Jump to content
Server time (UTC): 2020-10-26, 20:57
Sign in to follow this  
JasonBR

Using kill rights = Ruleplay?

Recommended Posts

Now I want to say these few things before I start this discussion:

1: I couldn't think of a better title, so this one might be slightly misleading.

2: I did not know the person who was banned.

Now I'm discussing this report and specifcially the verdict. 

Spoiler

 

 

If you're not interested in reading the report, I'll summarize,

Two people were arguing and throwing insults in Vybor and one was eventually initiated on and was arrested by the "Police".

When the convict was released, he went and killed the man who initiated on him.

 

The verdict of the report was the convict being banned for "Ruleplay"

I felt this was interesting and wanted to discuss it (Not as a question really)

Basically, I feel that this was a weird verdict. Not to say it wasn't justified but it was strange.

Wouldn't this be a fair kill on the man? While yes, the convict could have continued RP, he decided to deal with the issue quickly when he had the chance and killed the man who initiated on him.

This just seems like that using KOS rights when not in a group fight is considered ruleplay.

What do you all think? (No Mem Plez)

Also the thread is now open to other report discussions

Edited by BSJasonGames

Share this post


Link to post

Despite having kill rights, not all kills are entirely valid to use. You've always got to weigh up why the kill rights were used, because the use of kill rights completely ends all possible rp between the two sides in that situation. 

In that situation, the guy who shot @G19RP did not lose anything other than a little bit of time, and being an asshole isn't really a justified use of gunning somebody down. Comparing the two, it's death v mean words. G19 purely initiated, leaving the cops to take him away. Surely that seems a bit disproportionate no?

Like i said, it's about weighing up why and how those kill rights were used. What it isn't, is ruleplay just because it's not a group fight. Ruleplay is something that comes up rarely, but it comes up usually when somebody just kills somebody simply because they 'can'  in that situation, their actions lack proper motive. Being held up and losing nothing means you lost time. Some harsh words? Well meet those harsh words with words back instead of just instantly using your kill rights. 

We're here for RP, not to just kill each other whenever we can. 

Hope this clears it up for you. 

Edited by Para

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, Para said:

Despite having kill rights, not all kills are entirely valid to use

Yeah pretty much that. If the kill is just being used for the sake of killing the person when more roleplay could be had, then it's ruleplay.

Share this post


Link to post

The main issue with the outcome of that situation is; stalking the man around and then shooting him in the head provided no RP for the victim. 

We're a RP Server, we want people to Role Play and engage verbally and textually (hehe) with each other. To stalk around and brood then use your Kill Rights to shoot your victim in the head without any interaction leaves the victim at a loss for RP and feeling jilted from the experience. Sure the person stalking may have had amazing internal self RP, but that only entertained him and no one else. 

He used his kill rights, which he rightfully had, but he chose his rights over Role Play. We expect all members to weigh options and then try and choose Role Play over Rule Play when it comes to interactions and Kill Rights. We understand not every situation can allow for Role Play to trump Kill Rights. In that situation he had many options, he could planned a kidnapping, hired help, lured the man out and initiated on him etc, but in the end chose to end all Role Play with his victim by shooting him dead when he wasn't even aware of what was happening.

I will quote this rule we have in place; 

Spoiler
  • 8.5 Kill rights are still subject to rule 5.2 and rule 5.3. You shouldn't use kill rights in situations where it doesn't make in-character sense as it can be seen as rule play and invalidate your use of kill rights. In other words, obtaining kill rights alone does not give you explicit permission to use them any time you want and in all situations. Think about if using kill rights is viable in the current situation.

 

Share this post


Link to post
18 minutes ago, Para said:

Being held up and losing nothing means you lost time. Some harsh words? Well meet those harsh words with words back instead of just instantly using your kill rights. 

Well the difference is he did use his words back, and in turn was initiated on.

I hate to bring up "In real life" but I don't see a better way of arguing this.

Realistically in a DayZ scenario, if someone is talking shit, they have a good chance of being met with bullets. While yes we have rules in place to prevent this, when the option is there to punish someone then It should be permitted to be exercised without risk of being banned.

Share this post


Link to post

A hostage punched a hostage taker in the face, and was gunned down for it.

The hostage taker was banned for ruleplay.

 

Morale of the story;

Your kill rights are only valid if the party is currently trying to kill you.

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, BSJasonGames said:

Well the difference is he did use his words back, and in turn was initiated on.

I hate to bring up "In real life" but I don't see a better way of arguing this.

Realistically in a DayZ scenario, if someone is talking shit, they have a good chance of being met with bullets. While yes we have rules in place to prevent this, when the option is there to punish someone then It should be permitted to be exercised without risk of being banned.

Realistically most people wouldn't gun somebody down for mere words. To take a life is a big deal, and alas, the realism argument is an irrelevant one because were playing a game, to have fun and RP. RP takes priority over both extreme realism and using kill rights. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, CaliforniaRP said:

A hostage punched a hostage taker in the face, and was gunned down for it.

The hostage taker was banned for ruleplay.

 

Morale of the story;

Your kill rights are only valid if the party is currently trying to kill you.

Link to the report if there is one?

Shit like that shouldn't happen.

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, BSJasonGames said:

 

Realistically in a DayZ scenario

Realistically in a DayZ scenario, I wouldn't have been initiated on. I'd have dropped the person instantly.

2 minutes ago, Para said:

Realistically most people wouldn't gun somebody down for mere words. To take a life is a big deal, and alas, the realism argument is an irrelevant one because were playing a game, to have fun and RP. RP takes priority over both extreme realism and using kill rights. 

 

^^^^^^^^^^^

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, BSJasonGames said:

Link to the report if there is one?

Shit like that shouldn't happen.

 

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, BSJasonGames said:

Link to the report if there is one?

Shit like that shouldn't happen.

Believe me, when you're gunned down for the slightest thing and think you were killed unfairly, you'll disagree. There's a time and a place to use kill rights. 

3 minutes ago, CaliforniaRP said:

A hostage punched a hostage taker in the face, and was gunned down for it.

The hostage taker was banned for ruleplay.

 

Morale of the story;

Your kill rights are only valid if the party is currently trying to kill you.

Also if you're referrin to this report the two don't match as he was hit with invalid kill. I'm assuming it's this one as it was your friend that was banned again, only in this case it was invalid kill, not ruleplay.

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, BSJasonGames said:

Link to the report if there is one?

Shit like that shouldn't happen.

i know the report he's referring to. he was banned because a punch in the arm, when surrounded by 4+ people with guns iirc, somehow justified a kill? it was IK not ruleplay iirc

edit: yes, that was the one

Edited by Whitename

Share this post


Link to post

Lets keep it focused on the original report please (although I am interested in the second one)

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, BSJasonGames said:

Lets keep it focused on the original report please (although I am interested in the second one)

I mean you specifically asked for the link to the report so we brought it up... as is shown here:

5 minutes ago, BSJasonGames said:

Link to the report if there is one?

Shit like that shouldn't happen.

We merely shut down that the two link to one another, which they don't. 

Share this post


Link to post
33 minutes ago, BSJasonGames said:

Now I want to say these few things before I start this discussion:

1: I couldn't think of a better title, so this one might be slightly misleading.

2: I did not know the person who was banned.

Now I'm discussing this report and specifcially the verdict. 

  Hide contents

 

 

If you're not interested in reading the report, I'll summarize,

Two people were arguing and throwing insults in Vybor and one was eventually initiated on and was arrested by the "Police".

When the convict was released, he went and killed the man who initiated on him.

 

The verdict of the report was the convict being banned for "Ruleplay"

I felt this was interesting and wanted to discuss it (Not as a question really)

Basically, I feel that this was a weird verdict. Not to say it wasn't justified but it was strange.

Wouldn't this be a fair kill on the man? While yes, the convict could have continued RP, he decided to deal with the issue quickly when he had the chance and killed the man who initiated on him.

This just seems like that using KOS rights when not in a group fight is considered ruleplay.

What do you all think? (No Mem Plez)

Anyways, addressing OP

The accused was handed over to the PD by G19, and ergo the situation involving G19 ended. Accused comes back later, exchanges maybe 3 insults with OP, and then:

Quote

run up behind him and viciously unloaded an entire magazine in him

As stated in OP. The roleplay from G19's perspective was: Hand a weird dude over to the PD, he comes back later and insults him, he insults back and then dies immediately. Simply not enough to justify using kill rights you gained from a previous situation, imo

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, Para said:

Believe me, when you're gunned down for the slightest thing and think you were killed unfairly, you'll disagree.

And I don't believe that he was killed unfairly considering he swung at his captor. Even if it was an arm shot, had he hit them in the head he could have been knocked out. If it had been a KO would he still have been hit with invalid kill?

1 minute ago, Para said:

We merely shut down that the two link to one another, which they don't. 

Sorry if this comes across as hostile but I asked for a link not a discussion. Probably should have PM'd for the link. My bad ?

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, BSJasonGames said:

And I don't believe that he was killed unfairly considering he swung at his captor. Even if it was an arm shot, had he hit them in the head he could have been knocked out. If it had been a KO would he still have been hit with invalid kill?

Why are you discussing this report if you just said:

2 minutes ago, BSJasonGames said:

Lets keep it focused on the original report please (although I am interested in the second one)

Anyways, I'll bite. He took one punch, immediately dropped his fists, and was gunned down. That's not exactly valid.

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Whitename said:

(although I am interested in the second one)

*cough*

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, BSJasonGames said:

And I don't believe that he was killed unfairly considering he swung at his captor. Even if it was an arm shot, had he hit them in the head he could have been knocked out. If it had been a KO would he still have been hit with invalid kill?

Yes, I would have still hit him with invalid kill etc. As is shown in the video, it's a punch on the arm in response to hostile RP to which he ALSO lowers his hands. I advise you look over the entire report thoroughly before jumping to any conclusions. 

If it was the head, meh, he's still very little threat unless he goes to pick up a gun. They had several armed guards around that could restrain him. A punch should further hostile RP, not be an excuse to justify gunning a guy down. So yes, unless the hostage was a threat to his life in that situation, it would still be invalid kill. A punch != a kill, put simply. The two are wildly disproportionate. Just like with words, currently aimed at somebody else, sufficing reasoning to gun somebody down.

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, Para said:

Yes, I would have still hit him with invalid kill etc. As is shown in the video, it's a punch on the arm in response to hostile RP to which he ALSO lowers his hands. I advise you look over the entire report thoroughly before jumping to any conclusions. 

If it was the head, meh, he's still very little threat unless he goes to pick up a gun. They had several armed guards around that could restrain him. A punch should further hostile RP, not be an excuse to justify gunning a guy down. So yes, unless the hostage was a threat to his life in that situation, it would still be invalid kill. A punch != a kill, put simply. The two are wildly disproportionate. Just like with words, currently aimed at somebody else, sufficing reasoning to gun somebody down.

^^^ He puts his arms down after 1 punch to the arm. He's no longer a threat. I could see justifiably beating the shit out of him for it, but immediately gunning him down? eh

Share this post


Link to post
9 minutes ago, Para said:

As is shown in the video, it's a punch on the arm in response to hostile RP to which he ALSO lowers his hands. I advise you look over the entire report thoroughly before jumping to any conclusions. 

Can't watch the video in the report right now as I'm at school. I will watch that when I'm able to do so.

But @Whitename Is right, I shouldn't argue that report after I said we should stop.

One thing I find interesting is that people have been executed for talking shit before yet there was no report and no ban for the executioner. Probably just because there wasn't a report but if there was would they have been banned? I believe I saw a video by @Eagle with similar circumstances. Of course, the person talking shit was in fact a hostage but I don't believe he was warned to stop talking shit before hand?

 

Cant link the video I'm talking about as it was in the meme thread before it was deleted but the video was called "Curb your big talk" I believe.

Edited by BSJasonGames

Share this post


Link to post
30 minutes ago, BSJasonGames said:

One thing I find interesting is that people have been executed for talking shit before yet there was no report and no ban for the executioner. Probably just because there wasn't a report but if there was would they have been banned? I believe I saw a video by @Eagle with similar circumstances. Of course, the person talking shit was in fact a hostage but I don't believe he was warned to stop talking shit before hand?

2

Hmm, what video was that?
From that report, it just looks like the person started shit got taken into the PD for being an ass no harm came to him and then he decides to just blast G19 because he had rights.
The second report is kinda dumb because it means that I can beat my hostage takers lower my hands and claim RDM.

Edited by Eagle

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Eagle said:

Hmm, what video was that?
From that report, it just looks like the person started shit got taken into the PD for being an ass no harm came to him and then he decides to just blast G19 because he had rights.
The second report is kinda dumb because it means I can beat him hostage takers lower my hands and claim RDM.

Cant link the video I'm talking about as it was in the meme thread before it was deleted but the video was called "Curb your big talk" I believe.

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, BSJasonGames said:

Cant link the video I'm talking about as it was in the meme thread before it was deleted but the video was called "Curb your big talk" I believe.

Ah, that situation yeah that man had been warned if he kept on talking shit he would be shot.
Here it is btw it's also on my media thread ? 

Edited by Eagle

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Eagle said:

Ah, that situation yeah that man had been warned if he kept on talked shit he would be shot.
Here it is btw it's also on my media thread ? 

Makes sense to yeet hostages for talking shit after you warn them.

BSJason, if you wanna keep talking about the other report I don't have a problem with that lol. Which of these rules gave G19 kill rights though?

Spoiler

 

9.4.1 Hostages do not comply with your demands after repeated requests or try to escape.

9.4.2 Hostages pose a direct threat to you or your group, by for example picking up a weapon when not allowed to.

9.4.3 Hostages do not value their life, for example they continuously talk back or insult you despite being told to stop.

9.4.4 The rescue party refuses to negotiate or opens fire on hostage takers.

9.4.5 Demands from negotiations have not been met after a reasonable time has elapsed.

 

Is a punch in the arm a direct threat? He received no warning to cut the shit, and also didn't really pose a threat considering the 4+ people surrounding him. Was it dumb? Sure, and I could see how beating his shit in would be understandable. But killing him cut that RP short by a long shot.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...