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Tony

Hostility on Hostile

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Can I get a transcript /tldr. Listening to things is hard :(

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Cannot give anymore beanz, but that is a very well constructed argument to the new rules.

+1

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One thing I will say about the hostile RP I've had since returning to this community, it's been awesome. The group I had the hostile interaction with was the Killers. They properly lured me out to somewhere I couldnt get help and did some pretty fantastic RP with me. They gave my character proper development in an interesting and new avenue I wouldnt have had before. When we had this looming threat of hostility falling upon us, the RP became so much more enriching. There was a goal aside from "loot and survive". 

Roleplay is story telling with dozens of people. You know what a good story has?

Conflict.

Hostile RP provides this conflict. No good story has ever just been "And then Jim went out and found a can of beans and went home." Even stories without central plots that are just about the characters wandering about have some conflict or danger. Even Alice in Wonderland had the Red Queen for fucks sake. 

I'm of the mind set let people RP whatever the fuck they want to RP as long as they follow the lore setting and rules. Who gives a shit if they dont have the most original group idea? As long as it's done proper, it can be good fun. 

We all know what this is about. I'm not stupid, let's be real, the damage has been done. We should just focus on making sure this shit doesn't happen again.

Edited by Lori

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3 minutes ago, UndeadRP said:

Can I get a transcript /tldr. Listening to things is hard :(

·        Hostility is essential

·        Without it player numbers decrease

·        Hostile stigma and why

·        Bad hostile

·        Pvp hostile

·        What is hostile

·        Good hostile groups

·        Where some went wrong

·        Pvp over RP

·        Rolle reconsider

·        Consent broachers

·        Wrap it up

 

 

Bullet points. I'd have to type it out.

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The noose seems to be tightening around roleplay groups that don't conform with a certain vision. As somebody who likes to think they're creative, and as an avid and skilled creator yourself Tony, I think we can both agree that that's a hideous thing to impose on creators; a vision to comply with or risk all your hard work being thrown out.

Also in reference to your topic at the 6ish minute mark, apparently you're allowed revenge scar people now, even though its an unwritten rule that's never been enforced to my knowledge. Of course I will have to consult the mighty archives to confirm such things, but at the very least I think the implementation of such a purist style rule is a step in the right direction.

These kind of results are what you get when out of touch, out of sync folks are allowed to govern what the rest of us do, we have our RP server, hop in and see what its actually like, then make your decisions.

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3 minutes ago, Elmo said:

The noose seems to be tightening around roleplay groups that don't conform with a certain vision. As somebody who likes to think they're creative, and as an avid and skilled creator yourself Tony, I think we can both agree that that's a hideous thing to impose on creators; a vision to comply with or risk all your hard work being thrown out.

Also in reference to your topic at the 6ish minute mark, apparently you're allowed revenge scar people now, even though its an unwritten rule that's never been enforced to my knowledge. Of course I will have to consult the mighty archives to confirm such things, but at the very least I think the implementation of such a purist style rule is a step in the right direction.

These kind of results are what you get when out of touch, out of sync folks are allowed to govern what the rest of us do, we have our RP server, hop in and see what its actually like, then make your decisions.

I'd beanz ya, but I am out. So yeah, you're right, I agree with what you said.  A lot of peoples RP got fucked recently, including my own over The Killer's disbandment. I was hunting them, we had plans... now it's tits up.

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2 hours ago, Lori said:

One thing I will say about the hostile RP I've had since returning to this community, it's been awesome. The group I had the hostile interaction with was the Killers. They properly lured me out to somewhere I couldnt get help and did some pretty fantastic RP with me. They gave my character proper development in an interesting and new avenue I wouldnt have had before.

We're not gone yet. I've heard talk about us just staying dynamic. But yeah i thought we were doing good but rolle shot us down. I think the problem with everybody hating hostile roleplayers is just they wanna keep their gear. Atleast that's what I was like before I did Hostile rp. I got so pissed all the time when i was robbed getting some just "Ok" rp and losing my stuff in return. Whenever I hold someone up now because of it i rarely take anything from them unless i need it desperately and i always try to give really good stuff back even when i don't take anything. I honestly think that's what people should start doing to try and ease the tension between hostile and non hostile roleplayers. That's just me. 

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53 minutes ago, Brett said:

We're not gone yet. I've heard talk about us just staying dynamic. But yeah i thought we were doing good but rolle shot us down. I think the problem with everybody hating hostile roleplayers is just they wanna keep their gear. Atleast that's what I was like before I did Hostile rp. I got so pissed all the time when i was robbed getting some just "Ok" rp and losing my stuff in return. Whenever I hold someone up now because of it i rarely take anything from them unless i need it desperately and i always try to give really good stuff back even when i don't take anything. I honestly think that's what people should start doing to try and ease the tension between hostile and non hostile roleplayers. That's just me. 

Yes, some of us are going to be starting a dynamic. We won't call ourselves the Killers because the group was archived, and but the general idea of hunting people will be the same. Of course with the new rules added, there will be much more lead up to that point in which we initiate, which will be better for everyone's experience. I've never taken anybody's gear in the hostile RP I provide, and if I ever do it will be in reason. We aren't looking to get geared from the RP we do, it's just for good plot development and enjoyment out of all participants. I have done my research for my character and why he does the things he does, but that won't be the only thing that causes me to initiate now. Like I said before, more development up to that point.

I've also never been involved with any of the reports pertaining to the official group, so none of you have to be worrying about any of that. Nothing but quality from myself and anybody who will be joining me in the dynamic. Hope to see new victims soon, haha. 

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21 minutes ago, Mr. Blue said:

 Hope to see new victims soon, haha. 

Me too. I think I'm going to make a new character for our dynamic. I'm sort of in a writers block when it comes to Hush. I didn't do much research with him and I don't know how to make him have a real good RP reason to do what we do. But yeah Asher is one of my favorite characters ive seen on dayzrp. You really did a good job. Just wish every hostile rper could do that lmao.

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1 minute ago, Brett said:

Me too. I think I'm going to make a new character for our dynamic. I'm sort of in a writers block when it comes to Hush. I didn't do much research with him and I don't know how to make him have a real good RP reason to do what we do. But yeah Asher is one of my favorite characters ive seen on dayzrp. You really did a good job. Just wish every hostile rper could do that lmao.

Hey thanks man, if you ever want help doing research for your new character just let me know.

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1 minute ago, Mr. Blue said:

Hey thanks man, if you ever want help doing research for your new character just let me know.

for sure

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@Tony - My group might have been shot down but that doesn't mean I am intent on leaving you or anyone else without conflict. And yes I wish that people could look past my group and just see our amazing RP or the purpose that we were trying to create for everyone but the sad truth is that many already have pre-formed bias towards any sort of hostile RP. It's a shame since I have always been under the impression that good hostile RP is the best kind of RP. Here's hoping the demise of The Killers can be but a stepping stone and not a gravestone for the future development of this communities rules and expectations moving forward.

P.S: Your voice is soothing to listen to, talk about some ASMR shit

Edited by Refacture

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I don't think hostile RP is getting killed / punished, I think it's just changing. It's a lot different than it was in mod days and it will continue to change, and if there's an overly negative community response to the new rules then those changes will be revisited. No matter which side of the debate you're on you can agree that shit changes and it always will because change is necessary to try and see improvement, even if you don't agree with the changes

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43 minutes ago, Whitename said:

I don't think hostile RP is getting killed / punished, I think it's just changing. It's a lot different than it was in mod days and it will continue to change, and if there's an overly negative community response to the new rules then those changes will be revisited. No matter which side of the debate you're on you can agree that shit changes and it always will because change is necessary to try and see improvement, even if you don't agree with the changes

@Whitename - Friggin exactly!

Edited by Refacture

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Can you link me to that carebearRP? 

I have a carebear cousin massacre that needs to be carried out. 

 

In all seriousness, you are right. It's not hostile rp that is the problem. It's how people treat it, that's the major issue. Hell, I may even do a hostile character. Next death I am changing characters and gonna do dis

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Although I'm fairly new to this community, and lack somewhat practical experience regarding specific DayZ roleplay elements, I'm gonna drop a few sentences in.

 

On any roleplay platform, written, text or played; there MUST be a be an encouraging factor which pushes character and lore development, and zombies aren't enough. In HL2RP, a written based Garry's Mod roleplay platform where I have the majority of my roleplay and community experience, the pushing force are the Metro Police, an oppressive group who force this atmosphere of oppression and fear onto the regular players; without said faction HL2RP becomes carebear roleplay. Playing a hostile character is a responsibility, it is their duty to be a part of this greater pushing 'faction' in order to emphasise the horror and survival of this roleplay platform. From my experience so far, from viewing the forums and playing a little in-game - people being restricted from making hostile groups and characters isn't the major problem. It's the entire mindset around death and basic character development. It usually comes under one broad sentence:

People are too afraid to lose their characters.

Now, yes you should value your character at all times, but from what I've seen on character biographies, youtube videos and word of mouth there is a lot of 'character protectionism', or 'hugbox' roleplay. We have things that would normally be impossible in the stock Zombie-Apocalypse universes with people's characters surviving beyond realistic expectations and their development being so extended to the point that it begins to develop in an unrealistic way that ruins the general immersion of the server.

People treat hostile RP with distaste due to the fact that they fear it will eventually lead to their character and it's development, hurting all that they have worked for. This adds to the general stigma that now surrounds hostile RP.

 

There is little that the staff team can do to fix this issue, it's been tried on previous communities that I've been apart of - but it only causes dissent among the community. One thing that we can all do as a community is to instead focus on the people who are defending their character so religiously to the point where they are shutting down hostile roleplay even from an OOC perspective. Or to question the people who's characters have been alive to the point where it's developing beyond realistic expectations and are expanding to do things that would be immersion and role breaking for a survivor in a backwater Eastern European country.

 

first post wow

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3 minutes ago, Stannis said:

Although I'm fairly new to this community, and lack somewhat practical experience regarding specific DayZ roleplay elements, I'm gonna drop a few sentences in.

 

On any roleplay platform, written, text or played; there MUST be a be an encouraging factor which pushes character and lore development, and zombies aren't enough. In HL2RP, a written based Garry's Mod roleplay platform where I have the majority of my roleplay and community experience, the pushing force are the Metro Police, an oppressive group who force this atmosphere of oppression and fear onto the regular players; without said faction HL2RP becomes carebear roleplay. Playing a hostile character is a responsibility, it is their duty to be a part of this greater pushing 'faction' in order to emphasise the horror and survival of this roleplay platform. From my experience so far, from viewing the forums and playing a little in-game - people being restricted from making hostile groups and characters isn't the major problem. It's the entire mindset around death and basic character development. It usually comes under one broad sentence:

People are too afraid to lose their characters.

Now, yes you should value your character at all times, but from what I've seen on character biographies, youtube videos and word of mouth there is a lot of 'character protectionism', or 'hugbox' roleplay. We have things that would normally be impossible in the stock Zombie-Apocalypse universes with people's characters surviving beyond realistic expectations and their development being so extended to the point that it begins to develop in an unrealistic way that ruins the general immersion of the server.

People treat hostile RP with distaste due to the fact that they fear it will eventually lead to their character and it's development, hurting all that they have worked for. This adds to the general stigma that now surrounds hostile RP.

 

There is little that the staff team can do to fix this issue, it's been tried on previous communities that I've been apart of - but it only causes dissent among the community. One thing that we can all do as a community is to instead focus on the people who are defending their character so religiously to the point where they are shutting down hostile roleplay even from an OOC perspective. Or to question the people who's characters have been alive to the point where it's developing beyond realistic expectations and are expanding to do things that would be immersion and role breaking for a survivor in a backwater Eastern European country.

 

first post wow

For your first post... if I could just give you all my beanz I would.

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Spoiler

Like @Stannis, I lack much practical experience in DayZRP, infact - I'm not even whitelisted right now! But I know what I've seen, whether it be through video or through the forums, and I know what I've heard. But I'm not new to roleplay and I've seen situations like this before.

 
 

Back on topic. I've gotta hand it to you man, you've presented this argument very well. Without trying to sound like a broken record, I'm going to make a few points on hostile roleplay and its role in character development.

We all have the same goal as roleplayers - we want to transport ourselves a world unlike or own, becoming apart of a story. A variable. Unique and interesting characters are an extremely important part of making that happen. This goal, however, is often adulterated by two primary parties. Although both parties most likely feel like if anything they're adding to the community, atmosphere and roleplay storyline in general when you study their actions and the consequences of their actions of as a whole, you'll realise why.

Idealized characters. These people are your 'Mary Sue' or 'Gary Stew' character. Usually, this kind of character comes from humble beginnings, are a hero type, manage to survive every hostile engagement with a scar or some kind of mark and usually have a small mental defect which is never really explored or extremely exaggerated. Sometimes, this is just the player playing themselves, which isn't always a bad thing - but when it's just 'you in a zombie apocalypse', things get a little detrimental. They don't want to lose this character - "oh, they're so developed!" "Realistically, they would've survived that shot!" "Oh it was because of *accusation or ad hominem*". Anything hostile happens to them, bam - straight to the gulag with you! They're too scared to lose their character.

Stereotypical bad-guys. Villians are so important to create an interesting and unique story and without them, the story (in the server's case, timeline) falls flat. It's important to note that being stereotypical is not the same as being consistent. Your characters should behave in ways that are consistent with their backstory and how they've been developed over time, but it's just not the same thing as being stereotypical. Everyone's seen the psychopath that 'likes to collect testicles' as @Tony has put it. Everyone's seen the Adidas tracksuit wearing, PVPer Russian character before. You don't want people going - "oh so his character is just like such-and-such's?" If you're going for something that might be seen as stereotypical, switch it up! If you're a psychopath, have a softer side for example. Hell, even make it so you're seeking help. Anything to change it up. When people follow these toxic stereotypes, whether it be for PVP, torture roleplay or just plain ignorance, it makes hostile roleplay as a whole look unappealing and bland. It makes hostile roleplay look like its detrimental to the server's health.

Let me finish with a statement:

Attention and room needs to be given to the villain characters - for, without them, the story would not exist.

Edited by Xavier

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I'm confused.

I wholeheartedly agree with your points about hostility, conflict, and 3-dimensional villainous characters who go beyond "I am evil therefore I am" cookie cutter concepts, but at the same time there's apparently this underlying lamentation of how The Killers were archived?

I never encountered The Killers, but it was my impression from their own videos that they were just that; cookie cutter villains for villainy's sake who laughed like school girls while cutting pieces off of their prisoners with no other justification than the fact that their characters were "psychopaths". A fact that made me utterly disinterested in roleplaying with them anyway.

Or is your point simply that people need to both think about putting some more effort into being baddies and that the community (or rather its moderators) need to not be so dismissive when people make mistakes?

I'm not afraid of losing my character. I think the kind of setting DayZ takes place in encourages that you treat it with a certain respect as to how dangerous it is. But I am not interested in losing my character to an botched Infected attack, accidental food poisoning, or having him be severily fucked up, scalped, hanged, sliced up and so on because that'll somehow add to a villainous character's infamy and "spread fear across the land".

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I agree, Good Hostility is needed for a good RP server.

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I think another key problem with hostile characters is that the player has created their character with the intention of being 'bad guy' and the reasoning behind it all is 'im a big bad psychopath!!', this creates another shitty stigma among hostile roleplay as hostile roleplay then becomes branded as 'edgy' or poorly done. Although somewhat impossible to quality control from an administrative standpoint, instead of punishing hostile players/characters as a whole, instead restrict those who haven done their research poorly and or have yet developed enough to know what it's like to roleplay a genuine hostile character.

Psychotic people/Sociopaths are very difficult to play, you need to understand how peoples brains actually react when suffering from neurological disorders and how that would effect the actions of character - and to be fair, giggling and cutting peoples 'bits off' as an attempt to express this is rather poor. If you're going to play a psychotic character and the first reference that comes to mind on how to act is the Joker or Jigsaw from Saw, you're doing it wrong.

If you have hostile characters that have the intentions of other characters development in mind over their own, you have a fantastic pushing force for character development, but if you have neutral characters - trying to survive whether it means to act hostile or not, character development flourishes. A character trying to survive acts hostile by robbing a fellow survivor, taking his gear and leaving him tied up or killing him depending on the situation. A character built on the stigma of 'being epic badguy' is poor form, encourages 'edgy' unrealistic roleplay(cutting people up???) and only leads to the entire image of hostile roleplayers being dumped by a group and or individual who seeks out killing/mutilating other characters. 

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All of this ❤️

IMG_4114.thumb.JPG.137d2bc4b466d62ecf81190c44691585.JPG

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I agree with everything @Tony said. @Stannis you have very good points and what you've written. I also completely agree with what you wrote right before my response.

most people think playing a bad guy means turn into jigsaw, the joker, or some thing along that line. Mostly anyone who is playing a personality issue or mental illness, doesn't actually have the slightest idea as to what they're actually doing.

this includes things like PTSD. A lot of people think like film going into a flashback means that you believe everything you see is what happened then. In a lot of cases for people that isn't what happens. When I had flashbacks, I knew I was experiencing memories, but it was like I couldn't get any of my attention away from them. That and it triggered panic attacks. I knew who the people were around me etc.

I also wrote a very lengthy article, or more did a ton of research and put it together for others to read, in the guides. While a lot of people bitch that it's way too long, mental illness is something incredibly intricate. There is nothing simple about it. While annoying to some, I have actually received extremely good feedback privately on it, including from someone that actually had one of said disorders that was talked about.

The issue that I have is too many people rely on film tropes instead of actual information.

Hostility and tension are important to all stories. I agree with Tony in the fact that I think the problem here is that the majority of people have gotten hostile roleplay confused with PVP. Too much on the acts of extreme violence in testicle collections without any real reasoning or consequences.

it's a very fine line, but I think Tony did a great job of actually explaining it.

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33 minutes ago, RogueSolace said:

 

I'd beanz ya to show agreement, but I am out. Instead I'll just say I have read your guides and appreciated them, however your failure.... is expecting people to read and not skim xD I gave up on that ages ago.

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