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Mugin

"My way or the highway" vs. BadRP

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This is a bit of a PSA/Suggestion, but primarily I want people to grasp what I have been seeing, and try to remedy it, along with discussing ways to combat this.

The past couple of months/weeks I've seen a lot of people complain about BadRP, or too hostile to RP. As well as the opposite spectrum, not enough hostile, give back the rules type ideals.

Why is this a problem? People aren't happy.

I've noticed a common trend in a lot of these arguments and complaints. People aren't getting what they want.
The most common and recent iterations of these complaints being: People leave because hostile RP is too much, people leave because hostile isn't enough. ( Grossly simplified, but accurate)

Now I honestly feel people are just too used to getting what they want... RP isn't supposed to cater to one person's particular whim. Sure you can RP a super soldier or a brainiac, but that's just kinda shooting yourself in the foot. You need to have flaws, an actual person. If you're looking to get any good dynamic or organic RP, you need to be able to put others before yourself.

It's similar to giving yourself the best items at the start of Skyrim or Fallout, its fun for some, but cheating.
Now don't get me wrong, this is fine. It's just when implemented into a massive online game/community. It's a bit of a cluster fuck. Super soldiers running amuck killing everything with their massive length. Child doctors able to withstand waterboarding and other just crazy circumstances you'd never see.

I get it, it's a game. You're supposed to have fun, but that's the problem. You're, you're putting yourself first.
It's fine to do this, but people need to understand, change comes from within. "My way or the highway!" or "So and so is bad at RP because they actually robbed me!" Needs to stop, if we are actually going to better the community.

For once, maybe try to put someone else's RP before yours for a change? Maybe add some character flaws? Other suggestions are appreciated. 
Recently I needed RP with a group who'll remain nameless. I spent about two hours waiting for what they needed to do and assisted in helping them. It wasn't the most fun I had, but it bred RP and made for a more enjoyable experience I feel.

Currently, community rules we have in place have hostile and realism by the balls. These rules allow people to have it "my way or the highway" which just makes RP stagnate and repetitive.
"Hey there, nice weather huh?" 
"Oh yeah!"
"Well, I have friends nearby so I gotta go!"
"Okay, bye!"
"Bye!"

There currently is no and never has been any true conflict. Conflict is crucial to any story. We cannot make good conflict with these rules. This is the problem I see that needs to change.
Either we adapt ourselves to the limited rules we have, or we revert to the old days, or we try something new again.

Either way, we need to change. 

Maybe add character flaws to the character pages. Make it mandatory? People aren't having fun and leaving because this mindset is strangling both sides of the same argument.

TL;DR: Try putting others before yourself and I feel it will increase RP potential for all. Don't make yourself OP. Adjust the rules and playstyles for realism. These things I feel are a good recipe for fun.

It's an opinion that should be molded and changed with input from you all to better the community! Keep that in mind, please. I'll be around in a few hours to clarify any points, given it got kinda ranty. 

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You have a Dungeons and Dragons campaign, where the goblins, orcs, creatures of the world you'd usually find on your travels don't attack you as they have no reason rather than wanting your loot... you have towns that prosper as the local evil wizard and his henchmen can't tax the town unfairly as there is no reason to other than "I want more gold"... you have a dragon that sits in their cave all day as it is not allowed to attack towns without good reason... 

The players of this DnD campaign play for 1 session then realise fuck all happens and then leaves... 

That is why I agree with your post, and it's why I will continue to support Anarchy and other groups doing stuff like the gun embargo (hell, i'd go as far to say they were too liberal letting anyone get a licence, should of had one common enough factor that meant not everyone could get one if they apply :L ) 

Conflict breeds stories, dictatorship breeds railroads and underground movements, adversity breeds resistance. 

However, only one of two things happen atm. Either:

-No conflicts happen due to rules prohibiting anything but the most philosophical reasons for hostile RP 

-Conflict happens thanks to massive work arounds devised by certain groups, but everyone's solution to the problem causers is either to complain, or try the "sledgehammer approach" to the problem, and then complain the group in question is too OP when it doesn't work. 

Big groups that want to take over an area being too OP.... hmmm.... 

It is almost as if it is possible that if these large groups that cause trouble/ take over an area had more than just resistance to deal with like, gosh I dunno, common bandits and scum in their territory that just rob and plunder for the sake of it, they wouldn't be so OP... as they'd have to divvy out some of their men / efforts to deal with these smaller threats than just focusing on their main opposition all the time...

Too bad the rules don't allow for these small change threats... 

source.gif

Edited by The Traveler

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Essentially, if the problem is to be fixed we need to bring back FEAR. Let us rob people, let us hurt people, let people actually fear strangers rather than approach them like a blind sheep to a shepherd. The apocalypse is supposed to be gritty, mean, and unforgiving but with the current state of things people can't be hostile unless they spend hours of time devoted to creating a reason for their hostility. As soon as the rules are fixed and the possibility for someone to walk up to a stranger and point a gun at them is allowed once again then the dilemma will go away.

Without FEAR the "Apocalypse" is just a word. It doesn't mean anything until the world truly feels like it has ended and has been replaced by a new lawless one.

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I agree with more or less all of this. As long as the rules demand a certain level and amount of RP when you rob people, I don't see any reason why people should need to build reasons for it before initiating. 

More than anything, though, I'm a massive fan of letting your character have flaws, and taking a loss to let others have the day. If you have to win every encounter (and I'm not talking PvP here), I'm guessing the game will stop being fun pretty quickly. 

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Comparing DayZ to D&D is not really a good example IMO. DayZ is essentially a PvP survival game, we on DayZRP try to replace the PvP element with RP, something that isn't easy and due to the PvP mindset we must restrict the gameplay with many rules to prevent abuse. D&D is specifically created for RP and doesn't have to deal with the PvP mentality and "I have to win" and "my way or the highway" attitude that DayZ players have. I don't believe there is any solution to fixing this, it's just the way DayZ as a game and it's playerbase is. 

I completely disagree that removing the restrictions we have in place that limit PvP will benefit the community. Allowing PvP players to dominate the server once again by initiating and torturing everything that moves or bringing "fear" will not help solve this. If anything, it will discourage less PvP focused players to even log in into the game or make them quit the community altogether, which we have seen examples of as recently as this week (see leaving threads). If what you want to do is walk up to a stranger and point a gun at them then I suggest public servers, they are great for that kind of thing.

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Right now, I think the rules make things safe. The question is more about how safe is too safe for an “apocalypse” setting? 

Seeing another player right now as it is, means that players run up to one another usually without much fear and have some RP. That’s pretty cool, but in an apocalypse, how realistic is that? You don’t know anything about this person at all, so why would you go run up to them and talk to them? 

I’m not saying we should be able to run around and shoot people for no reason other than “stranger danger”, but by having to constantly evaluate a persons motives and keep your wits about you in case they try and get the drop on you and rob you feels more real. Approaching other survivors should always make you feel apprehensive, especially if you don’t know them. 

I feel like right now there is no feeling of appreciation when seeing or approaching other players because they can’t really rob you (at all for the most part), harm you or anything else without going through so many hoops it makes hostile RP take forever and is discouraged because if not done exactly right, or even if it is, a report gets filed against you.

Why risk a 3-7 day ban doing hostile RP (especially those new to it) at all? Well no conflict ends up with most people (except the brave ones willing to risk doing hostile RP) doing carebear RP all the time. 

While that’s all fine, and there is nothing wrong with it, this makes it feel a little too safe and that you can move around with relative impunity and situational awareness kind of goes out the window. 

It would be nice to see some kind of ability to rob or hold someone hostage (for whatever reason, so long as it’s RPd out) more easily and without having to have RP justification for the initiation before the initiation drops

Tl;Dr being able to generate RP by dropping an initiation rather than dropping an initiation because of prior RP would be nice to see in my opinion.

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10 hours ago, MeenMuginLovin said:

 

"Hey there, nice weather huh?" 
"Oh yeah!"
"Well, I have friends nearby so I gotta go!"
"Okay, bye!"
"Bye!"

You could easily add to this "standard" conversation yourself.

"Hey there, nice weather huh?"
"Yeah, I suppose?"
"Well, I got friends nearby so I gotta go!"

 

At this point in the conversation, think of what you got going on atm, say if you are looking for somebody.

"Hey, before you go, you seen a guy yada yada, about yay high and sounds like he's got a tumor in his mouth?"
"Uh, you mean "Yada Yada"? Yeah I spotted him over in Kabanino talking to some dude in a trench coat."

This was a piss poor example but it gets the point across. People need to stop complaining about the community when they are most likely part of the problem themselves.

Edited by Marcoooz

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11 hours ago, MeenMuginLovin said:

"Hey there, nice weather huh?" 

"Oh yeah!"
"Well, I have friends nearby so I gotta go!"
"Okay, bye!"
"Bye!"

Though I agree with most of your points I have to say I also understand why the current rules are in place. However I did not "agree" with the example you have of a conversation.
In my expierence with RP I've had not once had this situation. Sure I had some people whom did not have the time to talk but as far as I know i've always been able to make conversation with anyone. But I can understand that some people might have these problems and I do agree that maybe adding a "flaws" part to the character page is a good way to deal with some stuff. I myself always add flaws to my characters. It makes them believable as human beings.

Edited by barto300

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@barto300 I’ve had a lot of times where I would come across someone and want to engage in RP with them only to have the conversation go something like this:

Me: “Oh, hello there. I didn’t think there were any other survivors here.”

Them: “Yeah? We’re around. Ok well bye, I’m going to keep moving.”

Me: “Oh, ok, uh good luck?”

Them: *Runs off to keep looting houses* 

I follow them thinking hey maybe we can RP while looting? Talk about shared interests? Back stories etc? Then I get hit with “//Gotta ReGear, no time for RP atm, sorry.”

So yeah, kinda shitty and honestly BadRP, Avoiding RP, Powergaming, Metagaming, etc but yanno, I get it. You want to gear up after dying, sorry “getting wounded” in a massive firefight because you got into a firefight on the other side of the country and just happened to wake up, nearly naked in the middle of nowhere. Makes sense to me I guess.

Not accusing you or anyone specifically, but it’s an example that has happened to me recently.

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5 minutes ago, NebulousCass said:

@barto300 I’ve had a lot of times where I would come across someone and want to engage in RP with them only to have the conversation go something like this:

Me: “Oh, hello there. I didn’t think there were any other survivors here.”

Them: “Yeah? We’re around. Ok well bye, I’m going to keep moving.”

Me: “Oh, ok, uh good luck?”

Them: *Runs off to keep looting houses* 

I follow them thinking hey maybe we can RP while looting? Talk about shared interests? Back stories etc? Then I get hit with “//Gotta ReGear, no time for RP atm, sorry.”

So yeah, kinda shitty and honestly BadRP, Avoiding RP, Powergaming, Metagaming, etc but yanno, I get it. You want to gear up after dying, sorry “getting wounded” in a massive firefight because you got into a firefight on the other side of the country and just happened to wake up, nearly naked in the middle of nowhere. Makes sense to me I guess.

Not accusing you or anyone specifically, but it’s an example that has happened to me recently.

I understand. Maybe it just doesn't bother me a that much when it happens. But then again I can make people crazy IRL because of talking too much so it might be that I just find something to talk about most of the time:D

Most of the time when I'm alone I have my characters think aloud. So that keeps me busy as well.

Edited by barto300

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1 minute ago, barto300 said:

I understand. Maybe it just doesn't bother me a that much when it happens. But then again I can make people crazy IRL because of talking too much so it might be that I just find something to talk about most of the time:D

The thing I find frustrating is the avoiding RP in favor of “gearing up” but avoiding RP using some BS reason and not being able to have any other choice other than to just walk away and search elsewhere for RP. 

In order for RP to happen both parties need to be willing, and it seems since there is no fear of being robbed everyone is avoiding RP in favor of gathering gear and then RPing but only as justification to PvP.

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11 minutes ago, NebulousCass said:

The thing I find frustrating is the avoiding RP in favor of “gearing up” but avoiding RP using some BS reason and not being able to have any other choice other than to just walk away and search elsewhere for RP. 

In order for RP to happen both parties need to be willing, and it seems since there is no fear of being robbed everyone is avoiding RP in favor of gathering gear and then RPing but only as justification to PvP.

Well I think that gearRP will always be around in some form. I've seen it often enough that civilians walk around in full military gear and I think that What @MeenMuginLovin said about flaws might help with this. Just a example (and I took it on my character a bit far), But one of my characters, Bonifacio, is fat, and I mean really fat. So fat he's not able to wear any military vests or clothing since those kinds of clothing are for "real soldiers".
Adding something as a flaw mechanic (like on the DnD character sheet) you're able to create limitations. Because by adding limitations you create creativity.
But i've only been really active on this community since the end of january so I've still got much to learn and these ideas might be terrible.

Edited by barto300

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I'ma say something a bit controversial (oh boy surprise!) 

GearRP.... is not inherantly bad. 

Now hold the breaks before you give me a 10 minute rant about why i'm scum of the earth for thinking this but, what I mean is there are two types of GearRP. 

First:

-I am a civie in full military cause lol muh gear

Second:

-I am gonna take everyone's shit because survival of the fittest, I am gonna rob you because I want your backpack / I haven't eaten steak in a while and you got some / I really like you jacket.  (Think the Claimers from the walking dead). 

GearRP could be done well (hell it was sorta my point in the first reply to this thread) but alas, the idiots ruined for the rest of us... and now noone is allowed to rob unless they got super amazing RP reasons that would make Aristotle blush at how deep the meaning is. 

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Isn't it also a question of personal preference, though? I mean, if @The Traveler wants to run up on me and rob me of something I'm carrying, I'm not going to report him for a damn thing if he makes sure to play it out properly. If he does the whole "drop wep 10 sec" then runs off, sure, I'll drag him into a report, but if he takes his time with it and plays the role of a thieving scumbag properly, I'm certainly not going to run to the reports section because of "muh gears."

In my opinion, robberies should be a shit load more common. There should be rules, yes, but they should be in place to punish bad robberies, not prevent them almost entirely.

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11 hours ago, Psycho said:

Essentially, if the problem is to be fixed we need to bring back FEAR

I would love to see that back THE FEAR I remember back when I first joined and was going north, I was alone I was decked but I still had the uneasy feeling I was being followed and with all the rumors that were going round did not help me or the fear helped, so anywho I was going north and to the right where the tree line was I started to see the wooden torches come to life one by one, it was at night and there ended up being 7 to 10 of them, I stopped and IG I had a massive crap and in IRL I could feel the adrenaling, I ran west and found a town as I looked back to the other tree line I saw the torchers liting up again before they dissepeded in to the forest, now that's what I loved about dayzrp back then, we do need more fear we need more good RP  hosltile RP too and yes we need to make so it's not just about yourself 

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Gonna write a quick reply for this because I've been thinking about this kind of topic a lot recently but I don't have much time.

I've been spending time in a different RP, a rebirth of one I used to play years ago, since the RP is much more popular and community much less toxic than it used to be since it went private.

It's also a survival-based RP set in the snowy hell of Greenland. Anyone can fight, anyone can die and you roll up brand new characters should your main one(s) die.
People love it.

It's based on the "Play to lose" mentality, which I find strange enough personally, but it works because people will create in-depth characters, commit to stories and plots, and then die in realistic and timely manners.

It results in the fabled "Selfless RP" that people talk about here, caring more for other's fun rather than your own, but in reality everyone's having fun because everyone is invested in the overall story, rather than their characters, though they still add depth and detail to their characters.

Slight difference here: The focus is on the characters, rather than the story, so most is invested in their own and not others. It's not a flaw in the system, it's a result of the system.

Of course I get what the overarching point here is, so I've come with ideas:

1) Retract the restrictions (Plus other changes) 

What others here have said, remove the rules that disallow random robberies, tighten the rules on bad robberies. Robberies will result in roleplay and anything that doesn't will get reported, eventually removing people who commit BadRP as a factor. I'd also suggest creating guidelines that, if adhered to, would fully assure your innocence in a false report. That's up to the staff team, give the community what you look for in your `case-by-case` report analysis in a guide format, make it a part of the rules.

2) Give people a common enemy

As people have said, there's no fear or danger in DayZ right now because the zombies and animals just aren't enough of a threat to outclass other people. If there was such a threat, people could still commit hostilities but they'd be more likely to stick together out of safety.

I'd suggest Permadeath again but we all know how that goes, so I'll refrain from going down that route. Instead, a designated lore group to come harass / clear out the populace of Chernarus, whether they be healthy or infected. Make them dangerous and everyone else will steer towards each other and bundle up for protection. 

In the RP I'm in, the common enemy is mutated animals (So the zombie equivalent, except they're actually dangerous). But that's not it, there's also a private military force operating in the region with instructions to snag, bag and tag natives/foreigners in Greenland and kill the guys who resist for as-of-yet unknown reasons. 
People still fight among themselves, but they're more than happy to work together if it means they live to bicker and bite another day.

That's one for the lore team to figure out.

 

DayZ is suffering from a sincere issue regarding lack of admin tools, so it's extremely difficult / impossible to track people in-game and knowing their status, what they're doing, etc. For example, we could enforce the requirement to roleplay injuries after a death if an admin could see someone had died, invisibly teleports to them five minutes after their death and sees them sprinting along, having a nice chat with some guy on the coast.
But that kind of stuff doesn't exist as of yet, so making people actually roleplay properly isn't an option.

 

Coming from me, I don't like hostilities all that much. I'm quite the control freak and I don't like not knowing what's behind that tree before I walk past it, so playing DayZRP actually makes me anxious since I have no idea if I'm going to get stopped in my tracks for an hour by a bandit or if I'll be able to run all the way to Polkovo to help an injured guy. Simultaneously, the complete lack of danger is exhaustingly boring, I empathise with the people here who've said as much.
As much as I dislike excessive hostility, some people enjoy it and it's not my place to tell them what they should and shouldn't enjoy.
As much as I like it here, the game in its current state isn't for me and I have a tough time enjoying myself or the company of others when I play for various reasons, so I've been on both sides of the coin now and I understand.

The rules are strangling this place. @Rolle, if you won't listen to me then please heed the words of these experienced and active roleplayers. Hostility is as much a part of DayZRP as anything else is and it needs the free-form freedom everything else has. You have systems in place to deal with excessive or outright bad hostile roleplay, so let the systems function, let the staff do their work so that the players can do what they enjoy.

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When playing the server I still get a sense of fear, but like mentioned before I have realized in the last few weeks of me playing that you have to create your own. I can be honest with you, I used to struggle a lot to find RP and build stories with other people and that was possible due to the fact that my characters always seemed emotionally weak. It wasn't my RP, it was more about how I initially created the character which stopped me from doing certain things, such as initiating on people, Using guns, torture and other similar areas. Took me until recently to come up with a solution, and that was to let the people with stories drag you in! Sounds pretty cheap, but it works and it's fun once you really get into the nitty gritty situations.

Probably wondering how I got around to doing this? Simple! 

I created a child character (which I know are getting irritating, but children do exist you know) and then gave him his flaws, such as being difficult to make friends with, fear of weapons after seeing his family knocked and shot dead, but then I gave him his decent strengths such as being able to make a fire and a fishing rod because he was a little adventurer before the apocalypse. Also, by making him Chernarussian I was able to give him instant recognition and people began to wonder what I was all about. 

So how do you get dragged in?

I'm not talking about what the cat did, I'm going back to the point of were I mentioned that it would be the best idea to get dragged into RP. Some of you probably recognize my character already as "Patient 1", Yeah I know, that damn annoying kid. Patient 1 was able to get dragged into a story just by "creating fear" like I said at the beginning, by adding fear someone came along and saw a young boy scared for his life and decided to take him to the doctor, which eventually experimented on him and kept him stuck in a cycle with her, what I mean is that she actually found a way for him to constantly be involved which was amazing, I stuck with the theme and created my own little scenarios with people I met and now I can easily have a conversation with someone because of the amount of stuff the doctors story and my story has caused, but also the fact that when someone asks my name, I say "Patient 1" and then thats it, a load of questions are fired at me!

What does this have to do with Hostile RP and not getting what I want?

Well it all links doesn't it? If you are able to create a flaw that people can notice and also add your own features that people can recognize and seem sus, you can easily get yourself out of the stereotypical activity and eventually and maybe you could get involved with groups that can help you out and get involved!

 

I hope this little post helps someone out there because we really need less leaving threads, they make me sad :( 

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So, without reading through the discussions having taken place I will say this. 

I think our PVP Rules are fine, because they promote RP and not PvP or quick robberies. 

Secondly, there is fear! You have to legit work it yourself. Currently, my Char. is scared of people due to past experiences. She doesn't approach people or strangers alone and hides when there's someone who resembles the ones who have hurt her. She wasn't always that way but she is now for the time being. 

I find that when one is scared. Others pick up on it and get scared too, or build off of that. There's no need to allow for GearRP Robberies to bring back a sense of "Fear". Everyone should be VERY Cautious because it is the end of the world and anything could happen. Those who play really friendly, and run up to you all "Hey! How's the weather!" Aren't keeping in mind what kind of world and what kinda messed up stuff has happened recently. 

I find people shrug off Torture, Murder, Death like it's nothing. I recall RP'ing being SUPER scared of infected when we first did our LW. Now, if i hear of someone getting killed I take it as a serious and scary thing! 

If my friends say, "We were tortured." my char. gets scared! Some people just say, "Oh? That sucks. Sorry." And move on. 

-

In saying that, I agree. People SHOULD have flaws, and traits that are negative and RP those out. But forcing them isn't gonna work I think ... Right now my char. is scared of Sheds. I added that from prior RP and even though I'm not sitting there all, "*SEE A SHED, AND SHAKES.*" I make a point to NOT go in them, or close to them unless I have to OOCly. (To log or something.) If people are engaged enough, they'll notice and RP with that point. 

-

Sometimes people need to also step out of the spotlight and allow others to take center stage. This was a huge reason I took a break, because so many people around me were solely focused on themselves and their own chars. not caring about the others around them. If they didn't get the attention they wanted, they'd simply swap to a new char. and do the same thing over and over again. I got really tired of offering supporting RP to them only for them to brush off my char or others and our RP in favor of themselves. 

-

Also; I'm with you on conflict. But I think internal conflict can make a lot of good RP. Right now Aristo's char Will is SUPER paranoid and that creates awesome conflict internally. He distrusts and is ready to run at the first sign of trouble, and other chars close to mine don't want him to do that and take my char. away into possible danger. But it makes sense ICly and it works wonders for group conflict! Not all conflict needs to be external, maybe conflict can even be non-physical like a mental disorder or a char. not reaching a goal. 

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10 hours ago, Marcoooz said:

You could easily add to this "standard" conversation yourself.

"Hey there, nice weather huh?"
"Yeah, I suppose?"
"Well, I got friends nearby so I gotta go!"

 

At this point in the conversation, think of what you got going on atm, say if you are looking for somebody.

"Hey, before you go, you seen a guy yada yada, about yay high and sounds like he's got a tumor in his mouth?"
"Uh, you mean "Yada Yada"? Yeah I spotted him over in Kabanino talking to some dude in a trench coat."

This was a piss poor example but it gets the point across. People need to stop complaining about the community when they are most likely part of the problem themselves.

We are the problem because we are the community. We need to at least try and change our mentalities to better oursleves firstly, then the community will change in turn.

10 hours ago, Rolle said:

Comparing DayZ to D&D is not really a good example IMO. DayZ is essentially a PvP survival game, we on DayZRP try to replace the PvP element with RP, something that isn't easy and due to the PvP mindset we must restrict the gameplay with many rules to prevent abuse. D&D is specifically created for RP and doesn't have to deal with the PvP mentality and "I have to win" and "my way or the highway" attitude that DayZ players have. I don't believe there is any solution to fixing this, it's just the way DayZ as a game and it's playerbase is. 

I completely disagree that removing the restrictions we have in place that limit PvP will benefit the community. Allowing PvP players to dominate the server once again by initiating and torturing everything that moves or bringing "fear" will not help solve this. If anything, it will discourage less PvP focused players to even log in into the game or make them quit the community altogether, which we have seen examples of as recently as this week (see leaving threads). If what you want to do is walk up to a stranger and point a gun at them then I suggest public servers, they are great for that kind of thing.

I agree it'll be tough, and will most likely deter some players at first. However the main point of this is to try and make people see if they put others RP before their own, then for both sides it will better the way of life and quality of RP given and recieved. Adding flaws just seems like another step in the right direction. At least just adding them to the character pages. Giving people the option to add to their story and ultimately create enough conflict to affect others. 

8 hours ago, Mass said:

Gonna write a quick reply for this because I've been thinking about this kind of topic a lot recently but I don't have much time.

I've been spending time in a different RP, a rebirth of one I used to play years ago, since the RP is much more popular and community much less toxic than it used to be since it went private.

It's also a survival-based RP set in the snowy hell of Greenland. Anyone can fight, anyone can die and you roll up brand new characters should your main one(s) die.
People love it.

It's based on the "Play to lose" mentality, which I find strange enough personally, but it works because people will create in-depth characters, commit to stories and plots, and then die in realistic and timely manners.

It results in the fabled "Selfless RP" that people talk about here, caring more for other's fun rather than your own, but in reality everyone's having fun because everyone is invested in the overall story, rather than their characters, though they still add depth and detail to their characters.

Slight difference here: The focus is on the characters, rather than the story, so most is invested in their own and not others. It's not a flaw in the system, it's a result of the system.

Of course I get what the overarching point here is, so I've come with ideas:

1) Retract the restrictions (Plus other changes) 

What others here have said, remove the rules that disallow random robberies, tighten the rules on bad robberies. Robberies will result in roleplay and anything that doesn't will get reported, eventually removing people who commit BadRP as a factor. I'd also suggest creating guidelines that, if adhered to, would fully assure your innocence in a false report. That's up to the staff team, give the community what you look for in your `case-by-case` report analysis in a guide format, make it a part of the rules.

2) Give people a common enemy

As people have said, there's no fear or danger in DayZ right now because the zombies and animals just aren't enough of a threat to outclass other people. If there was such a threat, people could still commit hostilities but they'd be more likely to stick together out of safety.

I'd suggest Permadeath again but we all know how that goes, so I'll refrain from going down that route. Instead, a designated lore group to come harass / clear out the populace of Chernarus, whether they be healthy or infected. Make them dangerous and everyone else will steer towards each other and bundle up for protection. 

In the RP I'm in, the common enemy is mutated animals (So the zombie equivalent, except they're actually dangerous). But that's not it, there's also a private military force operating in the region with instructions to snag, bag and tag natives/foreigners in Greenland and kill the guys who resist for as-of-yet unknown reasons. 
People still fight among themselves, but they're more than happy to work together if it means they live to bicker and bite another day.

That's one for the lore team to figure out.

 

DayZ is suffering from a sincere issue regarding lack of admin tools, so it's extremely difficult / impossible to track people in-game and knowing their status, what they're doing, etc. For example, we could enforce the requirement to roleplay injuries after a death if an admin could see someone had died, invisibly teleports to them five minutes after their death and sees them sprinting along, having a nice chat with some guy on the coast.
But that kind of stuff doesn't exist as of yet, so making people actually roleplay properly isn't an option.

 

Coming from me, I don't like hostilities all that much. I'm quite the control freak and I don't like not knowing what's behind that tree before I walk past it, so playing DayZRP actually makes me anxious since I have no idea if I'm going to get stopped in my tracks for an hour by a bandit or if I'll be able to run all the way to Polkovo to help an injured guy. Simultaneously, the complete lack of danger is exhaustingly boring, I empathise with the people here who've said as much.
As much as I dislike excessive hostility, some people enjoy it and it's not my place to tell them what they should and shouldn't enjoy.
As much as I like it here, the game in its current state isn't for me and I have a tough time enjoying myself or the company of others when I play for various reasons, so I've been on both sides of the coin now and I understand.

The rules are strangling this place. @Rolle, if you won't listen to me then please heed the words of these experienced and active roleplayers. Hostility is as much a part of DayZRP as anything else is and it needs the free-form freedom everything else has. You have systems in place to deal with excessive or outright bad hostile roleplay, so let the systems function, let the staff do their work so that the players can do what they enjoy.

+1 I love the idea's to get LM's behind this to assist in giving people a core story to try and help along. Something that can be added to current lore to make their lifes easier me thinks. 

 

I will add more later

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This has been a topic as long as I have been here but it seems like a more ever-present discussion now more than ever.

Some people see this not as an RP community it seems but more like "Stereotypical Protagonist from most video games". Their story is the only one that matters because when you look only through one lens that is all you are capable of. There will just always be these people.

It would be nice to have dynamic group rules back in some capacity but maybe one day.

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1 minute ago, Chief said:

This has been a topic as long as I have been here but it seems like a more ever-present discussion now more than ever.

Some people see this not as an RP community it seems but more like "Stereotypical Protagonist from most video games". Their story is the only one that matters because when you look only through one lens that is all you are capable of. There will just always be these people.

It would be nice to have dynamic group rules back in some capacity but maybe one day.

I just want to try an find ways to encourage people to think or look outside that lense as you put it. Character flaws on pages would be a cool little push for people to voluntarily add them.

I think dynamic groups could definitely help out as well. Then would comes the matter of redoing everything that the staff has already changed to improve the situations regarding the influx of PvP. I think if reworked properly, dynamics could and should definitely be added back. 

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I like becoming immersed, and in my opinion the most immersive RP is good hostile RP. If you cant make a robbery fun for both parties that should be considered bad RP and you shouldnt mug people if you cant make it fun, however if you can make the hostilities enjoyable and immersive it really doesn't matter why someone is being mugged. Personally if someone mugs me for my gun but makes it intense and immersive i wont report.

The rules currently are bad, as Rolle said above this communities purpose is to replace PvP with RP, which i understand but knowing that you can walk around with a biggest gun without having to fear that someones gonna wanna take it from you becomes boring, ever since the rules have changed i no longer fear anything, a few years ago if i ran into someone who seemed unstable it put me on edge, even walking around with a FAL was scary, because it is a desirable weapon but now no matter who i run into i no longer fear being robbed because "its against the rules". Reverting the rules to how they once were will make it so unstable characters become scary again, and walking around his all the best loot becomes dangerous again. its an apocalypse not a lets all help each other simulator.

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46 minutes ago, Mortico said:

I like becoming immersed, and in my opinion the most immersive RP is good hostile RP. If you cant make a robbery fun for both parties that should be considered bad RP and you shouldnt mug people if you cant make it fun, however if you can make the hostilities enjoyable and immersive it really doesn't matter why someone is being mugged. Personally if someone mugs me for my gun but makes it intense and immersive i wont report.

The rules currently are bad, as Rolle said above this communities purpose is to replace PvP with RP, which i understand but knowing that you can walk around with a biggest gun without having to fear that someones gonna wanna take it from you becomes boring, ever since the rules have changed i no longer fear anything, a few years ago if i ran into someone who seemed unstable it put me on edge, even walking around with a FAL was scary, because it is a desirable weapon but now no matter who i run into i no longer fear being robbed because "its against the rules". Reverting the rules to how they once were will make it so unstable characters become scary again, and walking around his all the best loot becomes dangerous again. its an apocalypse not a lets all help each other simulator.

RP goes both ways. Yes, people who initiate should know what they're doing and do it well, but if someone is unwilling to RP because they're being robbed. Hence why the rules were changed to protect those people. Then honestly it should be on the party who has given up RPing or is just being upset OOC about the robbery and making the taker's life difficult, to make the RP progress. Not be in a term "OOC salty". Again, putting others RP before their own.

The other point you made I agree with, as it's been said numerous times. My suggestions though small I feel could bring back a more subtle fear that gives people their own ability to do with it and take it as far as they'd want.

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4 hours ago, Mortico said:

 

The rules currently are bad, as Rolle said above this communities purpose is to replace PvP with RP

I fully disagree with this to be honest. This community's purpose is to find a perfect balance between rp and pvp, that is where I think it's currently going wrong. This game is a pvp game at it's core and you're trying to strip that away. Great rp needs pvp. And of course pvp also needs rp.

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1 hour ago, Wunsleh said:

I fully disagree with this to be honest. This community's purpose is to find a perfect balance between rp and pvp, that is where I think it's currently going wrong. This game is a pvp game at it's core and you're trying to strip that away. Great rp needs pvp. And of course pvp also needs rp.

I do aswell, it removes a certain middle ground between normal friendly RP and straight up firefights. Recently the only hostile RP ive been involved in, is firefights and 99% of the other RP is small talk. i no longer think to myself "What is this persons intentions with me?" when i run into them, because i know it doesn't matter what their intentions are because they cant rob me without "breaking the rules" so they stick so the same boring "hey how are you, where'd you come from, nice, bye"

IMO the rules should go back to how they were, but having a shitty initiation or a "10 sec drop wep" scenario would fall under BadRP instead if Invalid Initiation. In my opinion the reason this rule was changed to how it is currently is because there were a ton of people who suck at hostile RP, attempting to do hostile RP.

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