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JoffreyRP

Howdy, another RP question!

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Hi guys, this is more of a question for @Rolle as I think the GM team made it more or less clear they are okay with the situation I am about to question.

This verdict here:

 

The verdict was well written, it goes over the obvious slights in the situation, reguarding OOC, the invalid initiation dispute blah blah jargon. +1. 

However, at about 23 minutes into the video the OP goes uncon due to an injury to the leg. The hostage takers, in my biased opinion went above and beyond to try to administer medical RP to the OP, in an attempt to get him to wake up, and continue the RP. Now while I totally agree that a little bit of uncon can definitely add spice, and fun to a roleplay situation; but at what point does the line cross from "adding spice" to "not so nice" and keep in spirit with RP.

As we know, RP is a two way street, and while there was some good correspondence between the med givers and the descriptions of the wound from the OP... how long are hostage takers expected to bring back the life of an uncon person before we are "legally allowed" to give up, and let the patient die. 

There was a solid 30 minutes of uncon going on here and like.. I dont know man.. to me it seems a little pooey.  

 

Is this okay? Can I uncon for 30 after taking a significant RP wound either from a knife or gun? When can I get blasted?  Is it an unreasonable demand for the hostages takers to point a gun at a prone uncon body and say "Wake up or your dead" lol?  What do?   Thanks!

Edited by JoffreyRP

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You mean someone role played that they are unconscious for 30 minutes and refused to respond or wake up? 

That's refusal to RP. You shouldn't emote unconsciousness at all since that mechanic is implemented in game and that's the only thing that should be used IMO

But you don't pop the person that does this, you just leave them and report. 

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I asked the GM team who did this about this question and they said it would be addressed in Victus's appeal if he made one. 

^That doesn't make sense to me........^

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1 hour ago, Rolle said:

You mean someone role played that they are unconscious for 30 minutes and refused to respond or wake up? 

That's refusal to RP. You shouldn't emote unconsciousness at all since that mechanic is implemented in game and that's the only thing that should be used IMO

But you don't pop the person that does this, you just leave them and report. 

Thanks! I agree with your sentiment. No reason to pop.

 

@Para @Brady @Brayces can we get an updated verdict? Or is that not a thing?

Edited by JoffreyRP

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That situation reminds me alot of this one: 

but i cant remember what the verdict of the report was. It would be interesting to find that report and see the verdict for reference.

@Dakotaen  @Sam Fieldsah the memories

Edited by OskuRP

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8 hours ago, JoffreyRP said:

Thanks! I agree with your sentiment. No reason to pop.

 

@Para @Brady @Brayces can we get an updated verdict? Or is that not a thing?

If that's what @Rolle has decided

I think that was a mistake on our part for a different reason to Rolle, and I will personally apologise for that mistake @JoffreyRP, @VictusRP. In all my years i've never heard of roleplaying out being unconscious as being invalid but hey, we all learn right?

Either way Joff, at this point unfortunately at this point an addendum is more or less up the the admins as we can't really change our own verdict. You can PM the admins asking for the admins to look over a report again though, they may overturn the verdict and correct the mistake. 

Sorry again for the mistake, it has been taken on board.

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10 minutes ago, Para said:

If that's what @Rolle has decided then that was a mistake on our part

Not having the same opinion as me is not a mistake :D 

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6 minutes ago, Rolle said:

Not having the same opinion as me is not a mistake :D 

True but that was more for if an addendum happens, but i guess this is why we're discussing this now right? :) 

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1 hour ago, OskuRP said:

That situation reminds me alot of this one: 

 

After Kibuka was done with him he was just a piece of raw meat. It was a mercy killing.

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Good times indeed, @OskuRP.

As for the question at hand, I think 30 minutes is way over the top. 5 to maybe 10 minutes could work, if you're leaving the other side of the RP with something to do. Having a few doctors to "operate" on you could provide great RP, but just being knocked out without them having much to do just spoils the fun. I get the whole "realism" argument, but we don't need that level of realism in RP, in my opinion.

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8 hours ago, Rolle said:

You mean someone role played that they are unconscious for 30 minutes and refused to respond or wake up? 

That's refusal to RP. You shouldn't emote unconsciousness at all since that mechanic is implemented in game and that's the only thing that should be used IMO

But you don't pop the person that does this, you just leave them and report. 

Im confused, how is that any different from permascar. Scaring is also not game mechanic...

I mean, hostage takers can emote/cause injuries that would make person to blackout, yet they are not excpected to deal with their consequences of their RP result?

I thought most RP scenarios and rules are built in the way there is always cause and effect..... This makes me confused.

If you make a person to bleed out and not pressure bandage the gun wound, how would any other medical assistant be valid? I mean, thats basic 1st aid. Deal with the source of the bleeding, the reason for person to go uncon and then stabalize him...

I am in no means of medical expert, but I do beleave most of us have had some 1st aid courses...

Edited by Shanoby

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In my opinion you should be able to emote that you are unconscious. When it is realistic and makes sense in the situation, why should you not be able to do it? 

When you emote to torture someone / or someone shot you and you lost a lot of blood then it makes total sense to fall unconscious. We can't and shouldn't punish someone to realistically play out injuries. Of course the person should wake up at some point to continue the RP, when someone took care of the wounds. 

No talking about the report, just in general. 

Edited by Lyca

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3 minutes ago, Shanoby said:

Im confused, how is that any different from permascar. Scaring is also not game mechanic...

I mean, hostage takers can cause injuries that would make person to blackout, yet they are not excpected to deal with their consequences of their RP result?

I thought most RP scenarios and rules are built in the way there is always cause and effect..... This makes me confused.

If you make a person to bleed out and not pressurebandage the gun wound, how would any other medical assistant be valid? I mean, thats basic 1st aid. Deal with the source of the bleeding, the reason for person to go uncon and then stabalize him...

I am in no means of medical expert, but I do beleave most of us have had some 1st aid courses...

Emoting unconsciousness and refusing to wake up is replacing an existing, working game mechanic with your own dramatic version of it. Regular IC efforts of fixing the condition won't work, since you're not actually unconscious, so any bandages or blood bags applied will not do anything unless the person actually decides to wake up. If used incorrectly, it could result in situations where for example I "faint" at the sight of scary bandits and they can't do jack shit to me. I don't even have to RP anything, just go prone, throw a few emotes about how incapacitated I am and avoid getting robbed, tortured or having to engage in any hostile RP. It's text book avoiding RP.

Permascar is not implemented in game as game mechanic. Therefore we add it ourselves through RP and that's fine, you can then use the imaginary bandages or whatever to get it to heal.

So my opinion is that if there's is an existing game mechanic for something - we should stick to that and not come up with our own versions of it. When it comes to things that are not in game, then it's ok to use imagination and creativity and use make believe for whatever is needed.

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There should be no issue with emoting things that the game provides us mechanics for. People are told to emote punching, hitting, cutting, etc to avoid the risk of killing someone when trying to RP out a situation, even though the game provides us mechanics for that.

Clarification in spoiler below

Spoiler

Just because someone should be able to emote existing mechanics, as with verbal or emoted, any RP if done poorly enough could still be against the rules, but I'm not getting into that right now.

Anything else in regards to this report, I'm not touching. The person found guilty in the report still has the ability to put up an appeal and I'm not gonna be the one to say something stupid that gives them ammunition for that appeal.

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3 minutes ago, Rolle said:

Emoting unconsciousness and refusing to wake up is replacing an existing, working game mechanic with your own dramatic version of it. Regular IC efforts of fixing the condition won't work, since you're not actually unconscious, so any bandages or blood bags applied will not do anything unless the person actually decides to wake up. If used incorrectly, it could result in situations where for example I "faint" at the sight of scary bandits and they can't do jack shit to me. I don't even have to RP anything, just go prone, throw a few emotes about how incapacitated I am and avoid getting robbed, tortured or having to engage in any hostile RP. It's text book avoiding RP.

Permascar is not implemented in game as game mechanic. Therefore we add it ourselves through RP and that's fine, you can then use the imaginary bandages or whatever to get it to heal.

So my opinion is that if there's is an existing game mechanic for something - we should stick to that and not come up with our own versions of it. When it comes to things that are not in game, then it's ok to use imagination and creativity and use make believe for whatever is needed.

Person who has "fainted" can be brought back by causing pain (slap, pinching) or sniffing salts I do beleave... so it is not the same as losing loads of blood.

Also if person can not go uncon by losing blood then I can just "shoot" by emoting a clip into him without him unconing? cmon wth is this...

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4 minutes ago, Rolle said:

So my opinion is that if there's is an existing game mechanic for something - we should stick to that and not come up with our own versions of it. When it comes to things that are not in game, then it's ok to use imagination and creativity and use make believe for whatever is needed.

The thing is: Yes there is a game mechanic for that but the risk of accidently killing someone when you torture or shoot someone in a RP situation is high. Which is why people emote stuff instead and they are recommended to do so.

We can't tell people to emote those kind of stuff and then on the other hand tell them, that they are not allowed to emote falling unconscious. The game mechanic can't come into effect, when you emote the torture or shooting someone. 

In my opinion we have to look on a case by case basis. Did he fell unconscious because it makes sense to do so or did the person do it, to avoid RP. 

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I think you should be able to emote those types of things instead of taking a risk of dying by going unconscious with the actual game mechanic. We have bandits using emotes to torture and beat up for that very same risk. Now do I think you should use this type of emoting to avoid RP, No.

Just like anything else if it's done poorly or used to avoid RP it should be reported and handled as Lyca said, because she's too quick for me, dealt with on a case by case. Did falling unconscious make sense in RP? Did they avoid any and all attempts to be brought back with emotes? How long did they play it out? Those things can easily determine if the person is avoiding RP or not. 

Edited by Clumsy

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1 minute ago, Shanoby said:

Person who has "fainted" can be brought back by causing pain (slap, pinching) or sniffing salts I do beleave... so it is not the same as losing loads of blood.

Also if person can not go uncon by losing blood then I can just "shoot" by emoting a clip into him without him unconing? cmon wth is this...

The person in the report refused to wake up despite being given medical care. So it's pretty similar I think.

I don't know what you mean with emoting a clip into someone.

 

1 minute ago, Lyca said:

The thing is: Yes there is a game mechanic for that but the risk of accidently killing someone when you torture or shoot someone in a RP situation is high. Which is why people emote stuff instead and they are recommended to do so.

We can't tell people to emote those kind of stuff and then on the other hand tell them, that they are not allowed to emote falling unconscious. The game mechanic can't come into effect, when you emote the torture or shooting someone. 

In my opinion we have to look on a case by case basis. Did he fell unconscious because it makes sense to do so or did the person do it, to avoid RP. 

Agreed, it totally is on case by case, we don't have a rule like that for game mechanics. But we do have one for avoiding RP and 6.3.2 about being active when victim of hostile RP. I don't think lying down on the floor and using emotes about how much you're bleeding is very active form of RP. In my personal opinion both rules were broken by that guy who went into "make believe" unconsciousness and refused to wake up and role play after getting fixed up and by his attitude it's plausible he did that to avoid hostile RP.

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Just now, Rolle said:

The person in the report refused to wake up despite being given medical care. So it's pretty similar I think.

I don't know what you mean with emoting a clip into someone.

 

Agreed, it totally is on case by case, we don't have a rule like that for game mechanics. But we do have one for avoiding RP and 6.3.2 about being active when victim of hostile RP. I don't think lying down on the floor and using emotes about how much you're bleeding is very active form of RP. In my personal opinion both rules were broken by that guy who went into "make believe" unconsciousness and refused to wake up and role play after getting fixed up and by his attitude it's plausible he did that to avoid hostile RP.

I meant emoting to shoot him by firing an entire clip of 60 rounds of bullets into him one by one... but he is then not allowed to go uncon from all those wounds... cos not game mechanic.

Sorry for my wording.

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Just now, Shanoby said:

I meant emoting to shoot him by firing an entire clip of 60 rounds of bullets into him one by one... but he is then not allowed to go uncon from all those wounds... cos not game mechanic.

Sorry for my wording.

You can't emote shooting someone, that doesn't make sense.

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1 minute ago, Rolle said:

You can't emote shooting someone, that doesn't make sense.

Sure you can in a RP situation, when you don't wanna kill that person, because you don't know if the person would die instantly and you want continue the RP afterwards.

Edited by Lyca

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Honestly there is different situations to roleplay becoming unconscious. In my personal opinion being unconscious for a long amount of time is silly. And it would get boring eventually on my end. Role playing unconscious can come from many things: panic attacks, being beaten half and losing blood. I hope this isn't going to be a thing, otherwise this will give more people (depending on the situation such as a panic attack faint) a reason to get someone banned. Panic attack? Water or bath salts. Beaten an inch of life? Water or bath salts. Like there are more ways depending on how it's role played out. 

One of the best things I had was RPing having a breakdown cause my character was meeting David Banks, and the people around her were like... "Is she okay?! Just carry her, we'll wake her up when we get there." And discussing what it may be, I woke up when we got there. 

As well as emoting shooting someone, I think a lot of us emote that because if the person gets one shotted, then it ruins the roleplay or "Invalid execution".

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5 minutes ago, Rolle said:

You can't emote shooting someone, that doesn't make sense.

So emote shooting is different from emote beating someone up with a melee weapon?

EDIT: Im pretty sure community as a whole started to do emote shooting and melee beating after reports of people dying to torture RP... and now you go 180 on it.... Im confused...

Edited by Shanoby

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1 minute ago, Shanoby said:

So emote shooting is different from emote beating with a melee weapon?

It's not, that's what I've been talking about from the start. It's make believe emotes replacing a perfectly good game mechanic that we already have. We are playing a game, not a text chat room. There should be no circumstances where emotes should be chosen over an actual action that the game already implements. The last thing I want DayZRP to become is a bunch of characters standing still, looking at each other and typing in chat about shooting or beating each other up.

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2 minutes ago, Rolle said:

It's not, that's what I've been talking about from the start. It's make believe emotes replacing a perfectly good game mechanic that we already have. We are playing a game, not a text chat room. There should be no circumstances where emotes should be chosen over an actual action that the game already implements. The last thing I want DayZRP to become is a bunch of characters standing still, looking at each other and typing in chat about shooting or beating each other up.

I mean, Im sorry, but you must be out of touch hard...

Have you seen the torture RP videos/situations... you do realize most of the community is RP-ing like that?

Im so confused right now... Im lost for words...

My world is upside down, I do not even know what is wrong or right thing to do... and thats no good... not what so ever.

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