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NebulousCass

Gunfight KOS

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I have been seeing an uptick in the amount of people being killed on sight for simply being in the general area of where a gunfight broke out, without the character themselves taking any overtly hostile action. Now from my understanding of the rules, in order to initiate on someone, you have to have RP justification (See 6.2). In order to gain kill rights on a player, from 8.2 "A player gains kill rights when a hostile action is taken against him or when his character's life is put directly at risk..."

So that being said, is simply being in the general area of a gun fight considered taking a Hostile Action and or a direct risk against anyone and everyone near the gun fight? If so, does that mean anytime a gunfight breaks out that the surrounding area immediately becomes a KOS arena because anyone and everyone is then a hostile or direct threat toward you?

 

 

 

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No but if you clearly admit that you either stayed in the area or walked TO the area then in my opinion you're fair game and deserve the death and to be hit with NVFL.

 

Edited by Mexi

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I think it’s because there’s also an influx of firefights. And in high traffic areas(Vybor)

 

I don’t think someone mis-IDing really dictates it to be a ‘KOS’ zone. But tbh, when a gunfight breaks out, you should either hide, rub, or get involved. Those are the three choices, if you run into a gunfight while it’s still going on, you’re making a choice to loiter.

 

People need to better ID, as well as properly react to a gunfight.

 

 

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Just now, Mexi said:

No but if you clearly admit that you either stayed in the area or walked TO the area then in my opinion you're fair game and deserve the death and to be hit with NVFL.

 

That's what I'm asking though, If I hear a gunfight start out, I don't want to be running around out in the open and will usually take cover somewhere like a house or something and wait for things to calm down. Does my simply being in a house then mean that I'm KOSable?

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Guest Generic Name

Yeah, it seems pretty fucked up that on one side you can get punished for killing a hostage who punches you in the face but on the other you can get away with killing a non-hostile player you haven't even initiated on just because they happen to be in the vicinity of a previous gunfight.

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Just now, NebulousCass said:

That's what I'm asking though, If I hear a gunfight start out, I don't want to be running around out in the open and will usually take cover somewhere like a house or something and wait for things to calm down. Does my simply being in a house then mean that I'm KOSable?

Not really no..

Weapon away, sat down or just hiding doesn't indicate that.

But if you're just sprinting around with your weapon out in an area where there's clearly a fight going on, the death is on you as far as I'm concerned.

Best thing to do, hands up, hide.

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1 minute ago, NebulousCass said:

That's what I'm asking though, If I hear a gunfight start out, I don't want to be running around out in the open and will usually take cover somewhere like a house or something and wait for things to calm down. Does my simply being in a house then mean that I'm KOSable?

By rules? No. But if someone is hiding behind a house, gun in hands, and ‘waiting’, I will be quick to shoot if they do anything sus(run out after one of us die/get a kill).

 

But people who run into combat, or stand in the area of it.

 

don’t want to get shot? Sit down or hands up. 

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2 minutes ago, LemonRP said:

I think it’s because there’s also an influx of firefights. And in high traffic areas(Vybor)

 

I don’t think someone mis-IDing really dictates it to be a ‘KOS’ zone. But tbh, when a gunfight breaks out, you should either hide, rub, or get involved. Those are the three choices, if you run into a gunfight while it’s still going on, you’re making a choice to loiter.

 

People need to better ID, as well as properly react to a gunfight.

 

 

From what I've been reading, that seem to be the attitude though, that because there is an active gunfight that the entire area around the gunfight becomes a KOS zone and is justified solely because a gunfight broke out there. If you are running away, you could get gunned down because you were running away with a gun, if you hide you could get gunned down because you were in the area of the gunfight and might be an enemy looking for targets, if you get involved, well that's just asking for it.

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Just now, NebulousCass said:

From what I've been reading, that seem to be the attitude though, that because there is an active gunfight that the entire area around the gunfight becomes a KOS zone and is justified solely because a gunfight broke out there. If you are running away, you could get gunned down because you were running away with a gun, if you hide you could get gunned down because you were in the area of the gunfight and might be an enemy looking for targets, if you get involved, well that's just asking for it.

Yeah, but that’s also a very victimized perspective.

 

people need to play their cards right when shots start flying. Running at a hostile with gun in hand? Having your gun out in the building next to an active firefight?

 

Like I said, yes, it’s against the rules. People are not open to freely KOS in a firefight zone because it’s a firefight come. But yes, people mis ID because the mis ID’d victim doesn’t play smart.

 

hands up or sit down, easiest way to survive.

 

commumicate with the hostile the best you can, don’t run TOWARDS a fight, and make sure you’re slow and concise with your actions. No sprinting, walk away, unless instructed to run(them acknowledging you are not a participant in the fight 

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10 minutes ago, SomeWeirdAssGuy said:

Yeah, it seems pretty fucked up that on one side you can get punished for killing a hostage who punches you in the face but on the other you can get away with killing a non-hostile player you haven't even initiated on just because they happen to be in the vicinity of a previous gunfight.

You mean still running around in the town with there guns out thinking the rules would protect them from any and all harm that should come to them?
That is simply putting your life at risk for that dank loot or knowing for a fact they have rule armor blocking the fight out, even tho it makes no sense for them to run back in.

Edit: This ain't anything new and has been in for a year or two now, it's there to remove anyone attempting to abuse the rules in there favor when 100+ rounds are flying all around them, it all boils down to case by case not just free rain on randos.

Edited by Eagle

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My response to the OP (busy atm, can’t read all responses). If you’re knowingly in a firefight area and are killed, it is likely your killer will be guilty of invalid kill (firefight) but won’t recieve punishment. If you just walk through a town, firefight breaks out, and you’re shot, then I could see a punishment being applied

just my two cents 

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Guest Generic Name

Unless that person has a gun raised and looks to be actively participating in the fight, there's absolutely no reason to just gun him down right then and there. If the person has a gun out and is running around, I agree that it's fair game. You don't want to be gunned down, don't look like you're participating.

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If you have your gun in your hands are are running around/looting bodies you deserve to get shot. I have ran through gun fights multiple times before, but I always keep my gun on my back and walk/jog through, if I am going to stay in the area then I make sure to not loot bodies and not keep a gun out.

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Whenever I get miss I'd in a firefight I just chalk it up to bad luck and regear. 

I think if people just stopped being so gear oriented and salty then reports wouldn't happen.

Also uniforms for groups is a good thing that prevents miss ids

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3 minutes ago, Prince said:

Whenever I get miss I'd in a firefight I just chalk it up to bad luck and regear. 

I think if people just stopped being so gear oriented and salty then reports wouldn't happen.

Also uniforms for groups is a good thing that prevents miss ids

If you don't have a gun out and are just standing there eating/drinking, or talking to someone. There is no reason to be shot, no miss IDing about it. If I am in a gunfight there is no way that im just gonna stand there eating food. If you're not directly involved in the fight then you are not breaking NVFL imo. But if you decide to sit and eat apples out in the open when you are actively in a gunfight then I believe it would be NVFL

Edited by Descendants

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All I can say here is this, If you hear shots and do not plan on getting shot, DO NOT go into the area. Both parties have to be able to confirm their targets but a lot of the time this is not the case in a lot of scenarios. Best to keep the odds in your favor by not pushing it. Getting out the way is the safer option.

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1 minute ago, Whitename said:

My response to the OP (busy atm, can’t read all responses). If you’re knowingly in a firefight area and are killed, it is likely your killer will be guilty of invalid kill (firefight) but won’t recieve punishment. If you just walk through a town, firefight breaks out, and you’re shot, then I could see a punishment being applied

just my two cents 

Thanks for the response Whitename, yeah, taking part in a firefight, or knowingly walk into a fire fight area is one thing. I'm kind of talking about those bystanders that are near a fire fight that are moving to/taking cover/running away from gunfight that get gunned down.

Is there some kind of protocol that should be followed by non combatants or at least those that don't want to be seen as combatants to help avoid being seen as a target? Is there something those that are combatants can do to help prevent Mis-IDing a hostile?

Putting your hands up and walking to a house seems reasonable, but some characters might not like how vulnerable that would make them and keep their guns out while they make their way to shelter. Sitting down (F3) you could still have a gun out and be reasonably capable of defending against infected, but "You had a gun out, so I gunned you down" would still apply there as well.

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23 minutes ago, NebulousCass said:

From what I've been reading, that seem to be the attitude though, that because there is an active gunfight that the entire area around the gunfight becomes a KOS zone and is justified solely because a gunfight broke out there. If you are running away, you could get gunned down because you were running away with a gun, if you hide you could get gunned down because you were in the area of the gunfight and might be an enemy looking for targets, if you get involved, well that's just asking for it.

I mean I look at it from a perspective of realism. If I was actually Stepan Cernik and actually in a shithole like Chernarus, sitting in town when shots go popping off, I'm taking cover. I'm staying in cover until its clear. Stay away from the windows and just hide behind something solid. Then just sit there. 

My last encounter (the firefight a few days back in Vybor) was as follows:

> Shots pop off

> I take one of my mates and a civvie, hide in a two story

> everyone draws weapons but stays away from the windows

> Someone came upstairs

> "Hey buddy, we're not part of this, we're just caught in the crossfire."

> "Okay, stay in there until its over or you'll be shot."

> "Yep yep."

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tbh you walk into fight and get hit with the fetty wap you just gotta blame yourself for not valuing your characters life.

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5 minutes ago, NebulousCass said:

 

Is there some kind of protocol that should be followed by non combatants or at least those that don't want to be seen as combatants to help avoid being seen as a target? Is there something those that are combatants can do to help prevent Mis-IDing a hostile?

Putting your hands up and walking to a house seems reasonable, but some characters might not like how vulnerable that would make them and keep their guns out while they make their way to shelter. Sitting down (F3) you could still have a gun out and be reasonably capable of defending against infected, but "You had a gun out, so I gunned you down" would still apply there as well.

If your just standing in the middle of the street out in the open (not behind any sort of cover and not moving at all) then I think it is pretty obv you're not involved, gun out or not

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9 minutes ago, Sylva said:

I mean I look at it from a perspective of realism. If I was actually Stepan Cernik and actually in a shithole like Chernarus, sitting in town when shots go popping off, I'm taking cover. I'm staying in cover until its clear. Stay away from the windows and just hide behind something solid. Then just sit there. 

My last encounter (the firefight a few days back in Vybor) was as follows:

> Shots pop off

> I take one of my mates and a civvie, hide in a two story

> everyone draws weapons but stays away from the windows

> Someone came upstairs

> "Hey buddy, we're not part of this, we're just caught in the crossfire."

> "Okay, stay in there until its over or you'll be shot."

> "Yep yep."

This is usually what I do, but I've never encountered anyone walking up to the building I was in. That's how I would hope the situation would go, but sometimes that's not always the case.

Edited by NebulousCass

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-User was warned for this Post-

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I mean if you know it is an ongoing firefight and knowingly put your character in danger then it's NVFL. If you are around the area when the shooting starts happening and you try and take cover you should be fine or generally try to get out of the area. Of course, running in an open field if a firefight has started isn't smart either. Roleplay it out and adapt to the situation and decide what course of action your character wants to take.

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Personally whats always worked for me is I just put my hands up and walk out of the town where the firefight is going on. It's really never been that hard and i've never been killed in a firefight i wasn't a part of.

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The rules do not allow for anything like "kill rights on random people who happen to be in an area of a firefight". All mis-id kills are invalid and should be treated as such, regardless of reasoning like "he ran towards the firefight". We do however have reduced punishments for accidental and mis-id invalid kills done in an active firefight zone.

Of course there have been exceptions to that as well, like in reports where the people killed showed clear disregard for their lives by running around the firefight zone and looting corpses, or even positioning themselves and behaving like they are a part of the fight with weapon drawn. Then it's usually no punishment for the killer, NVFL for the victim. It's all very situational and a lot depends on video evidence. Get your ShadowPlay working ? 

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