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Highlander

Green Mountain Radio

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Is there any way i could get some mod help with a forum post in the Green Mountain Radio thread? I have a one-way broadcast frequency for the radio tower at green mountain. Its like the radio station in your car or on your stereo- you can't reply to it cause its one-way  broadcast. The intention of the thread is to create lore and immersion for players, not to start conversations. Green mountain radio djs and reporters post on it for this purpose. We have an open frequency for communication with Green mountain.

I had someone post on the One-way thread and I have asked  them as politely as possible (mulitple times as well) if they could copy/paste their post into our open frequency (which we have for  people who want to respond on shortwave to information in the broadcasts). They have flat out refused (which honestly makes no sense to me as its a courtesy that takes like 5 seconds). 
Is there anything i can do about this?

It is a bit immersion breaking for characters listening to the radio as you can't reply to a radio station broadcasting music. It is also a very simple request and courtesy to other players.

Again, i reiterate that i am not asking them to not say their peace- only that they move the post to our open frequency where they will actually get a reply as no one is going to reply on the one-way as realistically no one can hear it.

Edited by Highlander

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Private and closed frequencies were removed a while back.

Would fall under that, making it void.

/shrug.

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Perntinent threads are listed here:
 

The one-way broadcast:

The open frequency:

 

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5. All frequencies and messages are treated public and all players and characters can use the conversations as IC information later in game.

 

As taken from Rule No. 5 of Radio chatter rules. Sorry. One-way doesn't exist. All freq's are public, hence open to anyone.

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@Chewy are you staff? I can't tell.

Edited by Highlander

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I'm not quite sure where rule 5 would make those classic radio-broadcasts ("one-way") impossible. Now, I'm no expert on radio and broadcasting technicalities without investigating the matter which would take me a bit of time, but I imagine that unless you transmit your radio program through an actual radio channel people can use to communicate on (two-way) and assuming that all the radios people run around with are capable of listening to your usual radio frequencies somehow (or they have a separate radio with them for this), it would be "one-way".

 

Normal radios and whatnot are obvious: They can only receive, usually have no sending capabilities. I speak about car radios or the classic older ones, the smaller "boxes". I dunno if modern hand held devices can receive radio like a classic radio can. I'll look this up after this post and see how it would be "realistically" or by likelihood. I mean how else will this work if they broadcast like a radio station from the compound, anyone with a hand held radio can speak on their frequency or what???

 

Let's take a look at rule 5 and assume one-way is possible:

"5. All frequencies and messages are treated public and all players and characters can use the conversations as IC information later in game."

 

The radio frequency would be public, and what is broadcast is heard and can be used. It would just mean that due to how it would be set up, players could not reply on that frequency. I assume one could read the "are treated as public" part in the sense of "open to all", but I simply read it as "You cannot have radio threads and pretend no other people can listen to this, aka private frequencies".

 

In this case it's in essence public, but one-way as you'd have to be at the source of the broadcast speaking through the mic or whatever to be able to speak on the frequency, and assuming the people there are not literally transmitting their program through a two-way device or channel.


In short, if that's basically how a radio station would work and if you use it like that ("one-way"), I'd just ignore broadcasts on that frequency unless staff has another opinion about this or says the rules don't permit this to be one-way. If so, I'd perhaps slightly clarify them in regards to "two-way" and "one-way" or consider a rule change for cases like this if need be.

Edited by Combine

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5 minutes ago, Combine said:

I'm not quite sure where rule 5 would make those classic radio-broadcasts ("one-way") impossible. Now, I'm no expert on radio and broadcasting technicalities without investigating the matter which would take me a bit of time, but I imagine that unless you transmit your radio program through an actual radio channel people can use to communicate on (two-way) and assuming that all the radios people run around with are capable of listening to your usual radio frequencies somehow (or they have a separate radio with them for this), it would be "one-way".

 

Normal radios and whatnot are obvious: They can only receive, usually have no sending capabilities. I speak about car radios or the classic older ones, the smaller "boxes". I dunno if modern hand held devices can receive radio like a classic radio can. I'll look this up after this post and see how it would be "realistically" or by likelihood. I mean how else will this work if they broadcast like a radio station from the compound, anyone with a hand held radio can speak on their frequency or what???

 

Let's take a look at rule 5 and assume one-way is possible:

"5. All frequencies and messages are treated public and all players and characters can use the conversations as IC information later in game."

 

The radio frequency would be public, and what is broadcast is heard and can be used. It would just mean that due to how it would be set up, players could not reply on that frequency. I assume one could read the "are treated as public" part in the sense of "open to all", but I simply read it as "You cannot have radio threads and pretend no other people can listen to this, aka private frequencies".

 

In this case it's in essence public, but one-way as you'd have to be at the source of the broadcast speaking through the mic or whatever to be able to speak on the frequency, and assuming the people there are not literally transmitting their program through a two-way device or channel.


In short, if that's basically how a radio station would work and if you use it like that ("one-way"), I'd just ignore broadcasts on that frequency unless staff has another opinion about this or says the rules don't permit this to be one-way. If so, I'd perhaps slightly clarify them in regards to "two-way" and "one-way" or consider a rule change for cases like this if need be.

I agree here- it is absolutely possible for people to hear the Broadcast on stereos and in cars and what not and reply on the open-frequency page we have for the shortwave two-way handheld radios everyone carries, as people have been doing this whole time out of respect for each other's immerison. I honestly don't see why such a fuss had to be made when people could just be respectful of each other and reply on the open-frequency thread?

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It's also no rocket science to just pick the right frequency (or thread in this case). A short look at the title shows which the right thread or frequency would be. I refuse to believe it is hard and would say this to anyone, even group members, and if you made a mistake by accident, you could just delete your post and copy it over. To keep the thread flow neat.

This is all assuming it is technically not really viable or possible for people to reply on that frequency from anywhere else, that is, assuming you can hear radio signals on those devices people use to speak on frequencies all the time. Google, here I come.

 

Edited by Combine
Removed duplicate expression, and typo removed.

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9 minutes ago, Combine said:

It's also no rocket science or mentally challenging to just pick the right frequency (or thread in this case). A short look at the title shows which the right thread or frequency would be. I refuse to believe it is hard and would say this to anyone, even group members, and if you made a mistake by accident, you could just delete your post and copy it over.

This is all assuming it is technically not really viable or possible for people to reply on that frequency from anywhere else, that is, assuming you can hear radio signals on those devices people use to speak on frequencies all the time. Google, here I come.

 

Yes, i assumed the same and asked Mexi politely several times in a PM if they could be so kind as to accomodate other players that way- but I was flat out refused, so not sure what there really is to be done about it other than just ignore it and carry on - unless the mods see fit to sort it out.

Also, i just wanna say i appreciate your understanding of what we are trying to do with the radio station- creating immersion for others.

Edited by Highlander

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You're broadcasting to two way radios. It's not hard to understand that people are able to reply. Not everyone is carrying a car radio or whatever in their pockets. Everyone (mostly) has a long range radio that could potentially be tuned into that freq. They can also reply. Just ignore it.

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3 minutes ago, Combine said:

It's also no rocket science or mentally challenging to just pick the right frequency (or thread in this case). A short look at the title shows which the right thread or frequency would be. I refuse to believe it is hard and would say this to anyone, even group members, and if you made a mistake by accident, you could just delete your post and copy it over. To keep the threat flow neat.

This is all assuming it is technically not really viable or possible for people to reply on that frequency from anywhere else, that is, assuming you can hear radio signals on those devices people use to speak on frequencies all the time. Google, here I come.

Short answer from someone in a quasi-related technical field.

Broadcast radio stations are simplex communications. One broadcasts, one receives, it is impossible to communicate back on the frequency. Simply because the broadcast station /can not/ receive a signal, as it has no receiver.

 

Half duplex communication is what most of my industry works in, and is what 99% of commercial push to talk radios and walky talkies use. Only one party can communicate at a time, if more then one person try to speak they simply can't connect. 

 

Full Duplex communication is what military grade radios, telephone calls, cellphone calls, and damn near every other form of communication use. Both parties can talk simultaneously without garbling the line.

 

 

There is nothing preventing someone from trying to talk back on Green Mountains Frequency, except that they would in real life be absolutely drowned out and unable to overpower the towers broadcast. Assuming they actually /had/ a tower to broadcast from. However Green Mountain won't hear them, and can't ever hear them, because its a broadcast tower; it has zero receiving ability.

 

I'm not at all weighing in on the rules of the forum or game, just the technology.

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36 minutes ago, Highlander said:

@Chewy are you staff? I can't tell.

Ex staff, not that it matters she explained the rule as is written.

Didn't seem to be much of an issue before with he reply.

Spoiler

Chewyreply.png.5d7b45af7de8302dec702fb97412a4e5.png

As respectful and polite as you were, there is a rule so people are able to interact and reply with others without being cut off from 'one way' or 'private frequencies'.
Just because you ask politely doesn't mean people must do as you ask.

I said if the Mods+ have an issue with my message I'll gladly snip it, otherwise I've done nothing but reply to your thread IC. 

Edited by Mexi

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2 minutes ago, Mexi said:

Ex staff, not that it matters she explained the rule as is written.

Didn't seem to be much of an issue before with he reply.

  Reveal hidden contents

Chewyreply.png.5d7b45af7de8302dec702fb97412a4e5.png

As respectful and polite as you were, there is a rule so people are able to interact and reply with others without being cut off from 'one way' or 'private frequencies'.
Just because you ask politely doesn't mean people must do as you ask.

I said if the Mods+ have an issue with my message I'll gladly snip it, otherwise I've done nothing but reply to your thread IC. 

No one said there was an issue with chewy's reply- i was asking as im not familiar with the colours yet. and yeah i did ask politely, and yeah you don't have to return the courtesy- all points that have already been made so not really sure what the point of this response was?

4 minutes ago, Rover said:

Short answer from someone in a quasi-related technical field.

Broadcast radio stations are simplex communications. One broadcasts, one receives, it is impossible to communicate back on the frequency. Simply because the broadcast station /can not/ receive a signal, as it has no receiver.

 

Half duplex communication is what most of my industry works in, and is what 99% of commercial push to talk radios and walky talkies use. Only one party can communicate at a time, if more then one person try to speak they simply can't connect. 

 

Full Duplex communication is what military grade radios, telephone calls, cellphone calls, and damn near every other form of communication use. Both parties can talk simultaneously without garbling the line.

 

 

There is nothing preventing someone from trying to talk back on Green Mountains Frequency, except that they would in real life be absolutely drowned out and unable to overpower the towers broadcast. Assuming they actually /had/ a tower to broadcast from. However Green Mountain won't hear them, and can't ever hear them, because its a broadcast tower; it has zero receiving ability.

 

I'm not at all weighing in on the rules of the forum or game, just the technology.

Thanks for the insight! Always helps to know your way around something like that.

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I mean sure. You can make a thread where you simply put out messages and news, but people will still get said replies on said frequency. Which they can in turn say whatever they want on that frequency. Can't stop that here or irl. 

Irl the only thing stopping someone from broadcasting over radios is the power of their equipment and the FCC. Since you aren't constantly broadcasting and I'm pretty sure you don't have the FCC on your side you can't stop it. Plus, it's a rule. Sorry ?

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The radio rules state you cannot have private transmissions (or one way). Under rule 5. It restricted peoples rights to roleplay with the other person since so many frequencies basically were private and was unfair to others. The only thing I can think of for a radio frequency one-way would be a car radio. But that’s about it.

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Just to add a bit more to the technical explanation.

 

Two-way Radios in nearly all cases can not communicate on the same channel as a broadcast radio. Simply because they were never designed to do so.

 

Broadcast radio stations (FM/AM radio towers) have a designated FCC band as someone mentioned above. These bands are areas where they and only they are allowed to operate at an effective frequency; you might be allowed to rig up a little home version to mess around with but only at a power level that would be so miniscule no one would be bothered by your little project.

 

Nearly all two way radios, and long distance radios such as those in use by characters, have no ability to ACTUALLY receive these signals, for the simple reason they weren't really ever designed to. After all, why would anyone manufacture a two-way radio that is able to receive a frequency it can't legally broadcast on? It is certainly possible to engineer a radio to do this if one had the knowledge and know-how, but it falls under the same problem as before.... Why would you? No one is talking on those stations.

 

To me the issue with having a Broadcast Frequency Radio like Green Mountain is simply no one would hear it. Everyone is carrying radios designed to work in the same range. The only people that'd be catching broadcast tower signals would be those with pocket FM/AM radios, those with car radios, or those with luxury radios that have the ability to broadcast on UHF/VHF to other two-way radios, but also a seperate receiver for AM/FM radios. Some luxury models I remember selling back in my RadioShack days had that.

 

 

Edited by Rover
Underlined word

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