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Camo

Megaphone Initiations?

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  • 4.1 All initiations and hostile actions as well as their demands and conditions must be made clear and unambiguous to all involved players. Hostile actions or initiations must be done personally and on specific targets who must be aware who the attacker is, for example they cannot be done remotely through radio or PA system.

Does this include megaphones now? I bring this up, because I have noticed players use this advantage to initiate on a player hubs (compounds, towns, etc), with a megaphone from 300-500m away.

I'm not against megaphone initiations, I just wanted clarity, since this is a newly implemented rule revisement of 4.1.

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@Roland cleared it up, megaphone's are not valid initiations as your initiation is not clear and unambigious. In a town of 30 people if could literally be anybody initiating. Yelling through a megaphone on the edge of town "everybody in the town put your hands up" through multiple buildings means nobody can identify who the initiators are. 

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Direct quote from Rolle to back up @Para's statement.

Edited by Elmo

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1 minute ago, Elmo said:

Direct quote from Rolle to back up @Para's statement.

Oh shit,  I missed this. I take back what I said.  I work too much to keep up with everything lol

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1 minute ago, Nightngale said:

Oh shit,  I missed this. I take back what I said.  I work too much to keep up with everything lol

The more you know ? 

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So essentially the only time a "megaphone initiation" would be valid, is if you're standing out in the open and it's clear who it is using the megaphone. Good to know.

Yeah just found the quote... Thanks Para.

On 1/28/2019 at 7:30 AM, Roland said:

It does apply to everything, megaphone included. PA and radio are just most prominent examples where the characters responsible are REALLY far away and not present. But it can be done in other ways to and give unfair advantage to attackers.

 

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I guess I'll just give out my location and make my megaphone initiation specific then.

"I'm inside the police station, I want everyone on the street in front of the police station and the buildings directly around it to put their hands up!"

 

The only time I use a megaphone is when I'm not sure if everyone I'm trying to reach is within voip range or if I'm telling people to leave a town because of a fight. If that's not legitimate, then fuck me I guess.

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12 minutes ago, Dusty said:

I guess I'll just give out my location and make my megaphone initiation specific then.

"I'm inside the police station, I want everyone on the street in front of the police station and the buildings directly around it to put their hands up!"

 

The only time I use a megaphone is when I'm not sure if everyone I'm trying to reach is within voip range or if I'm telling people to leave a town because of a fight. If that's not legitimate, then fuck me I guess.

See now, that, in my opinion, both of these statements would be is acceptable usage of the megaphone, while abiding by the new rule changes.....

  • You specifically show who you are, and where you are... By visibly standing beside a window, or standing on the roof of the police station. 

 

Now, in regards to warning non-involved bystanders, who you're not technically "threatening" or "initiating upon" who attempt to enter the town.....

  • You're trying to notify anyone entering the town, to leave or they may end up being fired upon, which would fall under NVFL rules if they ignore it and died. Simply because the they didn't heed the warning, and then they sprint into a town when a firefight is occuring, and get killed in the crossfire, it's their own damn fault. It wouldn't win in a report, to claim "invalid kill" or "miss ID-ed" against the person who shot them.

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10 minutes ago, Dusty said:

-snip-

I'd imagine its the same line of reasoning that originally led to text initiations from behind walls being considered invalid, promoting fair play instead of one side having the advantage of an ambiguous location because of game mechanics. That thing's distance is pretty mad, no wonder its being regulated.

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3 minutes ago, Elmo said:

I'd imagine its the same line of reasoning that originally led to text initiations from behind walls being considered invalid, promoting fair play instead of one side having the advantage of an ambiguous location because of game mechanics. That thing's distance is pretty mad, no wonder its being regulated.

But realistically, why would the one causing hostilities NOT have the advantage in every scenario? Isn't that the point of the hostilities? Because they think they can win?

Just seems like rules for the sake of rules with no logic being applied to it to me. Outside of someone blasting Gucci Gang in their mic in an RP hotspot this would make megaphones utterly pointless. Everyone just seems scared of certain items being objectively good. Good doesn't necessarily equate to OP or unfair. 

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Here's why I support megaphone initiations... (If fairly used, and abides the 4.1 rule.)

(1) Instead of screaming at whole town from the center of the road, trying to get everyone's attention, and also placing yourself in immediate danger by being out of cover.

You use a tool to gain the upper hand. This keeps you from the risk of a NVFL rule-break by getting shot by 20 armed soldiers. While also keeping all players happy because they can hear you over everyone else's VOIP. Preventing a headache of reports due to claims stating that the opposing parties "didn't hear an initiation".

(2) Similar to the reasoning of reason one to prevent claims of "didn't hear an initiation", the megaphone initiator can announce repeatedly to anyone who logins in the middle of a firefight, as well as those entering the town, that there's a firefight occurring to leave or comply to the demands.

Edited by CamoRP

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Just now, Jasper said:

But realistically, why would the one causing hostilities NOT have the advantage in every scenario? Isn't that the point of the hostilities? Because they think they can win?

Just seems like rules for the sake of rules with no logic being applied to it to me. Outside of someone blasting Gucci Gang in their mic in an RP hotspot this would make megaphones utterly pointless. Everyone just seems scared of certain items being objectively good. Good doesn't necessarily equate to OP or unfair.

Realism is not a lens with which to view DayZRP. If that was the case you wouldn't initiate at all and we'd all just shoot each other on sight. Just look at section 2 of the rules, DayZRP is a community that focuses on fair play and role play rather than realism. I'm not Rolle or staff so I can't comment on why the rule was made but, if I were to make an educated guess, I'd say they were keeping those principles in mind.

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Just now, Elmo said:

Realism is not a lens with which to view DayZRP. If that was the case you wouldn't initiate at all and we'd all just shoot each other on sight. Just look at section 2 of the rules, DayZRP is a community that focuses on fair play and role play rather than realism. I'm not Rolle or staff so I can't comment on why the rule was made but, if I were to make an educated guess, I'd say they were keeping those principles in mind.

Yesssss but as I said there's nothing inherently unfair about one man grabbing a megaphone and using it for that purpose when literally everyone else can. 

hand over the potatos and nobody gets hurt

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1 minute ago, Elmo said:

Realism is not a lens with which to view DayZRP. If that was the case you wouldn't initiate at all and we'd all just shoot each other on sight. Just look at section 2 of the rules, DayZRP is a community that focuses on fair play and role play rather than realism. I'm not Rolle or staff so I can't comment on why the rule was made but, if I were to make an educated guess, I'd say they were keeping those principles in mind.

Very well said. I completely agree.

1 minute ago, Jasper said:

Yesssss but as I said there's nothing inherently unfair about one man grabbing a megaphone and using it for that purpose when literally everyone else can. 

hand over the potatos and nobody gets hurt

It's a matter of gaining a FAIR advantage.

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2 minutes ago, CamoRP said:

Very well said. I completely agree.

It's a matter of gaining a FAIR advantage.

Idk fair is subjective, In my eyes if anyone can use a megaphone and they're common as fuck and all it does is make your voice louder and wider reaching...it just seems weird to implement a bundle of rules regarding it. Should we just ban LMG's when they're added because its "unfair how big their mags are" compared to an AK? 

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4 minutes ago, Jasper said:

Yesssss but as I said there's nothing inherently unfair about one man grabbing a megaphone and using it for that purpose when literally everyone else can. 

With the current range of the megaphone, in my personal experience, being the way it is, we'll just have to disagree. It should always be risky to initiate on people, as that's the intent of the rule, so to remove that initial risk would be horribly unfair to any defending parties.

Quote

hand over the potatos and nobody gets hurt

No.

Edited by Elmo

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1 hour ago, Jasper said:

But realistically, why would the one causing hostilities NOT have the advantage in every scenario? Isn't that the point of the hostilities? Because they think they can win?

Just seems like rules for the sake of rules with no logic being applied to it to me. Outside of someone blasting Gucci Gang in their mic in an RP hotspot this would make megaphones utterly pointless. Everyone just seems scared of certain items being objectively good. Good doesn't necessarily equate to OP or unfair. 

Personal opinion on the matter, I agree that good does not necessarily equate to OP or unfair, in this case i think it's very circumstantial as to whether the megaphone makes a situation OP or unfair. With @Dusty's reasoning it makes sense to have one,

However, the megaphone is so ludicrously easy to abuse to the point where all risk as the initiator can be removed, as @Elmo has said. Imagine a scenario where a crowd of 20+ people are chillling, some off whom are with the initiator sat 200-300m away with a megaphone. Only the megaphone initiates, and nobody has any idea who is actually initiating. Anybody who didn't comply to an initiation, where nobody knew who the initiator was, would consequently be gunned down. Spin it on its head, what if the one person initiating is alone and people are practically forced to comply, one of the biggest problems being identification of targets. Life or death, you do what you can, but for the sake of RP here we have a rule specifically stating you must identify targets properly, and use of kill rights is at your own risk. My fear, from a megaphone initiation with nobody else aiming a gun, isn't the fear of death, it's the fear i'm gonna be slammed with a 3 day ban for yeeting some kid who i didn't have rights on. Hopefully you can see the levels of abuse and that this is an unnaturally unfair advantage to the megaphone, as the fear is not your group's image, but the fear of a report. 

Either way, there are some situations where I think a megaphone is valuable and needed. I believe when a mass initiation happens through a megaphone it needs to be crystal clear who is initiating, i.e: if you're with the initiator you should be raising your gun to show your presence even if not the one speaking. The abuse largely comes through people having the potential to have like 5 inside men ready to gun down any non-compliant people. 

Objectively, yes, the megaphone is not unfair as everybody has access to one. However, it's thew subjective nature of all initiations (and the circumstances surrounding them) that makes it where an objective viewpoint doesn't work. A one size fits all kind of "everybody can use them" doesn't work here because initiations, and circumstantial situations, are always subjective. If i have a megaphone, I can't initiate back on the other person who initiated with a megaphone because I don't know who it is. This itself means the megaphones are not objectively fair because "everybody can use them". 

I'm on the fence about them honestly. If the scenario above happened to me, and somebody is bound to do it at some point, I wouldn't feel like it was fair. It is inherently an unfair advantage, and doesn't make me feel like "I lost because they had the upper hand", it makes me feel like "I lost because I physically had the rules conflicting with what I should do." <--- that causes awkwardness through roleplay, and nobody wants that.

Again, we're left with: is it correct to ban something due to the high potential of abuse? This is something that we all have differing views on.

Edited by Para

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@Para makes his posts too long but I agree with his point, being able to see your threat is only fair. Even if it isn't the initiator themselves, having some gents pointing weapons at your targets to show that the threat is real and present is only common sense if you want to ensure compliance, as well as fair play.

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1 minute ago, Elmo said:

@Para makes his posts too long but I agree with his point, being able to see your threat is only fair. Even if it isn't the initiator themselves, having some gents pointing weapons at your targets to show that the threat is real and present is only common sense if you want to ensure compliance, as well as fair play.

I mean, Para essentially wrote what I said. But better. Haha. ? --- It's all about fair play, and good ol' roleplay fun around here... it's what the community stands for... ?

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1 minute ago, CamoRP said:

I mean, Para essentially wrote what I said. But better. Haha. ? --- It's all about fair play, and good ol' roleplay fun around here... it's what the community stands for... ?

That's what happens when he makes long posts to get beans, he knows mini essays are dazzling.

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8 hours ago, Para said:

 

How else am I supposed to safely R O L E P L A Y at unsuspecting bystanders without dying tho?

edit for no /yeet

What I am trying to say in literal terms here for those that can't get sarcasm is that while I understand Elmo's argument I disagree and think that people who are as trash tier as I at PVP should get their grubby little hands on any advantage they can get.

Edited by Jasper

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48 minutes ago, Jasper said:

How else am I supposed to safely R O L E P L A Y at unsuspecting bystanders without dying tho?

Initiate within a reasonable visible sight, or rooftop of a building overlooking who you're initiating upon. As well as have a couple other friends ready to take aim, to assist you. 

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I feel like initiating in or out of sight with a megaphone is awesome. Personally I like the megaphone for this reason because of the fact VOIP range cuts off at a certain point.

I’ve seen people put their hands up and I wonder why. So the megaphone is great help. Especially if you’re a big group in a field, basically you’re screwed cause you don’t know where it is coming from.

only problem I have is if that person meant to do it for one group and another gets mistaken and massacres them... or when people hide in the woods at GM and do it as a joke -_-

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I remember the test we've done and the megaphone could be clearly heard from ~400 m (straight direction of speaking). So yeah, I can't even see that far IG and it can make things very confusing if the initiation isn't precise enought with stating the target of initiation and the demands. It's a great tool that can help with initation but also it could be abused and/or used in a trolly way.

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7 hours ago, Jasper said:

How else am I supposed to safely R O L E P L A Y at unsuspecting bystanders without dying tho?

- User have been warned for this post -

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