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Mexi

Allow the robbery for items once again.

Should we revert to allow hostilities to build off of robberies? (6.1 and 6.2 change/ removal)  

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The title says it all really.

Recently the addition of rules were put in place to the point where you have to have a reason through means of RP to rob someone, while I understand.. This is an RP server, as mentioned on another thread recently with this rule you're stripping DayZ for what it actually is and for what the game itself actually is, survival. As much as people kicked and screamed about losing their precious items, that's how it would be.. Survival of the fittest, you WOULD lose your shiny M4 etc if someone has the upper hand and needs/ wants what you have.

We already had rules in place for bad robberies to be reported through the BadRP rule, after the addition of both 6.1 and 6.2 have made it so that roleplay is prohibited to the point where it's very difficult to start hostilities with a group or play a character that differs from the usual "Nice" or "Hostile". While I understand the addition due to complaints, it's rather simple and easy to handle.. As @Zero put in the first paragraph of his post on this thread.

I'll put it into a spoiler for those that can't be bothered clicking:

Spoiler

Robbery for gear should have never been removed anyways. We've essentially stripped a massive component of DayZ out of DayZ simply because people were getting upset because they lost their M4. A solution would be to meet halfway, use common sense if a report goes up, and change it to where you can't strip everything away from someone during a robbery, only take their gun, or their backpack with its contents and just leave it at that. That way we can actually be, I don't know, bandits on a zombie survival game that is all about survival through any means. 

I'll add a poll, I'd like some suggestions for the rule change and why if possible below as suggestions generally don't go through without an alternative.. I have enabled it so I can see who has voted for the 3rd option so they can be called in to give a suggestion, if they have one.. Saying that, I'd also like to know a reason as to why people have voted for what they have if they feel like giving a reason as to why.

Once I come up with my own I'll also be editing this post with my addition.

Cheers.

Edited by Mexi

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This is a big one tbh. I do like the idea of removing this just because if we were being realistic and I needed food, ammunition and this guy had it or wouldn't give it me, I would so use brutal force to get it. Its about survival like you said. But then again people will just go round robbing people all the time and there would be so many reports for pointless things so I dunno what to vote!?

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My thoughts were already stated in this thread and the other thread. I voted "Change/ edit both rules to suit how hostilities can grow naturally through the means of robbery (Comment below with suggestion)" but really I would be fine and think the option "Remove them, reverting to how hostilities were done previously" works as well. Going over the the new rules / changes, some of the changes are just really odd.

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1 minute ago, DrMax said:

This is a big one tbh. I do like the idea of removing this just because if we were being realistic and I needed food, ammunition and this guy had it or wouldn't give it me, I would so use brutal force to get it. Its about survival like you said. But then again people will just go round robbing people all the time and there would be so many reports for pointless things so I dunno what to vote!?

If there was a reason for doing so, and the ROLEPLAY (bare in mind that's what we're all here for) was good and well within the rules.. What's the issue? You've then got a story arc for your character to follow. 

- Revenge 

- Finding friends to protect yourselves

There's loads of RP that can stem off of robberies such as this, hell.. You might even become friends with someone if their sob story for robbing you is good enough!

Edited by Mexi

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1 minute ago, Mexi said:

If there was a reason for doing so, and the ROLEPLAY (bare in mind that's what we're all here for) was good and well within the rules.. What's the issue? You've then got a story arc for your character to follow. 

- Revenge 

I agree but some other people don't care, they just like the gear. I don't mind giving people my stuff if they give RP. What I don't like is people taking my stuff, giving little RP and then running off, and I'm worried that this might bring people like that back to the server.

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6 minutes ago, DrMax said:

I agree but some other people don't care, they just like the gear. I don't mind giving people my stuff if they give RP. What I don't like is people taking my stuff, giving little RP and then running off, and I'm worried that this might bring people like that back to the server.

This is why there's an option to change the rules.

If the RP isn't up to the standards that have been set for the community then you can report it, just as I said before.. it's all based off of your own opinion, not good enough? Throw up a report or talk to the people and inform them how they can fix this issue.

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I'm just going to throw this onto the thread, if the main point of your argument is that you'll be robbed for your items then you are a rather large part of the issue taking place. Play for the RP, not for the ability to keep a high end item 24/7.

Edited by Mexi

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Tbh , i am quite anyoed at the fact that the whole rule got removed in total along with dynamics. Sure there are alot of bad apples that abuse it , but isn't there people that abuse most rules and the punishment for them is a ban. So why do we have to remove an entire rule (or add a new one) , if all you have to do is report them. 

Makes the server 10x more confusing and frustrating and all around no fun. Switch back tbh.

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Just now, Mexi said:

This is why there's an option to change the rules.

If the RP isn't up to the standards that have been set for the community then you can report it, just as I said before.. it's all based off of your own opinion, not good enough? Throw up a report or talk to the people and inform them how they can fix this issue.

I guess but people will be doing that all the time and the report section would get a lot more of them. I will vote yes though as I would like to see how this will role out and see what everyone else says..

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Just now, DrMax said:

I guess but people will be doing that all the time and the report section would get a lot more of them. I will vote yes though as I would like to see how this will role out and see what everyone else says..

It's what the report section is there for, to remove the bad weeds.

Appreciate the chat!

1 minute ago, Saints said:

Tbh , i am quite anyoed at the fact that the whole rule got removed in total along with dynamics. Sure there are alot of bad apples that abuse it , but isn't there people that abuse most rules and the punishment for them is a ban. So why do we have to remove an entire rule (or add a new one) , if all you have to do is report them. 

Makes the server 10x more confusing and frustrating and all around no fun. Switch back tbh.

Thread isn't about dynamics, I don't mind that as much. 

Overall the rule additions stated in the original post make me feel as if the admins can't trust the community/ playerbase.

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 I got robbed by two fully decked out military guys today who took my gear and left within a period of 15 mins. The RP was shit so in my opinion keep the rules the way they are to prevent people from shitty experiences like mine.

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Just now, Franko said:

 I got robbed by two fully decked out military guys today who took my gear and left within a period of 15 mins. The RP was shit so in my opinion keep the rules the way they are to prevent people from shitty experiences like mine.

Then you should be reporting it, what about the RP in particular upset you might I ask?

If you felt that the RP was shit the report section is there for a reason.. Don't allow that to continue at the expense of natural roleplay being able to occur.

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I think the current rules are too tight. I think the previous could be too lose. I'd like to see robberies occur because they did strike fear for some people and they just sparked up more hostility. I would hope though they occur within reason. GearRP became an issue when the rules were very loose and most hostile RP consisted of holding people up, stripping them down and not really roleplaying. I think if a new rule is in place it should kinda reflect the current 6.1 in that it should be fairly justified. Not extremely, it shouldn't require a checklist or have the same strictness it does now but it shouldn't just be because you are bored. I would think being someone who is hungry and needs to take food from someone is fair enough. Just be reasonable.

I think 6.2 should be removed. I liked when people played crazy goons. One great experience for me while playing was being held up by cannibals who cut my finger off and tasted it. Crazy people give the atmosphere IG some edge. It makes it kinda spoopy to travel alone in the woods or at night knowing they could hold you up or be hostile just because they are crazy or a bandit.

Edited by Glitch

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I understand you want it back... and like DrMax said, people will abuse it. Yes you can report them to sort out bad weeds...

But I think it will be much harder to evaluate if enough or even good RP was given. Thats really subjective.

Some peoples standards are higher (Im guilty in that) than others and that will cause bad blood:

A: "I gave you good enough of RP"

B: "No you didnt it was horrible, you do not even sound like you were RP-ing"

A: "What do you expect of me, Im not an actor, you just salty"

So on...

TLDR: It is currently easier to determain for staff, if the reason is there rather than the quality of RP.

Edited by Shanoby

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I am out of the loop. If I have a shotgun, and a guy has an M4, and I want the M4 I cannot rob the person to better my gun situation? Thats against the rules now?

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In my opinion, change it back. As long as good RP is provided, robbery shouldn't be something people are bitching about ooc'ly. It is an apocalypse setting, people are going to want each other's things and that's that. If good RP is not provided then simply report it.

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6 minutes ago, JoffreyRP said:

I am out of the loop. If I have a shotgun, and a guy has an M4, and I want the M4 I cannot rob the person to better my gun situation? Thats against the rules now?

Pretty sure the big man has said robbing someone for their items isn't a good enough reason.

7 minutes ago, Shanoby said:

I understand you want it back... and like DrMax said, people will abuse it. Yes you can report them to sort out bad weeds...

But I think it will be much harder to evaluate if enough or even good RP was given. Thats really subjective.

Some peoples standards are higher than others and that will cause bad blood:

A: "I gave you good enoguh of RP"

B: "No you didnt it was horrible, you do not even sound like you are RP-ing"

A: "What do you expect of me, Im not an actor"

So on...

TLDR: It is currently easier to determain for staff, if the reason is there rather than the quality of RP.

Which is why people should be encouraged to record, if your PC is a potato record at 30 instead of 60 and it doesn't really do much.

Determination for staff in reports shouldn't be how 'fun' in a community works, it should be based off of allowing creativity to flow.. Not choking it to the point where if you fart at the wrong time you're sat on the naughty step for a few days.

Edited by Mexi

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I totally get the point, and I somewhat agree with it but could also see why many would be against it. But when taking it to the perspective of realism, there isn't much to say. There are too many rules that already break the idea of realism, such as the no-KOS rule for example. In a realistic "survival of the fittest" scenario I would shoot someone in the leg if they even came close to me armed with their weapon drawn. 

I'm really split on this one though. There are problems with both allowing and disallowing it. The only solution I can think of so far (that could satisfy the vast majority) is having a larger section of the map being less restrictive. An area where some rules don't apply. 

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3 minutes ago, Max said:

I totally get the point, and I somewhat agree with it but could also see why many would be against it. But when taking it to the perspective of realism, there isn't much to say. There are too many rules that already break the idea of realism, such as the no-KOS rule for example. In a realistic "survival of the fittest" scenario I would shoot someone in the leg if they even came close to me armed with their weapon drawn. 

I'm really split on this one though. There are problems with both allowing and disallowing it. The only solution I can think of so far (that could satisfy the vast majority) is having a larger section of the map being less restrictive. An area where some rules don't apply. 

Realism probably wasn't the best idea for me to put forward in this case, because clearly as shown with the underline it's rather easy to counter. The main point I was trying to get at was how fluid hostilities can be built off of robberies such as these taking what you need and releasing them.

I'd rather not have a 'red zone' kinda thing, doesn't float well with RP really.. 'Wanna go there? Nah, if we go to that particular spot for some reason everyone robs everyone but here in Kabanino we're fine'.

Edited by Mexi

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To be fair when i first joined, i was new to RP in games, but despite this rule i figured some people would continue to rob people kinda regardless like one of you said yeah there's bad eggs that abuse it and provide lets be real, very shit RP those said robbers wouldn't have even spoken to me unless i tried communicating first, and i hate that, im meant to be in fear in that situation and scared for my life. with the Rule itself i do think it'd be great to remove it from a time i've been here as it'd be far more realistic people coming along and robbing individuals who are there for food, water, Weapons, ammo etc. (maybe even personally items just to hurt the person if they disliked said character). The only thing i've really seen from that rule is the fact i can basically say no to some robbers to them doing stuff and basically not being able to take hostile action or do much because my character decided i'd rather keep my stuff all because they failed to make me feel intimidated or scared.

I'd much rather feel those emotions in my character when getting robbed so i wouldn't argue remove it entirely but maybe tweak it a bit and make it more easy going as robbery would be a very daily thing, hell even murder would be in these times and i think people genuinely in fear would lead to better story arcs for characters and how they see the world in general.

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12 minutes ago, Mexi said:

Realism probably wasn't the best idea for me to put forward in this case, because clearly as shown with the underline it's rather easy to counter. The main point I was trying to get at was how fluid hostilities can be built off of robberies such as these taking what you need and releasing them.

I'd rather not have a 'red zone' kinda thing, doesn't float well with RP really.. 'Wanna go there? Nah, if we go to that particular spot for some reason everyone robs everyone but here in Kabanino we're fine'.

Right, though I feel like 'taking what you need' can be a very broad and subjective term. There is potential of a lot of abuse here (as mentioned by others). However, if the community makes sure to do their part and if the admins take care of the abusers, then we really could achieve something better. It's just a matter of how much work the staff are willing to do, if there would be an increase in reports because of this, etc. 

At the end of the day I do agree with this idea, but I cannot say that it won't bring problems with it - minor or not.

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I think the rules should be removed in my personal opinion, I feel like people need to learn to fight back or run. Because all this casual talking as you pass by someone is so depressing. Those that provide great hostile RP should have the chance of winning an award for their group, or individual hostile roleplay.

#FreeTheInitiations

Edited by Finn

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I agree now, let’s see this role out hopefully :)  

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As a groupless campfire RPer, I can confirm that robbery was one of the only things that brought me towards actual hostilities.

Now I don't even feel at risk 90% of the time I play.

 

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Thinking this idea over I have to say I agree with it

i believe implementing this would take some of the pressure off of large groups to constantly fight, leading to more small encounters, rather than day in day out large group initiations

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51 minutes ago, Finn said:

I think the rules should be removed in my personal opinion, I feel like people need to learn to fight back or run. Because all this casual talking as you pass by someone is so depressing. Those that provide great hostile RP should have the chance of winning an award for their group, or individual hostile roleplay.

#FreeTheInitiations

I very much agree with this. I haven't played DayZRP or DayZ in months. I mostly play DayZ only for DayZRP. Before the hostility rule change casual talking and walking happened but not like it does now, it wasn't as depressing. Now it's very dull. We are all role players, artists. We are trying to create a world, paint a picture. We are told we are in an apocalypse, a world of danger, excitement, beauty, sadness. Although you may not paint it this way, this way or this way. It's role play, it shouldn't be so rule tight right now. 

Don't get me wrong the staff do a good job with the rules and it's not like we are chained down but there needs to be a little more room to run. 

Rule 5.3 says to not prioritize rule play over role play. 

5.3 You may not focus on out of character gains to the detriment of RP. "Rule play" is prioritizing kill rights, rules or OOC information above more appropriate IC actions or behavior. Always prioritize role play over rule play.

It feels like we are being told to prioritize rule play. By focusing on rules that reduce hostile action there are present out of character gains to the detriment of RP. Players now have this out of character gain in that they don't have to deal with hostilities very often and may also become very attached to their gear. Less players who want to play a hostile character don't get as many opportunities to in an apocalyptic world where realistically people would likely be more aggressive and dangerous. Such a low amount of hostilities doesn't seem like appropriate actions or behavior IC in a world where people may need to steal and be aggressive for supplies like food and meds. With loose rules hostile players have the advantage because they can abuse it and take lots of gear. Both sides are a form of GearRP. We need a good balance.

Edited by Glitch

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