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Roland

Amnesty

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5 minutes ago, Descendants said:

He is saying that everyone regardless of their ban reasoning is eligible to apply. Doesnt mean at all that they will be accepted

Doesn't make sense to me, why allow people to put in appeal for amnesty if they don't even meet the criteria. Ignore it and move on, wastes less time and illegible people are less likely to send one in as a result.

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15 minutes ago, gElmo said:

Doesn't make sense to me, why allow people to put in appeal for amnesty if they don't even meet the criteria. Ignore it and move on, wastes less time and illegible people are less likely to send one in as a result.

idk more work for staff I guess *shrug* 

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11 minutes ago, Descendants said:

idk more work for staff I guess *shrug* 

Glad we agree there's an element of confusion there, its not just myself ? 

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I simply believe this to be a bad idea. I have no problems following rules, other people get banned for breaking rules and now they get a second chance as long as they pay money... annoying is the only word I have for that.

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I thought amnesty was a bad idea, but I honestly have no qualms with this system. Good job

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Wow, I am surprised Rolle caved on this. Seemed like there was no chance of something like this after the last attempt. Can't wait to see some of those old names come back! Seems like a welcome change.

+1

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6 minutes ago, Chief said:

Wow, I am surprised Rolle caved on this. Seemed like there was no chance of something like this after the last attempt. Can't wait to see some of those old names come back! Seems like a welcome change.

+1

#SaveRoger

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1 minute ago, The Marshal said:

#SaveRoger

That won't happen lets be honest.

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2 minutes ago, Chief said:

That won't happen lets be honest.

Yeh

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12 hours ago, gJadeboat said:

Are people from the tendies ban able to appeal?

None of them are coming back. I don't see why anyone would pay to come back to a place they have been ostracized and exiled from.

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46 minutes ago, KpopKilla said:

None of them are coming back. I don't see why anyone would pay to come back to a place they have been ostracized and exiled from.

There's been a few I know of who said they wouldn't mind coming back but I doubt they'd pay for it if given the chance :<

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53 minutes ago, KpopKilla said:

None of them are coming back. I don't see why anyone would pay to come back to a place they have been ostracized and exiled from.

None of whom? Because this offer is not directed at any particular group of bans or rule breaks, it's for all banned players, those who were banned 5 years ago in mod for KoSing someone as well as those banned 1 year ago from exceeding 30 points for flaming or that random guy nobody knows who got banned for copy-pasting a story during whitelist in 2014. Thinking that this amnesty is directed or specifically created for some particular group of your banned friends that we desperately want back is very pompous.

And that's fine if "they" don't, it's their choice, it's an offer. Nobody has to take it and for us nothing will change if they don't, we have plenty of both new and old non-banned players as it is. This amnesty is not a move to try and unban as many people as possible because we are hurting for active players on our servers and we want to flood the server population with ex-banned members to get the server full again at any cost. It is a goodwill gesture from my side to give some "not-so-bad" people another chance in a way that does not put the existing playerbase at risk, after they have been banned for a significant time. It's done specifically now because we are moving into new phase of Standalone gameplay with beta and custom servers and I know a lot of players will be willing to come back to DayZ in this new version. I could've just as likely kept the "insta deny all appeals for permanent bans" policy that we've had for the last year or so, but Burgz thread gave me an idea how to create a secure amnesty process that you now see and a lot of people were positive about it.

If banned players refuse to take the offer because of the collateral involved which is needed to avoid putting the existing community at a large risk of sabotage, it's their loss - we as a community didn't gain or lose anything from them refusing to take the offer - it's just as if we kept the aforementioned policy and continued to deny all perma appeals. Status quo is maintained. Those who do take the offer can enjoy being given a chance role playing here and if we gain some good RPers from it in the process, we all win. If people choose to believe the requirement for collateral payment is a cash grab that I intend to get rich from, that's fine too, you can choose to believe whatever you like. I have said what it's for and why it's needed, how without it the risks are too high to allow for any kind of amnesty or why the payment cannot be returned as cash. But I realize that the more controversial conspiracy theories are more exciting ? 

It's worth noting that we already have 8 appeals submitted, so there seems to be some interest at least. We shall evaluate the candidates within the admin team and monitor progress of the amnesty carefully, so that if there are any new risk areas or certain restrictions are not needed based on experience with previous candidates, we will modify the amnesty process accordingly.

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I know its been brought up about bohemia but by paying to play, should the banned user get banned a second time does this not go against trading standards laws meaning the individual could sue this community due to not recieving what they payed for?

Ive been thinking this for a while even with simple things like paying for forum content, afterall these payments have now been deemed to not be a donation and thus they have been taxed meaning any payments to this site must follow trading rights laws.. maybe its something worth looking into before it gets to a stage someone has balls and the community needs to pay for a lawyer.

 

Better call saul! ?

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4 minutes ago, Voodoo said:

I know its been brought up about bohemia but by paying to play, should the banned user get banned a second time does this not go against trading standards laws meaning the individual could sue this community due to not recieving what they payed for?

Ive been thinking this for a while even with simple things like paying for forum content, afterall these payments have now been deemed to not be a donation and thus they have been taxed meaning any payments to this site must follow trading rights laws.. maybe its something worth looking into before it gets to a stage someone has balls and the community needs to pay for a lawyer.

Better call saul! ?

I'm not sure what you mean, what are "trading laws"? Do you mean all game companies like Valve or Blizzard are illegally restricting players from playing the games the player paid for by banning them or issuing VACs after a player was caught breaking the games rules or ToS?

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26 minutes ago, Roland said:

I'm not sure what you mean, what are "trading laws"? Do you mean all game companies like Valve or Blizzard are illegally restricting players from playing the games the player paid for by banning them or issuing VACs after a player was caught breaking the games rules or ToS?

I think he is referring to the current issue with the Arma series where many lawsuits have been filed for violating Bohemias ToS.

Essentially, if you donate and get ingame perks that are tied to Arma (Vehicles, Clothes, Guns and also InfiStar, although that is their ToS you'd be violating.)
It's generally a pretty big topic at the moment since many communities get away with it.

 

What I think Voodoo was trying to say is "Please be careful and look into this."

You had issues with the Swedish Tax Service in the past, so it wouldn't surprise me if someone was denied amnesty they'd try to get you in trouble for placing a paywall on the ban appeal.

 

I'm not at all against the paywall.
But I think it needs to be stated that the paywall is access to the "Community." and not to the gameserver specifically.
The gameserver is simply a bi-product of being part of the Community.

 

 

But who knows maybe I'm over thinking this, probably due to lack of sleep and too much caffeine.

Edited by Ducky

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2 minutes ago, Ducky said:

Essentially, if you donate and get ingame perks that are tied to Arma (Vehicles, Clothes, Guns and also InfiStar, although that is their ToS you'd be violating.)
It's generally a pretty big topic at the moment since many communities get away with it.

I have not heard anything about it, I will Google, but it sounds completely ridiculous. Also we don't sell any in game perks, but rather only website ones aka "colorful names", so that may not apply to us.

 

5 minutes ago, Ducky said:

What I think Voodoo was trying to say is "Please be careful and look into this."

You had issues with the Swedish Tax Service in the past, so it wouldn't surprise me if someone was denied amnesty they'd try to get you in trouble for placing a paywall on the ban appeal.

Oh absolutely, I know he's just looking out for me. It just sounded so strange I couldn't believe it at first.

 

3 minutes ago, Ducky said:

But I think it needs to be stated that the paywall is access to the "Community." and not to the gamserver specifically.

Yeah, I did state that on the very first point of the terms and conditions of the amnesty:

Quote

The digital service offered is a one time removal of ban and blacklist for a single account on DayZRP.com community website.

 

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1 hour ago, Roland said:

I'm not sure what you mean, what are "trading laws"? Do you mean all game companies like Valve or Blizzard are illegally restricting players from playing the games the player paid for by banning them or issuing VACs after a player was caught breaking the games rules or ToS?

Issue is ToS for the companies you have listed have 100% been looked into by a solicitor to make sure everything in writing is completly solid with no grey areas. Can you say that the rules for this community and its ToS have been looked into by a legal professional?

Currently the gaming market is in bad press and its getting worse (Skin gambling on Csgo, loot boxes on battlefront etc.) last thing this community would need is legal action because of things not set in stone. 

Lets say the unbanned pay up, they get banned because of something deemed illigitimate to this communities ToS (and dont deny it hasnt happened weve seen people banned that werent even on a final or had any points on record simply because they followed and posted a picture of a chicken nugget... or got under staff members skin abit) they could then bring this up and even go through bohemia. Bohemia could then take this issue up and demonitise us or worse close us down.

Anything this sensitive really needs to be looked at by a legal representative. When i was made redundant from my job over 3 years ago i had to go through a solicitor to make sure my contract was being followed and noone was being ripped off. By signing up to this community we digitally put our signature against the rules and ToS. With each change made it practically nullifies that contract that was signed, for instance i could still be covered under the 2013 rules and ToS (dunno if it would be seen like that but its a situation that needs to be tred lightly). Is this community covered under sweedish law? Or can someone use their own countries law that may go against sweedish law for instance.

If this community is now classed as a business with paying tax then law comes into it like in any business. Are you meant to be paying a pension to staff? ?

Basically to sum it up, when it comes to money (and you know this first hand with the tax stitch up) you really need to watch your back and the companies you own. This isnt simply something you can “wing it” with. One wrong move and the courts can completly destroy you. 

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48 minutes ago, Voodoo said:

Issue is ToS for the companies you have listed have 100% been looked into by a solicitor to make sure everything in writing is completly solid with no grey areas. Can you say that the rules for this community and its ToS have been looked into by a legal professional?

Currently the gaming market is in bad press and its getting worse (Skin gambling on Csgo, loot boxes on battlefront etc.) last thing this community would need is legal action because of things not set in stone. 

Lets say the unbanned pay up, they get banned because of something deemed illigitimate to this communities ToS (and dont deny it hasnt happened weve seen people banned that werent even on a final or had any points on record simply because they followed and posted a picture of a chicken nugget... or got under staff members skin abit) they could then bring this up and even go through bohemia. Bohemia could then take this issue up and demonitise us or worse close us down.

Anything this sensitive really needs to be looked at by a legal representative. When i was made redundant from my job over 3 years ago i had to go through a solicitor to make sure my contract was being followed and noone was being ripped off. By signing up to this community we digitally put our signature against the rules and ToS. With each change made it practically nullifies that contract that was signed, for instance i could still be covered under the 2013 rules and ToS (dunno if it would be seen like that but its a situation that needs to be tred lightly). Is this community covered under sweedish law? Or can someone use their own countries law that may go against sweedish law for instance.

If this community is now classed as a business with paying tax then law comes into it like in any business. Are you meant to be paying a pension to staff? ?

Basically to sum it up, when it comes to money (and you know this first hand with the tax stitch up) you really need to watch your back and the companies you own. This isnt simply something you can “wing it” with. One wrong move and the courts can completly destroy you. 

I understand your concerns, however this is a business in terms of "one man company with a site on Internet selling colorful names for a few hundred euros every month", not a "multi million dollar global corporation with hundreds of employees". Both are businesses in legal terms, however one is allowed way more leniency than other. A pizzeria run just by the owner in a small town and making enough just to barely make ends meet will not be put to the same scrutiny as McDonalds who make billions of dollars in revenue.

That's one thing, the other major thing is - we simply cannot afford legal help due to the size and income of this community. I try my best for the site to meet all legal requirements, but it's no secret that we have no massive disclaimers and what not like Valve or Blizzard. I write all the policies, and do book keeping, invoicing, VAT, payments and what not all by myself. If I had to hire a corporate lawyer to do a thorough check or an accountant to do the book keeping for me there would be no money left. In fact, I'd probably go negative.

In any case, I am quite confident that this will work just fine because:

  1. We only sell non tangible digital items for use on the community website, which I am the sole owner of, thus not breaking any 3rd party ToS. The website is our own product. I'm selling pixels and access to this website. Registration is free and you are not signing any contract with me when registering where I would be liable to deliver or provide anything at all.
  2. PayPal will offer us seller protection on digital goods with the terms and conditions we have declared on the amnesty page, as the service is immediately delivered after payment is complete.
  3. We've done it in the past on a much, much larger scale (whitelist open only for Premium users during 2013 and 2016 player waves, hundreds of players bought Donor to be able to whitelist) and there were no issues
  4. Even if someone would somehow make the connection that access to the site = access to the servers, Bohemias monetization policy allows for paid restricted access to their games and we are approved for monetization
  5. As the company and me who solely own and represent it are located in Sweden, it has to follow Swedish laws. Förenklat tvistemål would be used if someone tried to sue us for the 25€. This would mean they would have to pay their own legal costs even if they won, which would vastly overshadow the 25€ they are fighting. Which leads to...
  6. No lawyer will pick up a case worth 25€. Worst case someone will do PayPal dispute, which we will win - see point 2.

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5 hours ago, Roland said:

I understand your concerns, however this is a business in terms of "one man company with a site on Internet selling colorful names for a few hundred euros every month", not a "multi million dollar global corporation with hundreds of employees". Both are businesses in legal terms, however one is allowed way more leniency than other. A pizzeria run just by the owner in a small town and making enough just to barely make ends meet will not be put to the same scrutiny as McDonalds who make billions of dollars in revenue.

That's one thing, the other major thing is - we simply cannot afford legal help due to the size and income of this community. I try my best for the site to meet all legal requirements, but it's no secret that we have no massive disclaimers and what not like Valve or Blizzard. I write all the policies, and do book keeping, invoicing, VAT, payments and what not all by myself. If I had to hire a corporate lawyer to do a thorough check or an accountant to do the book keeping for me there would be no money left. In fact, I'd probably go negative.

In any case, I am quite confident that this will work just fine because:

  1. We only sell non tangible digital items for use on the community website, which I am the sole owner of, thus not breaking any 3rd party ToS. The website is our own product. I'm selling pixels and access to this website. Registration is free and you are not signing any contract with me when registering where I would be liable to deliver or provide anything at all.
  2. PayPal will offer us seller protection on digital goods with the terms and conditions we have declared on the amnesty page, as the service is immediately delivered after payment is complete.
  3. We've done it in the past on a much, much larger scale (whitelist open only for Premium users during 2013 and 2016 player waves, hundreds of players bought Donor to be able to whitelist) and there were no issues
  4. Even if someone would somehow make the connection that access to the site = access to the servers, Bohemias monetization policy allows for paid restricted access to their games and we are approved for monetization
  5. As the company and me who solely own and represent it are located in Sweden, it has to follow Swedish laws. Förenklat tvistemål would be used if someone tried to sue us for the 25€. This would mean they would have to pay their own legal costs even if they won, which would vastly overshadow the 25€ they are fighting. Which leads to...
  6. No lawyer will pick up a case worth 25€. Worst case someone will do PayPal dispute, which we will win - see point 2.

Well if you can guarantee that this community will be in safe standing then you have my backing with this amnesty ?

May I just suggest that the final warning imposed on these members gets a fixed sentence? Maybe final warning for 3-6 months? 

I know it sounds lenient but if we win back their confidence in the community again it could drastically increase our numbers on the server through newer members seeing that we are once again a huge server of DayZ. Lets do the right thing and make this place as big, if not bigger than it was before.

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11 hours ago, Chief said:

That won't happen lets be honest.

i swear roger didn't do anything drastic when he suicide-bombed but i could be wrong

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10 minutes ago, Melvin said:

 

Lmao I don’t think Roger would give 25 to this place 

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4 hours ago, Melvin said:

i swear roger didn't do anything drastic when he suicide-bombed but i could be wrong

not THAT roger, somebody else. No, I know he won't ever come back here.

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