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Settlements, Outposts, Radio Stations, and the Future - Discussion

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So as I was digging through some posts from a certain Loremaster from long ago I came across this thread and it got me thinking.

You can read it for yourself, but the basic gist is that TOR (The Outpost Rangers) set up a string of outposts/camps along to coast to serve as resupply points. These could be stocked and guarded by anyone and it served to generate rp in these areas. Back in early 2014 I remember the STALKER camp that was at the Electro docks, and the quality of rp that could be found there was very good and also convenient for anybody who spawned to find rp and people quickly without a lengthy trek over deserted towns and industrial wastes to the interior where all the people are. These days it is a bit out of the norm for anybody to set up anything on the coast, and I think it would be neat if there were a similar network of camps that could be used for this purpose or for whatever folks come up with. 

I'm not here to dredge up nostalgia many can't relate to and talk about "how thangs wuz better in your grandpappy's day" but I do want to use some examples from that time to illustrate what I think could provide a major face lift and fundamental change to the overall server dynamic without staff/lore factions or changes to group composition. The issue is not the quality of rp, realism, or anything like that. Frankly looking back now a lot of the times that were "better" had fairly silly concepts and a lack of realism but provided people things to do and kept people interested. It's hard to bring up precise examples but keep in mind we come from a shitty military simulator that and a version of DayZ mod that was basically vanilla before Kravok and Mikachu improved it. We should work to develop a close knit community that cares for it's members and takes care of people. That will fix that problem or at least improve it. But that's separate from the topic of this thread.

One of the big difference between mod and SA is that towns can be cleared out and used for RP. This is due to enter-able buildings and zeds pretty much fucking off for a while once you kill them. This had the effect of driving people out of many of the areas we use for hubs today (Vybor, Bash, Novy, Stary, etc) and into areas that were either PCBs (player controlled bases which were unwalled compounds that were added in by devs), settlements, or areas where zed numbers could be regulated. Back when north-east airfield and the adjacent Olsha radio hill was relative it was used as an area where a lot of groups would fight and rp. Nearby at Pobeda dam the free medics ran a camp there and the nearby woods around Guba bay were home to a fair share of camps, firefights, and pop-up bases that were built as our version of the mod progressed. This spread rp over a vast area and created lanes of movement where people could bump into each other.

My point is that basebuilding, while not necessarily replacing stashes/barrels (as there is really no means of securing loot in these places), will provide the means to spread rp around. We could implement such a system of public stashes sort of like geocaches people could contribute to. Basebuilding and .63 aside, there are other public or community servers that have pre-built bases used for hoarding gear. I am sure that it won't take long after modding for people to create a basic 3D editor where In-game building assets could be used to make player settlements or PCBs. I am not really a fan of a large staff faction trade post but I think having the old system back could spread out rp and serve to enable groups to attain a higher level of progression. We only have 60 slots in a server as of now, but if that increases it will provide enough players to populate distant outposts and settlements and get rid of the "hub" phenomenon. Even if it stays the same the amount of servers operated will undoubtedly increase and thus give room for various hotspots spread out among them. I think it will generate genuine dynamic rp and interactions that are not forced or contrived. 

I think we as a community have seriously underestimated the effect these factors could have on the state of rp and the server as a whole as the game improves. What do you guys want to see in the future and what are things you want to make/see/participate in. 

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I like the idea of having 3/4 separate "kingdoms" for people to go to and RP at, it would give the sense of different communities. Also people would travel more to different "kingdoms" instead of just staying in one "hub". I think it would be cool to have a trader group that drives around trucks and trades to all the different kingdoms. This could also be fun for bandits who could set up road blocks on the major roads connecting the "kingdoms" to rob people +1 to this idea, I too have thought of this, just never made a thread. 

 

It would also be cool to see a story around each settlement. Each settlement has their own set of rules/standards and their own lore. 

It would be nice to see each settlement have their own thing to contribute/produce. Like settlement A grows crops and makes food, Settlement B sells ammunition that they make etc. etc.

 

Lastly, say there is an evil group and they want to take over a settlement (Kingdom c), well they should be allowed to, then we could see a thing where the other settlements pitch in and fight for their allies and try to take back (Kingdom C).

Spoiler

Vid just released on base building in .63

 

 

Edited by Descendants

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So being one of those people who can relate to the nostalgia, I've long removed the rose tinted goggles and see things for what they were, exactly the same as what happens today.

So let me first say that this is not a bad idea, the problem is that it is a difficult idea to actually manifest in game without extensive IG hours put in by people who want these things to stay up and populated. Thats really the first step in all of this, finding people who can dedicate time to the project and see that it flourishes via a slew of different means. Back in the Mod, there was a healthy number of individuals that would contribute to making these places area's of RP as opposed to area's dedicated to asking for 5.56. I'm certainly not saying that the drive to see good RP flourish is dead, but the issue at hand is something far greater then that, the issue that highhandedly puts a strain on pretty much all other aspects of the community: The story.

You may say "But the story is good, it lets us make our own stories" And to that I would reply with a big ol' "Sometimes". Indeed the players make their own stories with their interactions, but they must follow the overarching story for the server, fair enough and no problem there. The problem comes from the setting being...well...boring. We have had at least 3 lore wipes that I know about, probably at least another 1 or 2 since I've been gone? yes its nice to have a fresh start, but thats a band-aid on gunshot wound. It may fix the problem for a time, but everyone ends up pretty much doing the same shit without fail. The reason why the Mod was so fondly looked at is not because of ARMA 2 or anything, it was because the rules governing player characters backstories, groups and the rules at large were pretty lax and allowed for silly but still fun and refreshing groups. Lets face it, how many times have we seen a CDF group? A Russian extremist group? Insane people banding together? Chernarussian nationalists? or even just a survivor group? Anywhere from 10-25 times if not more. 

Anyways, back to the topic at hand and getting out of my mini-rant there. I think its a good idea to encourage such things, however the vast majority of players will always flock to the area's where loot is the heaviest, like the Bandit Triangle. Gear = players = RP. The best way in my opinion and from what I've seen in practice work for such changes to player migration is to get in touch with large groups ( Or especially influential RP'ers  ) and have their groups move to other locations to stimulate RP there. If people know there will be players in a location, chances are they will go there in hopes of RP or hostilities, just look at the settlements in the Mod days. Players flocked to The Ravens Nest, Haven and the others because they KNEW there was at least a handful of players there at any time that they could interact with.

 

All and all, I'm down for it, with modding comes the salvation of DAYZSA and I'm sure that DAZRP will thrive with it.

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1 hour ago, Hex said:

 the vast majority of players will always flock to the area's where loot is the heaviest, like the Bandit Triangle. Gear = players = RP. The best way in my opinion and from what I've seen in practice work for such changes to player migration is to get in touch with large groups ( Or especially influential RP'ers  ) and have their groups move to other locations to stimulate RP there. If people know there will be players in a location, chances are they will go there in hopes of RP or hostilities, just look at the settlements in the Mod days. Players flocked to The Ravens Nest, Haven and the others because they KNEW there was at least a handful of players there at any time that they could interact with

The only way that I see this issue being solved is with admin made settlements that are just ran by players. If the settlements arn't made with admin tools and made "ungreifable" then people are not going to go through the effort to make a base that can be destroyed in a few hours.

 I feel that each settlement should have some sort of machines that can be used to make items, such as food, clothes, ammo, weapons, etc. So that people can use the settlements for gear and RP. I know that it sounds silly that we need to use gear to make people go somewhere and RP but if we are being honest, people care a TON about gear.

Edited by Descendants

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57 minutes ago, Descendants said:

The only way that I see this issue being solved is with admin made settlements that are just ran by players. If the settlements arn't made with admin tools and made "ungreifable" then people are not going to go through the effort to make a base that can be destroyed in a few hours.

 I feel that each settlement should have some sort of machines that can be used to make items, such as food, clothes, ammo, weapons, etc. So that people can use the settlements for gear and RP. I know that it sounds silly that we need to use gear to make people go somewhere and RP but if we are being honest, people care a TON about gear.

Settlements can be made to be ungriefable by players currently, once again it takes proper planning and understanding. It pretty much starts with selecting a location, picking a spot in the middle of a town is difficult because....well....its the middle of a town. However, selecting a place like say, Kamenka docks or the Bash hill at NWAF offers a good location to defend and work from. Already existing structures that provide a strong foundation for things to be built. Granted, a group does not need to place any items down for it to be a settlement, simply a groups presence in a location can merit such a title in all reality. 

I do agree with you on the second bit though to a degree, yes once such things can be implemented via modding and such, settlements will hold higher value to players, but we shouldent require it to make settlements work properly. Players will always value gear, thats a given in Standalone due to the process of finding clothing/equipment, but putting its value over RP is pushing it.

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12 minutes ago, Hex said:

Settlements can be made to be ungriefable by players currently

Nothing is stopping someone from dropping everything out of a tent and running off with it to just despawn it in a bush. We don't have a way of tracking it even though it is against the rules

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56 minutes ago, Descendants said:

Nothing is stopping someone from dropping everything out of a tent and running off with it to just despawn it in a bush. We don't have a way of tracking it even though it is against the rules

Exactly, thats why you dont use permanent tents. Yes a settlement is supposed to be a permanent place, however whats inside doesnt have to stay down all the time. I've known groups to stay mobile with such things, carrying a large tent or two with them, placing it down for the duration of their RP before packing everything up and heading back into the sunset. You dont need 15 car tents to make a settlement, just people and RP.

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11 minutes ago, Hex said:

Exactly, thats why you dont use permanent tents. Yes a settlement is supposed to be a permanent place, however whats inside doesnt have to stay down all the time. I've known groups to stay mobile with such things, carrying a large tent or two with them, placing it down for the duration of their RP before packing everything up and heading back into the sunset. You dont need 15 car tents to make a settlement, just people and RP.

But like you said before, nobody is going to go to a settlement if there is no gear. 

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21 minutes ago, Descendants said:

But like you said before, nobody is going to go to a settlement if there is no gear. 

People will go to a settlement if word carries that the RP there is fun, happened at Severo Pub, Cherno towards the beginning of the lore wipe and Riptides camp back then even had some regulars turn up for a chat.

It's about the RP the settlement provides that'll bring people in, not the endless amounts of clothes.

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5 minutes ago, Mexi said:

People will go to a settlement if word carries that the RP there is fun, happened at Severo Pub, Cherno towards the beginning of the lore wipe and Riptides camp back then even had some regulars turn up for a chat.

It's about the RP the settlement provides that'll bring people in, not the endless amounts of clothes.

true, but if settlement A is closer to the airfield and has more tents with loot than settlement B. I can guarantee you that settlement A will have more people. I wish this wasn't true but it is. Though when GMTC was around down at the coast, a lot of people went there just to RP. We just need another big group to take RP out of the triangle

Edited by Descendants

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1 minute ago, Descendants said:

true, but if settlement A is closer to the airfield and has more tents with loot than settlement B. I can guarantee you that settlement A will have more people. I wish this wasn't true but it is

Settlement A will have people that give a shit about the gear, Settlement B will have better quality RP other than 'do ya have this, that and everything else on my shopping list?'.

That I guarantee.

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1 minute ago, Mexi said:

Settlement A will have people that give a shit about the gear, Settlement B will have better quality RP other than 'do ya have this, that and everything else on my shopping list?'.

That I guarantee.

I cant argue with that. But I feel that we have more people in category A sadly

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39 minutes ago, Descendants said:

I cant argue with that. But I feel that we have more people in category A sadly

Let them go shopping then, look for the RP you want.. Not what's dangled in front of everyone, ya know?

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I think that something which would solve the problem of “hub’s” is when modding is available and we have access to some sort of 3D-editor. This is what made everything possible back in mod was that no matter who you were you could hop in the editor and create a settlement, once you created it you would post it on the forums and wait for feedback. This feature once implemented will allow for groups to put up camps a lot easier and therefore the settlements will be spread out a lot more effectively eliminating the “hum” mentality. So in all honesty there is nothing we can really do now but sit and wait... which In all honesty sucks

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There are different ways to accomplish the same goal in terms of how settlements are to be run. Do we allow player groups to own and operate them while utilizing a set list of rules specific to all settlements. Do we use the early system that was used with original tradepost back in the day where its a singular hub that everyone can come to and trade/RP. Or sprinkle outposts around the map for people to occupy, claim and fight over if they wish. There are other options but my own personal favorite is dependent on the power of the current groups. Having 2/3 large groups that have the manpower to support such settlements and actually man them half the time would offer players ample places to visit, offering a slew of opportunities in terms of trade routes and even the bandit side of things. Making sure these settlements are spread well across the map as well, as to not have one in Stary and one in Novy per say. 

 

I'm also a big fan of a mobile settlement where a group of nearly any size can carry tents and such to a location of their choosing, setting up before advertising via radio/TS Message/Server message, that the settlement/trade post is up at whatever location. They can stay for however long they want, trade, RP, before pulling up the tents and moving off. This provides even small groups a way to bring RP to them if they are unable to find it or create an RP dynamic specific to that group of players.

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