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GaryCash

New Kill Rights Rules PvP Situation Question

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Hey, so I have a question


Scenario:

Your character is initiated and you immediately dart away and start running, radioing to any of your allies in the area that are in your Official group.  

 

Someone recieves this transmission ICly, but their character is not currently logged in game.  

 

If they log in game, and they are at a distance where them logging into game and trying to assist is not considered Ghosting

 

Would they then gain the kill rights that their group members shares even though they weren't online for the original initiation?

 

Thanks in advance for any responses!

 

Was curious about this, because now that the 500 meters rule is gone and KOS rights are faction based was wondering if this was now different as well.

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Yes, official group members share kill rights at all times, over any distances, regardless if online or offline. You just can't ghost it right on top of someone.

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Thank you @Rolle for explaining this, this is a really cool feature.

 

I've totally come 180 on this whole new rule set.   

 

You guys were totally right, this was a great idea, I just failed to see at first the reasons why.

 

I was just sad at the time to see Dynamic groups go, but for many reasons this was entirely necessary. 

For one by making people make official groups, it ramps up their recruitment by advertising it, something I hadn't really thought about before the new rule set came around, but have seen the many benefits of after having an official group page.  And that's just one aspect of it.

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Although somewhat irrelevant to the offline rules, I've got a few questions regarding how initiations and nonofficial groups work. 

I sent this PM to an admin who warned me regarding a situation report I was in(video attached), asking him about how the conclusion of the report means that I (the POV) would be punished for false killrights, despite initiating with a friend. There wasn't a response to my later questions as I believe he either missed it or was unsure on how to answer:

 

I feel like a serious re-work is needed with the rules, especially some of the group rules. Despite being the 'leader' of the group cpt, xaiver, flek and a few more are in, but the group isn't official, which limits 'realistic' roleplay a lot.

Imagine a hypothetical situation: We're all sat at a campfire, someone approaches the camp, immediately shoots cpt in the face due to some kill rights he gained earlier. Within rules, this is fine. Although the other members of this unofficial group would be restricted in acting in a realistic way as each and everyone of us would have to individually initiate on the person and question why he just shot our buddy, while he is according to the rules allowed to take down each of us without members of the unofficial group retaliating.

Another hypothetical situation: Someone steals the groups car, one person from our unofficial group stops the vehicle and tells them to get out. They get out, had a shotgun hidden and manage to blast our buddy, but the rest of the group is about 50m down the road, the car thief is able to get back into the car and drive off without the rest of the group shooting at him because they're not within text initiation range, despite having a clear shot on the individual.

 

Are these situations the correct way of following nonofficial group kill rights? If I'm wrong please correct my because myself and fellow group members are seriously confused on what we can and cannot do. If this is the case I really feel like a re-work would be needed, especially for those that don't have the members to, nor want to make an official group.

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11 minutes ago, Stannis said:

Are these situations the correct way of following nonofficial group kill rights?

Yes, that's how it works for people who are not members of an official group - you effectively play solo. You already know how to get around that obstacle - create an official group.

The rules are not intended to be realistic, as we would fail in doing so right at the beginning - with KoS, which is probably the most realistic aspect of survival in post apocalyptic world.

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19 minutes ago, Rolle said:

Yes, that's how it works for people who are not members of an official group - you effectively play solo. You already know how to get around that obstacle - create an official group.

The rules are not intended to be realistic, as we would fail in doing so right at the beginning - with KoS, which is probably the most realistic aspect of survival in post apocalyptic world.

Doesn't that ultimately destroy small rag-tag bandit groups? Or even small dynamic survivor groups? 

It kinda ruins the whole DayZ feel of meeting up with a character, or somebody who you don't know working together to survive against other smaller dynamic groups, either feeling more secure as they can watch your back and or more paranoid that they're gonna turn against you when you least expect it. What's the point of meeting other players on an IC level when you're effectively a solo player no-matter what you do and it really provides no additional small scale faction roleplay? Not only does it prevent smaller bands of people grouping together (3-4 people) without having to be at a serious disadvantage in any hostile/defensive roleplay, it allows the bigger and official groups to further flourish with no opposition from smaller groups due to playing the rules. From the video report, the group we were fighting had the right to kill the dynamic group, but only one member of the dynamic group was actually according to the rules was given kill rights. 

 

I understand that a suspension of disbelief is needed in order to make the game more fun, but adding restrictions to core parts of the game isn't going to allow roleplay to flourish. Regular players that want to play with one another in this lore are unable to as they have to write up a group page, come up with goals other than 'survive' and write out the entire groups lore so that they can play normally together. Players that create group ideas are, from what I've heard from long-term and new members of the community are judged wrongly on simple things, readers provide a bias opinion on peoples group ideas based on whether they've donated if their name is white or not. 

 

Of course KoS would be a realistic perception of the game if it were to be based off actual human instincts without rules, but that isn't what I'm trying to break down. Unofficial groups are pointless with the restrictions put upon them, there is no real reason in my eyes(so far) that can be put against 'if someone shoots your friend, unofficial or not, you can then shoot them back.' 

 

I know that the way to get around this is creating an official group, but this is mostly for those people who simply cannot rally 5 members, or they've grouped up with a bunch of IC randoms from playing and or like myself and my group are trying to write up a well written lore, goals and graphics in order to overcome the whole 'white-name' group stereotypes of being terrible and shallow.

Edited by Stannis

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3 hours ago, Rolle said:

 You just can't ghost it right on top of someone.

So if you or someone initiates in Gorka and they have 3 in Gorka offline they can not log on they have to have the guys out of town to log on to help is that right? 

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1 hour ago, Stannis said:

Doesn't that ultimately destroy small rag-tag bandit groups? Or even small dynamic survivor groups? 

It kinda ruins the whole DayZ feel of meeting up with a character, or somebody who you don't know working together to survive against other smaller dynamic groups, either feeling more secure as they can watch your back and or more paranoid that they're gonna turn against you when you least expect it. What's the point of meeting other players on an IC level when you're effectively a solo player no-matter what you do and it really provides no additional small scale faction roleplay? Not only does it prevent smaller bands of people grouping together (3-4 people) without having to be at a serious disadvantage in any hostile/defensive roleplay, it allows the bigger and official groups to further flourish with no opposition from smaller groups due to playing the rules. From the video report, the group we were fighting had the right to kill the dynamic group, but only one member of the dynamic group was actually according to the rules was given kill rights. 

 

I understand that a suspension of disbelief is needed in order to make the game more fun, but adding restrictions to core parts of the game isn't going to allow roleplay to flourish. Regular players that want to play with one another in this lore are unable to as they have to write up a group page, come up with goals other than 'survive' and write out the entire groups lore so that they can play normally together. Players that create group ideas are, from what I've heard from long-term and new members of the community are judged wrongly on simple things, readers provide a bias opinion on peoples group ideas based on whether they've donated if their name is white or not. 

 

Of course KoS would be a realistic perception of the game if it were to be based off actual human instincts without rules, but that isn't what I'm trying to break down. Unofficial groups are pointless with the restrictions put upon them, there is no real reason in my eyes(so far) that can be put against 'if someone shoots your friend, unofficial or not, you can then shoot them back.' 

 

I know that the way to get around this is creating an official group, but this is mostly for those people who simply cannot rally 5 members, or they've grouped up with a bunch of IC randoms from playing and or like myself and my group are trying to write up a well written lore, goals and graphics in order to overcome the whole 'white-name' group stereotypes of being terrible and shallow.

I'd love to argument for the new group changes all over again, but we've already done it in the announcement thread. We are aware of the unrealistic nature of these rules as well as limitations they impose. We still believe that pros outweigh the cons. 

 

11 minutes ago, Reaper said:

So if you or someone initiates in Gorka and they have 3 in Gorka offline they can not log on they have to have the guys out of town to log on to help is that right? 

That's how ghosting works.

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5 hours ago, Rolle said:

I'd love to argument for the new group changes all over again, but we've already done it in the announcement thread. We are aware of the unrealistic nature of these rules as well as limitations they impose. We still believe that pros outweigh the cons. 

 

That's how ghosting works.

Thanks for clearing it up I just did not know it the new rules change anything in this area 

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 in the example given above if your friend was shot right in front of you all you would have to do would be to point your weapon at the guy who shot him and say drop that weapon you son of a b****

 at that point if the person does anything other than comply with your demands you're free to blast them and I can't see any scenario where Gamemaster would rule against you.

Rules are rules but each situation is still weighed in of itself.  someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe I'm right here

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24 minutes ago, Chris said:

 in the example given above if your friend was shot right in front of you all you would have to do would be to point your weapon at the guy who shot him and say drop that weapon you son of a b****

 at that point if the person does anything other than comply with your demands you're free to blast them and I can't see any scenario where Gamemaster would rule against you.

Rules are rules but each situation is still weighed in of itself.  someone correct me if I'm wrong but I believe I'm right here

Yeah but in a group, if someone shoots one of my friends(group members), I have no need to put myself in any danger. Like- I can just sit on a hill 200m out and pop off the SVD, whereas if you're not in a group, you have to be within earshot range.

IMO, it's lame for those not in a group, but I mean, why not join a group? It's the apocalypse- and the server atm has so much group conflict that it pretty much splits the server as is between 'coalition' and anarchy. I think the rules really push for a more faction-based gameplay and I kinda like it not gunna lie.

 

Like- the reason dynamics seemed like a pain is- in a fight, you wouldn't know if they were good-bad, who you had kill rights on, if they consider themselves dynamic, or just some dude he met 5 mins ago.. It can cause a lot of confusion- so not having it really does weigh the pro's to the cons.

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On 4/10/2018 at 2:42 AM, Stannis said:

-snip-

I know the removal of Dynamics makes things a bit more difficult and to me it actually favors the people initiating on individuals who are traveling together but not in an official group. Yet it is what it is and we have to adapt. 

The only thing you can really do if you run into people IG and decide you all want to travel together as a group is simple. You can get five people and make an official group of your own. You would just need to come up with goals for your group as your lore would pretty much be what happened IG with your characters. Even though survival groups are kind of frowned upon due to them making a group and hiding in the corner of the map not really bringing anything to the server but their own internal RP. Don't do that :) If you make a survival group make it impact the server instead of being another generic walking dead type group of people.

I had a group of people that all met, grew together through IG interactions and more or less became like a family and a group was created. To me that is the most natural way to make an official group and it makes the chemistry within the group IG much more fluid since you've already been together for some time IG. 

Edited by Clumsy

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