If you are talking about item management logs, no. I don't know of any existing logs regarding that matter.

Thanks for your opinion!

 

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No, just no

 

If someone has broken in to your camp and taken from you then it means you haven’t hidden your camp well enough or done enough to prevent it being broken into.

now if someone has broken in by knocking every wall down and then throwing everything on the floor so it despawns then you can make s report. But saying your can’t break in at all is not realistic. If I find a camp and I have an axe and I’m in need of stuff I’m breaking in and looting. This is a survival game and you should be allowed to do what it takes to survive and if that means raiding a camp you should be allowed to do so. 

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There is basically no way to enforce most of this. 

If you can't defend the base, that's pretty much on you. 

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Quote
  • Base destruction is disabled at all times (from the outside), the only way to enter a base is to catch the door open or crack the code of the lock. If you manage to get in by a legitimate way, you are allowed to steal only %25 of the content. In the case you wanna take the base for yourself or your faction, you need to have a good IC reason and RP with the owner of the base.

Okay, no. Let's use the Saviors fortress as an example. If we turn off destruction, there is no way as a hostile group attacking them that we can win. It becomes one sided and to be honest, it's not needed. 

This entire thing just looks like an excuse to make sure gear is not stolen, which to me is a big no go and limits hostilities if anything. This isn't factions on Minecraft where I have to have certain amount of power before I take over a compound, if I fight a group, win and their doors are either unlocked or removed I will either take it over or grab what I want and leave, will usually be the second one. 

Quote

I'm new in this community, and I'm just giving my feedback here. I just couldn't avoid to notice the big gap that exist regarding interactions during base raids. I believe that such an important feature can't be ignored and left outside of the rules, because that means it is left outisde of the role play. 

Welcome to the community, firstly.

Interactions during base raids are exactly that, raids. People WILL steal items because it makes sense to do so. Nothing is left 'outside' of roleplay. Explore the town to find people, see if they know anything of the break in and further relations with these people, ask them to keep their ears open and come back to you if they find anything out. All of the previously mentioned furthers RP with others. Gathering items in an unraidable base to look over and leave nothing for people outside of it, that's being a hoarder and provides nothing to the community.

Quote

There is basically no way to enforce most of this. 

If you can't defend the base, that's pretty much on you. 

VNP sums all of this up pretty well.
This can't be enforced, there is a griefing rule to prevent such issues that occur without any prior RP but other than that, if you build a base it's on you to defend it. We have logs to prevent what I mentioned before.

Quote

4.8 Griefing is act of damaging or destroying a player base, storage container, vehicles or their contents using OOC knowledge, ill intent or doing so without IC reasoning that is proportionate to the damage done.

 

Edited by Mexi

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51 minutes ago, neom said:

No, just no

 

If someone has broken in to your camp and taken from you then it means you haven’t hidden your camp well enough or done enough to prevent it being broken into.

now if someone has broken in by knocking every wall down and then throwing everything on the floor so it despawns then you can make s report. But saying your can’t break in at all is not realistic. If I find a camp and I have an axe and I’m in need of stuff I’m breaking in and looting. This is a survival game and you should be allowed to do what it takes to survive and if that means raiding a camp you should be allowed to do so. 

Thanks for bringing this point of view into the discussion neom, because I believe there are many players that share it. I share it aswell, but not in a RP server. Let me tell you the reason, regarding the points you've made:

  1. Spoiler
    19 minutes ago, neom said:

    If someone has broken in to your camp and taken from you then it means you haven’t hidden your camp well enough or done enough to prevent it being broken into.

     

     

    There is currently nothing you can do to prevent people from breaking in when you are not online. With the right tools and just a single duct tape, no matter how many layers you have.. it can be done in a few minutes. Even if you build it in a remote location, someone will eventually find it, is just a matter of time.

     

  2. Spoiler
    29 minutes ago, neom said:

    saying your can’t break in at all is not realistic. If I find a camp and I have an axe and I’m in need of stuff I’m breaking in and looting. 

     

    First, I'm not saying you can't break in at all; I'm saying there should be an interaction between both parties in order to improve the roleplay experience of base attack - base defence mechanics. With the current state of the rules, many people awaits for the base to be empty in order to raid. So, where is the interaction in that kind of situation? Don't forget this is a roleplay server after all and as I stated in the post rules are set to bring balance, not realism.

  3. Spoiler
    51 minutes ago, neom said:

    This is a survival game and you should be allowed to do what it takes to survive and if that means raiding a camp you should be allowed to do so. 

     

    I share the point that you should be allowed to do so, as long as there is an interaction. And once again, this is a survival game but a RP server and rules are meant to bring balance, not realism. As an example, If I should be allowed to do what it takes to survive I could kill a guy and eat him to prevent starving, but that would ruin the experience for that person. Many of the rules don't make sense if you look at them from the point of view of a survival game, because they have to be adapted in order to fit roleplay. 

 

36 minutes ago, Veryniceperson said:

There is basically no way to enforce most of this. 

If you can't defend the base, that's pretty much on you. 

To make it clear, the only thing that I'm suggesting to enforce is an interaction between both parties of a raid; to prevent this from happening when one party is missing. 

Let's say my friends and I can play only on weekends, or my play style/character doesn't fit into a big faction or group that can be online most of the time. We would not be able to defend our base, even tho we would like to engage into a raiding situation because simply we are not there. Then I'm or we are doomed to not be able to enjoy such a feature.

 

58 minutes ago, Mexi said:

This entire thing just looks like an excuse to make sure gear is not stolen, which to me is a big no go and limits hostilities if anything. This isn't factions on Minecraft where I have to have certain amount of power before I take over a compound

Gear would still be stolen, preventing raiding is not the point. And instead of limiting hostilities it would do quite the opposite in fact, as a hostile interaction can't be initiated unless there is some one to interact with. 

44 minutes ago, Mexi said:

I fight a group, win and their doors are either unlocked or removed I will either take it over or grab what I want and leave, will usually be the second one. 

I agree with you here because I (and probably everyone) usually do the same thing.. Would you agree with me that this is more entertaining when someone is defending it?

A fight can't occur if there is no one inside the base. And that's the whole point I'm making here, to enforce an interaction. Not to prevent raiding at all, just to ensure there is someone there at the moment you do it. Just to make sure at least a bit of RP occurs, and is not simply a 'get in-grab-get out' mechanic.

 

1 hour ago, Mexi said:

Welcome to the community, firstly.

Interactions during base raids are exactly that, raids. People WILL steal items because it makes sense to do so. Nothing is left 'outside' of roleplay. Explore the town to find people, see if they know anything of the break in and further relations with these people, ask them to keep their ears open and come back to you if they find anything out. All of the previously mentioned furthers RP with others. Gathering items in an unraidable base to look over and leave nothing for people outside of it, that's being a hoarder and provides nothing to the community.

Thank you, this sounds interesting and is actually something good that could come out of a raid with no defenders. Sadly I believe this could apply to a very narrow spectrum of raids, because most of the time you never figure out who did it. Since it was probably done by a single guy who stashed your stuff under a bush nearby, that will eventually forget where it was. Such scenario would be nice, but it's doubtly that things will develop that way very often. I think it's more likely to ocurr that you find nothing, and the situation repeated itself the next weekend when you came online and found your shack raided.

And once more time, bases would not be "unraidable", thus hoarding would not be a problem since items would still get stolen either way. The only difference being, that there was someone present at the moment of the raid, and an interaction was forced to occur.

1 hour ago, Mexi said:

Okay, no. Let's use the Saviors fortress as an example. If we turn off destruction, there is no way as a hostile group attacking them that we can win. It becomes one sided and to be honest, it's not needed. 

I left your first sentence for the last because this is a very important, if not the most important part of developing such a rule as the one I'm speaking of. And that's the issue of bringing balance. Like the balance between an Atacker and a Defender in a hostile initiation; there has to be an equal, or as equal as possible chance to achieve victory for both sides of the conflict.

When and how to enforce an interaction during a raid is here to discuss. Turning off destruction is an option I brought on the table as an example to be analized, discussed, tweaked or ditched; in order to achieve the goal of enhancing roleplay during base raiding.

Please, try leaving the 'no' out of the equation for a moment and come up with an idea to make of this mechanic an enjoyable roleplay experience for everyone involved.

An option could be, to disable base protection during rush hours at weekends. At least this would give a chance for defenders to be at their base during a raid.

 

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So your saying due to it being an RP we should have a rule that people can’t break into camps. So let me stop you there, here we focus on trying to make things as close to real life as physically possibly, so like I said if I am low on food and ammo and I see a base hidden in the woods and I have an axe what is the logical thing to do.

Just sit and wait around for the gate to open and bum rush the people inside with my AK with 30 rounds and I’m by myself NO that’s NVFL.

You would scope out the camp see if it’s empty break in and take what you want and run like hell and carry on living.

With you saying you want interaction, it doesn’t matter, I am really sorry but if I am breaking into your camp I’m not waiting around for you to get online or come back I’m breaking in and doing it as easy and as quick as pos, LIKE YOU WOULD DO IN REAL LIFE 

I am really sorry mate but your rule idea defeats the objective of keeping things real and borders on making people break NVFL. 

I think people need to accept that your stuff will get stolen and broken into. What is the difference between robbing a camp and robbing someone when they are out and about, NOTHING just breaking a wall to gain entry. 

I think you need to come to terms with your stuff will get robbed weather you like it or not. 

Griefing on the other hand should be dealt with 

Edited by neom

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Honestly, I like how the rules currently act. Like how they're simple, common sense is required to fill in the gaps of what is and isn't allowed.

I think the rules should continue to stay simple, instead of filling up the page with extremely specific rules and scenarios. The less rules restricting what can happen in game, the better.

I also believe that you should be able to do almost anything in game as long as it progresses RP and isn't bad RP or KOS. The more rules you have, the harder it is to RP with other people and groups. This is confirmed by the fact that the server, at the height of it's largest and most restrictive rules page last summer, was dead. People stopped playing either because dayz was progressing too slowly, or because they felt like they couldn't do anything and that there was nothing to do. The easier we make it to RP and be focused on realism, the better.

Adding a magic OOC limit of 25% to the amount of things you can steal from a camp is more about punishing someone than it is about improving or progressing RP.

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You find a camp then you loot it, I know my character would although I agree that you had a passive character who does not like conflict it would not be realistic to break into somebody's camp however the rules as they are at the moment regarding bases is reasonable I think

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Personally it's a location issue to me, where you build your base. If you build it somewhere obvious or way too big etc. then you can expect it to be raided, and to be honest quite rightly so. The only way to combat this is that you better have enough people in the group to police it. 

If you don't want your base raided (that often) then make sure the location is discreet.

As mentioned the above members have said we are at a point where the rules are balanced quite well and are simple enough to not confuse and actually hinder realism/roleplay. More rules to protect all those lovely shiny things are not needed and gear can always be replaced. 

However if all of your walls etc. have been taken down or items left on the floor to despawn and its obvious that those actions fall under greifing then throw up a report. 

It's an apocalyptic survival game, your going to die, be robbed and those shiny things that you covet are going to be taken. If you cannot police your base effectively then have a hard think about how you can prevent it from happening IC'ly not OOC'ly. 

Edited by Samaritan

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So basically allow the loot economy to sink deep due to persistence because you say others who raid them offline offers no RP, no thank you.

You have an obvious base out in the open shame on you for not being awake during the raid.

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1 hour ago, neom said:

So your saying due to it being an RP we should have a rule that people can’t break into camps. So let me stop you there, here we focus on trying to make things as close to real life as physically possibly, so like I said if I am low on food and ammo and I see a base hidden in the woods and I have an axe what is the logical thing to do.

Just sit and wait around for the gate to open and bum rush the people inside with my AK with 30 rounds and I’m by myself NO that’s NVFL.

You would scope out the camp see if it’s empty break in and take what you want and run like hell and carry on living.

With you saying you want interaction, it doesn’t matter, I am really sorry but if I am breaking into your camp I’m not waiting around for you to get online or come back I’m breaking in and doing it as easy and as quick as pos, LIKE YOU WOULD DO IN REAL LIFE 

I am really sorry mate but your rule idea defeats the objective of keeping things real and borders on making people break NVFL. 

Lets try again, I never said there should be a rule that people can't break into camps. I'm saying there should be a rule that ensures there is an interaction (RP) when a raid occurs. In order for this to be possible, both parties have to be present in the first place.

I already stated above the difference about realism and game balance when it comes to rules. Following your example, if I'm starving and I see a guy with his back turned on me.. plus I have a gun in my hand, what is the logical thing to do for a psychopath? Don't look after realistic rules in a controled enviroment such as a RP server, if you think things should be done like YOU WOULD DO IN REAL LIFE; then there should be no rules at all in the first place.

And the NVFL rule would be an important aspect of what I'm proposing, not the opposing thing like you say. Let me put an example about it, let's say you find a camp with your friends and you scout it. Turns out there is a lonely little survivor inside, so you and your guys approach the front door and knock.. "Let me in, Let me in, little pig or I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll blow your head off". That counting as a hostile initiation, the little pig would be forced to interact and 'probably' let the wolves in. Otherwise it would be considered NVFL from the pig, because the wolves threaten to kill him/ set the camp on fire/ whatever..

2 hours ago, neom said:

I think people need to accept that your stuff will get stolen and broken into. What is the difference between robbing a camp and robbing someone when they are out and about, NOTHING just breaking a wall to gain entry. 

I think you need to come to terms with your stuff will get robbed weather you like it or not. 

Well, the difference is quite obvious for me here. To rob someone you are forced to have at least a boring interaction, if you are lucky enough you might enjoy an interesting one. To rob an empty camp on the other hand, you just need to get in - grab the stuff - get out. No interaction, no roleplay at all. 

I think we are missing the point here, the problem is not the stuff, the stolen gear or the walls destroyed. It's about the lack of interaction in a roleplay based server.

 

1 hour ago, Dusty said:

I also believe that you should be able to do almost anything in game as long as it progresses RP and isn't bad RP or KOS. 

How come raiding an empty base progresses RP? Can you bear with me stating it's more enjoyable for both ends of the sword, when there's someone else in the other side of the wall?

1 hour ago, Dusty said:

The more rules you have, the harder it is to RP with other people and groups. This is confirmed by the fact that the server, at the height of it's largest and most restrictive rules page last summer, was dead. People stopped playing either because dayz was progressing too slowly, or because they felt like they couldn't do anything and that there was nothing to do. The easier we make it to RP and be focused on realism, the better.

Adding a magic OOC limit of 25% to the amount of things you can steal from a camp is more about punishing someone than it is about improving or progressing RP.

I agree with you here, but in this case there is not a single rule about RP during raids and that causes to be none RP at all (leave rule 4.8 out of the equation, because that's about a different subject; griefing).

I don't agree with the 25% rule neither as I stated above, I just quoted the entire rule and pointed out the important part. Enforcing an interaction.

57 minutes ago, Samaritan said:

Personally it's a location issue to me, where you build your base. If you build it somewhere obvious or way too big etc. then you can expect it to be raided, and to be honest quite rightly so. The only way to combat this is that you better have enough people in the group to police it. 

If you don't want your base raided (that often) then make sure the location is discreet.

As mentioned the above members have said we are at a point where the rules are balanced quite well and are simple enough to not confuse and actually hinder realism/roleplay. More rules to protect all those lovely shiny things are not needed and gear can always be replaced. 

However if all of your walls etc. have been taken down or items left on the floor to despawn and its obvious that those actions fall under greifing then throw up a report. 

It's an apocalyptic survival game, your going to die, be robbed and those shiny things that you covet are going to be taken. If you cannot police your base effectively then have a hard think about how you can prevent it from happening IC'ly not OOC'ly. 

We are not discussing ways to prevent bases from being raided, it's about creating an enjoyable RP interaction out of it. The rule would have nothing to do about protecting gear neither, it's about interactions. 

And speaking about preventing a raid from happening IC'ly, if an interaction was necesary to raid (following with the pig example), the pig could offer a deal or the pack of wolves could extort the little pig for, lets say X ammount of nails or ammo per week, idk. How can you achieve this if the wolves only raid when the pig is at the office? And the pig doesn't even knows who the wolves are.

23 minutes ago, Eagle said:

So basically allow the loot economy to sink deep due to persistence because you say others who raid them offline offers no RP, no thank you.

You have an obvious base out in the open shame on you for not being awake during the raid.

Loot economy would stay as it is. You would still be able to raid bases, no one ever stated the opposite.

I don't have a base and probably never have one, instead I'll stick to hiding stuff under a bush wich I'm sure has a larger effect on sinking the loot economy when most of the players relies on it.

 

 

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I said my main piece on this before but others are cementing my opinion.

We had bass raid cooldowns in the past and it ended up being a report fest and honestly, boring. Things are fine as they are, don’t like being raided? Build somewhere less obvious. Rule additions surrounding bases other than griefing ones aren’t needed. We have logs to question those that do it and it’s gone well so far. There have been few reports of griefing that actually have gone up and someone banned because people ‘destroying’ bases hasn’t been a thing.

Rules are fine in the area of bases currently, no need to change it.

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5 minutes ago, Mexi said:

I said my main piece on this before but others are cementing my opinion.

We had bass raid cooldowns in the past and it ended up being a report fest and honestly, boring. Things are fine as they are, don’t like being raided? Build somewhere less obvious. Rule additions surrounding bases other than griefing ones aren’t needed. We have logs to question those that do it and it’s gone well so far. There have been few reports of griefing that actually have gone up and someone banned because people ‘destroying’ bases hasn’t been a thing.

Rules are fine in the area of bases currently, no need to change it.

Can you describe a bit what that system consisted about please?

At first glance, it doesn't sounds like an interaction was the goal of a base raid cooldown.

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8 minutes ago, Rengo said:

Can you describe a bit what that system consisted about please?

At first glance, it doesn't sounds like an interaction was the goal of a base raid cooldown.

Honestly it was the majority of what you’ve suggested.

I get why you suggested it, but it’s not that big of a deal to warrent more rules being added to protect it.

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42 minutes ago, Rengo said:

 

Loot economy would stay as it is. You would still be able to raid bases, no one ever stated the opposite.

I don't have a base and probably never have one, instead I'll stick to hiding stuff under a bush wich I'm sure has a larger effect on sinking the loot economy when most of the players relies on it.

 

 

1

Loot economy would belong to those that owned bases the server is on persistence so only so much of one item can spawn meaning at one point people could have all of the AK's on the server if no one could penetrate their walls, along with this I could wall off VMC or south barracks on NWAF and the only way you could come in is when you manage to crack the lock or I open the door? see the OP factor this gives to base owners? If walls could only be blown up with explosives I would be all for a system like that but since those don't even exist this is what we have to work with and no alternative factors should allow peoples bases to become super forts.
hB8DBDED4

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2 minutes ago, Eagle said:

Loot economy would belong to those that owned bases the server is on persistence so only so much of one item can spawn meaning at one point people could have all of the AK's on the server if no one could penetrate their walls(1), along with this I could wall off VMC(2) or south barracks on NWAF and the only way you could come in is when you manage to crack the lock or I open the door? see the OP factor this gives to base owners?
 

  1. Wall penetration would be possible, trough RP. As I stated above, in several posts; disabling base raiding is not on discussion.
  2. You couldn't, like I said it would require to forbid closing military loot-spawns buildings. You would be able to build a base at VMC, just make sure you are not blocking any entrances to buildings where military loot spawns.
  3. Refeer back to point 1, you could enter only trough an interaction and proper RP.

 

Bases, would still be breachable. Loot economy, would not be afected.

 

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Agree with @Eagle and @Dusty here.

By doing that you basically make bases safe zones, and completely disable the survivalistic aspect of needing supplies and breaking into a base to take them (which is an rp reason) and have people forced to rp to break into a base which is unrealistic and annoying.

Even by breaking into an empty base you still progress you own characters RP and even the base owners seeing how as he comes back he realizes he was broken into and now needs to work to seal off the wall and improve so it wont happen again. And be paranoid towards people who get too close for comfort.

On the other hand if you break into a base just to despawn and destory all of their walls and loot for no reason then its a bannable offence and you should report it as it is griefing. 

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A hard limit of only 25% of the content... what? So you expect me to actually sit down and mathematically work out what 25% of the items are else I get banned, during a raid? No.

Necessity to RP with an owner of a base? Does a man who robs a store at night wait for the owner to be back around again the following morning, or does he try and go in quietly to take the stuff? 

@Pep sums it up nicely. Perfectly in fact. 

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I think the solution to this is simple. If you want a base then you have two options, one is making a small camp in a hidden area to keep your items safe. Option 2 is making a base with walls, gates etc like what the Saviors have. If you choose option two and you don't have the man power to protect it then you shouldn't have built it in the first place. Hide it, or protect it, simple.

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47 minutes ago, Pep said:

By doing that you basically make bases safe zones, and completely disable the survivalistic aspect of needing supplies and breaking into a base to take them (which is an rp reason) and have people forced to rp to break into a base which is unrealistic and annoying.

Even by breaking into an empty base you still progress you own characters RP and even the base owners seeing how as he comes back he realizes he was broken into and now needs to work to seal off the wall and improve so it wont happen again. And be paranoid towards people who get too close for comfort.

How come a base would become a safe zone? You could still get raided and killed inside of it, in fact you would be more likely to die in your base now that it can only be raided when you are there.

The survivalistic aspect you talk about, would persist. The only change being, you would need to RP in order to get them, just like you do with everything else; you RP. I don't see the problem on being forced to RP on a RP based community.

People claims the community is not about gear and hoarding loot, it is about good RP. Well, don't we have a problem then when people breaks into an empty base avoiding any interaction with the base owner in order to get their supplies? And no matter how well the owner repairs, seals, and improves the wall. It will get teared down in just a minute when he is offline.

 

33 minutes ago, Para said:

A hard limit of only 25% of the content... what? So you expect me to actually sit down and mathematically work out what 25% of the items are else I get banned, during a raid? No.

 We agree on this one.

Spoiler
11 hours ago, Rengo said:

 

  • Quote

    Base destruction is disabled at all times (from the outside), the only way to enter a base is to catch the door open or crack the code of the lock. If you manage to get in by a legitimate way, you are allowed to steal only %25 of the content. In the case you wanna take the base for yourself or your faction, you need to have a good IC reason and RP with the owner of the base.

     

EDIT: I don't share the first part of this rule, just the last sentence. I just quoted it entirely.

This last sentence is for me, the most important aspect of the rule; it forces an interaction...

4 hours ago, Dusty said:

Adding a magic OOC limit of 25% to the amount of things you can steal from a camp is more about punishing someone than it is about improving or progressing RP.

1 hour ago, Rengo said:

I don't agree with the 25% rule neither as I stated above, I just quoted the entire rule and pointed out the important part. Enforcing an interaction.

 

 

33 minutes ago, Para said:

Necessity to RP with an owner of a base? Does a man who robs a store at night wait for the owner to be back around again the following morning, or does he try and go in quietly to take the stuff? 

 

1 hour ago, Rengo said:

I already stated above the difference about realism and game balance when it comes to rules.

11 hours ago, Rengo said:

...for the folks that wave the realism flag, don't miss the point that rules are set in a game to provide balance, not realism. A good example of this are the current rules regarding hostile interactions, no one would think those are "unrealistic" rules, because that's not the goal of them. 

The goal of this community as far as I understand, is to provide a good RP experience for everyone involved in an interaction. 

Base building is a very important feature of the game, and the lack of rules regarding interactions during base raiding, causes to be none interaction at all during a raid. 

 

Yes, you would need to RP with the owner (or at least a member) of a base. It makes sense for me, at least in a RP community.

 

 

21 minutes ago, YO_MIKE said:

I think the solution to this is simple. If you want a base then you have two options, one is making a small camp in a hidden area to keep your items safe. Option 2 is making a base with walls, gates etc like what the Saviors have. If you choose option two and you don't have the man power to protect it then you shouldn't have built it in the first place. Hide it, or protect it, simple.

 

 

2 hours ago, Rengo said:

I think we are missing the point here, the problem is not the stuff, the stolen gear or the walls destroyed. It's about the lack of interaction in a roleplay based server.

2 hours ago, Rengo said:

We are not discussing ways to prevent bases from being raided, it's about creating an enjoyable RP interaction out of it. The rule would have nothing to do about protecting gear neither, it's about interactions. 

Edited by Rengo

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1 hour ago, Rengo said:

 

  1. Wall penetration would be possible, trough RP. As I stated above, in several posts; disabling base raiding is not on discussion.
  2. You couldn't, like I said it would require to forbid closing military loot-spawns buildings. You would be able to build a base at VMC, just make sure you are not blocking any entrances to buildings where military loot spawns.
  3. Refeer back to point 1, you could enter only trough an interaction and proper RP.

 

Bases, would still be breachable. Loot economy, would not be afected.

 

Sorry but this just sounds like protection for bases when they aren't online we have hundreds of players and giving one side some form of a special rule so they can keep there gear safe is just dumb IMO. You say RP all I see is just alternative measure to give the base owners an upper hand just because.

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44 minutes ago, Rengo said:

-snip-

 

So if i find somebody's private stash out in the middle of nowhere i now can't do anything unless I potentially sit there and wait for him to return, which could be  hours? Nah fam this is just needless base protection. You make a base, be prepared to lose your shit whilst you're not there. IRL there are no simple "no raiding whilst i'm offline" rules that people follow, why here?

You are effectively disabling a huge portion of base raiding. And you claim loot tables will be unaffected, however this is simply untrue. If i cannot raid somebody's base, what's to stop a no-name whitename just logging in on the dead hours of the day and hoarding gun after gun, all the ammo in a single, now un-raidable, base. This is a bad rule change. Base advantage rules, if any, should not come in a form like this.

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