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Cowmoo

Persistence Wipe Expectations?

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Before I get started I want to ask this question:

It appears there was a wipe back in Dec. 2017/Jan. 2018 (possibly Feb. 2018 as well) --- Is there some sort of announcement or official date each month we should expect it to be wiped so we can prepare ourselves? I am guessing it will be wiped on March 1st, 2018?

Also want to add, this isn't an attempt to start a "rant" thread; just something I was thinking of, and wanted to post about, because it bothers me there's community persistance-wipes now.

 

I was reading this thread from a couple months ago... 

 Am I the only one who thinks monthly wipes seems a bit too frequent? I find it odd--- currently, or in the future that I may want to start a trading outpost or a group settlement, and within 30 days (or less) of starting it, I will have to worry about having to start all over again due to a community-wide persistance wipe (on-top of dealing with griefing [vehicle destroying/tent despawning]), thus making these types of roleplay groups difficult to maintain. Maybe I am over-thinking it, but I feel like when base-building and mods are implemented during beta, it won't be worth the effort to continue playing anymore.

Another thing that bothers me about the persistance wipes; is if I want to have different characters, --- Which most likely will be wearing different loadouts, etc --- I will want to be able to store their specific items in a barrel (or other form of storage) until that character is actively used again. For example---I have a couple barrels, one barrel is for my doctor character who has medical equipment, and particular clothing items (that may be difficult to find regularly); and the other barrel would contain my other character that is a Kentuckian Southern who is a patriotic cowboy gun-toting nutjob.

My point is; why do we need to have frequent wipes? Each patch update within itself is mandatory wiped by the developers... Now; I read some of the Para's concerns about the spawn-rate of certain items, etc. --- Barrels are the only thing that is limited on the server before they stop spawning. --- Guns, military gear, etc... Items in general, what's wrong with the current loot -system that makes them more difficult to find? I don't know, it's just a thought to get people thinking... I just found out about these persistence wipes, and when all my work and effort to create a personal base, or to start a settlement which requires the time of gathering materials and vehicles---why would I want to do this every month? I feel if people are really concerned with the difficulty of finding new equipment that is hoarded somewhere--- maybe wipes every 2-3 months, would be compromising to have everyone happy --- I noticed a majority voted once a monthy, but the other 50-60% wanted either no wipes or a longer wipe period (2 months or more)...

Edited by Camokid95

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Yeah, I think the reason so many people voted for the wipes is to get more loot from military camps but the only items I feel are affected by wipes are the chances of finding a car and barrels the rest of the items are pretty much not affected.

 

Personally I think what keeps RP hubs such as Severograd so active is that there are community tents that people can go to and gear up and take what they need and leave what they can for others. Persistence wipes just makes it a pain in the ass to get resorted/restocked. Also many people rely on stashing their loot on barrels in case of a bug death or any other need to get back essential gear, a great example is the even in Lopatino King of the Castle where people were invited to a mele fight between each other not many turned up most of the people that were in the even were taken there by me in a bus, it had around 12 spectators and 3 participants it just shows how much people value gear over fun/risk so these wipes disrupt the peoples economy and any sort of trader would is screwed, all the trading that they have done to gets thrown in the wind by a wipe. 

 

Right now I with all the major DayZ updates coming our around 3-6 months apart I feel like a wipe on patch update is the way to go as it makes sense that all the items need to be wiped during a major update and they are far enough apar that people who maybe can only play on the weekends don't feel like all their efforts have gone to waste because after 4 weekends their stockpiled gear gets wiped.  

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People hord stuff away so its just good that there is a wipe. A so called trading post stands for less then 30 days it can stand longer but thats hard getting raided and stuff.

You dont need 7 tents or 3 barrels to "store" gear 

Before the wipe its a text i think under your profile in the rigt top corner or on the main page ive seen it dont remember the exact location doe

Edited by BorisRP

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1 minute ago, BorisRP said:

People hord stuff away so its just good that there is a wipe. A so called trading post stands for less then 30 days it can stand longer but thats hard getting raided and stuff.

Before the wipe its a text i think under your profile in the rigt top corner or on the main page ive seen it dont remember the exact location doe

I don't disagree with the idea of a wipe. I just feel like 30-day wipes seems a bit frequent. 2-3 months would be compromise-able, and I'd be happy with that... Though I liked it better when it was only during major patch updates (like every 6 months,etc).

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8 minutes ago, Camokid95 said:

- snip snip -

 

I like it. A persistence wipe every month keeps people from being giant hoarders and messing up the central loot economy, and it's not like losing your tents is the end of the world anyway. It's just gear. The more people in your group, the more items you can keep with you. Think of it as an involuntary spring cleaning. Take only what you need and can fit, leave what you can't. 

 

For example, there's a tent in Severograd that has 40+ bandages in it. I haven't seen many people walking around with a whole bunch of bandages lately -- when I see people bleeding, I usually see them using rags. Helps to keep the loot diverse and prevents packrats. 

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Personally, I'm on the fence with this one.

I don't give two rats ass on gear, seeing as it doesn't make IC sense for my character to always wear that same outfit: clothes get worn, weapons get busted. I do, however, see the other side of the coin: scavenging and maitaining a fully stocked base without excesively hoarding is part of my enjoyment of DayZ. It's a bit of a bummer when all my hard work is wiped clean, but meh, that's life. Although, I did notice a decrease in my game time when the end of the month is near, if there isn't the prospect of some RP. I have no drive to go out and scavenge, maybe meet new people because I know that the wipe will come, but that's just me and my two cents.

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4 hours ago, ryanbroman said:

I like it. A persistence wipe every month keeps people from being giant hoarders and messing up the central loot economy

I mean is this proven / confirmed though? imo its just hearsay / speculation

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Yes. As a DayZ dev has explained 0.53 the amount of loot spawning is dependant on the amount of loot that has already spawned. The game will restock on an item once the amount of the item falls below: (nominal value - minimum), where both of those values are set up by the devs (no clue what they are for each item, they’re tight lipped about that)

Here is the dev explain explanation 

 

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Not sure what the issue is, you need gear to RP? Hm..

Traders can quite easily go to any of the apartment buildings on the map and get like 9 tents instantly after a restart, persistence if anything helps them as rarer items are likely so spawn.

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Think about it this way. 

Each spawn location (house, shed, police station ect) has a set number of "rare" spawns, which could be anything from top tier guns (military/police areas) to bits of clothing depending on the spawn location you are in. Now, each time those "rare" items are removed, the loot economy regenerates the loot within the location as a percentage. Say once you take a gun out of a building, there is a reduced chance that type of gun will spawn back in. Then you have the variables of attachments on top of that, so even though there may be another skorpion in a police station, getting one with a suppressor or a mag has it's own variables. Now on top of all that you have the current amount of said items in world. This is limited, depending on the item's rarity, there may be more or less available per server. The rarity gets higher and higher as locations are constantly stripped of items (The coast is the worst for this) till items just simply don't spawn in that location at all, or it's one hat. (I travelled from Solnichi through Dolina and only found three hats the entire time) That is not only hindering people's ability to find "character centric" gear but even basic survival items (as these are the main items picked up on or near the coast) which is essentially putting players characters at risk. 

What persistence does, is keep the items out of the loot economy. Meaning the already rare items become even rarer, and even items such as food can become rarer as tents fill up with cans of food and morphines become more rare as medical tents load up on them. 

Now, while this community *should* be non-gear central, in truth your character in part is represented by the gear they have. Now am not saying everyone should max out their pockets and have all the best of the best items. But if your character is a sniper, then they are kinda going to need a sniper rifle of some sort, and a sporter just ain't gonna cut it. A medical RPer is going to need morphines, bandages, painkillers, antibiotics, charcoal tabs and the like, when those items become rarer and rarer (the longer persistence remains) then it will begin to effect peoples ability to create a character the way they want it. 

Right now (and I think, at this rate until beta) we have the christmas presents. So "rare" loot is easier to find, at least the mags/ammo for rarer guns is more readily available. But that doesn't help people when all the cans of food are stored away, all the FAL mags in the presents are worthless if all the FALs are hidden away in bases. 

Now. It would be fine if a base consisted of a personal storage for certain items, like OP said, for alternate characters. But I have seen bases of 7+ tents full of gear no where near a town or hotspot (aka just hoarders, not traders) Traders, in themselves, are good for the most part as they recycle the gear they have (though gear they don't need/never get traded should be let back into the loot economy to boost spawn rates all round) But they still hoard many items and do effect the loot economy, but, like I said, they recycle that loot so it's not as bad. 

Persistence wipes helps this problem greatly. Though by the end of the month, you usually start seeing the loot economy problems beginning to take hold, They are monthly, and on the same day each time, so you can get into game and collect all the items you DESPERATELY need before the wipe have them on your character (say fill a backpack and hold it) if you have friends, they can help you, if they don't have their own must have items to carry. Anything you lost, you will most likey find again, and so so much easier post wipe, that you would if we just left the persistence as is, it would be a bunch of tents with only a few people with any character centric gear the rest is hidden in the tents, leaving people who die or just start the game with sweet fuck all loot to get in the game. If you think about it, it can be hours, days even weeks between interactions with other players, without loot to pick up this game is a walking/running simulator. Which would make the current server population drop even more than it already has. So yeah keeping the persistence for the sake of a few "I want this and can't live without it and my 30 tents full of stuff I can never carry" types exacerbate the problems with the server. I mean at least if you don't find people you can find items in game, maybe help flesh out your character, give you a chance to try out different items ect. In my 102 hours (in current lore) I have spent about 10 of those with other people, 15 at most. If I hadn't found items and played about with rifles, scopes, ect I would have quit this server a long time ago (kinda did for a while, left to play ARK, Subnautica, The Forest ect) Simply cause there was nothing engaging to do in the server. The only thing was finding the odd WOW item and playing about with it for a while. 

You want an example of this, go onto any BAMBILAND server. You will not find a single gun higher than a sporter on the entire map (Yes I have spent over a month on a bambiland server with one character searching the map) Why? Cause they are all in tents.

TL:DR

Persistence doesn't just stop certain items from spawning in. Eventually it stops anything spawning at all in highly looted locations (Mostly the coast where people really need start up items) We need the wipes to keep people playing the game between player2player interactions, which is rare outside of hotspots. 

In conclusion....

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."

Mr. Spock

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1 hour ago, Mexi said:

Not sure what the issue is, you need gear to RP? Hm..

1

I see where you're coming from, and I agree, but it's not like having gear is totally irrelevant in the perspective of roleplay. If we all ran around as beach Bambi's, roleplay would be a whole lot different. Looks cooler and makes more sense to be killed by a group of dudes wearing the exact same all-black outfit than dudes in tracksuit jackets and canvas pants. 

That's not to say that GearRP on this server doesn't exist. There's this tent in Severograd with 40+ bandages, as I mentioned. There's the same amount of morphine, epi, saline, and stuff in that tent. That's an absurd amount, even for a doctor character. 

Keeping gear stored is important for pretty much any character, but there's definitely a point where you've gotta ask yourself if you're here to RP or if you're here so you can loot without fear of KOS.

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I think the major takeaway here regardless of your position is that this doesn't matter either way that much now, considering tents and barrels are frequently raided or disappear and have no means by which to secure to secure them other than careful placement. 

When .63 rolls around sometime after the Sun has destroyed our solar system it will matter more, because if you can secure stuff inside a base with locks then you make the prospect of wipes more pressing. Hopefully we can still have cool base raids that yield loot and yet not have empty settlements getting raided at times when the server is empty. Hoping we get some Epoch style features as long as crazy plywood skyscrapers are excluded.

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I kind of agree with the OP that a monthly wipe is a bit much but really I can see everyone else's point about the loot economy getting messed up. Maybe every 6-8 weeks would be better? I think we could find a better middle ground on this one.

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Persistence wipe happens on 1st every month. On that day there is a small red warning about it under the server time clock in top right corner of the website. There is no set time during the day when it happens, but it usually will be done in the morning server time, when I'm at work and there's only a handful of people playing. Monthly persistence wipes are good, they keep the loot in circulation and makes it easier for players to focus on RP and get less attached to the stuff you gathered when you know it will all be gone anyway in less than 4 weeks.

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3 minutes ago, mark3390 said:

I kind of agree with the OP that a monthly wipe is a bit much but really I can see everyone else's point about the loot economy getting messed up. Maybe every 6-8 weeks would be better? I think we could find a better middle ground on this one.

I believe it was set at a month for consistency. If you start going 6 weeks or 8 weeks, people will get confused as to what day the wipe will take place, thus people will lose more, if they didn't make it to their stash in time. Besides, like Major said, bases don't tend to stay undiscovered for long, tents get griefed (I saw about 5 tents go missing from Sevro in the space of a day) Barrels get taken, gear is lost either way. If your stash lasts the month untouched, congrats. Either that or it's full of worthless crap no one wants. 

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7 hours ago, ryanbroman said:

I see where you're coming from, and I agree, but it's not like having gear is totally irrelevant in the perspective of roleplay. If we all ran around as beach Bambi's, roleplay would be a whole lot different. Looks cooler and makes more sense to be killed by a group of dudes wearing the exact same all-black outfit than dudes in tracksuit jackets and canvas pants. 

That's not to say that GearRP on this server doesn't exist. There's this tent in Severograd with 40+ bandages, as I mentioned. There's the same amount of morphine, epi, saline, and stuff in that tent. That's an absurd amount, even for a doctor character. 

Keeping gear stored is important for pretty much any character, but there's definitely a point where you've gotta ask yourself if you're here to RP or if you're here so you can loot without fear of KOS.

Ah, so you're the person who keeps stealing my items, forcing me to have to restock every time I log back in... Yeah, I was tired of putting effort into being a doctor character who camped on the hospital because of people continuously raiding my shit --- apparently someone despawned all my tents & items on top of the hospital after days of gathering materials and tents to set up there... hours wasted away....

6 hours ago, Rolle said:

Persistence wipe happens on 1st every month. On that day there is a small red warning about it under the server time clock in top right corner of the website. There is no set time during the day when it happens, but it usually will be done in the morning server time, when I'm at work and there's only a handful of people playing. Monthly persistence wipes are good, they keep the loot in circulation and makes it easier for players to focus on RP and get less attached to the stuff you gathered when you know it will all be gone anyway in less than 4 weeks.

Okie dokie. Thanks. I couldn't get any official answers from anyone on that. Though in the future, when mods and settlement-building is finally implemented, you think the persistence wipes might be less frequent? Right now makes sense, but definitely would be frustrating when the time comes.

6 hours ago, mark3390 said:

I kind of agree with the OP that a monthly wipe is a bit much but really I can see everyone else's point about the loot economy getting messed up. Maybe every 6-8 weeks would be better? I think we could find a better middle ground on this one.

Yeah, I think, in the future (maybe not right now) it should be less frequent... because by then there will be proper base-building, modified servers, etc. more players creating settlements.

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Can’t quote on mobile sorry

 

But no, I haven’t stolen from your tents nor did I despawn your stuff. That’s AOGM. I’m just saying that’s a shitload of medical supplies when I checked it out. On second thought, I think I took 2-3 bandages? I forget. Was a while ago. I don’t like Severograd

And @Rolle changing the persistence wipes to something much less frequent when base building comes out would be great.  No sense making cool bases in .63 if they’re going to be gone in a month

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8 hours ago, ryanbroman said:

Can’t quote on mobile sorry

 

But no, I haven’t stolen from your tents nor did I despawn your stuff. That’s AOGM. I’m just saying that’s a shitload of medical supplies when I checked it out. On second thought, I think I took 2-3 bandages? I forget. Was a while ago. I don’t like Severograd

And @Rolle changing the persistence wipes to something much less frequent when base building comes out would be great.  No sense making cool bases in .63 if they’re going to be gone in a month

You think building is gonna be finished for .63? u r a qt.

I'm sure the persistence will be extended in areas such as that, when the time comes I'm sure Rolle will change the time between wipes.

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8 hours ago, ryanbroman said:

And @Rolle changing the persistence wipes to something much less frequent when base building comes out would be great.  No sense making cool bases in .63 if they’re going to be gone in a month

I believe when the wipes were instated that it was mentioned that the frequency of persistence wipes would be revisited once basebuilding is added.

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There's still plenty of time before we get base building in 2026.

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420 servers have some base building, maybe they should dev DayZ instead

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22 hours ago, Camokid95 said:

Okie dokie. Thanks. I couldn't get any official answers from anyone on that. Though in the future, when mods and settlement-building is finally implemented, you think the persistence wipes might be less frequent? Right now makes sense, but definitely would be frustrating when the time comes.

Yeah, I think, in the future (maybe not right now) it should be less frequent... because by then there will be proper base-building, modified servers, etc. more players creating settlements.

The devs have said they are changing the loot system completely, in the new engine. So this situation might not even be a thing when 0.63 comes out. Remember, this is a new engine, so most of the mechanics are going to be different. 

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I think the wipe should be least every 3 months because otherwise it'll be too soon and get annoying to most people. And getting your group members on when they are in different timezones are frustrating. Also if those are in holiday and have no access to laptop or computer. 

And there should be a base building soon too as well. Also warning from least week time when there's a wipe so can get prepared. 

But most people have tents for their group base where people can go and get stuff especially if the person is a medic doctor, they needed the medical stuff in the tent for helping their members. For example I got sick from zombie wounded me and I had to try and get better but we didn't had right stuff for me since the wipe happened and I did actually struggled. I also had the other sickness as well which got me very very very sick in the game. O.o

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Fare warning, this is a RANT

I completely disagree with a monthly wipe. I personally think that is ridiculous. I NEVER have trouble finding the gear I need or want, the only trouble I ever have is keeping people from taking the gear just because they want it. Its so annoying making a small camp of survivors just to have to do it again, and again, and again every month. We don't even have the time to Role Play because we are to busy finding everything we lost every month.

If people cannot find the items they need because other people are hoarding it... well then welcome to a post apocalyptic world where items don't just magically spawn out of thin air.

Now its one thing having a few things stolen from our tents, but its a completely different category when you need to make up some new reason every month as to why our homes, our food that we have grown and our medical supplies have magically disappeared.

Honestly, I didn't even know that this happened every month because its not announced. December we lost everything because it wasn't announced, January we lost a lot because half of our group didn't know there was going to be a wipe. Now today, the night before the wipe, I hear from someone who herd from another (and so on) that there is going to be another wipe.

I cannot even begin to tell you how annoying this is, Now I get to spend all night making calls and sending emails and messages trying to get people to sign on so we can try to save the most necessary of our food, medical gear and homes.

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Was there actually a wipe just now (within last day, roughly) or did some asshat (totally IC of course... probably) remove all tents (like, almost a dozen total) in the region I am in? Checked three different spots operated or owned by different people, all gone, as if vanished, which seems odd.

Just want to know what it was, because one thing is clearly OOC, the other IC. Until confirmed, I roll with "asshattery".

Edited by Combine

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