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Server time: 2019-03-22, 03:01 WE ARE RECRUITING
Wunsleh

The community is being restricted?

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I'd like to start off saying that I am not trying to blame or insult anyone within this community. This is how I personally feel about the current situation.

I returned to this community a little over a month ago and I have personally realized that there is dampener being put upon the members of the community. People expressing their opinions in manners about gameplay/rules etc. are being shut down without having a adult discussion about it or even considering it. Off-topic threads that are meant for fun/banter are closed immediately. When I look back to a couple of years earlier there was a healthy amount of positive interaction that wasn't being restricted by the staff or the rules so I'm wondering why this suddenly changed.

In my opinion it feels like we (the community) are treated like kids and that any suggestions or anything of the sort is immediately being shut down.

Again, this is just how I feel and I'm wondering if there are others who feel the same and if perhaps the staff could give us clarity on the situation.

Edited by Wunsleh

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A couple years ago Google wasn't enforcing SJW policies. Off-topic threads were shut down due to NSFW content and Google will put the website lower in searches and ad revenue will go down if that type of content is present. The first situation I agree with to an extent. A large player base kept complaining so Rolle implemented new rules and changed some things because they were at the time the majority of the players. 

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Honestly though, the thread in question could've been kept open but allowed for content to be added appropriate to the thread without disrupting the above mentioned. But that topic aside, I was thinking more in general, not just  that particular thread null

Edited by Wunsleh

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Couldn't agree more - people from my inner circle of friends are now totally afraid of posting in general out of fear of being permanently banned for 'getting on the wrong side of someone(specifically staff).' I'm also on the brink of being permanently banned for dropping a n bomb in a channel that I thought was private, and other have been banned for posting 4/5 questionable, clearly ironic minion memes inside an off-topic meme thread - the three of them were permanently banned without the application of any warning points, so the three of them all appealed via email, apologizing and taking responsibility - whilst also promising that a recurrence won't happen again.

 

But instead they were all met with a copy and pasted deny message from the same admin that banned them in the first place:

image.png.63a062e5c7b9f4226c42d832fc45f165.png

 

DayZRP is at a stage where players are being punished for forum posts on the same level that somebody who mass RDM's in-game, threads are being shut down on the basis of 'I don't have the same sense of humor as you, therefore your thread is a shitpost.' and the self definition of 'NSFW' being branded upon threads that really aren't that bad at all. 

Unfortunately, there is nothing the community can actually do about this: DayZRP is the roleplay central of DayZ, and there's never going to be a stop of players joining the community, therefore there is no risk for staff to just rule 4 you:

Spoiler

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Not all staff, but this is the current state of how problems are being dealt with:

1e245613b2.png

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Been gone for a hot minute and really only came back a few days ago, but even from just the last few days I've seen enough to actually agree. To me it appears that everything is being done to keep in good standing with google, thus keeping ad revenue up, therefore its pretty much all about the money. Money that runs the server mind you, but the actual implications of these actions are the real issue.

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This place has become so unfriendly it's scary.

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7 minutes ago, SomeWeirdAssGuy said:

This place has become so unfriendly it's scary.

Probably the most accurate way of putting it yeah.

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Look,

 

I'll just post this, as someone who didn't have any trouble yet. So maybe I'm "unbiased", or perhaps more than those who may have gotten punishments etc. in the past. Not to throw oil into the fire, but for some to consider the approaches for the future.

Obvious disclaimer: I'm posting with the subjective knowledge I have. Maybe there's things I miss(ed) and can therefore not comprehend behind some decisions. But hey, the others (in supposed question) can add their view then.

So to be less abstract: I hear stories or see them and think that it is simply over-done moderation in particular cases - whether just a bit or a lot. Perhaps I missed the key parts in the reasoning, but nevertheless, the parts of the community or at least specific community members in question are 'scared off' or shake their heads. I don't talk about hear-say of the sixth grade now but listening to the people getting (perma-)banned for petty pictures that, as far as I am aware, did not even show explicit visual gore or sexual content. Or I see something closed pre-emptively because something could happen.

 

jofX06O.png

 

Let us try something to acknowledge a potential problem or at least how community perception could improve by changing the course in specific future cases

Maybe this is a fitting or unfitting example or comparison to some, but I would now briefly like to put you in the shoes of police. Let's assume this wasn't a private forum but a more public thing where staff is police and the other users are citizens (or foreign guests). If you do "too much" it could be considered police brutality with media outrage, stuff we see on occasion in reality. And public outcry. Even if covered by rules, if "too much" is subjectively done, it can lead to unhappy people and frustration.

 

Now, of course this is actually just a private forum centered around a game. Staff can, with great leeway, set the regulations and police the community. Staff doesn't have to act like real police by regulations and doesn't go through formal training. But maybe looking at real police MO or regulations can help. Here, at least in Germany, if you do anything in the public sector where law comes in job-wise, you learn about the

 

principle of proportionality

 

It basically means you go by law or the book and if you have leeway, you try to apply the mildest measures at your disposal to fix a potential or actual problem, and only escalate if this particular measure is no longer able to fix the problem. And only then do you go to the next level of escalation. For example, if you are a cop and see someone pissing in a corner, you don't run over and club him over the head with a baton - you apply a verbal warning for him to "piss off" (pun intended) or apply a fine. Not beat or shoot him. Or try to put him behind bars, not that you could for a longer time without the whole judge-fudge-stuff, but you get my point. Escalate only if you have to, otherwise, start mild. Oh, and somewhat distancing yourself emotionally in conflicts can help so that you do not develop grudges yourself and subconsciously influence the decisions just because you don't want to deal with someone or dislike them. It might be hard and not everyone can or wants to, but if you can, it can surely help.

As someone who had to learn or apply it, I can only suggest to start adopting this general mentality when you can. I personally believe it prolongs or maintains a general community cohesion even if rules are broken, while not resulting in bad blood or contempt at subjectively over-done moderation or punishments.

 

Lastly, I'm not here to tell anyone in staff or management how to run this community. And lots of people who work in staff surely do fine. This isn't a generalized complaint on all, but a generalized concern on some things and the results actions can have. And again, I wasn't involved in every message, encounter, communication, rule-break as ever-present being who saw it all and yes, sure, there's always two sides to a story. But on the other hand, this "uncertainty" or "bewilderment" in parts of the community is the outcome of some decisions that were taken.

 

I just want some people to consider that potentially over-doing it probably not that helpful and scares off people that might need a slap on the wrist or a temporary time-out, but would otherwise perfectly contribute on the server or community through RP'ing here. That's basically my appeal to people.

 

With the principle of proportionality in mind, harsh punishments or permanent bans or permanent removal of certain community features (where even an appeal is denied!) should only be the last resort reserved for when there is absolutely no betterment to be expected or when someone clearly shits on the community and doesn't want to contribute on multiple occasions. In turn, I would perhaps refrain from locking threads in an OT section or so until something that could happen and might warrant a lock actually happens, even if I can understand the ad-revenue problem. Not sure how this works exactly. Even then (in my book), you could just delete unfitting content instead of locking the thread, which in turn sends a certain signal to parts of the community again. Would we be here otherwise, posting right now, about this topic? I doubt it.

 

Now, I think that about sums it up. I thank you for your attention so far and again would like to add that the point of this is, ideally, simply to result in improvements in the long run where they could be needed. As some people seem to be unhappy, it appears to me some things could've gone better, making me post this in the first place.

 

It's meant as a good "heads up".

 

 

 

Edited by Combine

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The fact I got my status updates perminately removed and I received 10 points (more than most in-game reports) worries me 

2 minion memes = 10 points ?

it is quite clear that within this community you are not able to voice your opinion on some subjects, I do not believe the fact more right wing views are silenced than left is a coincidence.

Issues such as immigration, LGBT, trans and those sort of issues cannot be spoken about, well not without fear of voicing the wrong opinion and getting warning points or banned.

 

many different people have different senses of humour and different opinions on sensitive matter. 

If you are one of those people “offended” by what others say, unless it’s a direct insult towards you, should simply leave the thread and leave that person alone.

 

The fact people are demonised for opinions and humour is why we have a culture of “snaking” within this community, this culture has led to hostilities between staff and players, also led to people who side with staff being seen as grasses and snakes.

 

I believe the staff started respecting people’s right to free speech and right to an opinion more, allowing them to say what they like, joke how they like as long as no community member is specifically targeted, that would be an amazing step in the right direction.

 

 

Edited by Wyoming

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I get the nsfw thing just because it isn’t like mod. Can’t be selling skins to make the booko bucks. I didn’t know prior to tonight that google ads worked this way for this site ( only knew about their YouTube add policies) so I get that.

but certain things do get taken a bit far sometimes. A slightly more relaxed community’s would be nice but usually I’m goin with the keep your head down on the forums, roleplay in game strategy. That way only like 25 percent of the server has a problem with me. Especially with a mostly hero group ?

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It's unfortunate that the restrictions being placed upon the community goes beyond the forums and messes with the game as well.

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I agree with a lot of what has been said so far, mainly in regards to the punishments being far too harsh currently. Hell, recently an entirely clean player got perm'd because he talked shit on TS. Anyone who knew this kid would know that he's all bark and zero bite, and he was undoubtedly going "REEEEE" half the time. To me, it feels like a severe disconnect between staff and players, in which the staff simply don't know the people they're policing. That's not to say that every staff member should know every player intimately, but they should at least look into the people they're about to throw away, especially when it happens without a public report. 

I think the past month has been an indication that part of the current leadership is way beyond too harsh, and it really, really needs to change. 

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All I'm seeing here is people being apologists for shit behavior.  If "being a SJW" is now synonymous with "not being an asshole", sign me the hell up.

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3 hours ago, Wunsleh said:

When I look back to a couple of years earlier there was a healthy amount of positive interaction that wasn't being restricted by the staff or the rules so I'm wondering why this suddenly changed.

It's not a sudden change, people kept pushing things with bad behavior so we pushed back with increased moderation.

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3 minutes ago, Chris said:

All I'm seeing here is people being apologists for shit behavior.  If "being a SJW" is now synonymous with "not being an asshole", sign me the hell up.

You're being ignorant. 

I'm assuming that you didn't bother to read the thread and you decided to post anyway.

If shit behavior is posting memes in an off-topic meme thread, then sign me the hell up for being an apologist for shit behavior.

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Some things are harsh some things are not harsh enough, most rulebreaks are subjective to a staff team and those are are black and white generally just get punished instantly. Every report has thread notes and 3 signature or 2 with an admin and GM. Honestly im all for memes and fun and banter but the forums are just not a place for it, discord is free and just go make a server and invite all your friends and keep it private for memes (Hell thats what I do). Then you can't get in trouble on here. As for people openly flaming others on teamspeak or whatever, I think the punishment was fine for Levi, @Charlie got banned for the same shit just saying it on stream. Its DayZRP and nothing is going to change massively from this thread unfortunately but this forum is for roleplay discussion, lore and reports mostly which is fine. "SJW" is an easy term to call people when you think something someone else did is not worth it. I disagree there is any "Restrictions" other than don't post a meme thread and if you do post memes keep them tasteful and mostly NSFW not "I got bored and shot up my school" the real SJW google. I don't think condoning what currently is not bad at all and Rolle isn't going to risk having his revenue shut down for the sake of memes because im sure he has family to feed and debt to pay off as well.

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6 minutes ago, Rolle said:

It's not a sudden change, people kept pushing things with bad behavior so we pushed back with increased moderation.

Badly phrased it, apologies! I myself was among the people who back then had a terrible attitude on the forums, no doubt about it! still, I think there is a common ground that could be found where both the the members and the staff can enjoy themselves without the worries/fears that are currently present.

Edited by Wunsleh

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Tbh the only thing i care about is the in game rules and fun. I couldn't give two shits about the forums (no offence) , the forums is like a minigame for me . I have been in several communities in roleplay that don't even have forums. 

As long as the roleplay is enjoyable ... who cares.

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12 minutes ago, Chris said:

All I'm seeing here is people being apologists for shit behavior.  If "being a SJW" is now synonymous with "not being an asshole", sign me the hell up.

People are expressing their worries, which they have every right to do so.

 

Just now, Saints said:

Tbh the only thing i care about is the in game rules and fun. I couldn't give two shits about the forums (no offence) , the forums is like a minigame for me . I have been in several communities in roleplay that don't even have forums. 

As long as the roleplay is enjoyable ... who cares.

Seeing as for bandits their RP is suffering because of it, I'd say it's quite a problem.

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Just now, Wunsleh said:

 

 

Seeing as for bandits their RP is suffering because of it, I'd say it's quite a problem.

My guy , you have 0 hours in this lore and don't even have a character . Seems like you are just going off others opinion and the bandwagon of hostile rp is dead. If you actually played you would understand that people can rob people , for things that they need. 

Anyway , rolle want's to make a successful business and make profit from it so we can benefit from it in the future. Ads are more strict now , therefore the site needs to be more strict. 

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4 minutes ago, Saints said:

My guy , you have 0 hours in this lore and don't even have a character . Seems like you are just going off others opinion and the bandwagon of hostile rp is dead. If you actually played you would understand that people can rob people , for things that they need. 

Anyway , rolle want's to make a successful business and make profit from it so we can benefit from it in the future. Ads are more strict now , therefore the site needs to be more strict. 

'Pal', I have been part of this community for a short bit longer then you, I see the downward trend because it was apparant back then as well. I'm well versed in the lore and how this community works so please....please dont try and lecture me.

Ps: if I have worries, I express them, that is my right as a member of this community.

Edited by Wunsleh

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1 minute ago, Wunsleh said:

Badly phrased it, apologies! I myself was among the people who back then had a terrible attitude on the forums, no doubt about it! still, I think there is a common ground to be found where both the the members and the staff can enjoy themselves without the worries/fears that are currently present.

I don't think that people have anything to fear if they are being reasonable in their use of this community, forums and servers. I don't have a feeling as if the staff is oppressing the  community and forcing a way of thinking or censoring you. I simply try to uphold a certain level of quality of discussion, content, role play and respect that I believe would provice a good environment for serious RP - something that DayZRP has a reputation of delivering thanks to you, role players. I'm not always right about things, I sometimes make changes that suck, sometimes not, but most of the time they are done to "raise the bar" of quality and provide better balance.

We are all different and every community is unique. This community cannot and will not appeal to everyone, there is no satisfying both those who want organic RP where you are free to do whatever you want as long as it makes sense IC and those who prefer restricted RP, where there are rules that limit realism and freedom for the sake of more serious RP and abuse prevention. Likewise there are those who love threads full of shitty minion memes about ISIS and school shootings and those who despise them and see them as pure cancer.

I happen to be on one side of this wall as you all know and that's what I try to focus on. I'm sure that if you put yourself in my position, you wouldn't be trying to make your own community or business work in a certain way that you personally don't agree with, just because it is controversial, or some people disagree with it.

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30 minutes ago, Stannis said:

You're being ignorant. 

I'm assuming that you didn't bother to read the thread and you decided to post anyway.

If shit behavior is posting memes in an off-topic meme thread, then sign me the hell up for being an apologist for shit behavior.

No, I'm saying that if you think that dropping an N bomb is funny, I'd be happy to see you go.

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11 minutes ago, Saints said:

My guy , you have 0 hours in this lore and don't even have a character . Seems like you are just going off others opinion and the bandwagon of hostile rp is dead. If you actually played you would understand that people can rob people , for things that they need. 

Anyway , rolle want's to make a successful business and make profit from it so we can benefit from it in the future. Ads are more strict now , therefore the site needs to be more strict. 

Someone who plays the server here - regardless his argument is still valid and shutting it over ' you are just going off others opinion and the bandwagon of hostile rp is dead.' shows that you have exactly no idea what this thread is talking about.

It's talking in-general, forums, in-game and in general. 

 

Also, considering you seem so quick to jump onto other people for inexperience in knowledge within the server, you should seriously know what you're talking about when it comes to in-game rules:

fcdf8a2f31cf2ca8c2dbff935d65a047.png

 

The site has already got a "page monetization disabled - violent content", according to Rolle. That's going to come hand-in-hand with a roleplay enviroment which is based in a lore where violent content is common. 

This isn't a business, it's a community. It should be treated like one.

 

4 minutes ago, Rolle said:

I don't think that people have anything to fear if they are being reasonable in their use of this community, forums and servers. I don't have a feeling as if the staff is oppressing the  community and forcing a way of thinking or censoring you. I simply try to uphold a certain level of quality of discussion, content, role play and respect that I believe would provice a good environment for serious RP - something that DayZRP has a reputation of delivering thanks to you, role players. I'm not always right about things, I sometimes make changes that suck, sometimes not, but most of the time they are done to "raise the bar" of quality and provide better balance.

We are all different and every community is unique. This community cannot and will not appeal to everyone, there is no satisfying both those who want organic RP where you are free to do whatever you want as long as it makes sense IC and those who prefer restricted RP, where there are rules that limit realism and freedom for the sake of more serious RP and abuse prevention. Likewise there are those who love threads full of shitty minion memes about ISIS and school shootings and those who despise them and see them as pure cancer.

I happen to be on one side of this wall as you all know and that's what I try to focus on. I'm sure that if you put yourself in my position, you wouldn't be trying to make your own community or business work in a certain way that you personally don't agree with, just because it is controversial, or some people disagree with it.

The communities rules and standards are fair and understandable, it's more the fact that rule 4, in my opinion, allows staff to determine whatever they want as a rule-breakage. We all make poor decisions, it's just we feel like as of late staff are taking steps in the wrong direction.

 

I will admit, the shitty minion memes were cancer, and i'm sure the members that posted them agree that it won't happen again. But when they appeal, apologize and take responsibility for their mistake and promise it won't happen again, the administration team still uphold their ban. The harshness is pathetic to the point where it feels like these members are being oppressed to the point where they're not allowed to amend their mistakes and re-join roleplay.

 

I've ran communities in the past, and I wholly understand the strict rules - but if a player admits that they did wrong, appeals and takes responsibility they deserve another chance.

3 minutes ago, Chris said:

No, I'm saying that if you think that dropping an N bomb is funny, I'd be happy to see you go.

39d3fe7a872d029bb7d63797b2cfbd6c.png

If you're not willing to take part in a civilized debate, and encourage growth and new ideas within the community, I'm sure a lot of people would be happy to see you go too.

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Alright, I'm gonna drop my 2 cents into the discussion. Feeling restricted in a way that you're representing it I get it. Feeling restricted is not good if it's restricting someone in a BAD way. At the same time, pleasing everyone is hard. That people are afraid of expressing something in an acceptable way shouldn't happen. If people are afraid of sharing something because they will be punished by it's wrong. 

I usually say that yes people do deserve a second chance. Although to an extent for what the person who did it. If the person did something really horrible or just wanted to get banned then it should stay that way. If they make up for it and apologize. Sure give them a second chance based on what they did. It's case by case then because every person is different. 

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