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Megaphone Initiations?

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4 hours ago, Jasper said:

How else am I supposed to safely R O L E P L A Y at unsuspecting bystanders without dying tho?

Simply put, initiations that carry 0 risk means initiators always win which is besides the point. You initiating hostility is supposed to carry some element of risk, especially being as you are the oppressive side (in terms of threatening harm etc.) You shouldn't have a risk free initiation simply for fair play's sake. I'm arguing for confusion's sake why I understand the initiations are invalid, no matter how useful proper use of the megaphone is. 

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I understand why people don't want it to be allowed. They want to be able to resist and kill the person initiating basically. However, as of right now if a megaphone is used from a long distance, it is more likely those initiated on have a chance to escape. Remember as well that a megaphone ensures everyone around hears that the initiation is taking place... instead of just a small circle of people, and others start getting shot and don't know why. Also... people can Initiate behind walls and in buildings still... so they can still initiate from safety if they are intelligent.

@Para I will initiate on you from behind a wall, and tell my sniper to shoot you if you don't comply. Thus being no danger to me what so ever. At least if I initiate on you with a megaphone, you have a chance to run or dip into a building without people seeing you quickly and knowing you aren't complying. I do wish people would try to value rp more in a Initiation... but that wont happen. I will do what I can when I initiate and ensure we are close, but that won't happen with everyone.
 

@Roland Can I ask you to be more specific on what was said in your thread. I know that megaphones are invalid, but your wording is vague. If I am next to the group and stay behind the wall, I then initiate on the few next to me and after start using the megaphone so everyone knows they need to put their hands up? What are the boundries? Seems like using a megaphone to ensure everyone is aware of the initiation would be the smart thing to do.... but it makes it invalid because of the megaphone? I don't understand.

Edited by Zipcouda

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Megaphone initiations are my favorite *would nudge his media thread* Here and I will be very disappointed if this is now outlawed by the gods. Although, I do think you should be required to identify yourself by name, and specify who you are and are not initiating on.

ex- “Hello yes this is Dre with the green dragons, I want everyone in town wearing a pink cowboy hat to put their grubby mits in the air, everyone else may leave peacefully or suffer the consequences.”

Edited by BanksRP 2
God I hate autocorrect

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11 minutes ago, Zipcouda said:

@Roland Can I ask you to be more specific on what was said in your thread. I know that megaphones are invalid, but your wording is vague. If I am next to the group and stay behind the wall, I then initiate on the few next to me and start using the megaphone so everyone hears it? What are the boundries? Seems like using a megaphone to ensure everyone is aware of the initiation would be the smart thing to do.... but it makes it invalid because of the megaphone? I don't understand.

Haven't you read the rules page? It clearly states that it's not about banning use of the megaphone or other items, but the fact that identity of the attackers must be known so that people have a fair chance of defending themselves. The radio, PA system and megaphone were mentioned as examples because they are a popular way to do initiations remotely, which would then go against this new rule.

Forget about the megaphone, think about that people must know exactly which person or group is initiating on them.

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10 minutes ago, BanksRP 2 said:

Megaphone initiations are my favorite *would nudge his media thread* Here and I will be very disappointed if this is now outlawed by the gods. Although, I do think you should be required to identify yourself by name, and specify who you are and are not initiating on.

ex- “Hello yes this is Dre with the green dragons, I want everyone in town wearing a pink cowboy hat to put their grubby mits in the air, everyone else may leave peacefully or suffer the consequences.”

I agree with this, however its prone to abuse and can be a bit of an issue.

 

I have been involved in a few megaphone initiations, and the only one that was actually /good/ was done by The Saviors (I think) on Kabanino.

 

However in that case it was literally a disembodied voice in the distance, with no idea who, how many, etc was doing the initiating.

 

While the ability to megaphone from afar is probably great for a realistic sense of what they wanted to achieve, its absolute garbage for a game with rules and would have no doubt led to a lot of reports about random people being KOS'd by those getting initiated on (who thought they were the ones doing it) or RDM reports from people that weren't present for the initial initiation, later walked into town, and got shot down by the people doing the holdup.

 

IMO, in order to have any semblance of order, an initiation should involve line of sight to the person doing it, and it being clear and obvious they are the threat. Hearing a voice from a house yelling 'hands up or I'll shoot you' would be easy to mistake for a robbery the next street over. Thats why the rule states clearly now that the victims need to be aware of who is doing it. No more hiding behind walls or in buildings and yelling initiations out.

 

Note the important bolded lines. The examples given after are just two of obviously many cases. (Roland later clarified in the thread that megaphones are also remote). The target has to know who is initiating on them.

Hostile actions or initiations must be done personally and on specific targets who must be aware who the attacker is, for example they cannot be done remotely through radio or PA system.

 

EDIT: See post directly above mine.

Edited by Rover
Roland ninja'd me.

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I think megaphone's work if the initiation also specifies a target, so if one group is looking for another group and specify which group it's reasonable but initiating on a whole location is lazy bad roleplay.

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Just now, Roland said:

Haven't you read the rules page? It clearly states that it's not about banning use of the megaphone or other items, but the fact that identity of the attackers must be known so that people have a fair chance of defending themselves. The radio, PA system and megaphone were mentioned as examples because they are a popular way to do initiations remotely, which would then go against this new rule.

Forget about the megaphone, think about that people must know exactly which person or group is initiating on them.

Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification!

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@Zipcouda you didn't address me but I'm gonna offer my opinion anyway. You're right, there are methods of initiating where the risk can be reduced to the initiator, but they again aren't comparable to a megaphone's range. If you initiate on me from behind a wall, using VOIP, I will still have an approximate idea of where you are because I know roughly what VOIP range is. Its not ideal obviously but what situation is?

With a megaphone its different, the range on that thing is insane, I can't give you a max range on it but I've been initiated on with it from what I estimate to be 200m out. There's little risk in lining up some lad at that range, initiating on him and having your sniper buddy gas him if he doesn't comply, whereas in the scenario you mentioned, there is still some risk to the initiator because they're still within VOIP range.

With that being said, I'm not opposed to it being used as a supplementary tool in initiations as you described, but if its being used in the manner that I described, that's when I have a problem.

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@Roland So we can use it, but we need to be sure we are introduce ourselves when its used? "Everyone this is District, put your hands up and don't move or you will die!" So that would be valid with the megaphone as long as we say who we are... so distance or being visible doesn't matter?

I have read the rules, but I simply wanted clarification as people are interpreting it one way, and others another. Also as the staff team has shown recently, it is based on their point of view of what the rules state, as well as the situation. I again just wanted clarification from you.

I know when I get initiated on I want to know who it is doing it. I almost wish that the megaphone wasn't even in the game. But it does allow everyone in the town to know what was going on.

Edited by Zipcouda

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They can be done if the enemy ain't hiding.

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18 minutes ago, Roland said:

Forget about the megaphone, think about that people must know exactly which person or group is initiating on them.

Multiple questions. 

Are initiations from behind walls okay? 

Are initiations on people who have their backs turned to me okay? 

Do I have to state my group name while initiating? 

 

On topic: We've done a few of them and I gotta say megaphone are a blessing if you want to reach people who are running from you. I don't mind them, as long as it isn't a mass initiation on an entire town so WW3 starts. 

Edited by Grimnir

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My opinion is: the Megaphone should be looked at in an objective way. It can be abused and give People an unfair Advantage (for example Megaphone initiates on town from 400 m away and 3 inside men spraying the non compliants). At this Point it should be an invalid Initiation because nobody knows who initiated and have no Chance to react defensive against it without breaking a rule. 
But at the other side a Megaphone makes it clear for everyone around the area that a hostile action is happening. On this way you prevent uninvolved People Walking into the Situation and getting misidentified and gunned down. As Long as it is fair used and everyone knows who is initiating it should be valid. At the end you don't use the Megaphone to tell your enemy that you are coming. You use it to give uninvolved People the Chance to surrender and understanding the Situation while the initiating Party is on a Kind of safe range to value their lifes before finally attacking instead of running into 20 People without knowing who a target is and who not.

When everyone keeps the fair Play part in mind and don't abuse this object it should be valid to initiate with it. You can Prevent a lot of misunderstandings with it. If anyone feels like reporting something like this then it should be only done if it is Breaking the fair Play aspect and not just because it is in the rules. Just my personal opinion.

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TL;DR: Now this is just my general stance without saying "This is now an issue" (or not): Such things should not be used for cryptic mass initiations and starting chaotic firefights due to lack of info. But at the same time, it should not be over-regulated via rules because those might not always fit every situation.

 

Again, not saying it is over-regulated or so, I'm more so giving my stance for the future. I guess we'll just have to see how this goes now and what gets reported and punished and, in a wider sense, what becomes some sort of new "standard" or "way to go" to pull off some things with megaphones or PA systems.

Edited by Combine

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1 hour ago, Roland said:

Haven't you read the rules page? It clearly states that it's not about banning use of the megaphone or other items, but the fact that identity of the attackers must be known so that people have a fair chance of defending themselves. The radio, PA system and megaphone were mentioned as examples because they are a popular way to do initiations remotely, which would then go against this new rule.

Forget about the megaphone, think about that people must know exactly which person or group is initiating on them.

With this in mind, if I were to use a megaphone to initiate on individuals inside a building/base/complex in a manner similar to:

"On behalf of all of Free Territory, (X Group, person or people) inside (X Building, complex, area) will have to put their hands up or they will be fired upon."

Would that be okay and well within the spectrum of the rules?

 

I feel as if this use of the megaphone would be valid as it lets known to everyone who is being initiated on, as well as who the attackers are.

 

Would you say this is a fair and legal way to use the advantages of the Megaphone in order to ensure that there are no misunderstandings?

 

After all if the following is known:

1. Who the attackers are

2. Who the defenders are

3. Where this is taking place

 

Then surely there can be no questions in regards to fairness or misunderstandings?

If this format is acceptable I will keep that in mind for the next time, if not then I suppose we will have to get up close and personal as we always have, and only use the megaphone for alerting un-involved parties to an ongoing firefight.

Edited by Ducky

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I didn't see an issue with Megaphone initiations... I don't see what is stopping my character from initiating with a Megaphone... Oh wait...

R u i n i n g   m y    i m m e r s i o n 

Nah tbh. I just want it back... 

Edited by Beni

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1 minute ago, Beni said:

I didn't see an issue with Megaphone initiations... I don't see what is stopping my character from initiating with a Megaphone... Oh wait...

R u i n i n g   m y    i m m e r s i o n 

Nah tbh. I just want it back... M

Enough people complaint and here we are today.

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1 minute ago, Eagle said:

Enough people complaint and here we are today.

If enough people complain then.... Well then.

Eagle, make a change thread with a poll, please. 

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44 minutes ago, Beni said:

If enough people complain then.... Well then.

Eagle, make a change thread with a poll, please. 

I have no power here.

But there still allowed in an obvious fashion not hide behind a building 700m and initiated.

Edited by Eagle

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On 2/1/2019 at 9:53 AM, Roland said:

Forget about the megaphone, think about that people must know exactly which person or group is initiating on them

If I say "This is new moon, and I am sitting in X location (open field, inside this specific house, this side of town, etc), put your hands up now or die", is that legitimate? What if theycan very clearly see me when I say "Put your hands up now or die"? (Edit: I read this postBecause your wording leaves room for "loopholes". What exactly is fine and what exactly is not when it comes to megaphones? 

Edited by Dusty

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