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Server time: 2018-08-16, 12:33

Reaper

Bring back Dynamic groups with limitations

Bring back Dynamic groups   

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Posted (edited)

I Know this may have been asked before, but I have noticed that there has been a lot of people still not liking the no Dynamic group rule, understand why they did this and change to no dynamics, but I would like to know if people would like it to come back.

Edited by Reaper

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What would be the limitations?

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Just now, Terra said:

What would be the limitations?

only have defensive kill rights aspect and only groups who are in the group ideas I did do I poll but it's not showing up.

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Honestly if you went strictly with defensive rights I worry that it would encourage baiting like behavior where two dynamic groups just antagonize one another hoping the other would initiate. 

 

As I see it though the large problem with the removal of dynamic rights has little to do with gaining kos rights as a group, but rather with identifying targets in a firefight, especially in regards to larger firefights where multiple groups may be working together (ie the coalition a couple months back), but only some of said groups may have granted their enemy kos rights despite actively running with those that do.

 

Using the example of the coalition, I had managed during an event (the pilots one) to put myself in a situation where I could have utilized kos rights on a group of people yet had no clue who, in said group, I had kos rights on. Later in the situation another one of my members was reported for using his kos rights on a participant in the fight, with that person claiming his friends never participated in the hostilities despite running with (ie helping escort the hostages) those that were actively engaged. 

 

These kind of situations become overly convoluted and often lead to confusion as to who has initiated on who, especially as things continue to escalate, and honestly show why, in my opinion, dynamic rights should be reinstated as they were, especially as .63 approaches potentially bringing both a influx of new players who may be discouraged by confusion on new rules (or getting banned as a result of them) and old players who won't expect such a controversial change in the rules. 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Zanaan said:

Honestly if you went strictly with defensive rights I worry that it would encourage baiting like behavior where two dynamic groups just antagonize one another hoping the other would initiate. 

I see your point but it still happens now with official groups also only the ones in group ideas, not just random so what I'm saying is you can only be a dynamic if you have a group idea in place and on the forums

Edited by Reaper

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As @Zaanan said, it just encourages baiting. Personally I think the old dynamic kill rights should be brought back, brings back the fear in initiating and hostilities.

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Posted (edited)

The whole argument that defensive rights are better is simply not true, either bring the olds once back or none at all no need to complicate things even further.

Edited by Eagle

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Just now, Eagle said:

The whole argument that defensive rights are not better at all, either bring the olds once back or none at all no need to complicate things even further.

Pretty much this, but seeing as numerous threads have been shot down it's not happening.

Voted no due to there being nothing but confusion coming from defensive rights only, plus with the amount of baiting that occurs as is, it's not worth the damage that'll come from it.

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just have them come back. They were pretty much never abused, and as can be seen from my last report, the new rules cause a million problems. Just let people rp in dynamics without insane limitations. 

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+1 yes current rule dosent make sense. 

@Roland werent we suposse to have a test run for 3 months? And then se how it went

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I remember rolle saying something along the lines of, you're just mad because you don't like the new rule, we've made controversial rule changes before that are just the norm now, i.e. char names in game.

Well It's been quite a while now and I think we can all agree that it isn't working, in your attempt to rid of confusion you've just created more. 

1465886945312059.gif

 

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36 minutes ago, UndeadRP said:

just have them come back. They were pretty much never abused, and as can be seen from my last report, the new rules cause a million problems. Just let people rp in dynamics without insane limitations. 

Amen. Pretty much agree with that. 

Bring them back. 

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I mean, I agree as is it's hard for emerging hostile groups to get any kind of foothold until they are made official which can sometimes take up to two weeks. I agree that it COULD be used for baiting but people already bait. IMO bring back old dynamic groups and be done with it. Sadly though, I doubt we'll ever see them return.

 

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From my time and experience in DayZRP I've never seen Dynamics abused to the extent that it became a problem and I honestly think they need to be brought back. I also don't believe running into someone and wandering around for one day together should count as being a Dynamic group, but that would be a bit hard to prove when it comes to reports. If anything defense rights should be in place for Dynamics as it was seen in the most recent report how much of a mess and confusion it can get when your friends (group) is getting shot at. 

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2 minutes ago, Clumsy said:

also don't believe running into someone and wandering around for one day together should count as being a Dynamic group,

So they should just use groups in ideas only and just give them Defensive only till they become official, I know there is a lot out there who don't want that, or just think it will bring more baiting, but official groups have and will do that anyway bait will never go away no matter what.

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I disagree with bringing them back with limitations. Either bring them back as they were or don't bring them back at all. 

Bringing them back with MORE limitations is not only complicated, but unnecessary too.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Reaper said:

So they should just use groups in ideas only and just give them Defensive only till they become official, I know there is a lot out there who don't want that, or just think it will bring more baiting, but official groups have and will do that anyway bait will never go away no matter what.

As I said after that quote, that part would be hard to prove, so it would make no sense to set that limitation. When it comes to traveling around with people it's so awkward getting into a hostile situation and having that person be initiated on and or shot and you not able to do anything but either stand there and watch or raise your gun to re initiation which would basically mean you'd most likely be dead before you get the initiation out. As for the baiting,  I've had groups of people who weren't in group ideas try to bait, I've had people who have been group ideas try to bait, and I've had official groups bait with the new rules. The removal of dynamics has caused more confusion lately and I've seen more events of RDM and invalid Kills than I've ever seen of Baiting.

(Also sorry if this sound a bit jumbled, running on 3 hours of sleep due to my 1 year old lol)

Edited by Clumsy

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6 minutes ago, Clumsy said:

The removal of dynamics has caused more confusion lately and I've seen more events of RDM and invalid Kills than I've ever seen of Baiting.

hit the nail on the head 

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It would be nice to have them back just due to rolling with your friends that are not in a group I could protect them then if I am in a group idea😉 

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I would love dynamics back. Never liked the old change and I want to protect my friends if we're playing.

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I've been against a complete removal of dynamics since it was brought up. If anything I was/am a supporter of the defensive sharing rights system. However, I do see why a change was necessary, dynamics were heavily abused and something had to be done. Was this the best option? Probably not but the current rule had back then the most support and was therefore implemented as a trial. 

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Spartan said:

dynamics were heavily abused and something had to be done.

 

Everyone seems to state that but I never saw this abuse.
People actually had to think before acting on hostilities, now they attack a guy wait for another initiation then another initiation. Someone who just shot your mate but you still have to initiate which makes no sense at all.

No dynamic rights just cause issues, confusion and random kills showcased in this report here.

Edited by Eagle

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To me, it makes no sense, realistically, for me to sit and watch my friends get gunned down and I can't do anything about it.

12 hours ago, Clumsy said:

The removal of dynamics has caused more confusion lately and I've seen more events of RDM and invalid Kills than I've ever seen of Baiting.

Just like what Clumsy said, it's caused more confusion in game, resulting in RDM's and other misc rule breaks. 

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I put other. I think dynamics should return with NO limitations. As is now, it's like this. Friend is held up by three plebs, I need to run up and yell at them some random initiation bs and then I get gassed because three v one. Or, the logical situation that is realistic where I gas all three the idiots who didn't see me behind them, or didn't know I was on a radio with him. This whole thing where dynamics don't exist is stupid, it ruins my RP, and surely several others, and just makes it impossible for the smaller groups of people who's groups GOD FORBID don't have some big story behind them and are just people trying to survive to even thrive i existence. Thought I may as well give my piece, even though no one will take it into account.

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