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Server time: 2018-10-22, 04:41 WE ARE RECRUITING
Burgz

Mass-unban and a separate whitelist for Mod.

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Operation Rejuvenation

Now pls hear me out.

Why not set up a separate whitelist for the DayZ Mod, all of those who are whitelisted for standalone etc already can automatically be whitelisted and then allow old perma'd players to rejoin the mod server and whitelist for that only. I guess lets maybe not let people back who were racist/or committed any sort of offence that could genuinely cause some real-world issues.

Some of the players that have been banned from this website/server have been banned for 3/4/5 years! That is crazy. You can literally get less time for kidnapping or assault.

That way we can really start to see some population back on at least one of the servers here and then, best case scenario, some of those who were banned before are able to reintegrate back into the community and join the other servers. Think of it as kinda like a probation. 

Normal rules apply of course and they can be banned/warned for any normal rulebreaks etc. Maybe even a final warning type thing.

 

Worst case scenario? Every single unbanned person, is needed to be banned again. But let's be honest it ain't gonna happen, and at least there'd be some activity on the forums/in game. 

 

Imagine if this was done, and it worked, the positive effects for the community. Their punishment would have worked, the way punishment is supposed to work in the real world. Reformation and rehabilitation. The server has a healthy dose of new activity both in game and the forums and begins to thrive again. I don't expect this to be easy, or even work quickly but I think with time, the positives will definitely outshine the negatives.

Edited by Burgz

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I can sum this up pretty simple. The phrase we use when removing someone from the community is, "Permaban" which is a shortened way of saying "Permanent banishment"

In short it means that if you obtain a permaban then you are Forever banned from the community. Not temporarily, not for a year or two but..... Forever. I can understand that it looks a bit harsh for a gaming community revolved around a dead/dying game, But In my opinion we should keep it as such. "Permaban"

Edited by Ender

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Just now, Ender said:

I can sum this up pretty simple. The phrase we use when removing someone from the community is, "Permaban" which is a shortened way of saying "Permanent banishment"

In short it means that if you obtain a permaban then you are Forever banned from the community. Not temporarily, not for a year or two but..... Forever. I can understand that is looks a bit harsh for a gaming community revolved around a dead/dying game, But In my opinion we should keep it as such. "Permaban"

That's basically capital punishment bro, being as that's the most severe, maybe this whole time perma bans have been handed out too easily, I dunno. However, I do know that it would spark the player base up.

Just an F.Y.I, multiple perma bans have been revoked in the past regardless, so as a system the staff team ain't holding true to that.

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1 minute ago, Ender said:

I can sum this up pretty simple. The phrase we use when removing someone from the community is, "Permaban" which is a shortened way of saying "Permanent banishment"

In short it means that if you obtain a permaban then you are Forever banned from the community. Not temporarily, not for a year or two but..... Forever. I can understand that is looks a bit harsh for a gaming community revolved around a dead/dying game, But In my opinion we should keep it as such. "Permaban"

Yes, but people who have been permanently ban before have been Unban and worked out like Jerry.

I believe this will bring back loads of people to play on this community again and it could help with DayZSA if it comes out of development a decent game. But if you don't look into unbanning people I can't see this dying community working out and completely dying. 

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Many have brought this up but it has always been shut down so this thread won't really go that far unless you change @Roland mind.

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Perma ban= forever 

I would know I've been perma'd twice....

Honestly if people want to come back let 'em, most wont, but the ones that do probably care enough to follow the rules and what not.

As Birdguy said its all up to @Roland doe.

Edited by Ghost Of Pado
english is not my friend

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I'd prefer if permanent bans remained permanent, not out of any malice or disdain for any permabanned person, but moreso for the fact that, if you revoke legitimate permanent bans willy-nilly they will start to lose their power. Like most people say, this is just the internet which limits the power of the staff team to adequately punish repeat rulebreakers if they do not care about the points system. Permanence is a guarantee, not always in DayZRP's case as there have been exceptions to the rule, but the exceptions should be made for extraordinary circumstances only and not to bring popularity back to a game because we need players. Mass-unbanning players weakens the permanent ban to another ban with a greater potential for an expiry date.

Edited by gElmo

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1 minute ago, gElmo said:

I'd prefer if permanent bans remained permanent, not out of any malice or disdain for any permabanned person, but moreso for the fact that, if you revoke permanent bans willy-nilly they will start to lose their power. Like most people say, this is just the internet which limits the power of the staff team to adequately punish repeat rulebreakers if they do not care about the points system. Permanence is a guarantee, not always in DayZRP's case as there have been exceptions to the rule, but the exceptions should be made for extraordinary circumstances only and not to bring popularity back to a game because we need players. Mass-unbanning players weakens the permanent ban to another ban with a greater potential for an expiry date.

They are just doing it willy nilly..... How can they lose there power? They fuck up again bye bye, simples.. 

We are just giving our opinion on how the state of this community is, it once had 4/5 servers full or at least two full servers. But now and for a good year it has been empty and going down hill and very fast. Bringing back people who would have matured by now and giving them another chance would help the community get back. But if not it will just die out and become empty like the route its going in.

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5 minutes ago, gElmo said:

Mass-unbanning players weakens the permanent ban to another ban with a greater potential for an expiry date.

It doesn't, cus they won't need to do a mass un-ban again will they? Lol. As the community begins to thrive with god knows how many more players etc. SA may finally become a playable game (tm) and then it will snowball until it's massive and wonderful again.

15 minutes ago, Eagle said:

Many have brought this up but it has always been shut down so this thread won't really go that far unless you change @Roland mind.

I've seen slightly similar ideas brought up, but nothing quite like what I've suggested here. 

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Just now, Chappers said:

They are just doing it willy nilly..... How can they lose there power? They fuck up again bye bye, simples.. 

Perhaps I'm out of the loop as I haven't seen any numbers for the amount of permanently banned players who have been unbanned compared against permanently banned players who have remained banned after an appeal; but, off the top of my head, I can't think of anybody I know personally that has been legitimately banned and unbanned again.

As for how they could lose their power, I explained that already, the power of a permanent ban lies in permanence. The moment you revoke a permanent ban and the more often you do it, the less threatening the supposed permanence seems.

1 minute ago, Burgz said:

It doesn't, cus they won't need to do a mass un-ban again will they? Lol.

See above answer.

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3 minutes ago, gElmo said:

Perhaps I'm out of the loop as I haven't seen any numbers for the amount of permanently banned players who have been unbanned compared against permanently banned players who have remained banned after an appeal; but, off the top of my head, I can't think of anybody I know personally that has been legitimately banned and unbanned again.

It's probably less than 5% taking into account all alt-accounts etc. but that's not the point. If it's even one legitimate ban that's revoked, then the message is still the same. This ban is not permanent. This could also be the turning point. If they were to perform this mass-unban, they could now make all bans totally permanent. Unless a case of mistaken identity or what-not, but completely permanent. 

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I've got friends that I met in this community that got banned and I'm still in touch with some of them, however to overturn all permabans is counterproductive considering how some of them decided to burn their bridges.

I've said it before that some of those that got permabanned were given another chance here and got banned again (I know some worked out) then they went to other communities and got banned there as well. I'd love to seem some people be un-banned but where do you draw the line? You either un-ban everyone or none of them and I'm all for second chances but to be honest how some people went out, I'm sorry I don't think I'd want them back here.

It might have been years ago etc. but for some of those banned getting older is not and indication of maturity. It's not difficult, follow the rules and you get to stay in the community, think you're above them or that they don't apply to you then well you know how that ends.

A mass un-ban is either for everyone or it isn't going to happen. Like I said, for some people how they decided to cheque out I cannot see it happening.

 

Edited by Samaritan

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2 minutes ago, Samaritan said:

-snip

 

"I guess lets maybe not let people back who were racist/or committed any sort of offence that could genuinely cause some real-world issues."

I didn't say 'everyone' 😉

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Whats the benefit of having a separate whitelist? It's the same lore and the same rules? 

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1 minute ago, Burgz said:

If it's even one legitimate ban that's revoked, then the message is still the same. This ban is not permanent. 

I agree, the status of the permanent ban is already weakened due to legitimate permanent ban appeals being accepted in the past. I've no qualms over the who/why it was accepted, just the reality that punishment is less effective as a result. The unbanned folks might be stand up people who made silly mistakes and got banned, I know I definitely toed the line for a while with my poor behaviour towards staff and other community members, however I still firmly believe that a mass unban would be far more damaging to the status of a permanent ban than the individual exceptions would be.

3 minutes ago, Burgz said:

If they were to perform this mass-unban, they could now make all bans totally permanent. 

More permanent than they were before? I don't believe that would likely last for long, somebody would get banned again, legitimately or otherwise, and then they'd be unbanned and so on and so forth.

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Too much work and Rolle will never get along with the idea. Was talk a year or two ago about it but the idea never took off. Just gotta wheel and deal my friend.

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9 minutes ago, Jamie said:

Whats the benefit of having a separate whitelist? It's the same lore and the same rules? 

Like with the whole 'probation' idea I was suggesting. This community will move forward via standalone, let's not pretend here. The mod server, is unimportant from a leadership perspective, however Rollo etc. has obviously introduced it to try and boost player counts and activity. Therefore, actual new players who are joining to continue with the server can experience SA and be unaffected by the possible negative outcomes on the mod server that this unbanning could create.

EDIT:

In turn obviously, these old unbanned players can be reintroduced to the other servers be it by in game time, good roleplay/behaviour etc. whatever, the same rules as a final warning I guess.

Make sense at all? I think it does lol.

7 minutes ago, gElmo said:

More permanent than they were before? I don't believe that would likely last for long, somebody would get banned again, legitimately or otherwise, and then they'd be unbanned and so on and so forth.

But they shouldn't be, I'm saying what you're saying my friend. They've already crossed that bridge, probably in the first year the community was built. This is the end all plan. Last ditch attempt.

Operation rejuvenation baby.

Edited by Burgz

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Most wouldn't come back, and "permanent bans" aren't really that permanent. I've been permed twice as well and I'm still here and not causing any shit with anyone.

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5 minutes ago, Burgz said:

Like with the whole 'probation' idea I was suggesting. This community will move forward via standalone, let's not pretend here. The mod server, is unimportant from a leadership perspective, however Rollo etc. has obviously introduced it to try and boost player counts and activity. Therefore, actual new players who are joining to continue with the server can experience SA and be unaffected by the possible negative outcomes on the mod server that this unbanning could create. 

Make sense at all? I think it does lol.

I see the point.  But, the rules get enforced differently over time and sometimes things become stricter whilst other things become more lenient. Before, Rolle was lenient and decided to let a load of people back. A majority of them got themselves permed again AFAIK and he has decided that permanent bans are now permanent and nobody receives a second chance. 

And if people want to come to play the Arma 2 server, then they go through the standard whitelist which grants them rights to play on all our servers. If we had a separate whitelist for the permed players, they would still have access to the forums, teamspeak ETC. Why take the risk of possible negative outcomes that can ruin the experience for normal players that want to just have fun? I don't mean to sound like a cunt because I agree that some players received a perm for silly things but we need to have a standard that applies to everyone. The best they can do is wait a few months/year and try and appeal it down the line when things may become more lenient. 

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3 minutes ago, Burgz said:

But they shouldn't be, I'm saying what you're saying my friend. They've already crossed that bridge, probably in the first year the community was built. This is the end all plan. Last ditch attempt.

Operation rejuvenation baby.

You agree with me on the status of permanent bans being weakened, that's true, however we've got different conclusions on how to approach that. I respect your opinion but also must respectfully disagree. Thanks for your responses 🙂 

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Im conflicted with this, if its been years and their offences have been varied from acting immature, toxic and trolling then sure.

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Just now, Jamie said:

And if people want to come to play the Arma 2 server, then they go through the standard whitelist which grants them rights to play on all our servers. If we had a separate whitelist for the permed players, they would still have access to the forums, teamspeak ETC. Why take the risk of possible negative outcomes that can ruin the experience for normal players that want to just have fun? I don't mean to sound like a cunt because I agree that some players received a perm for silly things but we need to have a standard that applies to everyone. The best they can do is wait a few months/year and try and appeal it down the line when things may become more lenient. 

I may have explained it wrong slightly, the separate white-list would be for the ex-banned players only, normal whitelists would obviously have access to whatever they want. As for the forums, there is a whole staff team like yourself ready to moderate them, it's a lot easier that shielding people from bad experiences in game wouldn't you agree?

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1 minute ago, Burgz said:

"I guess lets maybe not let people back who were racist/or committed any sort of offence that could genuinely cause some real-world issues."

I didn't say 'everyone' 😉

I know, I did read what you said and I agree with that sentence if by some miracle it actually happened. However, that would be your line but for others their line would be different. Like I said who decides where is the line is drawn. Also it's going to be a huge amount of work to individually go through each permaban and discuss the pros and cons of letting them return to the community. It's all or none and I cannot see that happening.

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1 minute ago, Samaritan said:

I know, I did read what you said and I agree with that sentence if by some miracle it actually happened. However, that would be your line but for others their line would be different. Like I said who decides where is the line is drawn. Also it's going to be a huge amount of work to individually go through each permaban and discuss the pros and cons of letting them return to the community. It's all or none and I cannot see that happening.

I doubt there's much work to do for the staff team with both servers being basically ghost-towns? 😉

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no

If we unban every single person, and then have to reban them, i don't think you understand just how many RP interactions could be ruined. That could literally be 100s of people given the chance to go on a mass KoS spree for the luls.

Mass unban: Hell nah. 

Unban based on what they were actually banned for at admin discretion: Hell yeah.

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